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September 20, 2014 8:41 AM Subscribe
"At best, the lines for iPhones are undignified. This film by @CaseyNeistat shows they can be sad & creepy, too." SLYT via @ihnatko.
The title of the clip is "iPhone 6 Lines and the Chinese Mafia". Not sure how they can tell if this activity is linked to any criminal gangs. You don't need any criminal connections to profit from iphones which sell for over 2000USD in China.
posted by noshorning at 9:00 AM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by noshorning at 9:00 AM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
I wonder why that woman got arrested. Other than that, it seemed like what I'd expect. As long as there are humans in the line and they get two products, why am I supposed to care what they do with their purchase. It's like lines for shoes. If guys want to resell the two pairs they got, they can, or if they want to display them and not wear them, they can. I was a dummy and read the youtube comments because I didn't know for sure why the video references 'The Chinese Mafia.' So I guess this is a huge deal and has been a problem with apple products?
posted by cashman at 9:01 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 9:01 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
The entire piece seemed more like thinly veiled xenophobia. Resellers have always existed, it's just that these are foreign resellers that seems to be the problem. I'm fairly certain resellers have always been a part of new shiny expensive consumer objects.
posted by kurosawa's pal at 9:04 AM on September 20, 2014 [40 favorites]
posted by kurosawa's pal at 9:04 AM on September 20, 2014 [40 favorites]
Apple creates this artificial scarcity every time they release a product. This activity is planned and expected and quite profitable for them.
posted by rocket88 at 9:06 AM on September 20, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by rocket88 at 9:06 AM on September 20, 2014 [4 favorites]
Rocket88, what's your point, that Apple is part of the Chinese Mafia?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:10 AM on September 20, 2014
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:10 AM on September 20, 2014
Apple creates this artificial scarcity every time they release a product.
That's false. Demand for Apple products definitely outstrips supply at launch, but that's not because Apple isn't making them and shipping them as fast as they can. They turn over their entire inventory - all of it - in less than a week.
posted by mhoye at 9:14 AM on September 20, 2014 [21 favorites]
That's false. Demand for Apple products definitely outstrips supply at launch, but that's not because Apple isn't making them and shipping them as fast as they can. They turn over their entire inventory - all of it - in less than a week.
posted by mhoye at 9:14 AM on September 20, 2014 [21 favorites]
"Apple creates this artificial scarcity every time they release a product".
So the execs sit around and determine how few phones to actually manufacture/deliver as a strategy to sell more phones?
posted by parki at 9:15 AM on September 20, 2014 [11 favorites]
So the execs sit around and determine how few phones to actually manufacture/deliver as a strategy to sell more phones?
posted by parki at 9:15 AM on September 20, 2014 [11 favorites]
I wish I could believe Apple cares. But they get their money anyway and no one ever really notices. I went to the Christiana Mall in Delaware yesterday. There were hundreds of people, primarily Asian, waiting in line.
My friend who works at the Apple Store says they're there every day to buy iPhones to resell. This is even after the current model iPhones launch in China. They all buy their limit in cash and do it again, sometimes trying to do it again (against the rules) the same day.
I think if Apple wants to be fair and discourage these things, they need to at least treat their launch day sales differently. They have the ability to create a virtual line without ever having a real line of people sleeping on a sidewalk. In fact, in many locations, Apple employees would go down the line, assigning a reservation good until the end of the day for a particular iPhone.
I mean, it's weird. The phones are built in China, shipped here, then someone waits in line for days to ship it back to where it came from.
Of course resellers are always a thing with popular products. It's just that this has become such a common thing, an expected thing, that Apple should do something about it. You'd imagine Apple would want more applauding, excited fanboys at the front of the line and not exhausted elderly people ready to cross the street to sell the phone to the grey market middleman.
posted by inturnaround at 9:16 AM on September 20, 2014
My friend who works at the Apple Store says they're there every day to buy iPhones to resell. This is even after the current model iPhones launch in China. They all buy their limit in cash and do it again, sometimes trying to do it again (against the rules) the same day.
I think if Apple wants to be fair and discourage these things, they need to at least treat their launch day sales differently. They have the ability to create a virtual line without ever having a real line of people sleeping on a sidewalk. In fact, in many locations, Apple employees would go down the line, assigning a reservation good until the end of the day for a particular iPhone.
I mean, it's weird. The phones are built in China, shipped here, then someone waits in line for days to ship it back to where it came from.
Of course resellers are always a thing with popular products. It's just that this has become such a common thing, an expected thing, that Apple should do something about it. You'd imagine Apple would want more applauding, excited fanboys at the front of the line and not exhausted elderly people ready to cross the street to sell the phone to the grey market middleman.
posted by inturnaround at 9:16 AM on September 20, 2014
Who do they think they are, robbing from the iPhone-rich to give to the iPhone-poor? The Lord hath showered his grace upon this mighty nation in the form of iPhones, and orangutans and breakfast cereals - let no arrogant mortals upset the consumer product distribution balance of Creation!
posted by XMLicious at 9:17 AM on September 20, 2014 [20 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 9:17 AM on September 20, 2014 [20 favorites]
Apple creates this artificial scarcity every time they release a product. This activity is planned and expected and quite profitable for them.
Tim Cook is a master of supply chain management.
You can be sure that if there was a way to have 100 million new iPhones available to sell on launch day, Tim Cook would do it.
posted by fairmettle at 9:18 AM on September 20, 2014 [12 favorites]
Tim Cook is a master of supply chain management.
You can be sure that if there was a way to have 100 million new iPhones available to sell on launch day, Tim Cook would do it.
posted by fairmettle at 9:18 AM on September 20, 2014 [12 favorites]
> it's weird. The phones are built in China, shipped here, then someone waits in line for days to ship it back to where it came from.
The international first-day release is actually only in a dozen or so countries. Major countries like China, Taiwan and South Korea don't get iPhones until later. So if people there want their bragging rights, they have to go to the reseller grey market.
posted by ardgedee at 9:20 AM on September 20, 2014
The international first-day release is actually only in a dozen or so countries. Major countries like China, Taiwan and South Korea don't get iPhones until later. So if people there want their bragging rights, they have to go to the reseller grey market.
posted by ardgedee at 9:20 AM on September 20, 2014
XMLicious: you just got bonus points for "and orangutans and breakfast cereals"
posted by hippybear at 9:22 AM on September 20, 2014
posted by hippybear at 9:22 AM on September 20, 2014
I want to know why the guy shouting at the end is so concerned about this phenomenon's impact on Apple's image.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 9:23 AM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 9:23 AM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
You can be sure that if there was a way to have 100 million new iPhones available to sell on launch day, Tim Cook would do it.
This would require far more manufacturing capacity only to have that capacity spend much of the rest of the year idle.
posted by glhaynes at 9:28 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
This would require far more manufacturing capacity only to have that capacity spend much of the rest of the year idle.
posted by glhaynes at 9:28 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
I understand why the guy is so upset - its like seeing Cinderella's beautiful, sparkling glass slipper sitting on a box on a Payless shelf.
posted by Tullyogallaghan at 9:30 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Tullyogallaghan at 9:30 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
That's just it. People with sunk costs in the image (which is not every iPhone user, of course) do not want the connotations "contaminated" as happened with, say, Burberry.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 9:34 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 9:34 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
I didn't sense xenophobia in this video.
Instead, what I saw was a video lamenting how people are being exploited.
sandettie light vessel automatic: "I want to know why the guy shouting at the end is so concerned about this phenomenon's impact on Apple's image."
Maybe he didn't put it well, but I found myself asking the same question at the end. Why would Apple continue to use a system that so clearly results in people being exploited? And exploited so openly?
That can't look good for them. Why aren't they interested in changing that?
There are lots of ways to release a new product.
posted by Old Man McKay at 9:35 AM on September 20, 2014 [6 favorites]
Instead, what I saw was a video lamenting how people are being exploited.
sandettie light vessel automatic: "I want to know why the guy shouting at the end is so concerned about this phenomenon's impact on Apple's image."
Maybe he didn't put it well, but I found myself asking the same question at the end. Why would Apple continue to use a system that so clearly results in people being exploited? And exploited so openly?
That can't look good for them. Why aren't they interested in changing that?
There are lots of ways to release a new product.
posted by Old Man McKay at 9:35 AM on September 20, 2014 [6 favorites]
I think it's rather that I want my iPhone now and not someone who stands to make a few hundred bucks off it. If Apple can close the loopholes that prevents people from reselling the phones at launch, this wouldn't happen.
Interestingly, the 5S/5C did launch in China the same day as America.
posted by inturnaround at 9:41 AM on September 20, 2014
Interestingly, the 5S/5C did launch in China the same day as America.
posted by inturnaround at 9:41 AM on September 20, 2014
Maybe I'm dense, but I don't really see another way for Apple to release this product. It becomes available on a certain day, with as many as they can get in stores on that day...what else could they do?
posted by gofargogo at 9:42 AM on September 20, 2014
posted by gofargogo at 9:42 AM on September 20, 2014
what else could they do?
This is an interesting example of how the free market doesn't work the way that its main theorists say it does. There's clearly a huge demand with a limited supply, but the price doesn't go up the way that it's theoretically supposed to. If Apple was being a theoretically rational economic actor, it would raise the price of the first batch of iPhones until there was just enough demand to meet the available supply.
They don't, though; instead, they use the old Soviet-style queuing method to distribute their limited first-iPhones-sold goods.
posted by clawsoon at 9:43 AM on September 20, 2014 [10 favorites]
This is an interesting example of how the free market doesn't work the way that its main theorists say it does. There's clearly a huge demand with a limited supply, but the price doesn't go up the way that it's theoretically supposed to. If Apple was being a theoretically rational economic actor, it would raise the price of the first batch of iPhones until there was just enough demand to meet the available supply.
They don't, though; instead, they use the old Soviet-style queuing method to distribute their limited first-iPhones-sold goods.
posted by clawsoon at 9:43 AM on September 20, 2014 [10 favorites]
Tim Cook is a master of supply chain management.
You can be sure that if there was a way to have 100 million new iPhones available to sell on launch day, Tim Cook would do it.
He/they set the launch day, they could have announced in September and launched late October building inventory the whole time. That being said there are plenty of iPhones available at Wal-Mart, Best Buy etc... Some Best Buy employee posted a picture on Reddit of their store that opened hours early for the iPhone six launch, it was empty but for the employees.
posted by MikeMc at 9:45 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
You can be sure that if there was a way to have 100 million new iPhones available to sell on launch day, Tim Cook would do it.
He/they set the launch day, they could have announced in September and launched late October building inventory the whole time. That being said there are plenty of iPhones available at Wal-Mart, Best Buy etc... Some Best Buy employee posted a picture on Reddit of their store that opened hours early for the iPhone six launch, it was empty but for the employees.
posted by MikeMc at 9:45 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
Only allow online preorders? Sell them at more locations? Obviously the lines are great PR for them.
In New York many of the folks waiting in the 20 block lines were taskrabbits hired by rich people at 10$/hr or whatever to deliver them iPhones. That's even sadder than reselling.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:45 AM on September 20, 2014 [6 favorites]
In New York many of the folks waiting in the 20 block lines were taskrabbits hired by rich people at 10$/hr or whatever to deliver them iPhones. That's even sadder than reselling.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:45 AM on September 20, 2014 [6 favorites]
The descriptive value of 'creepy' is reaching pretty much zero.
posted by biffa at 9:47 AM on September 20, 2014 [21 favorites]
posted by biffa at 9:47 AM on September 20, 2014 [21 favorites]
I think it's rather that I want my iPhone now and not someone who stands to make a few hundred bucks off it.
You simply don't want it enough. If you did, you'd find unemployed immigrants of your own and pay them more.
I dont understand what the problem is. It's not a food line. No one is starving, except perhaps the people who have so much time and need the money so badly as to wait in a line and get harassed by the NYPD like that for days and days on end.
This whole thing reads like first world problems, except there's a solution, and these old folks who probably couldn't give a single fuck less have precious precious iPhones to sell because they spent the time and made the wait. And probably paid their rent in two days besides. I give them credit.
posted by nevercalm at 9:54 AM on September 20, 2014 [4 favorites]
You simply don't want it enough. If you did, you'd find unemployed immigrants of your own and pay them more.
I dont understand what the problem is. It's not a food line. No one is starving, except perhaps the people who have so much time and need the money so badly as to wait in a line and get harassed by the NYPD like that for days and days on end.
This whole thing reads like first world problems, except there's a solution, and these old folks who probably couldn't give a single fuck less have precious precious iPhones to sell because they spent the time and made the wait. And probably paid their rent in two days besides. I give them credit.
posted by nevercalm at 9:54 AM on September 20, 2014 [4 favorites]
Video proof of the law of diminishing marginal utility of wealth.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:01 AM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:01 AM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm trying to imagine living in a world where it's important, to me or to someone I know, to pull out a New Thingy at a meeting and have everything stop dead because OMG is that the New Thingy?
posted by maxwelton at 10:03 AM on September 20, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 10:03 AM on September 20, 2014 [6 favorites]
Maybe the creepy part is filming the line.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 10:03 AM on September 20, 2014 [16 favorites]
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 10:03 AM on September 20, 2014 [16 favorites]
I dunno... I remember, way back in the 80s, camping out for 2 days to get tickets to see Prince's Purple Rain tour. The ticket line was a total party, and very friendly. People had their space, marked out with their stuff, and if they left to get food or whatever, they didn't lose their place in line. We were playing card and board games together and there was much boombox action happening, mostly Prince music.
I actually camped out for tickets for more than one concert, but Prince was the only one that required TWO DAYS of camping. Most of the time it only involved getting to the ticket line late at night / early in the morning before they went on sale.
The idea of queueing up for a lengthy amount of time to get things that you want isn't a new idea. The idea of queueing up for a product that basically isn't scarce, just requires time for more to be made, that is odd to me. Concert tickets are a finite resource -- a given venue only holds so many people. iPhones can continue to be made, and will continue to be made, until the next iteration of them is released.
posted by hippybear at 10:05 AM on September 20, 2014 [7 favorites]
I actually camped out for tickets for more than one concert, but Prince was the only one that required TWO DAYS of camping. Most of the time it only involved getting to the ticket line late at night / early in the morning before they went on sale.
The idea of queueing up for a lengthy amount of time to get things that you want isn't a new idea. The idea of queueing up for a product that basically isn't scarce, just requires time for more to be made, that is odd to me. Concert tickets are a finite resource -- a given venue only holds so many people. iPhones can continue to be made, and will continue to be made, until the next iteration of them is released.
posted by hippybear at 10:05 AM on September 20, 2014 [7 favorites]
I get a strong whiff of nostalgia off this project for a more innocent time, when Apple breadlines were composed of the right sort of people.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:07 AM on September 20, 2014 [35 favorites]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:07 AM on September 20, 2014 [35 favorites]
If Apple was being a theoretically rational economic actor, it would raise the price of the first batch of iPhones until there was just enough demand to meet the available supply.
Or individually negotiate each sale like a car dealership.
posted by XMLicious at 10:11 AM on September 20, 2014
Concert tickets are a finite resource -- a given venue only holds so many people
Even back in the '80s there were ways to get concert tickets without queuing. Tickets went on sale at 10:00am, my friend and I would be at the mall as soon as the doors opened and be at the customer service counter in the basement of the department store (which was a TicketMaster outlet) by 10:05 and have good seats and be out the door before people waiting in line somewhere even got inside. Work smarter, not harder.
posted by MikeMc at 10:12 AM on September 20, 2014
Even back in the '80s there were ways to get concert tickets without queuing. Tickets went on sale at 10:00am, my friend and I would be at the mall as soon as the doors opened and be at the customer service counter in the basement of the department store (which was a TicketMaster outlet) by 10:05 and have good seats and be out the door before people waiting in line somewhere even got inside. Work smarter, not harder.
posted by MikeMc at 10:12 AM on September 20, 2014
What you guys didn't see the cracked porcelain doll giggling and waiting in line?
posted by symbioid at 10:13 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by symbioid at 10:13 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
XMLicious: "Or individually negotiate each sale like a car dealership."
You're supposed to haggle!
posted by symbioid at 10:15 AM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
You're supposed to haggle!
posted by symbioid at 10:15 AM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
I love the filmakers tagline: i don't think this is a good way to do business.
Then: join my facebook twitter feed!
posted by valkane at 10:18 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
Then: join my facebook twitter feed!
posted by valkane at 10:18 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
gofargogo: "Maybe I'm dense, but I don't really see another way for Apple to release this product. It becomes available on a certain day, with as many as they can get in stores on that day...what else could they do?"
There's a hell of a lot they could do. Set up an advanced preorder system where consumers pay a premium online to receive the phone early by a certain date, for example. Encourage more online ordering by guaranteeing that online preorders arrive by a certain early date. Sell the phones in more retail locations, and take steps to publicize those locations.
nevercalm: "I dont understand what the problem is. It's not a food line. No one is starving, except perhaps the people who have so much time and need the money so badly as to wait in a line and get harassed by the NYPD like that for days and days on end."
That's entirely the problem.
posted by Old Man McKay at 10:20 AM on September 20, 2014 [5 favorites]
There's a hell of a lot they could do. Set up an advanced preorder system where consumers pay a premium online to receive the phone early by a certain date, for example. Encourage more online ordering by guaranteeing that online preorders arrive by a certain early date. Sell the phones in more retail locations, and take steps to publicize those locations.
nevercalm: "I dont understand what the problem is. It's not a food line. No one is starving, except perhaps the people who have so much time and need the money so badly as to wait in a line and get harassed by the NYPD like that for days and days on end."
That's entirely the problem.
posted by Old Man McKay at 10:20 AM on September 20, 2014 [5 favorites]
I bought my first two iPhones on launch day because I wanted to and they didn't sell them online. The horrific Texas heat and the hours spent waiting for the iPhone 3G had me promise myself never again. At least for those phone you had to go to a store since the did not take online orders.
I got my iPhone 4 in an Apple Store about 2 weeks after launch. No line. Took 10 minutes. I got my iPhone 5 the day after launch in the same Apple Store. The lead times on line huge. I was at the mall for something else and was shocked to see no line and the girl at the front saying there's phones.
I got my iPhone 6 yesterday without leaving my house after I preordered it last week. Much more civilized. Had I not gotten the golden ticket and here was lead times I would live.
There is that narrow window of time when iPhones can sell for multiples of the price Apple is selling them for (which everyone complains is too much already). I'm torn about the solution to solve the arbitrage. Simultaneously launching globally would help. Ultimately if there's someone that will pay $2000 for a $700 phone just to get it a few days later then this will continue.
One thing that is also benfcial to iPhone owners is there is a huge used market and iPhones have a high resale value. I sold my iPhone 3G to a guy in Mexico for $350 because it still has useful life and Telmex wasn't close to having 4G infrastructure in the rest of that phone's useful life.
posted by birdherder at 10:31 AM on September 20, 2014
I got my iPhone 4 in an Apple Store about 2 weeks after launch. No line. Took 10 minutes. I got my iPhone 5 the day after launch in the same Apple Store. The lead times on line huge. I was at the mall for something else and was shocked to see no line and the girl at the front saying there's phones.
I got my iPhone 6 yesterday without leaving my house after I preordered it last week. Much more civilized. Had I not gotten the golden ticket and here was lead times I would live.
There is that narrow window of time when iPhones can sell for multiples of the price Apple is selling them for (which everyone complains is too much already). I'm torn about the solution to solve the arbitrage. Simultaneously launching globally would help. Ultimately if there's someone that will pay $2000 for a $700 phone just to get it a few days later then this will continue.
One thing that is also benfcial to iPhone owners is there is a huge used market and iPhones have a high resale value. I sold my iPhone 3G to a guy in Mexico for $350 because it still has useful life and Telmex wasn't close to having 4G infrastructure in the rest of that phone's useful life.
posted by birdherder at 10:31 AM on September 20, 2014
This is even after the current model iPhones launch in China.
For what it's worth, I've been told by friends who know about this kind of thing that even when phones are available in China, people over there will pay a markup for the American version, because A. they believe that there's less chance that some Chinese governmental agency has slipped god knows what software in to it and B. it's a status symbol.
posted by Itaxpica at 10:33 AM on September 20, 2014 [4 favorites]
For what it's worth, I've been told by friends who know about this kind of thing that even when phones are available in China, people over there will pay a markup for the American version, because A. they believe that there's less chance that some Chinese governmental agency has slipped god knows what software in to it and B. it's a status symbol.
posted by Itaxpica at 10:33 AM on September 20, 2014 [4 favorites]
Even back in the '80s there were ways to get concert tickets without queuing.
That was entirely dependent on where you lived and what outlets were possible options.
By the late 80s, early 90s, the Dillards in my hometown did indeed become a TicketMaster outlet. And I did use that as an end-run around the ticket queue at the arena.
But in 1984, the only place one could get tickets for events at the arena where events took place was at the ticket window of the venue.
posted by hippybear at 10:42 AM on September 20, 2014
That was entirely dependent on where you lived and what outlets were possible options.
By the late 80s, early 90s, the Dillards in my hometown did indeed become a TicketMaster outlet. And I did use that as an end-run around the ticket queue at the arena.
But in 1984, the only place one could get tickets for events at the arena where events took place was at the ticket window of the venue.
posted by hippybear at 10:42 AM on September 20, 2014
Even more ways that scarce goods can be distributed:
- by random lottery
- by income (either richest first or poorest first)
- by education level (again, either most or least educated first)
- by class membership (royal family, then aristocrats, then old money, then new money, etc.)
- by ability to identify typefaces
- by divination
- by devoutness
- by number of Facebook friends
There are lots of ways you could do it. Apple has chosen the waiting-in-line method, but it takes just a bit of imagination to come up with more.
There's an undertone in the video that it should be done by something vaguely like class membership; letting "those kind of people" move into the exclusive first-to-buy-a-new Apple neighbourhood is bringing down property values.
posted by clawsoon at 10:42 AM on September 20, 2014 [5 favorites]
- by random lottery
- by income (either richest first or poorest first)
- by education level (again, either most or least educated first)
- by class membership (royal family, then aristocrats, then old money, then new money, etc.)
- by ability to identify typefaces
- by divination
- by devoutness
- by number of Facebook friends
There are lots of ways you could do it. Apple has chosen the waiting-in-line method, but it takes just a bit of imagination to come up with more.
There's an undertone in the video that it should be done by something vaguely like class membership; letting "those kind of people" move into the exclusive first-to-buy-a-new Apple neighbourhood is bringing down property values.
posted by clawsoon at 10:42 AM on September 20, 2014 [5 favorites]
I love how they focus on Asians (including humiliating a shy older woman at the very first). Jesus fuck.
More power to the black marketers. iPhones are all about conspicuous consumption after all the cornerstone of capitalism. They ain't lining up for a food bank.
posted by Nevin at 10:50 AM on September 20, 2014 [12 favorites]
More power to the black marketers. iPhones are all about conspicuous consumption after all the cornerstone of capitalism. They ain't lining up for a food bank.
posted by Nevin at 10:50 AM on September 20, 2014 [12 favorites]
The video itself didn't make me think of it as xenophobic, though the title and suggestion that this was all linked to the Chinese mafia seems like a stretch?
I really liked it. I thought that it tidily illustrated the dark side of consumer captialism and the side effects of the demand for a luxury good like this.
posted by thebigdeadwaltz at 11:14 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
I really liked it. I thought that it tidily illustrated the dark side of consumer captialism and the side effects of the demand for a luxury good like this.
posted by thebigdeadwaltz at 11:14 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm really trying to think of a way to describe what bugs me about this video without using the word "racist." But it feels so apt.
There's nothing wrong with waiting in line to buy something and then selling it.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:15 AM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
There's nothing wrong with waiting in line to buy something and then selling it.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:15 AM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
Not that I think it would change the line waiting and reselling much if at all, but I read that the new iPhones are not on sale in China because the Chinese regulators have not approved them for sale yet. China is an extremely important and lucrative market, if Apple could have started sales simultaneously they would have.
On a related note, my SO recently tried to get tickets for a local concert. As soon as the tickets went on sale the seated tickets were sold out and on stubhub for twice the price...
posted by inparticularity at 11:20 AM on September 20, 2014
On a related note, my SO recently tried to get tickets for a local concert. As soon as the tickets went on sale the seated tickets were sold out and on stubhub for twice the price...
posted by inparticularity at 11:20 AM on September 20, 2014
There's nothing wrong with waiting in line to buy something and then selling it.
Let me play Devil's Advocate for a minute, and suggest that people who don't like what's happening in the lines believe in something higher than capitalism: Love.
Staying in line for days is (or should be) an expression of love, so that the people who love it most get it first. Concert scalpers and iPhone resellers reduce the queuing mechanism from the higher value of love back down to grubby capitalism.
posted by clawsoon at 11:23 AM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
Let me play Devil's Advocate for a minute, and suggest that people who don't like what's happening in the lines believe in something higher than capitalism: Love.
Staying in line for days is (or should be) an expression of love, so that the people who love it most get it first. Concert scalpers and iPhone resellers reduce the queuing mechanism from the higher value of love back down to grubby capitalism.
posted by clawsoon at 11:23 AM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
The only creepy thing about this was the cops.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:24 AM on September 20, 2014 [12 favorites]
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:24 AM on September 20, 2014 [12 favorites]
kurosawa's pal expressed it better than I did. It is thinly veiled xenophobia and an expression of "these are not the right people" queuing for the item in question. I'd warrant that the tone would have been different if it was a line of geeky hipsters or parents queuing for toys for their kids.
posted by arcticseal at 11:30 AM on September 20, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by arcticseal at 11:30 AM on September 20, 2014 [7 favorites]
Old Man McKay wrote: I didn't sense xenophobia in this video. Instead, what I saw was a video lamenting how people are being exploited. [...] Why would Apple continue to use a system that so clearly results in people being exploited? And exploited so openly?
I get that you genuinely had this reaction, but I don't see it holding water when waiting in line for three days is meant to be legible simultaneously as exploitation (if getting paid) or as the healthy sign of a super-fan (if genuinely enthusiastic for this new consumer product?).
I suppose if you're making this argument then the problem for Apple is that it recodes the actions of their truly fervent line-waiting fans as itself already exploitative, Apple exploiting its fanatics, making them wait in line for three days, whether in exchange for the new bauble they've been convinced they want that badly or in exchange for a month's rent.
posted by nobody at 11:31 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
I get that you genuinely had this reaction, but I don't see it holding water when waiting in line for three days is meant to be legible simultaneously as exploitation (if getting paid) or as the healthy sign of a super-fan (if genuinely enthusiastic for this new consumer product?).
I suppose if you're making this argument then the problem for Apple is that it recodes the actions of their truly fervent line-waiting fans as itself already exploitative, Apple exploiting its fanatics, making them wait in line for three days, whether in exchange for the new bauble they've been convinced they want that badly or in exchange for a month's rent.
posted by nobody at 11:31 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
The scarcity here isn't supply in New York, it's a global supply. It's importing the hot new phone to China, where release of the phone is delayed. Interestingly, it seems to be Chinese regulation that's delaying the import, not Apple's choice. (Contrast to movies or video games, where staggered global releases are part of business.)
China regularly interferes with international high-tech commerce. Sometimes it's political, but most of it seems to be good ol' fashioned trade protectionism. Particularly ironic given so much of Apple's manufacturing process is in China.
Everyone in the US I know just orders online. Apple does a fantastic job shipping pre-orders on new hardware so they arrive on release day.
As for the video, this is a lovely bit of anti-consumer culture jamming. Up there with AdBusters and Buy Nothing Day. Apple choreographs these silly lines for release day hype. Well, here's the flip side of that consumer exuberance. See also this photo of a Best Buy crowd buying an iPhone. The man featured in the red shirt is reportedly a Verizon rep.
posted by Nelson at 11:37 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
China regularly interferes with international high-tech commerce. Sometimes it's political, but most of it seems to be good ol' fashioned trade protectionism. Particularly ironic given so much of Apple's manufacturing process is in China.
Everyone in the US I know just orders online. Apple does a fantastic job shipping pre-orders on new hardware so they arrive on release day.
As for the video, this is a lovely bit of anti-consumer culture jamming. Up there with AdBusters and Buy Nothing Day. Apple choreographs these silly lines for release day hype. Well, here's the flip side of that consumer exuberance. See also this photo of a Best Buy crowd buying an iPhone. The man featured in the red shirt is reportedly a Verizon rep.
posted by Nelson at 11:37 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
nobody: I suppose if you're making this argument then the problem for Apple is that it recodes the actions of their truly fervent line-waiting fans as itself already exploitative, Apple exploiting its fanatics, making them wait in line for three days
But how do you measure the true depth of love other than by demonstrated willingness to sacrifice?
posted by clawsoon at 11:44 AM on September 20, 2014
But how do you measure the true depth of love other than by demonstrated willingness to sacrifice?
posted by clawsoon at 11:44 AM on September 20, 2014
nobody: "I suppose if you're making this argument then the problem for Apple is that it recodes the actions of their truly fervent line-waiting fans as itself already exploitative, Apple exploiting its fanatics, making them wait in line for three days, whether in exchange for the new bauble they've been convinced they want that badly or in exchange for a month's rent."
I would agree with that entirely.
They could do away with the "wait in line" rollout almost entirely if they wanted to. It's 2014. They choose not to, and they do so for a reason.
posted by Old Man McKay at 12:18 PM on September 20, 2014
I would agree with that entirely.
They could do away with the "wait in line" rollout almost entirely if they wanted to. It's 2014. They choose not to, and they do so for a reason.
posted by Old Man McKay at 12:18 PM on September 20, 2014
A relative bought an apartment in Hawaii, coveted high rise at a beach location. She said that people queued for days to draw a number and get the option to buy. And yes, some people employed homeless people to sleep there in their stead.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:29 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Omnomnom at 12:29 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I think that's what bothers me about it. Some rich guy hired someone to wait in line for something. They didn't have to put anything else out there but money.
It was the same thing with scalpers and high demand concert tickets. You knew the system was rigged against you because people were buying them for resale and they'd get the front rows, they'd get the best seats.
posted by inturnaround at 12:33 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
It was the same thing with scalpers and high demand concert tickets. You knew the system was rigged against you because people were buying them for resale and they'd get the front rows, they'd get the best seats.
posted by inturnaround at 12:33 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
Really there should just be an auction process. New iPhones start at $2,000 until those sell out. Price gradually decreases until supply meets demand. As it stands now, Apple is leaving a lot of money on the table. But that would probably hurt Apple's carefully cultivated brand.
Another option would be a VIP program: spend $3,000 on Apple products in a calendar year, you accumulate points and are guaranteed a phone within the first round. $5,000 and they overnight it directly to you or whatever.
posted by 2bucksplus at 1:00 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
Another option would be a VIP program: spend $3,000 on Apple products in a calendar year, you accumulate points and are guaranteed a phone within the first round. $5,000 and they overnight it directly to you or whatever.
posted by 2bucksplus at 1:00 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm always puzzled who the people waiting in line for days are. If you're a hardcore Apple fan, you ordered your iPhone online first thing last Friday and had it delivered to your door yesterday. There's absolutely no need to go to the store.
posted by grahamparks at 1:08 PM on September 20, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by grahamparks at 1:08 PM on September 20, 2014 [4 favorites]
Itaxpica: "even when phones are available in China, people over there will pay a markup for the American version, because A. they believe that there's less chance that some Chinese governmental agency has slipped god knows what software in to it"
It's just so cute the way the Chinese would rather have NSA bugs than homegrown ones!
posted by chavenet at 1:26 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's just so cute the way the Chinese would rather have NSA bugs than homegrown ones!
posted by chavenet at 1:26 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm always puzzled who the people waiting in line for days are.
Yeah, as long as Apple also allows you to order the damned iPhone from the website and have it delivered to you without leaving your house, I don't understand why they should be expected to be upset about this, except perhaps from a PR standpoint. What are the options? Refuse to accept cash for an iPhone? Refuse to sell iPhones in stores? I mean, the very best thing to do to ensure equitable distribution of the things would be to ramp up the supply chain and wait until there is enough stock to meet demand worldwide before announcing new hardware and putting it on sale, but I guess that won't work because Apple reasons. Anything else they do would be exclusionary by definition, and I'm not seeing compelling enough evidence of harm here — what, a few Apple fans won't be able to get the new iteration of their favorite phone on day one because poor people have the opportunity to make a few bucks by getting in line ahead of them? — to indicate that this Issue Needs to Be Addressed.
posted by Mothlight at 1:42 PM on September 20, 2014
Yeah, as long as Apple also allows you to order the damned iPhone from the website and have it delivered to you without leaving your house, I don't understand why they should be expected to be upset about this, except perhaps from a PR standpoint. What are the options? Refuse to accept cash for an iPhone? Refuse to sell iPhones in stores? I mean, the very best thing to do to ensure equitable distribution of the things would be to ramp up the supply chain and wait until there is enough stock to meet demand worldwide before announcing new hardware and putting it on sale, but I guess that won't work because Apple reasons. Anything else they do would be exclusionary by definition, and I'm not seeing compelling enough evidence of harm here — what, a few Apple fans won't be able to get the new iteration of their favorite phone on day one because poor people have the opportunity to make a few bucks by getting in line ahead of them? — to indicate that this Issue Needs to Be Addressed.
posted by Mothlight at 1:42 PM on September 20, 2014
Derail: I waited in line overnight for the premiere of a Star Wars movie (no, I will not say which one), believing (as it turns out, wrongly), that there would be continuity of quality from any preceding movie in the series. Oh, to be so young and so wrong. /derail
Back to the thread: ethics are a moving target, and no set of ethics can be universal, especially when you're in some kind of need, and the inconvenience of the effort to grab that brass ring gets trumped by the far-ranging impact of getting that prize.
posted by datawrangler at 1:43 PM on September 20, 2014
Back to the thread: ethics are a moving target, and no set of ethics can be universal, especially when you're in some kind of need, and the inconvenience of the effort to grab that brass ring gets trumped by the far-ranging impact of getting that prize.
posted by datawrangler at 1:43 PM on September 20, 2014
People wait in line sometimes. The cops are the only obvious problem in this video.
posted by oceanjesse at 1:47 PM on September 20, 2014
posted by oceanjesse at 1:47 PM on September 20, 2014
I don't really get how this re-sale ring stuff works other than people are bad at buying things. An iPhone costs X dollars, to make this profitable the people in line must pay $X, then the street re-sellers need to pay at least $X+1, then turn around and sell it for $X+2. I doubt they work on such thin margins tho. I could almost see paying $X+2 for a certain amount of convenience, but no one should ever pay $(2)X or $(4)X for something that costs $X.
posted by MrBobaFett at 1:50 PM on September 20, 2014
posted by MrBobaFett at 1:50 PM on September 20, 2014
Totally a thing. Was like this on the line at the Upper West Side store today. They're gonna make a killing! Some ladies had to be talked to because they started pushing ;)
posted by ReeMonster at 1:59 PM on September 20, 2014
posted by ReeMonster at 1:59 PM on September 20, 2014
It's just so cute the way the Chinese would rather have NSA bugs than homegrown ones!
Say what you will about the NSA, but at least they tend not to arrest people for googling Tiananmin Square.
posted by Itaxpica at 2:19 PM on September 20, 2014
Say what you will about the NSA, but at least they tend not to arrest people for googling Tiananmin Square.
posted by Itaxpica at 2:19 PM on September 20, 2014
I don't really get how this re-sale ring stuff works other than people are bad at buying things.
A rich kid in China wants to own an iPhone 6+ a few months before everyone else in his/her circle of rich friends does. That's about it. Paying $3000-$5000 to have one flown in from the USA where everyone involved makes 100% profit? It's probably pocket change to them.
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:22 PM on September 20, 2014
A rich kid in China wants to own an iPhone 6+ a few months before everyone else in his/her circle of rich friends does. That's about it. Paying $3000-$5000 to have one flown in from the USA where everyone involved makes 100% profit? It's probably pocket change to them.
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:22 PM on September 20, 2014
The title of the clip is "iPhone 6 Lines and the Chinese Mafia".
I saw the too earlier. But when I came back to the YouTube video just now I see it is called: "Black Market Takes Over iPhone 6 Lines."
But having people try and resale always reminds me of this story from the original iPhone launch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BiQhNKVgzQ
posted by birdherder at 2:43 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
I saw the too earlier. But when I came back to the YouTube video just now I see it is called: "Black Market Takes Over iPhone 6 Lines."
But having people try and resale always reminds me of this story from the original iPhone launch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BiQhNKVgzQ
posted by birdherder at 2:43 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
Even back in the '80s there were ways to get concert tickets without queuing. [e.g. TicketMaster]
No lines at TicketMaster? Perhaps you were purchasing tickets for a band that sucked?
Springsteen, The River tour, 1980-81. I waited all night outside a mall in Kankakee, IL several times to be one of the first in line at the Sears TicketMaster. The shows sold-out in minutes. (20th and 25th row at the Chicago Uptown Theater, 8th row at the Horizon, and lesser seats in other venues)
posted by she's not there at 2:56 PM on September 20, 2014
No lines at TicketMaster? Perhaps you were purchasing tickets for a band that sucked?
Springsteen, The River tour, 1980-81. I waited all night outside a mall in Kankakee, IL several times to be one of the first in line at the Sears TicketMaster. The shows sold-out in minutes. (20th and 25th row at the Chicago Uptown Theater, 8th row at the Horizon, and lesser seats in other venues)
posted by she's not there at 2:56 PM on September 20, 2014
The title of the clip is "iPhone 6 Lines and the Chinese Mafia".
I saw the too earlier. But when I came back to the YouTube video just now I see it is called: "Black Market Takes Over iPhone 6 Lines."
But a more accurate title would have been 'The people in the queue told us nothing of interest so we implied they were up to no good' or alternatively 'we suck at documentaries'.
posted by biffa at 2:58 PM on September 20, 2014 [8 favorites]
I saw the too earlier. But when I came back to the YouTube video just now I see it is called: "Black Market Takes Over iPhone 6 Lines."
But a more accurate title would have been 'The people in the queue told us nothing of interest so we implied they were up to no good' or alternatively 'we suck at documentaries'.
posted by biffa at 2:58 PM on September 20, 2014 [8 favorites]
Oh no, these lines full of poor Chinese immigrants are reminding me too much of how iPhones are produced and it's ruining my day and tainting the image of the products I fetishize. Just go away, creeps.
posted by ChuckRamone at 3:42 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by ChuckRamone at 3:42 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
I feel like maybe the only exploitation going on here of human beings is being done by the filmmaker?
Also, holy crap, people are shockingly willing to ascribe conspiracy theories to Apple in order to apparently avoid having to consider the possibility that people just really like the stuff they make. As though not raising the price to the highest point the market could bear, keeping MSRP consistent despite definitely selling out, is a shortcoming.
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:50 PM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
Also, holy crap, people are shockingly willing to ascribe conspiracy theories to Apple in order to apparently avoid having to consider the possibility that people just really like the stuff they make. As though not raising the price to the highest point the market could bear, keeping MSRP consistent despite definitely selling out, is a shortcoming.
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:50 PM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
As though not raising the price to the highest point the market could bear, keeping MSRP consistent despite definitely selling out, is a shortcoming.
It's a shortcoming for standard economic theory, not for insanely profitable Apple.
posted by clawsoon at 4:31 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's a shortcoming for standard economic theory, not for insanely profitable Apple.
posted by clawsoon at 4:31 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
I think the idea of banning Asians from purchasing iphones is pretty abhorrent, no?
posted by jenkinsEar at 5:24 PM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by jenkinsEar at 5:24 PM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
I think the idea of banning Asians from purchasing iphones is pretty abhorrent, no?
And not something I've seen anyone mention. What I would suggest is that, on launch day, sales be limited to one per person and that they not start the unlocked sales until they can service the customers of those who have a contract with a provider.
posted by inturnaround at 5:31 PM on September 20, 2014
And not something I've seen anyone mention. What I would suggest is that, on launch day, sales be limited to one per person and that they not start the unlocked sales until they can service the customers of those who have a contract with a provider.
posted by inturnaround at 5:31 PM on September 20, 2014
inturnaround: until they can service the customers of those who have a contract with a provider.
Further entrenching the bullshit subsidized phone / more expensive plan model. No thanks.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:32 PM on September 20, 2014 [6 favorites]
Further entrenching the bullshit subsidized phone / more expensive plan model. No thanks.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:32 PM on September 20, 2014 [6 favorites]
What I would suggest is that, on launch day, sales be limited to one per person...
I think they should go for the name-the-typeface quiz, m'self. If you pronounce "Trajan" incorrectly, you're automatically out of the running.
I can't remember which pronunciation is the correct one, but thankfully I'm not interested in an iPhone.
posted by clawsoon at 5:37 PM on September 20, 2014
I think they should go for the name-the-typeface quiz, m'self. If you pronounce "Trajan" incorrectly, you're automatically out of the running.
I can't remember which pronunciation is the correct one, but thankfully I'm not interested in an iPhone.
posted by clawsoon at 5:37 PM on September 20, 2014
Apple isn't selling unlocked iPhone 6 models officially yet. They usually release an unlocked model a while after the launch. For example with the 5S unlocked models weren't released until November 2013.
There are T-Mobile models available at full unsubsidized price but AFAIK they are still locked to T-Mobile.
posted by zsazsa at 5:43 PM on September 20, 2014
There are T-Mobile models available at full unsubsidized price but AFAIK they are still locked to T-Mobile.
posted by zsazsa at 5:43 PM on September 20, 2014
"No lines at TicketMaster? Perhaps you were purchasing tickets for a band that sucked? "
Nah, you just have to know the right store. We used to go to Boston Store (Carson Pirie Scott for those in N. Illinois) at an old mall. I don't think many people knew it sold tickets or where the counter was (in the basement). Friends of mind still do this, they drive out to a Piggly Wiggly grocery store in Richfield, WI (a ruralish town about a half hour from Milwaukee) and hit the customer service desk at 9:59. I didn't know Piggly Wiggly had a TicketMaster until they told me.
posted by MikeMc at 5:43 PM on September 20, 2014
Nah, you just have to know the right store. We used to go to Boston Store (Carson Pirie Scott for those in N. Illinois) at an old mall. I don't think many people knew it sold tickets or where the counter was (in the basement). Friends of mind still do this, they drive out to a Piggly Wiggly grocery store in Richfield, WI (a ruralish town about a half hour from Milwaukee) and hit the customer service desk at 9:59. I didn't know Piggly Wiggly had a TicketMaster until they told me.
posted by MikeMc at 5:43 PM on September 20, 2014
My unlocked iPhone 6 plus isn't going to arrive until around October 11th. I ordered on launch day. Does this mean I would have been able to get my hands on some unlocked hotness by now if I had slept on some cardboard out in Fuquay-Varina?
posted by oceanjesse at 6:01 PM on September 20, 2014
posted by oceanjesse at 6:01 PM on September 20, 2014
Wow. This video is a Rorschach test. We're all seeing something different. Which is an interesting approach by Neistat - not having an apparent thesis, just letting us interpret things.
posted by entropone at 6:01 PM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by entropone at 6:01 PM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
Also, I can't imagine this video having a title of 'white people mafia%' if it was a bunch of white people in line.
posted by oceanjesse at 6:04 PM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by oceanjesse at 6:04 PM on September 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
I think some of the criticism directed at Apple in this thread is very strange. Let’s say Apple changes its price structure of iPhones -- so that it charges 4X the first day of availability, 3X the first week, 2X the first month, and X thereafter. This is going to have some pretty weird effects. One of them will be a significant PR loss for Apple (“Apple cares more about the rich than the rest of us!”), which could lead to a backlash/brand damage/reduced sales. I suspect that’s a significant reason why they don’t do the variable pricing that some posters here want them to. The egalitarian/”democratic” pricing for everyone is presumably worth it to Apple. Apple has a lot of smart guys who work for it & they've chosen to discard the surplus profit they could conceivably reap; the idea that they're just too stupid to capture it is a bit silly.
I appreciate that some people find secondary markets (buying a good to resell it) disquieting. These things depend on your political views and how you understand the world. I think people who create and provide secondary markets are performing a service for others. Others think that people who create and provide secondary markets are creating additional costs, sucking value out of the economy, exploiting others, etc. I find that opposing set of views to be very unsophisticated (look, if I want to see a concert and it's sold out, my view is that ticket brokers make life better for people generally), but God knows there are plenty of people with views I don't like.
I hope those poor bastards who spent the night outside made out like bandits. My guess is that they got a couple of hundred dollars each out of the deal; my guess is that most of them needed the money. This video memorializes a remarkable thing: all of the people pictured in this video, with the exception of the cops, are quite literally serving one another.
posted by Mr. Justice at 6:47 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
I appreciate that some people find secondary markets (buying a good to resell it) disquieting. These things depend on your political views and how you understand the world. I think people who create and provide secondary markets are performing a service for others. Others think that people who create and provide secondary markets are creating additional costs, sucking value out of the economy, exploiting others, etc. I find that opposing set of views to be very unsophisticated (look, if I want to see a concert and it's sold out, my view is that ticket brokers make life better for people generally), but God knows there are plenty of people with views I don't like.
I hope those poor bastards who spent the night outside made out like bandits. My guess is that they got a couple of hundred dollars each out of the deal; my guess is that most of them needed the money. This video memorializes a remarkable thing: all of the people pictured in this video, with the exception of the cops, are quite literally serving one another.
posted by Mr. Justice at 6:47 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
Not that I think it would change the line waiting and reselling much if at all, but I read that the new iPhones are not on sale in China because the Chinese regulators have not approved them for sale yet. China is an extremely important and lucrative market, if Apple could have started sales simultaneously they would have.
This is basically it. The Chinese government sets the launch day of the iPhone in China, not Apple.
The real question boils down to: why are people queuing when they could pre-order and get their iPhones delivered at home? Answers boil down to
* ignorance
* preference
* lack of secure mail address
My guess is mostly ignorance and/or not having an address - which might be because they are undocumented or because they are working all the time and are worried about things being pilfered from their mailbox/doorstep/whatever. But then the hand-off usually seemed to involve someone who seemed pretty well-heeled, so maybe they have totally different reasons for keeping their address private.
Different pressures might be at work in the US. We had a similar phenomenon going on last week in Sydney, so I have some local bias.
posted by um at 6:48 PM on September 20, 2014
This is basically it. The Chinese government sets the launch day of the iPhone in China, not Apple.
The real question boils down to: why are people queuing when they could pre-order and get their iPhones delivered at home? Answers boil down to
* ignorance
* preference
* lack of secure mail address
My guess is mostly ignorance and/or not having an address - which might be because they are undocumented or because they are working all the time and are worried about things being pilfered from their mailbox/doorstep/whatever. But then the hand-off usually seemed to involve someone who seemed pretty well-heeled, so maybe they have totally different reasons for keeping their address private.
Different pressures might be at work in the US. We had a similar phenomenon going on last week in Sydney, so I have some local bias.
posted by um at 6:48 PM on September 20, 2014
The most interesting part of the video to me was seeing the Apple Store employees, pumped up for selling the new iPhones to the true devoted fans, dealing with who was actually in line.
posted by smackfu at 7:35 PM on September 20, 2014
posted by smackfu at 7:35 PM on September 20, 2014
I do not miss the NYPD.
As to "they wouldn't say white people mafia," that's because there would be nothing unusual about a line of white people in SoHo or on the Upper West Side.
posted by El Mariachi at 7:57 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
As to "they wouldn't say white people mafia," that's because there would be nothing unusual about a line of white people in SoHo or on the Upper West Side.
posted by El Mariachi at 7:57 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
MikeMc - thanks for the info - I would appreciate it if you didn't tell anyone else.
I struck out the last couple of times I tried to buy tickets over the phone/online. The next time Bruce tours, I might make the trip to that Piggly Wiggly, so I'd like to keep the exact location a secret.
posted by she's not there at 8:09 PM on September 20, 2014
I struck out the last couple of times I tried to buy tickets over the phone/online. The next time Bruce tours, I might make the trip to that Piggly Wiggly, so I'd like to keep the exact location a secret.
posted by she's not there at 8:09 PM on September 20, 2014
Also, I can't imagine this video having a title of 'white people mafia%' if it was a bunch of white people in line.
You know, when you say "mafia" I'm pretty certain nobody thinks Swedes, Germans and the Scottish.
Stop trying to horn in on our turf. Don't make me have to stab you!
Uh, Sicilian Heritage Month!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:12 PM on September 20, 2014
You know, when you say "mafia" I'm pretty certain nobody thinks Swedes, Germans and the Scottish.
Stop trying to horn in on our turf. Don't make me have to stab you!
Uh, Sicilian Heritage Month!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:12 PM on September 20, 2014
My favorite part was when the Apple employees tried to get people to clap and cheer when the doors first opened.
My least favorite part was the NYPD who are generally my least favorite part of anything.
posted by willie11 at 8:18 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
My least favorite part was the NYPD who are generally my least favorite part of anything.
posted by willie11 at 8:18 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
This video is a Rorschach test.
A Rorschach test to explain the title change from "iPhone 6 Lines and the Chinese Mafia" to "Black Market Takes Over iPhone 6 Lines" should be an easy A. One would hope.
posted by Wallace Shawn at 8:26 PM on September 20, 2014
A Rorschach test to explain the title change from "iPhone 6 Lines and the Chinese Mafia" to "Black Market Takes Over iPhone 6 Lines" should be an easy A. One would hope.
posted by Wallace Shawn at 8:26 PM on September 20, 2014
Wow, lots of folks looking at this through shit-coloured glasses today. To me (ignoring the overblown and withdrawn Chinese Mafia heading) it was largely a nostalgic video, lamenting the loss of joy and cheer from this annual circus. First few couple of years the lines were peppered with people who actually wanted the phones *as phones*, but now those in line are seemingly indifferent to the product, and are there to earn a crust. Good for them, but --like scalping for tickets-- it really sucks the life out of the process, and severs the arteries of standard feel-good-laughing-at-the-idiots-who-wait-in-line-for-days stories. Laugh at the folk who stood in the original lines all you like, but they (and the B-list celebrities who would show up and/or interview them for their websites) had some fun waiting in line, and were imbued with a narrowly targetted excitement that's just evaporated from the lines you see now.
This isn't restricted to the US, it's exactly the same phenomenon here in Australia. There's just no reason for those without connections outside the country to purchase via the first-day line at an Apple store, except in some forlorn hope of being a part of what's already dead, like bouncing up and down on some sad old jumpy castle that's suffered an irreparable puncture.
posted by pjm at 8:28 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
This isn't restricted to the US, it's exactly the same phenomenon here in Australia. There's just no reason for those without connections outside the country to purchase via the first-day line at an Apple store, except in some forlorn hope of being a part of what's already dead, like bouncing up and down on some sad old jumpy castle that's suffered an irreparable puncture.
posted by pjm at 8:28 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
In the meantime, people queued all over Australia at Apple stores, ignoring the fact that mobile phone stores had them in stock with next to no queues. Also, the first person in the world to own an iPhone 6? Dropped it on the concrete before even turning it on.
posted by dg at 8:32 PM on September 20, 2014
posted by dg at 8:32 PM on September 20, 2014
buying iDevices before a trip to Asia is a good way to pay for your ticket. You don't even have to be first. Just get it before it's released in Asia and sell it there.
posted by grubby at 9:40 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by grubby at 9:40 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
Funny, in all the news photos I saw of lines (and the very fact that newspapers and TV are spending so much time on this is ridiculous), what stood out this time compared to others in the past is how grungy many people looked. I mean really kind of rough. Nary a stereotypical suburbanite to be found, even out here in suburbia.And why people have to stand in line for days and can't wait for a few more to have one shipped is absolutely incomprehensible to me.
posted by etaoin at 9:56 PM on September 20, 2014
posted by etaoin at 9:56 PM on September 20, 2014
Unless it's for something that will save your life, why would anyone ever spend days in a line on a sidewalk being harassed by over zealous morons like those cops? I've never understood fashion, and I'm glad I don't.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:20 PM on September 20, 2014
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:20 PM on September 20, 2014
Unless it's for something that will save your life, why would anyone ever spend days in a line on a sidewalk being harassed by over zealous morons like those cops? I've never understood fashion, and I'm glad I don't.Perhaps they should just stay home and eat cake.
posted by fullerine at 2:44 AM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
You can be sure that if there was a way to have 100 million new iPhones available to sell on launch day, Tim Cook would do it.
And such is the quality of their design and manufacturing process that he could be almost certain that 100 million phones didn't all have this one uncaught defect. Almost.
I'm about due to update my iPhone, but inclined to wait a few months to make sure they didn't mess up like they did with the oleophobic coating on some of the first run of iPads, which I got hit with. That wasn't especially serious but the next one might be. (Also I'm considering making the jump to Android, but that's a little OT.)
posted by George_Spiggott at 4:50 AM on September 21, 2014
And such is the quality of their design and manufacturing process that he could be almost certain that 100 million phones didn't all have this one uncaught defect. Almost.
I'm about due to update my iPhone, but inclined to wait a few months to make sure they didn't mess up like they did with the oleophobic coating on some of the first run of iPads, which I got hit with. That wasn't especially serious but the next one might be. (Also I'm considering making the jump to Android, but that's a little OT.)
posted by George_Spiggott at 4:50 AM on September 21, 2014
There are lots of ways you could do it. Apple has chosen the waiting-in-line method, but it takes just a bit of imagination to come up with more.
Apple didn't choose bupkis. Idiot consumers who can't stand to not have the new shiny thing first chose the standing-in-line method. See also: Harry Potter fans waiting in line when a new volume is released.
Trying to insert some nefarious intent on Apple's part is just asinine.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:18 AM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
Apple didn't choose bupkis. Idiot consumers who can't stand to not have the new shiny thing first chose the standing-in-line method. See also: Harry Potter fans waiting in line when a new volume is released.
Trying to insert some nefarious intent on Apple's part is just asinine.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:18 AM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
Staying in line for days is (or should be) an expression of love
The love of iPhones is the root of much queueing.
posted by sfenders at 5:18 AM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
The love of iPhones is the root of much queueing.
posted by sfenders at 5:18 AM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
I think it would have been a better film without the arresting bit. It was like a dramatic thing that was included because it was dramatic, but without knowing the backstory, what's the point?
posted by smackfu at 6:31 AM on September 21, 2014
posted by smackfu at 6:31 AM on September 21, 2014
Maybe the actual issue is that normally, when lots of people work long hours doing boring and unsatisfying jobs to make precariously small amounts of money, they are invisible and not standing in big groups on the sidewalk.
posted by emilyw at 7:59 AM on September 21, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by emilyw at 7:59 AM on September 21, 2014 [3 favorites]
Idiot consumers who can't stand to not have the new shiny thing first chose the standing-in-line method.
Did you watch the video in this thread? The one we're discussing? The one showing many people buying phones to resell them? Not "idiot consumers" wanting to "have the shiny new thing", but rather people living on the margins in the US trying to make a couple hundred bucks? That's the phenomenon we're talking about, the one depicted here, in this video we're discussing.
posted by Nelson at 8:09 AM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
Did you watch the video in this thread? The one we're discussing? The one showing many people buying phones to resell them? Not "idiot consumers" wanting to "have the shiny new thing", but rather people living on the margins in the US trying to make a couple hundred bucks? That's the phenomenon we're talking about, the one depicted here, in this video we're discussing.
posted by Nelson at 8:09 AM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
Wow. This video is a Rorschach test. We're all seeing something different. Which is an interesting approach by Neistat - not having an apparent thesis, just letting us interpret things.
This video is hardly an objective piece. It's filmed and edited in a way that tells the story of people waiting in line to get phones for the "Chinese mafia."
posted by ChuckRamone at 8:22 AM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
This video is hardly an objective piece. It's filmed and edited in a way that tells the story of people waiting in line to get phones for the "Chinese mafia."
posted by ChuckRamone at 8:22 AM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm Chinese (though born in Taiwan), and the video made me ambivalent. I don't think it's primarily racism that motivates the filmmaker, as I've seen some of his old iPhone line videos and they were kind of shot in the same documentary style. But I do think this year's do come off a little that way, and I do wonder if he did some editing to make it look like a whole line was full of Chinese immigrants.
The huge stacks of cash part does give me pause though. I read an article today in the NYT about Chinese buying nice houses in Seattle, which reflects previous trends of Chinese buying nice houses in LA/OC or SF. Nearly all the times these transactions are done completely in cash, and it's being accepted without any questions. There are legitimate reasons to transact only in cash, especially since it's difficult to move money out of the Chinese banking system, but there are just as much illegitimate reasons that corrupt business people or Communist officials would want to find some way to launder their money. The iphone thing did get the conspiratorial side of me to think that it's being used as another sinkhole for cash, but who knows?
posted by FJT at 1:37 PM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
The huge stacks of cash part does give me pause though. I read an article today in the NYT about Chinese buying nice houses in Seattle, which reflects previous trends of Chinese buying nice houses in LA/OC or SF. Nearly all the times these transactions are done completely in cash, and it's being accepted without any questions. There are legitimate reasons to transact only in cash, especially since it's difficult to move money out of the Chinese banking system, but there are just as much illegitimate reasons that corrupt business people or Communist officials would want to find some way to launder their money. The iphone thing did get the conspiratorial side of me to think that it's being used as another sinkhole for cash, but who knows?
posted by FJT at 1:37 PM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
The iphone thing did get the conspiratorial side of me to think that it's being used as another sinkhole for cash, but who knows?
In their revised rounded-edged shape, new iPhones do look remarkably like ingots, particularly in the gold and silver versions. Someone needs to do a video of someone buying a yacht with a stacks of them, or pushing them across the baccarat table in a Monte Carlo casino.
posted by George_Spiggott at 1:47 PM on September 21, 2014
In their revised rounded-edged shape, new iPhones do look remarkably like ingots, particularly in the gold and silver versions. Someone needs to do a video of someone buying a yacht with a stacks of them, or pushing them across the baccarat table in a Monte Carlo casino.
posted by George_Spiggott at 1:47 PM on September 21, 2014
There are legitimate reasons to transact only in cash, but ...
What else are you supposed to use to pay the destitute stranger, who may or may not be giving a cut to a mafia-like organization that may or may not be Chinese, to sleep on the street so you can get a phone two days sooner than otherwise? A bag of iPods? Kruggerands? An iCredit transaction? Anyway, if you're buying anything less expensive than a new car, there's no reason not to use cash; that's what it's for.
posted by sfenders at 3:05 PM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
What else are you supposed to use to pay the destitute stranger, who may or may not be giving a cut to a mafia-like organization that may or may not be Chinese, to sleep on the street so you can get a phone two days sooner than otherwise? A bag of iPods? Kruggerands? An iCredit transaction? Anyway, if you're buying anything less expensive than a new car, there's no reason not to use cash; that's what it's for.
posted by sfenders at 3:05 PM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
A Glum Sign for Apple in China, as Smuggled iPhones Go Begging:
HONG KONG — When Apple’s latest iPhones went on sale this month in Hong Kong, Singapore and New York, among the hip urbanites and tech-obsessed was another group clamoring for the devices: Chinese scalpers looking to make a premium by flipping the phones to smugglers.
But the gray market for the new iPhones has already dried up, even though they will not officially go on sale in China for a few weeks, at the earliest.
Wholesalers who helped orchestrate the smuggling of tens of thousands of the phones into the country are now slashing prices to move inventory. At an electronics market in central Beijing, one retailer was recently selling the low-end iPhone 6 and 6 Plus for 6,500 renminbi to 8,800 renminbi ($1,060 to $1,436), down from 12,000 renminbi to 15,000 renminbi ($1,960 to $2,450) just after the release.
posted by Toekneesan at 2:41 AM on September 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
HONG KONG — When Apple’s latest iPhones went on sale this month in Hong Kong, Singapore and New York, among the hip urbanites and tech-obsessed was another group clamoring for the devices: Chinese scalpers looking to make a premium by flipping the phones to smugglers.
But the gray market for the new iPhones has already dried up, even though they will not officially go on sale in China for a few weeks, at the earliest.
Wholesalers who helped orchestrate the smuggling of tens of thousands of the phones into the country are now slashing prices to move inventory. At an electronics market in central Beijing, one retailer was recently selling the low-end iPhone 6 and 6 Plus for 6,500 renminbi to 8,800 renminbi ($1,060 to $1,436), down from 12,000 renminbi to 15,000 renminbi ($1,960 to $2,450) just after the release.
posted by Toekneesan at 2:41 AM on September 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
I dunno how glum a sign it is. There have probably always been only a small number of people every year willing to pay the steep premium to have it first. Now the grey market supply is saturated and the official release is happening soon enough that the remaining prospective buyers are willing to wait.
Early adopter sales are rarely a good indicator of long-term success. The iPhone 6+ sold out before the 6 on the first day, but there have been a lot of stories of 6+ early adopters returning their phones because they're too large. I'm guessing that the 6+ sells better among people who can't try before buying and the 6 sells better among people who are able to handle each of them, and since so many phone sales are done in-person, the 6 will overtake the 6+ in sales.
posted by ardgedee at 3:28 AM on September 29, 2014
Early adopter sales are rarely a good indicator of long-term success. The iPhone 6+ sold out before the 6 on the first day, but there have been a lot of stories of 6+ early adopters returning their phones because they're too large. I'm guessing that the 6+ sells better among people who can't try before buying and the 6 sells better among people who are able to handle each of them, and since so many phone sales are done in-person, the 6 will overtake the 6+ in sales.
posted by ardgedee at 3:28 AM on September 29, 2014
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Bringing your young child onto a two day queue is terrible parenting. But if it means a month's salary for two day's work, I can understand why they do it.
posted by arcticseal at 8:58 AM on September 20, 2014 [8 favorites]