Ex-Military Leaders Debate Senators On Closing US Prison Outside US Laws

February 6, 2015 12:46 AM

"The greatest single action the United States can take to fight terrorism is to close Guantanamo." So explains the letter from 40 retired military leaders, including the first commander at Guantanamo, General Hoar, former head of CENTCOM General Maddox, and former head of the US Army in Europe. Senator Graham rebuts: "Common sense would tell us that if you’re still in Guantanamo Bay after all these years you’re probably a high risk.”

"It's hard to overstate how damaging the continued existence of the detention facility at Guantanamo has been and continues to be," reads the letter. "[Closing it] is a critical national security issue."

posted by blankdawn (33 comments total)

Graham's comment is not really fully thought out. They may be high risk, but may not, as it has been found that some detainees were there for years that were relatively "innocent" but caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, or were an unwitting/pressured driver or something.

Not to mention, they could be moved to locations other than Guantanamo if there is sufficient evidence that they are a high risk. There's no argument for keeping it open. Stop the indefinite detention (and medically unnecessary tortuous procedures such as rectal feeding) and go ahead and convict and jail them in the US or whatever is necessary. Keeping this external prison open helps nothing.
posted by kup0 at 1:09 AM on February 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

As a foreigner, I'll never understand the American Constitution. Can't the President use one of his other powers? Declare war on Guantamo? Have the Senate specially rendered there?

You people need some kind of revolution.
posted by Segundus at 1:13 AM on February 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

While this article is not particularly good, common sense would tell us that even if some of the people there are dangerous, we don't really need to keep them without trial on a de facto illegal base in another country and treat them like sub-humans. "Probably a high risk" is not a reason for indefinite, interminable imprisonment with no rights or recourse.
posted by Red Loop at 2:40 AM on February 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Same kind of common sense that says if the police shot you you must have needed shooting.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:43 AM on February 6, 2015 [22 favorites]

The idea of a "high risk" detainee is absurd and offensive to the imaginary American tradition of justice and human rights.

Graham is a joke - not a funny one either.
posted by Salvor Hardin at 2:52 AM on February 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Wait, I thought those who served are to be honored, respected and listened to, especially when giving military advice?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:27 AM on February 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

So Senator Graham is basically saying 'If you're in prison you must be guilty and therefore dangerous' which is a slight stretch even if you've had a trail.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:49 AM on February 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Closing Gitmo would be a "win" for Obama, and the Republicans are committed to preventing all such outcomes regardless of their obvious necessity. If Obama had the cure for AIDS in his pocket, the GOP would find a (patently ridiculous) reason to block implementation.

Plus there's simple jingoism and racism at work here, too, but...yeah.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:55 AM on February 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Cotton is also a walking and talking demonstration of the drawbacks of dehumanizing the enemy in the minds of our troops. I'm sure some of those retired generals seeing his remarks are left with the realization that they created this problem for themselves.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:01 AM on February 6, 2015

I sometimes wonder whether people confusedly think the Guantanamo prisoners are supervillains.
posted by Slothrup at 4:52 AM on February 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

Even if you take for granted that some of the prisoners at Gitmo pose risk of recidivism, weighed against the prison's notoriety in the Muslim world and usefulness as a recruiting tool, the choice of which is more a danger to our national security is clear to anyone serious about reducing terrorism, as opposed to those, like Graham, who are too heavily invested in the wrong course to ever admit being wrong.

tldr, politician's gonna politic.
posted by echocollate at 4:58 AM on February 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Closing Gitmo would be a "win" for Obama, and the Republicans are committed to preventing all such outcomes regardless of their obvious necessity. If Obama had the cure for AIDS in his pocket, the GOP would find a (patently ridiculous) reason to block implementation.

Obama could close Gitmo tomorrow using the same "war powers" reasoning that has been used to justify the indefinite detentions in the first place. The problem is that a vast majority of the prisoners would have to be released because they are un-trialable in either the military or civilian justice systems or Obama would have to build another special prison for his special prisoners. Obama's original idea of a special prison on US soil was going to be worse than Gitmo in every way and it's an ironic mercy that the Republicans were too craven to go along with it.
posted by ennui.bz at 5:30 AM on February 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

What Graham obviously means is they're a high risk because they've been in Guantanamo all these years. It's like when you're holding on to an ornery rattlesnake - you can't let him go or he'll bite ya.
posted by Flashman at 5:33 AM on February 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Why are you in prison? Because you're guilty. How do you know I'm guilty? Because you are in prison.

Common sense is best.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 5:36 AM on February 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Watch: GOP Senator harangues baffled Pentagon official about Gitmo in bizarre rant
posted by andoatnp at 5:50 AM on February 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

the election of tom cotton was a sad day for arkansas. he was part of the republican sweep of all major offices. he also got elected on the back of an ad that basically said "my mom thinks i'm pretty!"

the yahoos i grew up with are pleased as punch with his quote. i weep for my state, and our country.
posted by nadawi at 6:21 AM on February 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Everyone at the committee hearing just sat there as the mania escalated...

"Mania" is the right word for it. When the torture documents were recently released, it seemed like everyone on TV was saying some variation on, "It was bad, but they were desperate to keep our children safe so did what they had to do." Since it's well-known that torture isn't a reliable means of getting useful information, that's like saying, "I'm going to keep our children safe if I have to paint an X on every tree in this neighborhood."

Feeling compelled to do perform some irrational ritual in order to prevent something from happening, even when you know for a fact it's not going to do that, can be a sign of mental disorder. I feel like we're living in the middle of an epidemic of mass hysteria, and the people with the most severe symptoms are the ones with their fingers on the triggers.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:35 AM on February 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

Or fighting like hell to keep innocent men in prison, to keep them from obtaining any redress for the years they spent in jail for no reason? It's the American way. Prosecutors all over the country do it too, long after everyone agrees that the prisoners in question didn't do what they were accused of doing. Why should the illegal prison in Gitmo be any different?
posted by 1adam12 at 8:06 AM on February 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Ashton Carter, the nominee for U.S. secretary of defense, pledged to U.S. Sen. Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire during his Senate Armed Services Committee nomination hearing that he would not be pressured by the administration of President Barack Obama to increase the pace of releasing detainees from the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
posted by lalochezia at 8:10 AM on February 6, 2015

Why are you in prison? Because you're guilty. How do you know I'm guilty? Because you are in prison.

I was just listening to this story about Mohamedou Ould Slahi, who is no angel, but has lanquished in Guantanamo since 2002. "And that's despite an order for his release made by an American court, four years ago."

WTF?
posted by sneebler at 8:28 AM on February 6, 2015

Obama could close Gitmo tomorrow using the same "war powers" reasoning that has been used to justify the indefinite detentions in the first place.

Congress controls the purse, though, and they have said no money can be spent on closing the base.
posted by jpe at 8:36 AM on February 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

WTF?

It's because they don't have a place for him to go. So he's free to go .. back to his cell.


I think. I'm not absolutely sure, since I find the whole damn thing baffling...
posted by eclectist at 9:04 AM on February 6, 2015

There are few things scarier that a self-righteous and stupid person in a position of power.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:58 AM on February 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Or more common...
posted by umberto at 10:22 AM on February 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Congress controls the purse, though, and they have said no money can be spent on closing the base.

So... Don't spend any money? Let the prisoners go free (or bring them into the judicial system proper) and stop sending staff to relieve people returning from Cuba, and soon you've effectively closed it, even if that's just in the form if literally walking away from the buildings. You can close the place without spending money decommissioning it - just stop spending money on keeping it running.
posted by Dysk at 10:35 AM on February 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

You can do that once the current detainees have been moved to somewhere else. It seems like in the entire world, no matter what huge bribe consideration from the US Government, there is no where for them to go.
posted by sammyo at 11:05 AM on February 6, 2015

Previously: it don't gitmo better than this
posted by The Whelk at 11:19 AM on February 6, 2015

WHATS WRONG WITH YOUR PRESIDENT!
posted by clavdivs at 5:43 PM on February 6, 2015

What's wrong with the President? More like what's wrong with Congress. They specifically pass laws preventing releasing or even transferring of prisoners out of Guantanamo.
posted by eye of newt at 9:17 PM on February 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I'm not sure I believe that Congress really does have the power to hamstring the US's Commander in Chief from actions taken in respect of his wartime powers. In any event, Obama could release those prisoners by making a single phone call: they could walk out of the jail and into the Navy base proper; with Cuba's consent, they could even walk out of US jurisdiction altogether. He could allow them free access to lawyers; he could stop stymieing their appeals; he could let them live like human beings. None of this is outside his power.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:52 AM on February 7, 2015

Also from the article, only 10 of the prisoners have been prosecuted or formally accused. So those 10, if found guilty of an actual, defined crime, can serve out their sentences in federal prison. The rest must be released, with some kind of compensatory damages and official pardons / apologies.

That is the right way to begin anew an actual, honest and effective fight against "terrorists."
posted by blankdawn at 10:17 AM on February 7, 2015

If all Middle Eastern women had an education (roughly a two year college degree), there would be positive ripple effects, all leading to peace in that region of earth.

Go ahead and educate them to prove me wrong, and if I am wrong, I shall eat my hat.
posted by Monkey0nCrack at 5:14 PM on February 7, 2015

the election of tom cotton was a sad day for arkansasAmerica.
posted by one weird trick at 6:42 PM on February 7, 2015