``The truth doesn't even matter anymore. This is not about truth. This is about perceptions, attitudes, dislikes and malicious intent..."
October 3, 2001 5:18 AM Subscribe
``The truth doesn't even matter anymore. This is not about truth. This is about perceptions, attitudes, dislikes and malicious intent..." Three firefighters were suspended following an incident where they removed an American flag from a truck for maintenance considerations. Later, during informal discussions in the station it came out that neither considered the flag to represent what they feel America is about. Only then were they suspended pending further investigation. Also, it wasn't official policy until after this incident that all firetrucks in the county must fly the flag.
Seems to me that the flag ceases to be a symbol of freedom when one is forced to carry it.
Haunting images of the Vietnam era and the flag decals that John Prine wrote so eloquently about. And what was the name of the country music "artist" who wrote the "Fighting Side of Me" song?
Not only must we take our country back from these troglodytes we must also reclaim the flag as a symbol of freedom. These are the same people who would have an amendment to the Constitution restricting your freedom to do with your flag as you see fit.
posted by nofundy at 6:05 AM on October 3, 2001
Not only must we take our country back from these troglodytes we must also reclaim the flag as a symbol of freedom. These are the same people who would have an amendment to the Constitution restricting your freedom to do with your flag as you see fit.
posted by nofundy at 6:05 AM on October 3, 2001
Unless this fire company was a volunteer one, I would imagine it was a municipal one funded by taxpayers. It would seem appropriate to put the municipal seal, etc on the side of the truck and the municipality should make the decision as to what goes on it's trucks, not the employees.
posted by revbrian at 6:26 AM on October 3, 2001
posted by revbrian at 6:26 AM on October 3, 2001
Damn straight - let's have those municipally branded firetrucks ASAP!
Sounds to me from the article as though that's not the issue anyway, though; these guys removed the flag for a brief maintenance period during which they put it on another truck. And presumably they've been saving people hither and yon for years while feeling that the American flag is a symbol of oppression for some black Americans.
posted by josh at 6:35 AM on October 3, 2001
Sounds to me from the article as though that's not the issue anyway, though; these guys removed the flag for a brief maintenance period during which they put it on another truck. And presumably they've been saving people hither and yon for years while feeling that the American flag is a symbol of oppression for some black Americans.
posted by josh at 6:35 AM on October 3, 2001
uh, revbrian, maybe you should read the linked article before commenting.
posted by boaz at 6:37 AM on October 3, 2001
posted by boaz at 6:37 AM on October 3, 2001
This is yet another one of many, many sad instances following Sept 11. This is how fascism works, but there is still time to cry out loud against it.
posted by acrobat at 6:50 AM on October 3, 2001
posted by acrobat at 6:50 AM on October 3, 2001
nofundy -- merle haggard wrote 'fightin' side of me.' frankly, merle's written as many good songs as johnny cash, but rarely gets the attention he deserves.
posted by aenemated at 6:56 AM on October 3, 2001
posted by aenemated at 6:56 AM on October 3, 2001
Another thread asked for suggestions to replace our national anthem. I nominate Merle Haggard's "Fightin' Side of Me" as the obvious choice. As I understand many of Merle's songs (Okee From Muskogee for example) were written with more than a little sarcasm. I'll fix y'er flat tire Merle!
posted by nofundy at 7:31 AM on October 3, 2001
posted by nofundy at 7:31 AM on October 3, 2001
[uh, revbrian, maybe you should read the linked article before commenting.]
Uh, maybe you're not in charge here. You can comment about anything you want, so can I.
posted by revbrian at 7:32 AM on October 3, 2001
Uh, maybe you're not in charge here. You can comment about anything you want, so can I.
posted by revbrian at 7:32 AM on October 3, 2001
Yeah. RevBrian has as much of a right to make an uninformed comment as any other moron who speaks out on a subject without reading the linked article first.
But seriously. MetaFilter is set up for people to comment on items found on the Web. Why bother even including links to articles for discussion if folks don't bother to read them?
I used to have a classmate in uni who would attend the book discussions we held but without reading the book. He would argue and argue about things he knew nothing about, including defending himself by saying he had "seen the movie." Sure he had a right to say whatever he wanted. Everyone has a right to open their mouth and say something ignorant. But the old saying goes (paraphrasing), "It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt."
posted by terrapin at 8:02 AM on October 3, 2001
But seriously. MetaFilter is set up for people to comment on items found on the Web. Why bother even including links to articles for discussion if folks don't bother to read them?
I used to have a classmate in uni who would attend the book discussions we held but without reading the book. He would argue and argue about things he knew nothing about, including defending himself by saying he had "seen the movie." Sure he had a right to say whatever he wanted. Everyone has a right to open their mouth and say something ignorant. But the old saying goes (paraphrasing), "It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt."
posted by terrapin at 8:02 AM on October 3, 2001
I'm pretty sure the Rev hosts his own public access cable show at 10:30pm. TV Guide
posted by rutgersgrad00 at 8:17 AM on October 3, 2001
posted by rutgersgrad00 at 8:17 AM on October 3, 2001
[I'm pretty sure the Rev hosts his own public access cable show ]
I don't think anybody would want to see that! BTW, I'm really surprised nobody posted the nonsense Pat Robertson was spewing last night. I can't find it on the net though.
[RevBrian has as much of a right to make an uninformed comment as any other moron who speaks out on a subject without reading the linked article first.]
And screw you too! Seriously though, In my comment I was referring to the part of the post that says "Seems to me that the flag ceases to be a symbol of freedom when one is forced to carry it." not the linked article.
My bad for two reasons. One - I should have quoted the part of the post I was referring to, second I should have made it a bit clearer what I meant.
Flame away you insolent little cretins.
posted by revbrian at 8:44 AM on October 3, 2001
I don't think anybody would want to see that! BTW, I'm really surprised nobody posted the nonsense Pat Robertson was spewing last night. I can't find it on the net though.
[RevBrian has as much of a right to make an uninformed comment as any other moron who speaks out on a subject without reading the linked article first.]
And screw you too! Seriously though, In my comment I was referring to the part of the post that says "Seems to me that the flag ceases to be a symbol of freedom when one is forced to carry it." not the linked article.
My bad for two reasons. One - I should have quoted the part of the post I was referring to, second I should have made it a bit clearer what I meant.
Flame away you insolent little cretins.
posted by revbrian at 8:44 AM on October 3, 2001
Jpoulos: Shut up, cabbagehead.
These guys have been royally screwed, even if it does turn out the story's false, which it most likely is. Stories absolving people never get around as well as the ones damning them. They're just not as interesting. The radio stations will make a quick retraction no one will hear, and that'll be it. Sad.
posted by Su at 8:46 AM on October 3, 2001
These guys have been royally screwed, even if it does turn out the story's false, which it most likely is. Stories absolving people never get around as well as the ones damning them. They're just not as interesting. The radio stations will make a quick retraction no one will hear, and that'll be it. Sad.
posted by Su at 8:46 AM on October 3, 2001
[WSVN-Fox 7 broke the story...]
But not in the sense they were supposed to, evidently.
posted by jdbanks at 9:48 AM on October 3, 2001
But not in the sense they were supposed to, evidently.
posted by jdbanks at 9:48 AM on October 3, 2001
An ironic and not to the pont of the thread aside: Merle Haggard--apart from ol' Willie, the premiere country/jazz vocal stylist of our time--was the stoner extraordinaire & he & the boys in the band, while higher than a kite factory's whole year's production, saw a You Are Entering Muskogee sign from their tour bus one night way back when. Someone started singing "We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee..." & the rest is history!
posted by y2karl at 9:56 AM on October 3, 2001
posted by y2karl at 9:56 AM on October 3, 2001
If you read the article you realize how disturbing this is. Three guys were basically fired for talking about their political views during lunch. Think about it.
Also, there are better (read: worse) posts here every day, if you want some place to post random crap. Sure, people are frustrated with some of the news-type posts here, but at least read the damn link before deciding to shit on it.
posted by mattpfeff at 10:19 AM on October 3, 2001
Also, there are better (read: worse) posts here every day, if you want some place to post random crap. Sure, people are frustrated with some of the news-type posts here, but at least read the damn link before deciding to shit on it.
posted by mattpfeff at 10:19 AM on October 3, 2001
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posted by aenemated at 5:32 AM on October 3, 2001