The unsung heroine of ‘Late Night with David Letterman’
May 12, 2015 12:29 PM Subscribe
"I had Dave’s voice all analyzed and figured out, because not only did I live with him, but I was preoccupied with creating a show that would please him. Nowadays we call that sort of thing “co-dependence.” But in those days I simply called it “being head writer.”.Mike Sacks' [previously] extended interview with Late Night‘s original head writer, Merrill Markoe.
I really like the extended segment where she talks about the kind of humor that she doesn't like. You can see a real theoretical mastery of comedy in there.
posted by painquale at 12:53 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by painquale at 12:53 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
I feel like there is a hidden critique of what Letterman's show eventually turned into. Pygmy marmosets and no contemporary funny women, no unusual guests, superstar women who flirt with the host, a few funny routines beaten into the ground.
I loved early Letterman, but it;s hard not to get the feeling that a lot of what I loved was actually Markoe and others, and that Letterman really just wanted to turn into Carson.
posted by maxsparber at 1:18 PM on May 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
I loved early Letterman, but it;s hard not to get the feeling that a lot of what I loved was actually Markoe and others, and that Letterman really just wanted to turn into Carson.
posted by maxsparber at 1:18 PM on May 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
I loved early Letterman
No kidding. I haven't watched him since 1990, but damn, he was a friend of my youth as a teenager in 1980's. There were some of us who were influenced by Monty Python, but for better or for worse (in retrospect, for worse, certainly) there were those of us influenced by Letterman as young men.
posted by Nevin at 1:37 PM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
No kidding. I haven't watched him since 1990, but damn, he was a friend of my youth as a teenager in 1980's. There were some of us who were influenced by Monty Python, but for better or for worse (in retrospect, for worse, certainly) there were those of us influenced by Letterman as young men.
posted by Nevin at 1:37 PM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
I love Merrill (and I love Dave). She lives in Malibu and for a few Christmases she'd update visitors to her blog about the state of her neighbor's Christmas decorations.
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 1:43 PM on May 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 1:43 PM on May 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
I love Merrill Markoe.
And as a rule I hate tit jokes. I think every reasonably funny version of the average tit joke was wrapped up and put to bed about 1720. Same with double entendres. I’ve seen all the melon and hot dog confusion I need for one lifetime.posted by frenetic at 1:44 PM on May 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
It is a cultural crime that the "a woman can't do a late night talk show" prejudice has deprived us of a Merrill Markoe Show for 30+ years.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:48 PM on May 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:48 PM on May 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
Anyone who looks down their nose at puns is probably not a lot of fun to hang around with.
posted by Renoroc at 1:51 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Renoroc at 1:51 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I highly doubt it's her ambition to be fun to hang around with.
posted by Nevin at 2:11 PM on May 12, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by Nevin at 2:11 PM on May 12, 2015 [14 favorites]
I'm sure she wrote one of my favorite comedy bits of all time.
Late Night came back from a long vacation, and they did a segment where Late Night staffers shared pictures from their break. I can't remember who did the first couple, but they were travel photos and standard vacation pictures.
Rule of threes, so Merrill came out third, and she's showing pictures from her vacation. "I mostly hung out at my boyfriend's house. Here he is by the pool. He's trying to drown our dogs." There's a picture of a guy by the pool, back turned, with their dogs (one of them was recognizably Bob the dog). Dave starts defending the boyfriend -- "It looks like he's playing with the dogs." "No, he's trying to drown them."
They went back and forth like that, without any pictures that definitively showed Dave. I'm sure the bit was funny on its face, but if you were enough of a TrueFan to know that Dave was the unidentified boyfriend that he was defending, it took it to another level. I wish I could find it online.
In a lot of ways, that's the difference between 12:30 and 11:30 Dave -- 11:30 Dave explains the joke.
posted by SubterraneanRedStateBlues at 2:35 PM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
Late Night came back from a long vacation, and they did a segment where Late Night staffers shared pictures from their break. I can't remember who did the first couple, but they were travel photos and standard vacation pictures.
Rule of threes, so Merrill came out third, and she's showing pictures from her vacation. "I mostly hung out at my boyfriend's house. Here he is by the pool. He's trying to drown our dogs." There's a picture of a guy by the pool, back turned, with their dogs (one of them was recognizably Bob the dog). Dave starts defending the boyfriend -- "It looks like he's playing with the dogs." "No, he's trying to drown them."
They went back and forth like that, without any pictures that definitively showed Dave. I'm sure the bit was funny on its face, but if you were enough of a TrueFan to know that Dave was the unidentified boyfriend that he was defending, it took it to another level. I wish I could find it online.
In a lot of ways, that's the difference between 12:30 and 11:30 Dave -- 11:30 Dave explains the joke.
posted by SubterraneanRedStateBlues at 2:35 PM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
I loved early Letterman, but it's hard not to get the feeling that a lot of what I loved was actually Markoe and others
So, so agree.
Deep down I'm truly hoping for one last shout-out to the beloved Bob The Dog in these final days...but we all know that's not going to happen.
and what the previous guy said
posted by JoeZydeco at 3:03 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
So, so agree.
Deep down I'm truly hoping for one last shout-out to the beloved Bob The Dog in these final days...but we all know that's not going to happen.
and what the previous guy said
posted by JoeZydeco at 3:03 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Some of Letterman (and therefore Markoe)'s early daytime shows from 1980 are on YouTube. Here is an awesome one with Andy Kaufman.
posted by Nevin at 3:18 PM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Nevin at 3:18 PM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
I highly doubt it's her ambition to be fun to hang around with.
Which makes comedy a very interesting career choice.
posted by Renoroc at 3:18 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Which makes comedy a very interesting career choice.
posted by Renoroc at 3:18 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Anyone who looks down their nose at puns is probably not a lot of fun to hang around with.
Oh man, if I were one of her friends, I would make it my hobby to bug her with puns at every opportunity (clever ones, I hope, but puns nonetheless). I mean hell, half the fun of punning is hearing your victim squawk in derision!
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:27 PM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
Oh man, if I were one of her friends, I would make it my hobby to bug her with puns at every opportunity (clever ones, I hope, but puns nonetheless). I mean hell, half the fun of punning is hearing your victim squawk in derision!
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:27 PM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
Which makes comedy a very interesting career choice.
I dunno, I don't see Markoe/Letterman's 1980's material as the end result of a desire to fit in (ie, "be fun to hang around with"). It's ascerbic, contrarian, and almost nihilistic. It's humour for outsiders, for people who don't fit in, and have decided to make a go of not fitting in.
Markoe herself identifies as a contrarian, and contrarians are pretty miserable company.
That's why I think it may have been unhealthy for me at that point in time to have come across Letterman as a teen.
posted by Nevin at 3:29 PM on May 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
I dunno, I don't see Markoe/Letterman's 1980's material as the end result of a desire to fit in (ie, "be fun to hang around with"). It's ascerbic, contrarian, and almost nihilistic. It's humour for outsiders, for people who don't fit in, and have decided to make a go of not fitting in.
Markoe herself identifies as a contrarian, and contrarians are pretty miserable company.
That's why I think it may have been unhealthy for me at that point in time to have come across Letterman as a teen.
posted by Nevin at 3:29 PM on May 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
(I also hate puns)
posted by Nevin at 3:29 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Nevin at 3:29 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
I had a couple of books of her columns as a youth, and I wore them out. She is hilarious. I have often been pressed to recall her private reaction to being stuck on a bad date: "If I have to sit here and listen to one more phrase tumble out of your big rubbery head, I think I'm going to have to start taking hostages."
She went on a date with Fabio once -- it was some kind of sponsored thing, purely done for the column. Fabio was nice enough, but their mutual bemusement at each other was so memorable.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:39 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
She went on a date with Fabio once -- it was some kind of sponsored thing, purely done for the column. Fabio was nice enough, but their mutual bemusement at each other was so memorable.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:39 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Which makes comedy a very interesting career choice.
Is there some reason we're focusing on her likeability?
posted by dialetheia at 3:41 PM on May 12, 2015 [23 favorites]
Is there some reason we're focusing on her likeability?
posted by dialetheia at 3:41 PM on May 12, 2015 [23 favorites]
Kamarr The Discount Magician, Andy, Harvey Pekar...those were the days when 12:30 couldn't come soon enough.
posted by davebush at 3:44 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by davebush at 3:44 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
contrarians are pretty miserable company.
No we're not!!
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:47 PM on May 12, 2015 [15 favorites]
No we're not!!
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:47 PM on May 12, 2015 [15 favorites]
Harvey Pekar was an interesting guy, he wouldn't take Dave's shit. If you ever get the chance to read American Splendor (the autobiographical comic he was always selling) do yourself a favor and read it.
posted by Bonzai at 3:52 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Bonzai at 3:52 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm really looking forward to the epic Letterman retirement FPP that I hope someone is working on but I was really happy to find this because Merrill Markoe really deserves recognition apart from being mentioned in someone else's thread.
those were the days when 12:30 couldn't come soon enough.
1:30 wasn't too shabby back then, either!
posted by Room 641-A at 4:22 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
those were the days when 12:30 couldn't come soon enough.
1:30 wasn't too shabby back then, either!
posted by Room 641-A at 4:22 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
contrarians are pretty miserable company.
No we're not!!
This isn't an argument.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:27 PM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
No we're not!!
This isn't an argument.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:27 PM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
That explains a good deal. I watched early Letterman compulsively and then stopped being able to abide it.
posted by Peach at 4:39 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Peach at 4:39 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
1:30 wasn't too shabby back then, either!
I just remember Later With Bob Costas at that timeslot...
posted by Nevin at 4:41 PM on May 12, 2015
I just remember Later With Bob Costas at that timeslot...
posted by Nevin at 4:41 PM on May 12, 2015
He's had his own show (including the daytime show) for 35 years. Anything in that first decade could be classified as "early".
posted by Nevin at 5:32 PM on May 12, 2015
posted by Nevin at 5:32 PM on May 12, 2015
The thing of it is is that puns and verbal wordplay are the first exposure to the comedic arts for just about every person.
The first joke you ever heard or told was a pun, I'd bet.
So it strikes me as very odd that someone who makes a living at writing comedy hates puns. It would be like a chemist who hates atomic weights, a podiatrist who hates big toes or a surgeon who hates anatomy. The pun thing really stuck out.
posted by Renoroc at 5:33 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
The first joke you ever heard or told was a pun, I'd bet.
So it strikes me as very odd that someone who makes a living at writing comedy hates puns. It would be like a chemist who hates atomic weights, a podiatrist who hates big toes or a surgeon who hates anatomy. The pun thing really stuck out.
posted by Renoroc at 5:33 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's probably more like being a veteran musician who dislikes certain strains of pop or folk music because it's become simplistic and unchallenging to listen to.
posted by ardgedee at 5:37 PM on May 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by ardgedee at 5:37 PM on May 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
The thing of it is is that puns and verbal wordplay are the first exposure to the comedic arts for just about every person.
The first joke you ever heard or told was a pun, I'd bet.
So it strikes me as very odd that someone who makes a living at writing comedy hates puns. It would be like a chemist who hates atomic weights, a podiatrist who hates big toes or a surgeon who hates anatomy.
Actually, "like Mike Phelps hating to doggie paddle" fits your analogy better, and also proves OUR point.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:06 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
The first joke you ever heard or told was a pun, I'd bet.
So it strikes me as very odd that someone who makes a living at writing comedy hates puns. It would be like a chemist who hates atomic weights, a podiatrist who hates big toes or a surgeon who hates anatomy.
Actually, "like Mike Phelps hating to doggie paddle" fits your analogy better, and also proves OUR point.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:06 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Nine or 10 years ago, I got to see Merrill Markoe do readings of The Psycho Ex Game with her co-writer, musician Andy Prieboy (formerly of Wall of Voodoo). It was amazing.
posted by infinitywaltz at 6:13 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by infinitywaltz at 6:13 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Puns aren't required to make good comedy like atomic weights are required for chemistry.
posted by bleep at 6:15 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bleep at 6:15 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
infinitywaltz: "musician Andy Prieboy (formerly of Wall of Voodoo)."
[sighs happily at the magic words]
posted by Samizdata at 6:32 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
[sighs happily at the magic words]
posted by Samizdata at 6:32 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Her para-quoting Robert Benchley:
"Anyone can do any amount of work, provided it isn’t the work he is supposed to be doing at that moment.” He describes putting up shelves, clipping magazines, sharpening pencils. You don’t get any writing done, but you get all this other work done. At the very least, it’s not a complete waste of time.
Puts a fine point on how internet based procrastination is, in fact, an utter waste of time... we're not even sharpening pencils when we're on here.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 6:53 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Anyone can do any amount of work, provided it isn’t the work he is supposed to be doing at that moment.” He describes putting up shelves, clipping magazines, sharpening pencils. You don’t get any writing done, but you get all this other work done. At the very least, it’s not a complete waste of time.
Puts a fine point on how internet based procrastination is, in fact, an utter waste of time... we're not even sharpening pencils when we're on here.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 6:53 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Really great read. I wish we got to see more of her work on television.
Also, any time someone is wondering if they should post anything even tangentially related to Linda Ellerbee, the answer is always "Yes".
posted by benito.strauss at 7:24 PM on May 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
Also, any time someone is wondering if they should post anything even tangentially related to Linda Ellerbee, the answer is always "Yes".
posted by benito.strauss at 7:24 PM on May 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
My first exposure to Letterman was the exact moment Markoe describes about the ending to the "50th wedding anniversary of a couple from Long Island named Sam and Betty Kotinoff". The sparklers, the falling synthetic rose petals, the small fires. I thought "this is probably the best thing I have ever seen on television".
Next thing I know he's throwing himself in a vat of water while wearing an Alki-Seltzer suit, and I was convinced.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:10 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Next thing I know he's throwing himself in a vat of water while wearing an Alki-Seltzer suit, and I was convinced.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:10 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Puns are to comedy as viruses are to cellular life - they resemble the latter, but are not quite the same thing.
posted by Nevin at 8:32 PM on May 12, 2015
posted by Nevin at 8:32 PM on May 12, 2015
I will forever and ever find Merrill Markoe deeply impressive and hilarious. I would watch her talk show any day. There is more to her work than just Late Night!
Merrill Markoe gets a drag queen makeover
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 8:47 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Merrill Markoe gets a drag queen makeover
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 8:47 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Reasons why I love this woman so much:
But to be honest, I never much liked The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. Dave used to say that Johnny Carson seemed like the hip uncle whom he wanted to please. But to me, that show was a place where they never booked any smart women. I couldn’t help but view it through the prism of my U.C. Berkeley Art School experiences, which boiled down to a simple “fuck that plastic showbiz shit.”
What smart women in particular were missing from The Tonight Show?
Any smart women, of any stripe. Writers, reporters, producers, filmmakers, artists, scientists, eccentrics. No comediennes ever appeared on that show besides Joan Rivers and Phyllis Diller. Certainly none of the comediennes my own age appeared on the show.
On The Tonight Show, women were either amazingly glamorous actresses or they were booked to create cleavage-related humor and flirt with Johnny. I guess there must have been exceptions I am not remembering—the opera singer Beverly Sills, for example, or Carol Burnett.
But, as a whole, there never seemed to be any cerebrally oriented female content. I thought of it as one more example of the old showbiz sensibility that I was so sick of. Johnny reminded me of Hef in Playboy After Dark. Dave could look at Johnny and see a guy with whom he could joke and communicate. I would only see the kind of guy who would want no part of me and my kind.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 9:19 PM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
But to be honest, I never much liked The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. Dave used to say that Johnny Carson seemed like the hip uncle whom he wanted to please. But to me, that show was a place where they never booked any smart women. I couldn’t help but view it through the prism of my U.C. Berkeley Art School experiences, which boiled down to a simple “fuck that plastic showbiz shit.”
What smart women in particular were missing from The Tonight Show?
Any smart women, of any stripe. Writers, reporters, producers, filmmakers, artists, scientists, eccentrics. No comediennes ever appeared on that show besides Joan Rivers and Phyllis Diller. Certainly none of the comediennes my own age appeared on the show.
On The Tonight Show, women were either amazingly glamorous actresses or they were booked to create cleavage-related humor and flirt with Johnny. I guess there must have been exceptions I am not remembering—the opera singer Beverly Sills, for example, or Carol Burnett.
But, as a whole, there never seemed to be any cerebrally oriented female content. I thought of it as one more example of the old showbiz sensibility that I was so sick of. Johnny reminded me of Hef in Playboy After Dark. Dave could look at Johnny and see a guy with whom he could joke and communicate. I would only see the kind of guy who would want no part of me and my kind.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 9:19 PM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
Merrill Markoe gets a drag queen makeover
"clunky gal"... Markoe and Letterman definitely share the same sense with words. I also love the dry, dry humor.
posted by Nevin at 10:02 PM on May 12, 2015
"clunky gal"... Markoe and Letterman definitely share the same sense with words. I also love the dry, dry humor.
posted by Nevin at 10:02 PM on May 12, 2015
I can't be certain, but I am pretty sure this is Markoe's own YouTube channel.
posted by Nevin at 10:16 PM on May 12, 2015
posted by Nevin at 10:16 PM on May 12, 2015
Early Letterman? You mean his morning show, right?
I myself lost interest after his superlative work with the Starland Vocal Band.
posted by maxsparber at 8:20 AM on May 13, 2015
I myself lost interest after his superlative work with the Starland Vocal Band.
posted by maxsparber at 8:20 AM on May 13, 2015
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