Small-Town Maiden Aunt Chic
June 14, 2013 10:51 AM Subscribe
Nice try, but there's way too little acid-washed denim on those hipsters.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:57 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:57 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I find this normalization of 80s "fashion" to be upsetting and unacceptable.
posted by elizardbits at 10:59 AM on June 14, 2013 [30 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 10:59 AM on June 14, 2013 [30 favorites]
moving the Overton window to accept denim overalls into daily life.
posted by The Whelk at 11:00 AM on June 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 11:00 AM on June 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
I find this normalization of 80s "fashion" to be upsetting and unacceptable.
Then you're going to hate the new iPhone.
posted by 2bucksplus at 11:01 AM on June 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
Then you're going to hate the new iPhone.
posted by 2bucksplus at 11:01 AM on June 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
I find this normalization of 80s "fashion" to be upsetting and unacceptable.
I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening?
Shoulderpads.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:02 AM on June 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening?
Shoulderpads.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:02 AM on June 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
o lord no
posted by echo target at 11:08 AM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by echo target at 11:08 AM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Someone posted this on Twitter but left out the "....from Roseanne." I didn't click because I thought, "What a surprise. Hipsters like dressing like Jackie O. SNORE."
I see now my error.
posted by Kitteh at 11:14 AM on June 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
I see now my error.
posted by Kitteh at 11:14 AM on June 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
Oh noes. Unfashionable lady from 80s sitcom wears red sweater and kids these days also wear red sweaters. You are not better than other people shitty.tumblr.blog, no matter how hard you look down on others.
posted by ishrinkmajeans at 11:16 AM on June 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by ishrinkmajeans at 11:16 AM on June 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
Looking back on it, all the costumes in Rosanne are pretty incredible.
posted by cell divide at 11:16 AM on June 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by cell divide at 11:16 AM on June 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
Ok, now someone do people dressing like Jackée from 227.
posted by drezdn at 11:17 AM on June 14, 2013 [16 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 11:17 AM on June 14, 2013 [16 favorites]
>I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening?
Shoulderpads.
Jesus, Slap*, toss an NSFW in there; I'm at a library event, and I don't want to be called out for disgraceful language.....
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:26 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Shoulderpads.
Jesus, Slap*, toss an NSFW in there; I'm at a library event, and I don't want to be called out for disgraceful language.....
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:26 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
As I said on Metachat:
O!M!G!
That was my jacket. I owned that jacket. Not only did I own that jacket, but I saved up for two months to buy that jacket - it was one of the single most expensive pieces of clothing I've ever owned (I think it cost, like, $80.) And I loved it so. I felt so indestructibly cool when I wore it. I got it in Charleston and then I wore it in Baltimore in art school and then I had it when I lived in the East Village in the 80s. At that point in my life I had a month or two where I spent every lunch hour taking the train down to Union Square, running over to PS 19 on 1st between 11th & 12th, picking up my daughter, running her down 9 blocks to the afterschool place on 2nd Street, hopping back onto the train at Houston and getting back to work next to Carnegie Hall, all in a little over an hour. And every day I did that I worried that someone was going to mug me for my fabulous jacket. Seriously. I worried about that.
Now as I look at that jacket I am unsure why. And I realize that I don't have any idea whatever happened to it. Ah the lost clothes of youth. Hee. I also had a giant T-shirt I got on 14th St.that said LEAVE ME ALONE in big pink, green and black letters. I wore that with black capri length leggings and that jacket and black pumps and let me tell you, I was pretty damn cool.
posted by mygothlaundry at 11:27 AM on June 14, 2013 [30 favorites]
O!M!G!
That was my jacket. I owned that jacket. Not only did I own that jacket, but I saved up for two months to buy that jacket - it was one of the single most expensive pieces of clothing I've ever owned (I think it cost, like, $80.) And I loved it so. I felt so indestructibly cool when I wore it. I got it in Charleston and then I wore it in Baltimore in art school and then I had it when I lived in the East Village in the 80s. At that point in my life I had a month or two where I spent every lunch hour taking the train down to Union Square, running over to PS 19 on 1st between 11th & 12th, picking up my daughter, running her down 9 blocks to the afterschool place on 2nd Street, hopping back onto the train at Houston and getting back to work next to Carnegie Hall, all in a little over an hour. And every day I did that I worried that someone was going to mug me for my fabulous jacket. Seriously. I worried about that.
Now as I look at that jacket I am unsure why. And I realize that I don't have any idea whatever happened to it. Ah the lost clothes of youth. Hee. I also had a giant T-shirt I got on 14th St.that said LEAVE ME ALONE in big pink, green and black letters. I wore that with black capri length leggings and that jacket and black pumps and let me tell you, I was pretty damn cool.
posted by mygothlaundry at 11:27 AM on June 14, 2013 [30 favorites]
It was probably seized by the suede-denim secret police.
posted by elizardbits at 11:28 AM on June 14, 2013 [32 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 11:28 AM on June 14, 2013 [32 favorites]
I do have some vague memory of snipping off one of the fringe pieces to make a Barbie belt. It may have gone into the costume box, never to return. We lived across from the back of the Theatre for the New City on 10th street and dumpster diving there meant we had the BEST costume box ever for years afterward.
posted by mygothlaundry at 11:32 AM on June 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by mygothlaundry at 11:32 AM on June 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
Okay but that Chicken & Egg shirt, what self-respecting Roseanne fan with disposable income wouldn't want to buy it?
posted by Mizu at 11:37 AM on June 14, 2013 [13 favorites]
posted by Mizu at 11:37 AM on June 14, 2013 [13 favorites]
I just want to add the whole anti-hipster thing is the new hippy bashing. In about 20 years theres going to be a whole lotta people who are going to regret not having the courage to wear cool clothes or participate in OWS and spent their youth making fun of things they didn't understand.
posted by ishrinkmajeans at 11:38 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by ishrinkmajeans at 11:38 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
There's some weird overlap between "hipster" and "working class" going on there. Of course, the two categories are probably not mutually exclusive.
posted by asnider at 11:39 AM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by asnider at 11:39 AM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
...We do not actually need a tumblr for every single last thing that exists in this world or any alternate world in any known or unknown dimensions.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:40 AM on June 14, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:40 AM on June 14, 2013 [7 favorites]
xingcat: "It just goes to show that Laurie Metcalf is a goddess who can wear fashions that others can't possibly pull off."
My partner misread the Tony nominations for best actress for a play, so he thought for a few seconds that Laurie Metcalf had been nominated for Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
This provided us for a lot of grist for the joke mill for a while. But now I can't stop really wanting it see that production for real. With her dressed as Jackie.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:41 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
My partner misread the Tony nominations for best actress for a play, so he thought for a few seconds that Laurie Metcalf had been nominated for Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
This provided us for a lot of grist for the joke mill for a while. But now I can't stop really wanting it see that production for real. With her dressed as Jackie.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:41 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
...We do not actually need a tumblr for every single last thing that exists in this world or any alternate world in any known or unknown dimensions.
Counterpoint: Tumblr is the internet's quarantine.
posted by 2bucksplus at 11:45 AM on June 14, 2013 [7 favorites]
Counterpoint: Tumblr is the internet's quarantine.
posted by 2bucksplus at 11:45 AM on June 14, 2013 [7 favorites]
The thing that fascinates me so much about this entire phenomenon is that Aunt Jackie has always been my personal barometer of frump.
If I'm trying on clothes, and I look in the mirror and think "This is something Jackie From Roseanne might wear", I don't buy it.
If I'm at home putting together an outfit -- and this especially pertains to like what shoes to wear with something or whether I should wear socks or tucked in vs. not tucked in -- and it looks a tinge Jackie, I go back to the drawing board.
I'm growing out bangs, and if my side-swept thing starts to droop or poke out in a Jackie sort of way, or my bobby-pins-and-ponytails-and-headbands situation reminds me of something Jackie would have come up with, I gnash my teeth in despair and contemplate drastic action.
posted by Sara C. at 11:48 AM on June 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
If I'm trying on clothes, and I look in the mirror and think "This is something Jackie From Roseanne might wear", I don't buy it.
If I'm at home putting together an outfit -- and this especially pertains to like what shoes to wear with something or whether I should wear socks or tucked in vs. not tucked in -- and it looks a tinge Jackie, I go back to the drawing board.
I'm growing out bangs, and if my side-swept thing starts to droop or poke out in a Jackie sort of way, or my bobby-pins-and-ponytails-and-headbands situation reminds me of something Jackie would have come up with, I gnash my teeth in despair and contemplate drastic action.
posted by Sara C. at 11:48 AM on June 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
I actually think looking at the different way these outfits read in different contexts and details is really really interesting.
For example. This is basically the same dress, but look at the detailing. Jackie's out-of-fashion-over-sprayed hair and big hoop earrings - totally 80s-90s working class fashion signifiers. The metallic accents along the neckline are haphazardly colored and sort of ..dangle there, like carpet fringe. And finally, that oversized, puffy moon and star belt that looks faintly home-made or borrowed from an doll's costume.
Despite the dress being nearly identical (down the star and moon motif) Jackie's comes off looking naive and a bit frumpy, a grown woman wearing a cheap prom outfit for a night out. Part of this is being informed by the character (we know Jackie is a working class character who is supposed to be unlucky in life and love and a bit dowdy) so we can read that into a picture of her in a sweater that is otherwise just a sweater anyone would wear (sweaters are awesome) but also all these little details and bits of styling that make characters read to an audience in different ways, so basically, a wardrobe dept that was on its toes.
posted by The Whelk at 11:51 AM on June 14, 2013 [10 favorites]
For example. This is basically the same dress, but look at the detailing. Jackie's out-of-fashion-over-sprayed hair and big hoop earrings - totally 80s-90s working class fashion signifiers. The metallic accents along the neckline are haphazardly colored and sort of ..dangle there, like carpet fringe. And finally, that oversized, puffy moon and star belt that looks faintly home-made or borrowed from an doll's costume.
Despite the dress being nearly identical (down the star and moon motif) Jackie's comes off looking naive and a bit frumpy, a grown woman wearing a cheap prom outfit for a night out. Part of this is being informed by the character (we know Jackie is a working class character who is supposed to be unlucky in life and love and a bit dowdy) so we can read that into a picture of her in a sweater that is otherwise just a sweater anyone would wear (sweaters are awesome) but also all these little details and bits of styling that make characters read to an audience in different ways, so basically, a wardrobe dept that was on its toes.
posted by The Whelk at 11:51 AM on June 14, 2013 [10 favorites]
No we don't need a tumblr for everything ever, but Roseanne was a great show that was uniquely of its time; that was highly influential in a lot of areas commonly not associated with the subject matter of the show. That we can now see that influence expressed in contemporary fashion - and it is fashion, it's definitely all deliberate - is an interesting way of looking at that influence. Jackie was a strange character, both sexual and maidenly, brusque and meek, and she represented a certain archetype that grabs a lot of people. I think the tumblr is fun, and is saying something about the changed meaning of those clothing choices within the context of time and the wearer - a man in a bulky patterned sweater is different than a woman in a similar one, a current young woman accessorizes a t-shirt with a native american man on it differently from Jackie and changes who we think she is and what we think she's trying to express. It's interesting!
posted by Mizu at 11:51 AM on June 14, 2013 [12 favorites]
posted by Mizu at 11:51 AM on June 14, 2013 [12 favorites]
There is also the thing Cat And Girl has mentioned, affecting working class looks has cultural cache' only when it's appropriating male looks.
posted by The Whelk at 11:53 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 11:53 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
This one has to be staged, right? That guy had to be consciously emulating that picture, it can't all just have happened by coincidence...
posted by ibmcginty at 11:53 AM on June 14, 2013
posted by ibmcginty at 11:53 AM on June 14, 2013
There's some weird overlap between "hipster" and "working class" going on there.
I think you're onto something there. I have some (possibly hipster-ish?) friends who are on the Dressing Like An Extra From Roseanne bandwagon, and there seems to be a lot of either actual lived working class/blue-collar/rust-belt experience or romanticization of same. It's very much a nostalgic or romantic thing and not at all the sort of sneering irony that accompanied the trucker cap moment of a decade ago.
posted by Sara C. at 11:54 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think you're onto something there. I have some (possibly hipster-ish?) friends who are on the Dressing Like An Extra From Roseanne bandwagon, and there seems to be a lot of either actual lived working class/blue-collar/rust-belt experience or romanticization of same. It's very much a nostalgic or romantic thing and not at all the sort of sneering irony that accompanied the trucker cap moment of a decade ago.
posted by Sara C. at 11:54 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
...We do not actually need a tumblr for every single last thing that exists in this world or any alternate world in any known or unknown dimensions.
We may not need them, but by god we're obviously gonna get them.
posted by aught at 11:54 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
We may not need them, but by god we're obviously gonna get them.
posted by aught at 11:54 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately the only realization I have come to after looking at that is that I resemble Roseanne Barr more than a wee bit at the moment.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 11:55 AM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 11:55 AM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Oh noes. Unfashionable lady from 80s sitcom wears red sweater and kids these days also wear red sweaters
Was I the only 12 year old boy who thought she was totally hot?
posted by Hoopo at 11:57 AM on June 14, 2013 [8 favorites]
Was I the only 12 year old boy who thought she was totally hot?
posted by Hoopo at 11:57 AM on June 14, 2013 [8 favorites]
Chicken and egg shirt.
(I had a long paragraph here about Roseanne and how it ran parallel to my life, but I don't have the patience today to make it understandable.)
posted by SuzySmith at 11:59 AM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
(I had a long paragraph here about Roseanne and how it ran parallel to my life, but I don't have the patience today to make it understandable.)
posted by SuzySmith at 11:59 AM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's very much a nostalgic or romantic thing and not at all the sort of sneering irony that accompanied the trucker cap moment of a decade ago.
Well there's the high-end up, opening fancy restaurants in old working class haunts like the Off Track Betting office but I always thought it as "nostalgia for when jobs actually existed." As opposed to now, when some popular entertainment consists of people watching people who actually have jobs* perform said jobs.
*that they're not totally alienated from
posted by The Whelk at 12:00 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Well there's the high-end up, opening fancy restaurants in old working class haunts like the Off Track Betting office but I always thought it as "nostalgia for when jobs actually existed." As opposed to now, when some popular entertainment consists of people watching people who actually have jobs* perform said jobs.
*that they're not totally alienated from
posted by The Whelk at 12:00 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
It's very much a nostalgic or romantic thing and not at all the sort of sneering irony that accompanied the trucker cap moment of a decade ago.
Whoa there nelly! I've had my fair share of trucker hats and there was no sneering involved in my acquisition of them. I happened to have grown up in the era of Convoy, Smokie and the Bandit, and CB radio lingo and I too harkened back to a simpler time in my own life, much like these folks are doing now.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:01 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Whoa there nelly! I've had my fair share of trucker hats and there was no sneering involved in my acquisition of them. I happened to have grown up in the era of Convoy, Smokie and the Bandit, and CB radio lingo and I too harkened back to a simpler time in my own life, much like these folks are doing now.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:01 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
This is amaaaaazing, thanks The Whelk.
I just want to add the whole anti-hipster thing is the new hippy bashing. In about 20 years theres going to be a whole lotta people who are going to regret not having the courage to wear cool clothes or participate in OWS and spent their youth making fun of things they didn't understand.
Can I make fun of it if I do understand it? I've seen the best minds of my generation, howling hysterical naked, on their knees after getting kicked out of Pete's Candy Store for throwing a PBR at a Vice intern...
posted by Diablevert at 12:04 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
I just want to add the whole anti-hipster thing is the new hippy bashing. In about 20 years theres going to be a whole lotta people who are going to regret not having the courage to wear cool clothes or participate in OWS and spent their youth making fun of things they didn't understand.
Can I make fun of it if I do understand it? I've seen the best minds of my generation, howling hysterical naked, on their knees after getting kicked out of Pete's Candy Store for throwing a PBR at a Vice intern...
posted by Diablevert at 12:04 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
My 12 year old would find all of these to be totally fabulous (including that fringed denim jacket!)
posted by vespabelle at 12:05 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by vespabelle at 12:05 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
throwing a PBR at a Vice intern
I maintain that Vice is excellent.
posted by Hoopo at 12:09 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I maintain that Vice is excellent.
posted by Hoopo at 12:09 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
moving the Overton window to accept denim overalls into daily life.
I would follow this trend SO HARD.
FINALLY ENOUGH POCKETS!
posted by DU at 12:15 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would follow this trend SO HARD.
FINALLY ENOUGH POCKETS!
posted by DU at 12:15 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hipsters are the new antiestablishment. Making fun of them is to stand with the old guard yuppies and sellouts.
posted by ishrinkmajeans at 12:16 PM on June 14, 2013
posted by ishrinkmajeans at 12:16 PM on June 14, 2013
Is the Elaine Benes look already passe?
Was it ever otherwise???
posted by Kitteh at 12:16 PM on June 14, 2013
Was it ever otherwise???
posted by Kitteh at 12:16 PM on June 14, 2013
I maintain that Vice is excellent.
They hired Cat Marnell when she was in the middle of a pretty bad downward spiral, that makes them suspect to me.
posted by SuzySmith at 12:22 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
i just had horrendous flashbacks of wearing a long fitted two-tone suit jacket as a dress to rachel kaplan's bat mitzvah
my hair was enormous
oh the humanity
posted by elizardbits at 12:24 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
my hair was enormous
oh the humanity
posted by elizardbits at 12:24 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Who gives a fuck about hipsters? This should be a Laurie Metcalf appreciation thread.
Bring on the clips!
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:25 PM on June 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
Bring on the clips!
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:25 PM on June 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
"80s fashion"? Roseanne ran from 1988 to 1997. This is much more early-90s fashion. If you haven't noticed, the early 90s were twenty years ago, and are therefore cool again. E.g.
posted by stopgap at 12:26 PM on June 14, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by stopgap at 12:26 PM on June 14, 2013 [7 favorites]
I just want to add the whole anti-hipster thing is the new hippy bashing. In about 20 years theres going to be a whole lotta people who are going to regret not having the courage to wear cool clothes or participate in OWS and spent their youth making fun of things they didn't understand.
Nah, I'm spending my middle-age making fun of things I understand all too well.
It's just jealously, though. (Mostly of their skin, which is something I never expected. Good skin is wasted on the young.)
posted by Leon at 12:27 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Nah, I'm spending my middle-age making fun of things I understand all too well.
It's just jealously, though. (Mostly of their skin, which is something I never expected. Good skin is wasted on the young.)
posted by Leon at 12:27 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Hipsters are the new antiestablishment. Making fun of them is to stand with the old guard yuppies and sellouts.
From the lobby of my $4,000 a month condo across from McCarren park? Hipsters need yuppies; nobody else is paying $16 bucks a bottle for their backyard honey/handcrafted soap/coriander-flavoured mead. Inasmuch is hipsterism has an ethos it is to convince the bourgeois that servitude, or at least the service industry, is an acceptable career path for their children. One crafter/maker/grower at a time. That's how the sausage gets made in the new economy. Literally.
posted by Diablevert at 12:27 PM on June 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
From the lobby of my $4,000 a month condo across from McCarren park? Hipsters need yuppies; nobody else is paying $16 bucks a bottle for their backyard honey/handcrafted soap/coriander-flavoured mead. Inasmuch is hipsterism has an ethos it is to convince the bourgeois that servitude, or at least the service industry, is an acceptable career path for their children. One crafter/maker/grower at a time. That's how the sausage gets made in the new economy. Literally.
posted by Diablevert at 12:27 PM on June 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
That's how the sausage gets made in the new economy.
Wait, is this sausage made from ground up backyard farmer hipsters?
asking for a friend
posted by elizardbits at 12:29 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Wait, is this sausage made from ground up backyard farmer hipsters?
asking for a friend
posted by elizardbits at 12:29 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Nothing like another needless discussion of "hipsters".
posted by josher71 at 12:31 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by josher71 at 12:31 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
How do you craft backyard honey mead from a Brooklyn apartment? No, I'm not buying it, the makers are Gen X and Y that "rejected" yuppiedom. You know, the people they make fun of on Portlandia.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:31 PM on June 14, 2013
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:31 PM on June 14, 2013
Wait, is this sausage made from ground up backyard farmer hipsters?
Well, they're locally sourced, so sometimes it's not "backyard farm" so much as "empty lot," but sure. We practice single steam recycling, and any glass shards or American Spirit stubs are filtered out before they reach the consumer.
posted by Diablevert at 12:33 PM on June 14, 2013
Well, they're locally sourced, so sometimes it's not "backyard farm" so much as "empty lot," but sure. We practice single steam recycling, and any glass shards or American Spirit stubs are filtered out before they reach the consumer.
posted by Diablevert at 12:33 PM on June 14, 2013
elizardbits: Wait, is this sausage made from ground up backyard farmer hipsters?
The only way to be sure is to check whether the sausage skin is covered in tattoos.
posted by Len at 12:33 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
The only way to be sure is to check whether the sausage skin is covered in tattoos.
posted by Len at 12:33 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
"80s fashion"? Roseanne ran from 1988 to 1997. This is much more early-90s fashion. If you haven't noticed, the early 90s were twenty years ago, and are therefore cool again. E.g.
Someone in the House of Cards thread said that the early '90s were in the uncanny valley of their own memory: Neither far enough away to be historical nor close enough to recognize as their own.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:34 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Someone in the House of Cards thread said that the early '90s were in the uncanny valley of their own memory: Neither far enough away to be historical nor close enough to recognize as their own.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:34 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Nothing like another needless discussion of "hipsters".
Nah, there was one missing-the-point defense of hipsters, but otherwise this discussion has been pretty focused on the fashion and the show. (Title of the main link notwithstanding.)
posted by stopgap at 12:34 PM on June 14, 2013
Nah, there was one missing-the-point defense of hipsters, but otherwise this discussion has been pretty focused on the fashion and the show. (Title of the main link notwithstanding.)
posted by stopgap at 12:34 PM on June 14, 2013
Rustic Etruscan: Someone on the House of Cards thread said that the early '90s were in the uncanny valley of their own memory: Neither far enough away to be historical nor close enough to recognize as their own.
Yeah, the 1980s basically lasted until at least 1994, if we're talking mainstream fashion, especially as it was shown on TV.
posted by Len at 12:35 PM on June 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
Yeah, the 1980s basically lasted until at least 1994, if we're talking mainstream fashion, especially as it was shown on TV.
posted by Len at 12:35 PM on June 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
Nah, there was one missing-the-point defense of hipsters, but otherwise this discussion has been pretty focused on the fashion and the show.
Let's keep it that way.
posted by josher71 at 12:36 PM on June 14, 2013
Let's keep it that way.
posted by josher71 at 12:36 PM on June 14, 2013
Real truth, here, I have this amazing jacket that looks like it's made out of an old horse blanket, with toggle buttons and a hood that looks EXACTLY like something Jackie would wear (or maybe one of Darlene's burnout friends) and I constantly get compliments on it. I don't really know how to handle that at all.
posted by Sara C. at 12:39 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Sara C. at 12:39 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yeah, the 1980s basically lasted until at least 1994, if we're talking mainstream fashion, especially as it was shown on TV.
I seem to remember a general phase-out of retro-50's with post-space aged fabrics (think narrow vinyl ties) in sharp angular cuts starting already in the mid-80s or so and a sort-of phase-in of what was to build into a baggie, loose cut neo-hippie/new bohemian style that was taken over by the more working class grunge look by the mid-90s. This coincided with "Alternative" music slowly becoming the mainstream.
That's why you see Aunt Jackie in the fringed denim that conjures Easy Rider, but the overall outfit still has some left-overs of the neon dyes that were part of the earlier phase.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:43 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I seem to remember a general phase-out of retro-50's with post-space aged fabrics (think narrow vinyl ties) in sharp angular cuts starting already in the mid-80s or so and a sort-of phase-in of what was to build into a baggie, loose cut neo-hippie/new bohemian style that was taken over by the more working class grunge look by the mid-90s. This coincided with "Alternative" music slowly becoming the mainstream.
That's why you see Aunt Jackie in the fringed denim that conjures Easy Rider, but the overall outfit still has some left-overs of the neon dyes that were part of the earlier phase.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:43 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I'm sorry for letting the sly snark monster take control of my typing fingers, guys. My apologies for contributing to the derail.
Re-railing ---
Yeah, the 1980s basically lasted until at least 1994, if we're talking mainstream fashion, especially as it was shown on TV.
I agree with this but I'd argue that Rosanne itself contains one of the exceptions to this, in the form of Darlene, who was all flannels and angst and feminism from the get-go. While some of those Aunt Jackie outfits could with a couple of mods fit right into the background of a Young MC video, I bet with enough diligence you could easily find some evidence of Kurt Cobain biting Darlene's style.
posted by Diablevert at 12:44 PM on June 14, 2013
Re-railing ---
Yeah, the 1980s basically lasted until at least 1994, if we're talking mainstream fashion, especially as it was shown on TV.
I agree with this but I'd argue that Rosanne itself contains one of the exceptions to this, in the form of Darlene, who was all flannels and angst and feminism from the get-go. While some of those Aunt Jackie outfits could with a couple of mods fit right into the background of a Young MC video, I bet with enough diligence you could easily find some evidence of Kurt Cobain biting Darlene's style.
posted by Diablevert at 12:44 PM on June 14, 2013
I should add, my initial comment about the acid-washed denim was only partially snarky. Acid washing jeans, like a flower-child cum coke-snorting stock broker searching for sanity again, produced both a laid-back broken-in feel AND a high tech, post-modern chemical processing. Oh the duality of the late 80's!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:54 PM on June 14, 2013
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:54 PM on June 14, 2013
Hipsters aren't dressing like Jackie.
Jackie dressed like a character from Twin Peaks. (Mostly Donna.)
We shouldn't surprised if hipsters dress like Twin Peaks characters. I imagine whoever edited this had to throw out a bunch of images of knit sweaters emblazoned with owls or cherry pie slices.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:56 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Jackie dressed like a character from Twin Peaks. (Mostly Donna.)
We shouldn't surprised if hipsters dress like Twin Peaks characters. I imagine whoever edited this had to throw out a bunch of images of knit sweaters emblazoned with owls or cherry pie slices.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:56 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Diablevert: I agree with this but I'd argue that Rosanne itself contains one of the exceptions to this, in the form of Darlene, who was all flannels and angst and feminism from the get-go. While some of those Aunt Jackie outfits could with a couple of mods fit right into the background of a Young MC video, I bet with enough diligence you could easily find some evidence of Kurt Cobain biting Darlene's style.
See, I wouldn't count Darlene as an exception, so much as a deliberate bit of very savvy costume design. Yes, Darlene spent almost the entirety of Roseanne in flannels, checked shirts and denim, and that absolutely matches what a kid of her age would have been wearing, and was thus congruent with the fashion of the era. But Jackie's style – as an adult and not someone who was, to an extent, even if it was small, representing the contemporary counter-culture, such as it was – was an attempt to reflect (successfully, I think) what working class American women of the early 90s thought of as fashionable. I should emphasise that I don't think that it's bad that working class American women thought of fashions that we associate with the 1980s were still, to them, current in the mid 1990s; just that the delineations between decades are, more than than anything, a pretty arbitrary dividing line.
posted by Len at 12:58 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
See, I wouldn't count Darlene as an exception, so much as a deliberate bit of very savvy costume design. Yes, Darlene spent almost the entirety of Roseanne in flannels, checked shirts and denim, and that absolutely matches what a kid of her age would have been wearing, and was thus congruent with the fashion of the era. But Jackie's style – as an adult and not someone who was, to an extent, even if it was small, representing the contemporary counter-culture, such as it was – was an attempt to reflect (successfully, I think) what working class American women of the early 90s thought of as fashionable. I should emphasise that I don't think that it's bad that working class American women thought of fashions that we associate with the 1980s were still, to them, current in the mid 1990s; just that the delineations between decades are, more than than anything, a pretty arbitrary dividing line.
posted by Len at 12:58 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
I thought she dressed more like Maggie O'Connell?
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:59 PM on June 14, 2013
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:59 PM on June 14, 2013
Bunny Ultramod, Roseanne was several years old by the time Twin Peaks appeared.
posted by SuzySmith at 1:00 PM on June 14, 2013
posted by SuzySmith at 1:00 PM on June 14, 2013
I should emphasise that I don't think that it's bad that working class American women thought of fashions that we associate with the 1980s were still, to them, current in the mid 1990s; just that the delineations between decades are, more than than anything, a pretty arbitrary dividing line.
A while ago, the AV Club posted an appreciation of "Skid Row," the opening number in the film adaptation of Little Shop of Horrors. In the comments, someone complimented the movie on its set and costume design.
Though the movie was set in the early sixties, not everything on screen showed it. Instead, the neighborhood had storefronts from the twenties (or even the teens!), jackets that would have better fit in the fifties, and so on. Everything looked old and used. The commenter said that this mix of eras did a much better job of portraying the poverty of the neighborhood than a more up-to-date design would have done.
I should rewatch Roseanne. It's been years since I even thought of it - like Star Trek: The Next Generation, another show I haven't really watched, it belongs to my early childhood - but its attention to small details like that piques my interest.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:06 PM on June 14, 2013
A while ago, the AV Club posted an appreciation of "Skid Row," the opening number in the film adaptation of Little Shop of Horrors. In the comments, someone complimented the movie on its set and costume design.
Though the movie was set in the early sixties, not everything on screen showed it. Instead, the neighborhood had storefronts from the twenties (or even the teens!), jackets that would have better fit in the fifties, and so on. Everything looked old and used. The commenter said that this mix of eras did a much better job of portraying the poverty of the neighborhood than a more up-to-date design would have done.
I should rewatch Roseanne. It's been years since I even thought of it - like Star Trek: The Next Generation, another show I haven't really watched, it belongs to my early childhood - but its attention to small details like that piques my interest.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:06 PM on June 14, 2013
I'm not saying Jackie styled herself after Twin Peaks; I'm saying they were costumed very similarly. It was Hollywood's idea of how small-town people dressed, and, in both cases, the design reflected a great deal of eccentricity. Erin Quigley, who did the work for Roseanne, was actually a Broadway costumer, while Sara Markowitz, who did Twin Peaks, haunted thrift stores to find her characters costumes.
So these are both examples of Los Angeles-based costumers (both shows were shot around LA, Roseanne at CBS Studio Center, Twin Peaks at City Studios in Van Nuys) putting a sort of florid, theatrical sensibility onto costumes that were ostensibly for small-town (and frequently working class) character. I'm not surprised they look alike, and I am not surprised that contemporary so-called hipsters sort of look like it, because that's a very common hipster sensibility as well.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:12 PM on June 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
So these are both examples of Los Angeles-based costumers (both shows were shot around LA, Roseanne at CBS Studio Center, Twin Peaks at City Studios in Van Nuys) putting a sort of florid, theatrical sensibility onto costumes that were ostensibly for small-town (and frequently working class) character. I'm not surprised they look alike, and I am not surprised that contemporary so-called hipsters sort of look like it, because that's a very common hipster sensibility as well.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:12 PM on June 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
By the way, the blog Third and Delaware really digs into the fashions of Roseanne with the sort of obsessiveness that the Mad Men fashion blog brings to its work.
Tell me this isn't a shot from Twin Peaks.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:16 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Tell me this isn't a shot from Twin Peaks.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:16 PM on June 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Hipsters aren't dressing like Jackie.
I have actual friends who live in Williamsburg and are the sorts of people the tumblr is talking about who constantly post on Facebook about how they're watching all of Roseanne on Netflix and about how it's a style inspiration specifically.
I think there are a lot of influences circling the drain at the same time, but Roseanne Style is definitely a specific inspiration for actual people who really exist.
I don't think that it's bad that working class American women thought of fashions that we associate with the 1980s were still, to them, current in the mid 1990s; just that the delineations between decades are, more than than anything, a pretty arbitrary dividing line.
One thing that I think is important to be aware of is that, especially pre-internet, styles trickled down very slowly. It was interesting to me that mygothlaundry mentioned that fringe jacket being hip in the East Village in the 80s, since that fringy denim neo-Cowboy aesthetic hit my mostly working-class southern hometown in the early-mid 90s.
I actually remember being kind of fashion obsessed in like 1995 (note: I was 14) and making the official switch from pegged jeans to flares, baggy tees to baby tees, etc. and looking around at people still wearing Jackie Style and thinking they looked like fucking tools. When those people definitely were style conscious and locally still on-trend.
(I wonder if, in another 5-10 years, someone is going to make a Tumblr for hipsters dressing like Phoebe from Friends?)
posted by Sara C. at 1:17 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I have actual friends who live in Williamsburg and are the sorts of people the tumblr is talking about who constantly post on Facebook about how they're watching all of Roseanne on Netflix and about how it's a style inspiration specifically.
I think there are a lot of influences circling the drain at the same time, but Roseanne Style is definitely a specific inspiration for actual people who really exist.
I don't think that it's bad that working class American women thought of fashions that we associate with the 1980s were still, to them, current in the mid 1990s; just that the delineations between decades are, more than than anything, a pretty arbitrary dividing line.
One thing that I think is important to be aware of is that, especially pre-internet, styles trickled down very slowly. It was interesting to me that mygothlaundry mentioned that fringe jacket being hip in the East Village in the 80s, since that fringy denim neo-Cowboy aesthetic hit my mostly working-class southern hometown in the early-mid 90s.
I actually remember being kind of fashion obsessed in like 1995 (note: I was 14) and making the official switch from pegged jeans to flares, baggy tees to baby tees, etc. and looking around at people still wearing Jackie Style and thinking they looked like fucking tools. When those people definitely were style conscious and locally still on-trend.
(I wonder if, in another 5-10 years, someone is going to make a Tumblr for hipsters dressing like Phoebe from Friends?)
posted by Sara C. at 1:17 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Bunny Ultramod: "Tell me this isn't a shot from Twin Peaks."
And if I'm not mistaken, it's from the last season of Roseanne -- which was easily the strangest thing to be broadcast ABC after Twin Peaks left the airwaves.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:22 PM on June 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
And if I'm not mistaken, it's from the last season of Roseanne -- which was easily the strangest thing to be broadcast ABC after Twin Peaks left the airwaves.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:22 PM on June 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
Wait I thought Bunny Ultramod was archly suggesting that it's styled just like Twin Peaks, not that it's a still from Twin Peaks.
That harsh lighting and Jackie's bold solid colored dress without a lot of texture is very Twin Peaks, though.
(Is that Roseanne's mom in the background of the shot? She looks amazing and horrifying at the same time.)
posted by Sara C. at 1:24 PM on June 14, 2013
That harsh lighting and Jackie's bold solid colored dress without a lot of texture is very Twin Peaks, though.
(Is that Roseanne's mom in the background of the shot? She looks amazing and horrifying at the same time.)
posted by Sara C. at 1:24 PM on June 14, 2013
Sara C.:One thing that I think is important to be aware of is that, especially pre-internet, styles trickled down very slowly. It was interesting to me that mygothlaundry mentioned that fringe jacket being hip in the East Village in the 80s, since that fringy denim neo-Cowboy aesthetic hit my mostly working-class southern hometown in the early-mid 90s.
Yes, that's a better phrasing of what I was trying to get across. I think there is an unpleasant tendency to mock working class people for committing the cardinal sin of not knowing what is currently fashionable in the East Village or Hoxton, and how ludicrous they are for following fashion trends that are not even last season, but last decade, darling. I mean, if you watch episodes of Absolutely Fabulous from the early 90s, Edina and Patsy seem as tied to to the '80s as Jackie, but in a different, more acceptable way, because they're doing it with insider knowledge. Because they're not a hick from central Illinois, and therefore if they are rocking it 80s style, it's with a knowing wink.
posted by Len at 1:36 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes, that's a better phrasing of what I was trying to get across. I think there is an unpleasant tendency to mock working class people for committing the cardinal sin of not knowing what is currently fashionable in the East Village or Hoxton, and how ludicrous they are for following fashion trends that are not even last season, but last decade, darling. I mean, if you watch episodes of Absolutely Fabulous from the early 90s, Edina and Patsy seem as tied to to the '80s as Jackie, but in a different, more acceptable way, because they're doing it with insider knowledge. Because they're not a hick from central Illinois, and therefore if they are rocking it 80s style, it's with a knowing wink.
posted by Len at 1:36 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I wonder if, in another 5-10 years, someone is going to make a Tumblr for hipsters dressing like Phoebe from Friends?
Oh my god, if I ever have enough patience to get things tailored so as to shrink Phoebe-fashion down to someone half her height, I am going to look like such an aging hipster. I can't wait!
posted by Mizu at 2:00 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Oh my god, if I ever have enough patience to get things tailored so as to shrink Phoebe-fashion down to someone half her height, I am going to look like such an aging hipster. I can't wait!
posted by Mizu at 2:00 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Now as I look at that jacket I am unsure why. And I realize that I don't have any idea whatever happened to it. Ah the lost clothes of youth. Hee. I also had a giant T-shirt I got on 14th St.that said LEAVE ME ALONE in big pink, green and black letters. I wore that with black capri length leggings and that jacket and black pumps and let me tell you, I was pretty damn cool.
posted by mygothlaundry at 2:27 PM on June 14 [11 favorites +] [!]
This is possibly the most eponysterical comment I've ever read on this site.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:23 PM on June 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by mygothlaundry at 2:27 PM on June 14 [11 favorites +] [!]
This is possibly the most eponysterical comment I've ever read on this site.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:23 PM on June 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
Counterpoint: Tumblr is the internet's quarantine.
....That is a very good point.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:25 PM on June 14, 2013
....That is a very good point.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:25 PM on June 14, 2013
mygothlaundry mentioned that fringe jacket being hip in the East Village in the 80s,
Well. Erm. Keep in mind that I thought I was hip but my actual hipness quotient may have been far, far lower than I then believed. And I bought the damn thing either in Charleston, SC or Baltimore, MD, not in NYC at all.
Right around the same time I was stopped on 2nd Ave outside Veselka by a very hip young man. Sort of a Whelk of the 80s, perhaps and he wanted to know where I had gotten my oh so fabulous sweatshirt. It was marbleized. Pink and gray. It might have been hypercolor, no seriously, I loved me some hypercolor and I had lots of it. And I got it at the Caldor going out of business sale in that center of fashion hipness Timonium, Maryland.
I was very flattered but about an hour later it occurred to me that perhaps he was actually not being 100% truthful in his effusive compliments to my sweatshirt.
posted by mygothlaundry at 2:30 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well. Erm. Keep in mind that I thought I was hip but my actual hipness quotient may have been far, far lower than I then believed. And I bought the damn thing either in Charleston, SC or Baltimore, MD, not in NYC at all.
Right around the same time I was stopped on 2nd Ave outside Veselka by a very hip young man. Sort of a Whelk of the 80s, perhaps and he wanted to know where I had gotten my oh so fabulous sweatshirt. It was marbleized. Pink and gray. It might have been hypercolor, no seriously, I loved me some hypercolor and I had lots of it. And I got it at the Caldor going out of business sale in that center of fashion hipness Timonium, Maryland.
I was very flattered but about an hour later it occurred to me that perhaps he was actually not being 100% truthful in his effusive compliments to my sweatshirt.
posted by mygothlaundry at 2:30 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
If his name was Reggie George then your suspicions are correct.
posted by elizardbits at 3:35 PM on June 14, 2013
posted by elizardbits at 3:35 PM on June 14, 2013
I just want to add the whole anti-hipster thing is the new hippy bashing. In about 20 years theres going to be a whole lotta people who are going to regret not having the courage to wear cool clothes or participate in OWS and spent their youth making fun of things they didn't understand.
It looks quite different to me. OWS wasn't the product of hipsterism, though hipsters were included in those who participated.
My experience is that hipsters exalt consumerism often to a mock-worthy extent - the hedonistic obsession with interesting food, with clothes, with being a consumer of something "before it was cool" (to quote the stereotype). Mockery of people who exalt in consumerism, for their exalting in consumerism is fine by me. Doubly so if there are overtones of consumerism being something that other, lesser, people chase.
Don't be the person whose highest calling is the scenester on top of it all, looking for obscure new novelties and culture to consume, be the person who creates new things and culture. (A hipster who is in a band, trying hard to create cool new shit, respect. But a hipster who is all about trying out that new hole-in-the-wall place... meh, just another hedonist chasing a life of consumerism.)
posted by anonymisc at 3:50 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
It looks quite different to me. OWS wasn't the product of hipsterism, though hipsters were included in those who participated.
My experience is that hipsters exalt consumerism often to a mock-worthy extent - the hedonistic obsession with interesting food, with clothes, with being a consumer of something "before it was cool" (to quote the stereotype). Mockery of people who exalt in consumerism, for their exalting in consumerism is fine by me. Doubly so if there are overtones of consumerism being something that other, lesser, people chase.
Don't be the person whose highest calling is the scenester on top of it all, looking for obscure new novelties and culture to consume, be the person who creates new things and culture. (A hipster who is in a band, trying hard to create cool new shit, respect. But a hipster who is all about trying out that new hole-in-the-wall place... meh, just another hedonist chasing a life of consumerism.)
posted by anonymisc at 3:50 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
not having the courage to wear cool clothes
Take that, Aristotle! First of human qualities my ass! My shirt has an ironic chicken on it! Does yours, old man? You'll be sorry in twenty years, just you wait!
posted by obiwanwasabi at 4:10 PM on June 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
Take that, Aristotle! First of human qualities my ass! My shirt has an ironic chicken on it! Does yours, old man? You'll be sorry in twenty years, just you wait!
posted by obiwanwasabi at 4:10 PM on June 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
First of all: I love, LOVE Roseanne.
Second of all: Surprised to see it hasn't come up yet in a thread celebrating the brilliance of Roseanne's costume design -- one of the many heated arguments between Roseanne and the network was over costume design. ABC wanted Roseanne to look put together and wear matchy-matchy sweatsuits and other TV executives' "versions" of what a working class housewife would wear. Roseanne insisted on wearing t-shirts (the chicken and egg shirt!!!) and blue jeans and clothing that she believed to be more realistic and relatable. Roseanne won, and the show became the really detailed, sensitive, brilliantly costumed sitcom we know and love.
And I fucking love Becky's outfits with suspenders.
posted by telegraph at 5:00 PM on June 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
Second of all: Surprised to see it hasn't come up yet in a thread celebrating the brilliance of Roseanne's costume design -- one of the many heated arguments between Roseanne and the network was over costume design. ABC wanted Roseanne to look put together and wear matchy-matchy sweatsuits and other TV executives' "versions" of what a working class housewife would wear. Roseanne insisted on wearing t-shirts (the chicken and egg shirt!!!) and blue jeans and clothing that she believed to be more realistic and relatable. Roseanne won, and the show became the really detailed, sensitive, brilliantly costumed sitcom we know and love.
And I fucking love Becky's outfits with suspenders.
posted by telegraph at 5:00 PM on June 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
So how's that work? You get a screengrab of Jackie in an outfit and then do a google image search against it and voila! twentysomethings dressed up in Aunt Jackie's clothes?
posted by notyou at 5:15 PM on June 14, 2013
posted by notyou at 5:15 PM on June 14, 2013
Hipsters haven't got a clue what Jackie was all about. The form fitting small t-shirts, jazzing up the dress to go from frump to style--nope, they haven't captured the essence.
Okay but that Chicken & Egg shirt, what self-respecting Roseanne fan with disposable income wouldn't want to buy it?
The Chicken & Egg shirt! Oh yes, I would wear that to a wedding.
OK, not really.
posted by BlueHorse at 5:27 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Okay but that Chicken & Egg shirt, what self-respecting Roseanne fan with disposable income wouldn't want to buy it?
The Chicken & Egg shirt! Oh yes, I would wear that to a wedding.
OK, not really.
posted by BlueHorse at 5:27 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Don't be the person whose highest calling is the scenester on top of it all, looking for obscure new novelties and culture to consumeOh man. I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
A few years ago I took a Spanish class that was required for my degree. My boyfriend -- a librarian who services a working-class community, many of whom speak Spanish as a first language -- had found some songs and records by rock en espanol artists as a way of helping me to better understand the language. I came to really enjoy those artists, to the point where I began covering Central and South American rock bands for a few blogs. Though I joke that Carla Morrison is indirectly responsible for my B grade in the class, I kept up my Spanish studies once the class ended and I frequently read about and follow current events in Central and South America so that I can understand what the artists I love are writing about.
At the same time, though, I know how it appears that a middle-aged white woman such as myself is listening to and writing about music that's from a culture that is not my own. I know that other people who are consciously aware of privilege might think that I'm consuming and appropriating South American music and not fully understanding the culture from which it came. As conscientious and aware of my privilege as a Caucasian person from a middle-class American family as I try to be, I've also made some really embarrassing gaffes. The way I try to..."justify" seems like the wrong word, but if I didn't write about these bands, I don't know who would, and I do make an effort to be responsible in the way I write about these records. But I do feel like I constantly have an internal argument with myself whenever I write a review or interview a band.
Sorry about this derail...
posted by pxe2000 at 5:52 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
If it helps any, pxe2000, Latin American culture has evolved out of a pastiche of cultures -- literally from all over the world. I don't think it can be damaged or diminished by a middle class American taking an interest in it, especially one who is trying as hard as you are to listen with care.
And anyway, the DIY ethos is strong with the hipsters, isn't it? Maybe there's more to their culture than consuming novelties.
posted by notyou at 6:14 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
And anyway, the DIY ethos is strong with the hipsters, isn't it? Maybe there's more to their culture than consuming novelties.
posted by notyou at 6:14 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
We do not actually need a tumblr for every single last thing that exists in this world or any alternate world in any known or unknown dimensions.
This made me think of rule 34. So I googled and yes, Roseanne porn does exist. I haven't been brave enough to click the link.
posted by arcticseal at 6:16 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
This made me think of rule 34. So I googled and yes, Roseanne porn does exist. I haven't been brave enough to click the link.
posted by arcticseal at 6:16 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I know how it appears that a middle-aged white woman such as myself is listening to and writing about music that's from a culture that is not my own.
You know what? Fuck that. You like what you like. One of the best things about our increasingly global and mobile culture is that we're exposed to amazing aesthetic experiences we otherwise wouldn't have access to.
It doesn't get across the exact nuance of how I feel, but I have to say, Emma Goldman said it best: "If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution."
Also, anyone who thinks kids in favelas around the world aren't using cheap cell phones to access the same cultural smorgasbord is an ignorant asshole.
(Use of the phrase "fuck that" in the above post is not meant to be an attack on pxe2000 at all, but on people who would claim that it's wrong for her to enjoy and share Central American pop music because she's white.)
posted by Sara C. at 7:55 PM on June 14, 2013 [7 favorites]
You know what? Fuck that. You like what you like. One of the best things about our increasingly global and mobile culture is that we're exposed to amazing aesthetic experiences we otherwise wouldn't have access to.
It doesn't get across the exact nuance of how I feel, but I have to say, Emma Goldman said it best: "If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution."
Also, anyone who thinks kids in favelas around the world aren't using cheap cell phones to access the same cultural smorgasbord is an ignorant asshole.
(Use of the phrase "fuck that" in the above post is not meant to be an attack on pxe2000 at all, but on people who would claim that it's wrong for her to enjoy and share Central American pop music because she's white.)
posted by Sara C. at 7:55 PM on June 14, 2013 [7 favorites]
For the love of God, hipster-hating is as played-out as Williamsburg.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:24 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Navelgazer at 8:24 PM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
(FYI, there's an episode where they all wear the chicken and egg shirt. Nobody mentions it, but in every scene one of the main characters has it on)
posted by sexyrobot at 10:32 PM on June 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by sexyrobot at 10:32 PM on June 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
Original Jackie:Hipster Jackie :: Nurse Uniform:Halloween Sexy Nurse
posted by desuetude at 11:09 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by desuetude at 11:09 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
For the love of God, hipster-hating is as played-out as Williamsburg
I don't know that means, but I'll assume Williamsburg is all fertile fields, overflowing with an endless bounty of sweet, low-hanging fruit.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:09 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't know that means, but I'll assume Williamsburg is all fertile fields, overflowing with an endless bounty of sweet, low-hanging fruit.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:09 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
As a hipster, I don't appreciate the hipster hating comments in here.
posted by josher71 at 6:40 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by josher71 at 6:40 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
I just wanted to say, that I knew about this Tumbler before it was posted on MeFi, a first for me.
Which, logically, would also make me some kind of hipster I guess. Shit. I better start hitting up the op shops to put together an Auntie Jackie outfit.
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 6:50 AM on June 15, 2013
Which, logically, would also make me some kind of hipster I guess. Shit. I better start hitting up the op shops to put together an Auntie Jackie outfit.
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 6:50 AM on June 15, 2013
Also, no-one is dressed like Jackie from Roseanne unless their shirt/sweater is at least two sizes too big and completely obscures their actual body shape.
posted by desuetude at 10:18 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by desuetude at 10:18 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
As a hipster, I don't appreciate the hipster hating comments in here.
Huh. I didn't know anyone self-identified as a hipster. I thought the label was just a way of othering whatever thing the kids are up to these days that infringes upon one's lawn.
posted by stopgap at 2:12 PM on June 15, 2013
Huh. I didn't know anyone self-identified as a hipster. I thought the label was just a way of othering whatever thing the kids are up to these days that infringes upon one's lawn.
posted by stopgap at 2:12 PM on June 15, 2013
This reminds me that when I and my sisters went to college, in the early '90s, we left most of our unwanted high school clothes at home; they were stored in the attic. Two decades later, our mom is clearing out the attic. She asks me to go through the items to see if anything is worth saving.
Everything was the wrong shape.
Shoulders were bizarrely wide and dropped. Armholes came down part way to your waist. Waistlines (especially on coats and dresses) were dropped down to the hips. Pants were tight in the waist and body, baggy in the thighs, and tight again at the ankles.
We were all relatively slender as high school kids and the clothing had not been drastically fashionable. This is just the way clothes were shaped in the 1980s.
posted by bad grammar at 6:05 PM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
Everything was the wrong shape.
Shoulders were bizarrely wide and dropped. Armholes came down part way to your waist. Waistlines (especially on coats and dresses) were dropped down to the hips. Pants were tight in the waist and body, baggy in the thighs, and tight again at the ankles.
We were all relatively slender as high school kids and the clothing had not been drastically fashionable. This is just the way clothes were shaped in the 1980s.
posted by bad grammar at 6:05 PM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
Hipsters are the new antiestablishment. Making fun of them is to stand with the old guard yuppies and sellouts.
Somebody just blew their allowance on a 80's style puffy jacket to go with their handle bar mustache.
posted by bystander at 6:20 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Somebody just blew their allowance on a 80's style puffy jacket to go with their handle bar mustache.
posted by bystander at 6:20 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
But seriously, defending hipsters as anything other than a fashion is ridiculous. Yes, there are politically active young people who fight the good fight and happen to share fashion queues with the hipster scene, but it is very much cart before the horse. There are many, many hipster fashionistas who don't give a shit, and plenty of hard working fighters for social justice who find hipster fashion revolting.
That there is overlap is more an example of youth being interested in anti-establishment and fashion at the same time, not an indication that hipster fashion isn't as ridiculous as any other fashion trend that appeals to young people at any particular time.
TL/DR growing your hair in the 60s didn't make you a revolutionary.
posted by bystander at 6:26 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
That there is overlap is more an example of youth being interested in anti-establishment and fashion at the same time, not an indication that hipster fashion isn't as ridiculous as any other fashion trend that appeals to young people at any particular time.
TL/DR growing your hair in the 60s didn't make you a revolutionary.
posted by bystander at 6:26 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I agree with this but I'd argue that Rosanne itself contains one of the exceptions to this, in the form of Darlene, who was all flannels and angst and feminism from the get-go.
Darlene didn't assume that style til I think season 3. For the first two or three seasons, her schtick was that she was a tomboy who hated Becky and bullied DJ.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:52 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Darlene didn't assume that style til I think season 3. For the first two or three seasons, her schtick was that she was a tomboy who hated Becky and bullied DJ.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:52 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
I was very flattered but about an hour later it occurred to me that perhaps he was actually not being 100% truthful in his effusive compliments to my sweatshirt.
Maybe hipsters have invented time travel in order to go back and sarcastically "compliment" people on their super-80's fashion choices.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 6:43 AM on June 17, 2013
Maybe hipsters have invented time travel in order to go back and sarcastically "compliment" people on their super-80's fashion choices.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 6:43 AM on June 17, 2013
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posted by xingcat at 10:54 AM on June 14, 2013 [21 favorites]