i'm transgender. i'm very sure of this and not at all sure what it means
May 30, 2014 3:40 AM Subscribe
“Are you a boy or a girl?”: Our trans-bisexual love story
I enjoyed reading this piece. We are very complicated creatures and little in life is truly concrete. The real goal is finding happiness, not definition; not everything needs to be defined.
posted by kinnakeet at 5:36 AM on May 30, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by kinnakeet at 5:36 AM on May 30, 2014 [5 favorites]
Bisexuality is not a corridor through which one moves from straight to lesbian (or vice versa). It is a constant both-ness that can sometimes feel like a neither-nor proposition. It is both something and nothing.
This. I've realized recently, after being single again for a couple of years, that I'm not interested in dating anyone straight or gay. Either way, a part of myself gets shut down, even with a partner that doesn't try to make my bisexuality invisible.
posted by ursus_comiter at 5:56 AM on May 30, 2014 [5 favorites]
This. I've realized recently, after being single again for a couple of years, that I'm not interested in dating anyone straight or gay. Either way, a part of myself gets shut down, even with a partner that doesn't try to make my bisexuality invisible.
posted by ursus_comiter at 5:56 AM on May 30, 2014 [5 favorites]
"I'm not interested in dating anyone straight or gay. Either way, a part of myself gets shut down, even with a partner that doesn't try to make my bisexuality invisible."
posted by ursus_comiter
Which is an interesting take on dating as a bi person. If you're willing to talk about it, do you find queer-bi socializing or het-bi-socializing are more, or less, successful for you?
Identification-as-classification, and wanting to date in-group, were strong strategies in the last wave of LGB community-building. I'm not sure they're as relevant now. They certainly no longer function for me - while my sense of self is solid, the terminologies to describe it shift with context. And I am not looking to date same-same OR in a complementary way. I want a more complex dialectic, I suppose. If only I could go back to the days of being a baby dyke chasing after other tomboys. It seemed so simple then, but the reality of that only-sort-of-working is what led to who and how I am now. Dating based on ID is no longer viable for me, and waiting to see about other's behavior over time is a slow process, especially long-distance. (I've given up trying to find anyone local)
posted by Dreidl at 9:08 AM on May 30, 2014
posted by ursus_comiter
Which is an interesting take on dating as a bi person. If you're willing to talk about it, do you find queer-bi socializing or het-bi-socializing are more, or less, successful for you?
Identification-as-classification, and wanting to date in-group, were strong strategies in the last wave of LGB community-building. I'm not sure they're as relevant now. They certainly no longer function for me - while my sense of self is solid, the terminologies to describe it shift with context. And I am not looking to date same-same OR in a complementary way. I want a more complex dialectic, I suppose. If only I could go back to the days of being a baby dyke chasing after other tomboys. It seemed so simple then, but the reality of that only-sort-of-working is what led to who and how I am now. Dating based on ID is no longer viable for me, and waiting to see about other's behavior over time is a slow process, especially long-distance. (I've given up trying to find anyone local)
posted by Dreidl at 9:08 AM on May 30, 2014
Which is an interesting take on dating as a bi person. If you're willing to talk about it, do you find queer-bi socializing or het-bi-socializing are more, or less, successful for you?
Did you mean gay-bi socializing?
I've had different issues and would probably say that I've been a lot more successful on the het side, but there's a lot of caveats there. I'm a Kinsey 1.5, I'd say. So, I'm more drawn to women in the first place, and am probably hetero-romantic even. I was partnered with a heterosexual woman for a few years in my 20s, which ended for other reasons, but during that whole time I was pretty much cast in the role of hetero male even when I tried not to be.
And sure, that'll happen to some degree with two queer heterosex partners, but I've also had a 13 year relationship that ended recently with someone who identified as a woman at the start of it, but who was also queer, and having that space where we both understood that about the other and could enjoy our various everyday expressions of that was a really wonderful part of our relationship. It also meant that our social circle tended to be a lot more liminally queer.
Hmmm... Yeah, invoking liminal. That's the headspace that I'm in that I don't find much when I'm in heterosexual spaces, nor in gay spaces.
Yeah, gay men are NOT about the liminal. I'm told by younger queer/bi friends that these days it's better, but I've gotten so much bullshit from gay men telling me I was really gay and just didn't want to admit it. Nope.
posted by ursus_comiter at 9:41 AM on May 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
Did you mean gay-bi socializing?
I've had different issues and would probably say that I've been a lot more successful on the het side, but there's a lot of caveats there. I'm a Kinsey 1.5, I'd say. So, I'm more drawn to women in the first place, and am probably hetero-romantic even. I was partnered with a heterosexual woman for a few years in my 20s, which ended for other reasons, but during that whole time I was pretty much cast in the role of hetero male even when I tried not to be.
And sure, that'll happen to some degree with two queer heterosex partners, but I've also had a 13 year relationship that ended recently with someone who identified as a woman at the start of it, but who was also queer, and having that space where we both understood that about the other and could enjoy our various everyday expressions of that was a really wonderful part of our relationship. It also meant that our social circle tended to be a lot more liminally queer.
Hmmm... Yeah, invoking liminal. That's the headspace that I'm in that I don't find much when I'm in heterosexual spaces, nor in gay spaces.
Yeah, gay men are NOT about the liminal. I'm told by younger queer/bi friends that these days it's better, but I've gotten so much bullshit from gay men telling me I was really gay and just didn't want to admit it. Nope.
posted by ursus_comiter at 9:41 AM on May 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
I see only getting involved with people who identify as pansexual (or "bi") as key to my mental health, personally.
If, as a trans man, I were to seek to date cis people who identify as straight women or gay men, then my gender identity would be affirmed, but I'd have to deal with people freaking out about how my genital configuration or birth sex assignment was somehow challenging their sexual orientation. Also, there's the issue of straight women and cis gay men having the hots for what they often view as a "real" or "normal" phallus, and not for something like I keep in my pants. The sexual panic issue and the genital-squick are both things I really don't want to deal with in a potential sexual relationship.
On the other hand, I'm not about to go dating a lesbian or straight man, because I am a man, and they date women. I do not want my gender identity to be treated as fake.
The only monosexual, binary-gender-identity configuration that could work to support my gender identity and sexual security would be to get involved with a gay-identified trans guy. Which I suppose I could, but frankly, I don't really get monosexual people. I have never felt sexually oriented, I think androgyny is hot, and I couldn't care less about whether someone is a genital innie or outie. So it's pansexuals for me!
posted by DrMew at 10:12 AM on May 30, 2014 [8 favorites]
If, as a trans man, I were to seek to date cis people who identify as straight women or gay men, then my gender identity would be affirmed, but I'd have to deal with people freaking out about how my genital configuration or birth sex assignment was somehow challenging their sexual orientation. Also, there's the issue of straight women and cis gay men having the hots for what they often view as a "real" or "normal" phallus, and not for something like I keep in my pants. The sexual panic issue and the genital-squick are both things I really don't want to deal with in a potential sexual relationship.
On the other hand, I'm not about to go dating a lesbian or straight man, because I am a man, and they date women. I do not want my gender identity to be treated as fake.
The only monosexual, binary-gender-identity configuration that could work to support my gender identity and sexual security would be to get involved with a gay-identified trans guy. Which I suppose I could, but frankly, I don't really get monosexual people. I have never felt sexually oriented, I think androgyny is hot, and I couldn't care less about whether someone is a genital innie or outie. So it's pansexuals for me!
posted by DrMew at 10:12 AM on May 30, 2014 [8 favorites]
I like the way this piece acknowledges that certain faux-pas can be completely innocent, and part of learning.
It's sweet. It is romantic. And we really need more like this, to serve as examples for the masses of us who grew up in heteronormative contexts and might not have yet fully pictured the simple humanity of non-heteronormative, non-cis relationships.
posted by MeanwhileBackAtTheRanch at 1:37 PM on May 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's sweet. It is romantic. And we really need more like this, to serve as examples for the masses of us who grew up in heteronormative contexts and might not have yet fully pictured the simple humanity of non-heteronormative, non-cis relationships.
posted by MeanwhileBackAtTheRanch at 1:37 PM on May 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
The phase space of gender identity has some weird corners.
I'm middle-aged, male, cis-gendered, and married to a middle-aged, female, cis-gendered spouse.
Except ... immediately before we became an item my previous partner was male and her previous partner was female; we're both self-identified bisexuals, and being in a stable long-term heterosexual relationship (we got married on our tenth anniversary, more than a decade ago) just feels odd. Almost guilt-inducing. Because nothing is as invisible as being bi in a long-term opposite-gender relationship: you get the benefit of heteronormative privilege, but you also start wondering if you're lying to yourself about the chunk of your identity you're not publicly expressing.
(Wife's comment on this piece: "oh good, this makes me feel more normal".)
((Supplementary note: she's a lot less invisible than I am, being part of the Order of Perpetual Indulgence. I ought to get out more.)
posted by cstross at 4:04 PM on May 30, 2014 [11 favorites]
I'm middle-aged, male, cis-gendered, and married to a middle-aged, female, cis-gendered spouse.
Except ... immediately before we became an item my previous partner was male and her previous partner was female; we're both self-identified bisexuals, and being in a stable long-term heterosexual relationship (we got married on our tenth anniversary, more than a decade ago) just feels odd. Almost guilt-inducing. Because nothing is as invisible as being bi in a long-term opposite-gender relationship: you get the benefit of heteronormative privilege, but you also start wondering if you're lying to yourself about the chunk of your identity you're not publicly expressing.
(Wife's comment on this piece: "oh good, this makes me feel more normal".)
((Supplementary note: she's a lot less invisible than I am, being part of the Order of Perpetual Indulgence. I ought to get out more.)
posted by cstross at 4:04 PM on May 30, 2014 [11 favorites]
but you also start wondering if you're lying to yourself about the chunk of your identity you're not publicly expressing.
Oh god, yes. Thanks for putting this into words for me.
posted by Violet Femme at 5:24 AM on May 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Oh god, yes. Thanks for putting this into words for me.
posted by Violet Femme at 5:24 AM on May 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Which is an interesting take on dating as a bi person. If you're willing to talk about it, do you find queer-bi socializing or het-bi-socializing are more, or less, successful for you?
Relationships are always hard, but were I single again, I wouldn't willingly, again walk into a situation where a partner could throw my sexuality at me as a weapon, or as rationalization for their bad behavior.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:09 AM on June 1, 2014
Relationships are always hard, but were I single again, I wouldn't willingly, again walk into a situation where a partner could throw my sexuality at me as a weapon, or as rationalization for their bad behavior.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:09 AM on June 1, 2014
13 lies we have to stop telling about bisexuals
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 2:14 PM on June 2, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 2:14 PM on June 2, 2014 [1 favorite]
'Proud to be a happily married bisexual mother. Marriage is about love not gender.'
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 4:22 AM on June 11, 2014
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 4:22 AM on June 11, 2014
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posted by Violet Femme at 4:40 AM on May 30, 2014 [4 favorites]