Cuckservative is an amalgamation of the word cuckold and conservative.
August 13, 2015 3:00 PM Subscribe
From the Right, a New Slur for G.O.P. Candidates [NY Times]
Cuckservative is an amalgamation of the word cuckold and conservative. [Salon]
Conservatives Are Holding a Conversation About Race [The New Republic]
‘Cuckservative’ — the conservative insult of the month, explained [Washington Post]
‘Cuckservative’ Is A Gloriously Effective Insult That Should Not Be Slurred, Demonised, Or Ridiculed [Breitbart]
“Cuckservative” is a Racist Slur and an Attack on Evangelical Christians [Red State]
Cuckservative is an amalgamation of the word cuckold and conservative. [Salon]
Conservatives Are Holding a Conversation About Race [The New Republic]
‘Cuckservative’ — the conservative insult of the month, explained [Washington Post]
‘Cuckservative’ Is A Gloriously Effective Insult That Should Not Be Slurred, Demonised, Or Ridiculed [Breitbart]
“Cuckservative” is a Racist Slur and an Attack on Evangelical Christians [Red State]
Holy shit is this even real
Is the republican party just 4chan and stormfront
Has it always been this way
posted by Avenger at 3:05 PM on August 13, 2015 [116 favorites]
Is the republican party just 4chan and stormfront
Has it always been this way
posted by Avenger at 3:05 PM on August 13, 2015 [116 favorites]
Is the republican party just 4chan and stormfront
Pretty much. Their vision of the future is a neverending frat party stomping on a human face.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:07 PM on August 13, 2015 [70 favorites]
Pretty much. Their vision of the future is a neverending frat party stomping on a human face.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:07 PM on August 13, 2015 [70 favorites]
The implication is that mainstream Republicans, like jilted husbands, are facing humiliation and have lost sight of their futures.
No, it has pretty explicit sexual and racial connotations when /pol/ uses it.
Will we see 'redpilled' as a term hit mainstream discourse too? It fits the color scheme.
posted by postcommunism at 3:12 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
No, it has pretty explicit sexual and racial connotations when /pol/ uses it.
Will we see 'redpilled' as a term hit mainstream discourse too? It fits the color scheme.
posted by postcommunism at 3:12 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
Looking for a company that can deliver popcorn and butter by the dump truck load.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:13 PM on August 13, 2015 [27 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:13 PM on August 13, 2015 [27 favorites]
Gross.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 3:13 PM on August 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by chainlinkspiral at 3:13 PM on August 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
Arg, Salon:
I'm not going to say that it's not problematic — I tend to think of porn as featuring some of the most naked (no pun intended) expressions of racism in America, and cuck stuff exists in that context — but if they're gonna opine on cuck porn, they should probably ask some people who are into it about why they're into it, rather than just coding it as a function of racist white male desire. And who knows — maybe the women I knew who were into it were anomalies, but jeez, at least ask some.
posted by klangklangston at 3:14 PM on August 13, 2015 [13 favorites]
(Paradoxically, this genre also positively reaffirms white supremacy; in the interracial “BBC” scenario,the white racial frame’s assumption that white women are desired above all other women is made explicit.)The racial coding of porn fetish will make for some pretty swell dissertations someday, but for the folks I knew who participated in that porn and in the whole cuck/breeding/bbc scene, it was very much driven by the women, not the men, and racial catharsis was an acknowledged part of it — that the men were black made it more transgressive than the already extant subversion of monogamous assumptions. It was to emphasize that the men were something that their white husbands could never be: black.
So it is clear why the genre is popular: The combination of fetish and racial entitlement are, for a certain segment of white American men, an almost alchemical admixture.
I'm not going to say that it's not problematic — I tend to think of porn as featuring some of the most naked (no pun intended) expressions of racism in America, and cuck stuff exists in that context — but if they're gonna opine on cuck porn, they should probably ask some people who are into it about why they're into it, rather than just coding it as a function of racist white male desire. And who knows — maybe the women I knew who were into it were anomalies, but jeez, at least ask some.
posted by klangklangston at 3:14 PM on August 13, 2015 [13 favorites]
How the fuck can anyone call Donnie Trump "tough"? Has he ever done anything for himself in his pampered rich baby life? Can he even remember his own Social Security number?
posted by nicebookrack at 3:14 PM on August 13, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 3:14 PM on August 13, 2015 [14 favorites]
It's also interesting to note -- as the New Republic link points out -- that Rush Limbaugh is now openly using White Nationalist vocabulary and code-words on his radio show.
I mean, we've always known he's racist, but it's always been a deniable kind of racism. "Oh when I said "thugs" I meant criminals of all kinds, no particular skin color, etc. etc."
He's literally *this close* to dropping "88's" and "14 words" into his show.
posted by Avenger at 3:15 PM on August 13, 2015 [27 favorites]
I mean, we've always known he's racist, but it's always been a deniable kind of racism. "Oh when I said "thugs" I meant criminals of all kinds, no particular skin color, etc. etc."
He's literally *this close* to dropping "88's" and "14 words" into his show.
posted by Avenger at 3:15 PM on August 13, 2015 [27 favorites]
That all said, I think that the people using #cuckservative are not the same folks as those who watch or make cuck porn, so its pejorative racial and sexist implications are likely intended.
posted by klangklangston at 3:15 PM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 3:15 PM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
These weirdo racists are also trolling Ta-Nehisi Coates' new book. That review is gross with its racial-sexual winks. Why is cucking even on their minds? It's like a rare glimpse into the psychosexual aspects of their political imagination and twisted worldview.
posted by naju at 3:16 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by naju at 3:16 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
Conhole
Repmonger
Elephantnozzle
Neobag
Foxheel
These are sort of fun, but I imagine that someone could write a program to generate them more efficiently.
"Cuckservative" does not roll off the tongue. Go back home, racist internet, you are drunk. Again.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:17 PM on August 13, 2015 [18 favorites]
Repmonger
Elephantnozzle
Neobag
Foxheel
These are sort of fun, but I imagine that someone could write a program to generate them more efficiently.
"Cuckservative" does not roll off the tongue. Go back home, racist internet, you are drunk. Again.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:17 PM on August 13, 2015 [18 favorites]
"You're supposed to be on top, running the show, yet all around you is economic shambles, and the country lies like your ravaged wife in front of you.
"Who is the cancer eating away at the body politic, robbing you of your natural place at the top of the pecking order?"
This tune, it seems hauntingly familiar...
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 3:17 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
"Who is the cancer eating away at the body politic, robbing you of your natural place at the top of the pecking order?"
This tune, it seems hauntingly familiar...
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 3:17 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
They are like a man who tries to appeal to a woman through acts of submission; they inspire not desire but disgust. Each new conservative surrender inspires only further contempt in the hearts of leftists, which of course encourages conservatives to capitulate even more eagerly the next time.They have managed to distill the essence of their seething, murderous misogyny and racism into four letters. What a boon for conservative twitter! This is what the base of the GOP has become: hashtag Klansmen.
There’s also the variety of cuckold who gets a thrill from watching another man mount his wife. Such a creature possesses the illusion of control. He can tell himself that he is directing this obscenity and thus remain, in some way, the dominant figure.
American conservatism is perhaps best summarized as maintaining a posture of command even as the reality of control is lost. Thus conservatives cheering on the demographic transformation of the country tell themselves they remain leaders in the new America. The cuck in the corner begging to be degraded is still technically the ‘man of the house,’ for all the good it does him.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 3:18 PM on August 13, 2015 [18 favorites]
Why is cucking even on their minds?
From the NYT article: "The word’s popularity peaked on Twitter in July after people on the online forum 4chan promoted its use as a slur against Republicans...."
Heh. 4chan.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:20 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
From the NYT article: "The word’s popularity peaked on Twitter in July after people on the online forum 4chan promoted its use as a slur against Republicans...."
Heh. 4chan.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:20 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's perfect because it only makes sense if you accept their racist assumptions. It's a bizarre non-sequitor until you see it from within their bizarre racist and sexist tower of traumas and humiliated obsessions. It's still about a black man for whistling at a white woman, after all these years.
posted by idiopath at 3:27 PM on August 13, 2015 [29 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 3:27 PM on August 13, 2015 [29 favorites]
Gross.
Pretty much sums it up.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:27 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Pretty much sums it up.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:27 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
"My impression is that if it weren't for all the people complaining and expressing outrage, it would have remained an occasional usage in a marginal subculture."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:28 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:28 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
The "desirability" of white women is just the tip of the racist iceberg. It implies that the most humiliating thing for a man to experience is to be forced to witness his wife degraded, and the most degraded thing they can think of is for her to sleep with a white woman. Put that into terms of current politics and it only gets worse.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:28 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:28 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
One of the twitterers pushing this meme is Andrew Auernheimer aka weev.
posted by rustcrumb at 3:29 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by rustcrumb at 3:29 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
So, a mishmash of MRA misogyny, Stormfront race panic, PUA "alpha" insecurity, and low-information cryptofacism? Also, do I detect a piquant waft of homophobia to top off this shit sundae?
posted by Existential Dread at 3:30 PM on August 13, 2015 [55 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 3:30 PM on August 13, 2015 [55 favorites]
From the same people who think "libtard" and "fergtard" are clever names for people.
Monsters from the id, Morbius.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:30 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Monsters from the id, Morbius.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:30 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
I had to go look up "14 Words." Apparently its not 7 words x 2 though it is as full of suck.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 3:33 PM on August 13, 2015
posted by Ogre Lawless at 3:33 PM on August 13, 2015
most degraded thing they can think of is for her to sleep with a white woman.
Wait, a black man I mean.
White woman, black man, same diff
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:35 PM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
Wait, a black man I mean.
White woman, black man, same diff
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:35 PM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
The other word that I've seen a resurgence in far right circles (which I think I saw mentioned in one of the articles) is "sodomite" for gay people. Like is it 1950 again?
posted by Talez at 3:39 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 3:39 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Jesus jumped up Christ on a sidecar, can you even imagine how far we could have come if we spent half as much time feeding people as we do figuring out how to degrade them?
posted by Mooski at 3:40 PM on August 13, 2015 [51 favorites]
posted by Mooski at 3:40 PM on August 13, 2015 [51 favorites]
This... is amazing.
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:46 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:46 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's also interesting to note -- as the New Republic link points out -- that Rush Limbaugh is now openly using White Nationalist vocabulary and code-words on his radio show.
That's the thing. A few years ago, I spent a bit of time reading up on white supremacist movements along with Stormfront threads. It was horrific to read, but the fact is that the right has dropped the old dog-whistle stuff and has gone full-on neo-Nazi in their rhetoric, which means something. And that something is scary as hell.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:50 PM on August 13, 2015 [39 favorites]
That's the thing. A few years ago, I spent a bit of time reading up on white supremacist movements along with Stormfront threads. It was horrific to read, but the fact is that the right has dropped the old dog-whistle stuff and has gone full-on neo-Nazi in their rhetoric, which means something. And that something is scary as hell.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:50 PM on August 13, 2015 [39 favorites]
I find it bewildering. I still see Republicans as stuffed shirts. Can you imagine Mitt Romney even saying the word "cuckservative"? "Kochservative" I can believe.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:55 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:55 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Mitt Romney wouldn't say it. Internet conservatives and establishment conservatives are two entirely different things.
posted by dilaudid at 3:56 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by dilaudid at 3:56 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Now I'm even more frightened at the prospect of a Republican winning the White House. 'Cause nothing restores one's impugned conservative masculinity like lobbing a couple of nukes at Iran. It's like ideological Viagra.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:58 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 3:58 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
A Southern Baptist who associates with the Tea Party, [William] Brooks said that people who say “cuckservative” are disenfranchised Republicans, not racists.
A disenfranchised racist is still a racist, actually.
posted by IAmUnaware at 4:01 PM on August 13, 2015 [28 favorites]
A disenfranchised racist is still a racist, actually.
posted by IAmUnaware at 4:01 PM on August 13, 2015 [28 favorites]
To save you from clicking on that Breitbart link if you'd prefer not to:
Mostly, cuckservative memes are about GOP spinelessness on immigration, lies the political left tells about racism in America today, or simple frustration with the perceived limp-wristedness of the right-wing Establishment in the face of the vast left-wing smear machine.
A conflation is going on here: because the word “cuckold” has racial connotations, and because those who use the word “cuckservative” are angry about immigration and the bizarre contortions and excesses of liberal race agitators, the whole word and anyone associated with it has been branded “racist” because it’s just too awkward to unpack.
Ah, yes. The "race agitators."
Non-whites would be perfectly happy with the status quo otherwise.
This stuff was asked and answered by any and all credible history of the civil rights movement in the US, but here it goes again...
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:01 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Mostly, cuckservative memes are about GOP spinelessness on immigration, lies the political left tells about racism in America today, or simple frustration with the perceived limp-wristedness of the right-wing Establishment in the face of the vast left-wing smear machine.
A conflation is going on here: because the word “cuckold” has racial connotations, and because those who use the word “cuckservative” are angry about immigration and the bizarre contortions and excesses of liberal race agitators, the whole word and anyone associated with it has been branded “racist” because it’s just too awkward to unpack.
Ah, yes. The "race agitators."
Non-whites would be perfectly happy with the status quo otherwise.
This stuff was asked and answered by any and all credible history of the civil rights movement in the US, but here it goes again...
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:01 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
This use of an ancient, mostly-deprecated word as if it was the first to hand is very strange and leaves me with a profound sense of dislocation. I wonder: in twenty years will hardcore conservatives be speaking an actual other language?
posted by selfnoise at 4:05 PM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by selfnoise at 4:05 PM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
The new Right: all higgledy-piggledy.
posted by grumpybear69 at 4:07 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 4:07 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
[William] Brooks said that people who say “cuckservative” are disenfranchised Republicans, not racists.
Wow, way to slip right past the actual disenfranchisement happening in the US. (I know you were quoting, and my beef is with W. Brooks.)
posted by puddledork at 4:09 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Wow, way to slip right past the actual disenfranchisement happening in the US. (I know you were quoting, and my beef is with W. Brooks.)
posted by puddledork at 4:09 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Mitt Romney wouldn't say it. Internet conservatives and establishment conservatives are two entirely different things.
Pre-Trump, maybe.
posted by Artw at 4:09 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Pre-Trump, maybe.
posted by Artw at 4:09 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
The Red State link was pretty weak sauce. It can be summed up with this line: "The people who use the term 'cuckservative' are racists, not conservative, and not Christian." Basically, no true Scotsman, plus an attempt at manufacturing Christian outrage.
posted by peeedro at 4:09 PM on August 13, 2015
posted by peeedro at 4:09 PM on August 13, 2015
hal_c_on: consider yourself lucky that you are ignorant of the racist context of this term. It is not racist against the conservatives being talked about.
posted by idiopath at 4:10 PM on August 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 4:10 PM on August 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
Yeah, if you look at online story sites like Literotica, you'll find a mind-boggling degree of seething contempt and rage against "cucks," and that's when we're talking about fantasy fetishes or whatever. People go read those stories and then spew venom in the comments like that's the actual kink they're trying to fulfill -- not the infidelity or swinging or whatnot, but the rage. To the point where it seems pretty clear that they're dealing with something really personal in the whole thing.
Looking at this as a development, my mind is blown. They've gone political with it? Wow. Just wow.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:10 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Looking at this as a development, my mind is blown. They've gone political with it? Wow. Just wow.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:10 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Well let's see... the brits have the BNP and UKIP so maybe the non-cuckservatives will break away and form the United States Identity Party (USIP)-- great for drinking games.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:12 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:12 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I found having this term explained to me fascinating, but now an forever tainted by knowing the weird racist taste in porn of republicans.
posted by Artw at 4:12 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:12 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
Honestly, I thought cuclolding was some mild Dan Savage style link, not... this. I was so innocent.
posted by Artw at 4:16 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 4:16 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think I might be a "liberal race-baiter"; reading the bit below in the Breitbart piece made me think, "Oh shit, I didn't know that was the origin of 'hip hip hooray'. Maybe I should stop using that phrase..."
Semantic shifts like this happen all the time. “Hooligan” used to refer to Irish drunks, “vandal” was about Germans, and the phrase “hip hip hooray” comes from an old European shepherds’ herding cry that in 1819 started to be used as a call-to-arms for citizens Hebrew-hunting in the Jewish ghettos.
But we don’t cry “racist” whenever someone says any of these words. That would be stupid. That would be playing the sort of dumb, disingenuous game that liberal race-baiters do.
posted by aka burlap at 4:22 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Semantic shifts like this happen all the time. “Hooligan” used to refer to Irish drunks, “vandal” was about Germans, and the phrase “hip hip hooray” comes from an old European shepherds’ herding cry that in 1819 started to be used as a call-to-arms for citizens Hebrew-hunting in the Jewish ghettos.
But we don’t cry “racist” whenever someone says any of these words. That would be stupid. That would be playing the sort of dumb, disingenuous game that liberal race-baiters do.
posted by aka burlap at 4:22 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would not trust Brietbart as a source for the colour of the sky without outside confirmation.
posted by Artw at 4:24 PM on August 13, 2015 [44 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:24 PM on August 13, 2015 [44 favorites]
Slate notes that it is just a new and uglier way to call someone a "RINO"
More of a hateful zinger than RINO but also doesn't roll off the tongue as well. Think Cuckservative will have any staying power?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:24 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
More of a hateful zinger than RINO but also doesn't roll off the tongue as well. Think Cuckservative will have any staying power?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:24 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Although I don't know how much we want to trust Breitbart on etymology.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:27 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:27 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Really its about ethics in portmanteau creation.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:31 PM on August 13, 2015 [50 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:31 PM on August 13, 2015 [50 favorites]
ah, maybe y'all are right...
Well, I'd like to be a liberal race-baiter anyway.
posted by aka burlap at 4:35 PM on August 13, 2015
Well, I'd like to be a liberal race-baiter anyway.
posted by aka burlap at 4:35 PM on August 13, 2015
More like findom-acrats
posted by nom de poop at 4:36 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nom de poop at 4:36 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'd be more inclined to laugh at the messy breakdown of the constituent parts of the Republican coalition if I didn't fear that it's going to lead to (more) blood being spilled.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:37 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:37 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's something particularly strange about this in that people who view "cuck" porn are into the staged humiliation aspect of it. The (white) husband watching his (white) wife enjoy a sexual encounter with the (often black) third party, not from a perspective of poly vicarious enjoyment, but of an eroticized humiliation, is the whole point of the genre.
The coining and usage of the term "cuckservative" implies a familiarity with a porn genre in which racialized white men's sexual humiliation is a turn-on. Sure, the supposed point is that mainstream conservative politicians are the supposedly despicable people who enjoy that staged "humiliation." But it's like the men whose transmisogynistic rants reveal a whole lot of familiarity with the tropes of so-called "tranny porn." The rage comes from a place of self-hatred for the person's own eroticized responses. Studies have shown that men who express homophobic sentiments are a lot more aroused by watching gay pornography than are nonhomophobic straight-identified men.
I'm unsure of just how the parallel works out in this case, but what I am sure of us that there's something very psychosexually weird going on here.
posted by DrMew at 4:37 PM on August 13, 2015 [48 favorites]
The coining and usage of the term "cuckservative" implies a familiarity with a porn genre in which racialized white men's sexual humiliation is a turn-on. Sure, the supposed point is that mainstream conservative politicians are the supposedly despicable people who enjoy that staged "humiliation." But it's like the men whose transmisogynistic rants reveal a whole lot of familiarity with the tropes of so-called "tranny porn." The rage comes from a place of self-hatred for the person's own eroticized responses. Studies have shown that men who express homophobic sentiments are a lot more aroused by watching gay pornography than are nonhomophobic straight-identified men.
I'm unsure of just how the parallel works out in this case, but what I am sure of us that there's something very psychosexually weird going on here.
posted by DrMew at 4:37 PM on August 13, 2015 [48 favorites]
I have no problem with guys who want to watch their wives banging other dudes (although it's probably more a male fantasy than a real world practice, like a lot of porn) but the creepy racial subtext is where I nope out. Not like anyone asked.
posted by thelonius at 4:39 PM on August 13, 2015
posted by thelonius at 4:39 PM on August 13, 2015
So, is it basically implied with this term that Obama is the black guy? What a fucking country.
posted by feloniousmonk at 4:40 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by feloniousmonk at 4:40 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Semantic shifts like this happen all the time. “Hooligan” used to refer to Irish drunks, “vandal” was about Germans, and the phrase “hip hip hooray” comes from an old European shepherds’ herding cry that in 1819 started to be used as a call-to-arms for citizens Hebrew-hunting in the Jewish ghettos.
Hmm... there's a long convoluted explanation that sounds like utter bollocks, I suspect it's fairly safe.
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Hmm... there's a long convoluted explanation that sounds like utter bollocks, I suspect it's fairly safe.
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Kinks are weird, masochistic kinks definitely. Humiliation is a weird emotion. It's not always based on your own judgments, it's an emotion that has force because you imagine the judgments of others. I don't think you have to stretch to hard to find examples of things you are personally embarrassed by that you know there is nothing actually wrong with.
Cuckold porn with a focus on racial humiliation probably would not emerge in a society without racism. Cuckold porn itself with the misogynistic elements of viewing a partner as property to be violated probably doesn't emerge in a society that doesn't view people as things to be owned. But, really, not everyone who engages in it is racist. The force of the humiliation can come just from knowing what other people would think about it. The people who do it may be very race conscious in a positive way, but arousal and the logical mind aren't always things that work hand in hand.
So, all I'm trying to say is, don't compare people who engage in a racist and misogynistic kink with conservatives, it's not fair to the people with the kink to be compared with a group as clearly, consciously terrible as conservatives. ;)
posted by Drinky Die at 4:44 PM on August 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
Cuckold porn with a focus on racial humiliation probably would not emerge in a society without racism. Cuckold porn itself with the misogynistic elements of viewing a partner as property to be violated probably doesn't emerge in a society that doesn't view people as things to be owned. But, really, not everyone who engages in it is racist. The force of the humiliation can come just from knowing what other people would think about it. The people who do it may be very race conscious in a positive way, but arousal and the logical mind aren't always things that work hand in hand.
So, all I'm trying to say is, don't compare people who engage in a racist and misogynistic kink with conservatives, it's not fair to the people with the kink to be compared with a group as clearly, consciously terrible as conservatives. ;)
posted by Drinky Die at 4:44 PM on August 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
DrMew's comment is pretty much what I tried to figure out how to say five or six times, but I just couldn't work out the words. Like I said, you look at online story sites and such, there's a whole lot of distinctive patterns to both the stories and the reactions.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:45 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:45 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
All right-wing ideology is basically eroticized humiliation -- and the desire to turn that humiliation into domination of the inferior.
[[ALL LINKS NSFW]]
Somewhere, out there, a black man is fucking your wife. A Mexican is fucking your daughter. A man is fucking you.
"What are you going to do about it?" is the clarion call of Trump and his followers.
They are both disgusted and titillated by this. Their disgust gives them power. It turns them on.
posted by Avenger at 4:45 PM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
[[ALL LINKS NSFW]]
Somewhere, out there, a black man is fucking your wife. A Mexican is fucking your daughter. A man is fucking you.
"What are you going to do about it?" is the clarion call of Trump and his followers.
They are both disgusted and titillated by this. Their disgust gives them power. It turns them on.
posted by Avenger at 4:45 PM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
This cuckservative stuff is just so, so vile. The conservatives get more frightening every day. It's like their masks are slipping and we're seeing the wretched creeps beneath. Trump says the horrible stuff they're thinking, and the red states love him for it. The other candidates are left scrambling and frustrated, because you're not supposed to just come out and say the evil things! Doesn't that maniac understand how dog whistles work?
People talk about how hilarious it all is, but it just terrifies me. Right now I have to put all my hopes in the idea that despite the endless horrible, sexist, ageist, whatever-ist crap Americans have been saying about Hillary Clinton forever, she'll somehow become the first female president and save us from one of these black-hearted little pigfuckers getting into the oval office.
She is far from an easy win, and right now we really need an easy win. Seriously, if Hillary doesn't win, we're looking at another one of the Bush boys as president. Or President Walker. Or President Trump. Let that possibility roll around in your brain for a few minutes, then see how hilarious this situation is.
If the Republicans can muster up even one sane-looking, slick white male with a hard-on for Ayn Rand, some sick prick with a photogenic smile, he'll probably win this thing. Then we're looking at more senseless wars, the rollback of the ACA, sea levels rising to your back porch. We could end up longing for the Bush years, those carefree days before the Fall. "Remember when we used to complain about the economic collapse of 2008? Aw, how young we were..."
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:48 PM on August 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
People talk about how hilarious it all is, but it just terrifies me. Right now I have to put all my hopes in the idea that despite the endless horrible, sexist, ageist, whatever-ist crap Americans have been saying about Hillary Clinton forever, she'll somehow become the first female president and save us from one of these black-hearted little pigfuckers getting into the oval office.
She is far from an easy win, and right now we really need an easy win. Seriously, if Hillary doesn't win, we're looking at another one of the Bush boys as president. Or President Walker. Or President Trump. Let that possibility roll around in your brain for a few minutes, then see how hilarious this situation is.
If the Republicans can muster up even one sane-looking, slick white male with a hard-on for Ayn Rand, some sick prick with a photogenic smile, he'll probably win this thing. Then we're looking at more senseless wars, the rollback of the ACA, sea levels rising to your back porch. We could end up longing for the Bush years, those carefree days before the Fall. "Remember when we used to complain about the economic collapse of 2008? Aw, how young we were..."
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:48 PM on August 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
They are both disgusted and titillated by this. Their disgust gives them power. It turns them on.
This, combined with a nostalgia for a "better" America that never existed, is basically a raging fire and a nearby gasoline can that people keep picking up and setting back down.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:48 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
This, combined with a nostalgia for a "better" America that never existed, is basically a raging fire and a nearby gasoline can that people keep picking up and setting back down.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:48 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
ITT: Metafilter discovers that all American politics is Racial, and all Racism is Sexual.
posted by Avenger at 4:48 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Avenger at 4:48 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Can.. can somebody explain this to me? I'm still honestly 100% baffled. Like, I know what cuckolds are, and I understand the racial subtext.. but.. it's just the most confusing insult i've ever heard. Like, it doesn't even make sense to me why you would combine the two words. A cuckservative is a conservative who likes to watch his wife sleep with black men?
I have a feeling there's something horribly racist I'm missing as to why this would be an insult.
posted by zug at 4:50 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have a feeling there's something horribly racist I'm missing as to why this would be an insult.
posted by zug at 4:50 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
mandolin conspiricy: That's the thing. A few years ago, I spent a bit of time reading up on white supremacist movements along with Stormfront threads. It was horrific to read, but the fact is that the right has dropped the old dog-whistle stuff and has gone full-on neo-Nazi in their rhetoric, which means something. And that something is scary as hell.
The Card Cheat: I'd be more inclined to laugh at the messy breakdown of the constituent parts of the Republican coalition if I didn't fear that it's going to lead to (more) blood being spilled.
I've recently come to the conclusion that the vast increase in the frequency of mass shootings in the past eight years is probably part and parcel with Timothy McVeigh and other conservative domestic terrorism from the 90s.
In a post 9/11 world, actual terrorist plots (though I have no evidence other than supposition), with a few exceptions, get quietly nipped in the bud, but even our modern surveillance state can't detect every quietly simmering angry white man who eventually shoots into a crowd. There's no way to distinguish real intentions from empty braggadocio on sites like Stormfront and the darker corners of 4chan and reddit, and even if we could its possible a lot of these angry white men probably don't write much of anything online.
Except in the most egregious cases, like the Charleston shooting, the media never really delves that much into the background or politics of mass shooters. Often they're indiscriminate, rather than targeted like the Charleston shooting. But I'd be surprised if the vast, vast majority of mass shooters don't subscribe to some vein of conservative thinking, whether they be explicitly partisan Republicans or just people with misogynistic, racist, homophobic views.
Which is all to say that, with no real evidence (perhaps partially because the media doesn't investigate or acknowledge the ideologies of the people who commit these crimes), I worry that mass shootings and similar violence in America is the result of conservative bigots lashing out as they perceive that their world is being taken away from them, and that it's going to continue, if not get worse, if/as we continue to elect Democratic presidents and make other progressive, well, progress as a nation.
posted by Caduceus at 4:50 PM on August 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
The Card Cheat: I'd be more inclined to laugh at the messy breakdown of the constituent parts of the Republican coalition if I didn't fear that it's going to lead to (more) blood being spilled.
I've recently come to the conclusion that the vast increase in the frequency of mass shootings in the past eight years is probably part and parcel with Timothy McVeigh and other conservative domestic terrorism from the 90s.
In a post 9/11 world, actual terrorist plots (though I have no evidence other than supposition), with a few exceptions, get quietly nipped in the bud, but even our modern surveillance state can't detect every quietly simmering angry white man who eventually shoots into a crowd. There's no way to distinguish real intentions from empty braggadocio on sites like Stormfront and the darker corners of 4chan and reddit, and even if we could its possible a lot of these angry white men probably don't write much of anything online.
Except in the most egregious cases, like the Charleston shooting, the media never really delves that much into the background or politics of mass shooters. Often they're indiscriminate, rather than targeted like the Charleston shooting. But I'd be surprised if the vast, vast majority of mass shooters don't subscribe to some vein of conservative thinking, whether they be explicitly partisan Republicans or just people with misogynistic, racist, homophobic views.
Which is all to say that, with no real evidence (perhaps partially because the media doesn't investigate or acknowledge the ideologies of the people who commit these crimes), I worry that mass shootings and similar violence in America is the result of conservative bigots lashing out as they perceive that their world is being taken away from them, and that it's going to continue, if not get worse, if/as we continue to elect Democratic presidents and make other progressive, well, progress as a nation.
posted by Caduceus at 4:50 PM on August 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
if you use the term cuckservative, i don't care what side of the aisle you're on, i'm going to think you're acting racist and sexist.
posted by nadawi at 4:50 PM on August 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 4:50 PM on August 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
zug - i believe their reasoning is that a cuckservative is someone that wants a black man (obama) to fuck their wife (america) and gets a thrill out of the humiliation of losing their principles. it's really, really gross. and especially grosser when you consider how many white men still use the made up threat of black men raping their women to kill them, imprison them, and generally try to hold them as lesser.
posted by nadawi at 4:52 PM on August 13, 2015 [35 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 4:52 PM on August 13, 2015 [35 favorites]
Yeah, what nadawi said. If you are still baffled, it's because this is completely baffling. For me, that describes like 90% of everything coming out of 4chan.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:54 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Drinky Die at 4:54 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have a feeling there's something horribly racist I'm missing as to why this would be an insult.
posted by zug at 4:50 PM on August 13 [+] [!]
A cuckservative is a conservative who has lost his white male virility. He has willingly given up power to immigrants, blacks, gays, women, etc. A real white man would stand up to his inferiors and subdue them, but a cuckservative watches eagerly as the inferior, bestial races screw his wife (America).
So, any Republican who supports immigration reform, law enforcement reform, marriage equality, etc., is a cuckservative, because he willingly bows to his inferiors.
posted by Avenger at 4:56 PM on August 13, 2015 [30 favorites]
posted by zug at 4:50 PM on August 13 [+] [!]
A cuckservative is a conservative who has lost his white male virility. He has willingly given up power to immigrants, blacks, gays, women, etc. A real white man would stand up to his inferiors and subdue them, but a cuckservative watches eagerly as the inferior, bestial races screw his wife (America).
So, any Republican who supports immigration reform, law enforcement reform, marriage equality, etc., is a cuckservative, because he willingly bows to his inferiors.
posted by Avenger at 4:56 PM on August 13, 2015 [30 favorites]
it's really, really gross. and especially grosser when you consider how many white men still use the made up threat of black men raping their women to kill them, imprison them, and generally try to hold them as lesser.
Can't forget how gross the fact that they consider white women to be their's in the first place is.
posted by Caduceus at 5:02 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Can't forget how gross the fact that they consider white women to be their's in the first place is.
posted by Caduceus at 5:02 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
One thing that seems to be happening as the Tea Party takes them over is they are losing all ability to keep things on the level of subtext. It's like late series Hannibal but with something disgusting instead of murder-husbanding.
posted by Artw at 5:03 PM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:03 PM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
the emergence of this term from /pol/ is something i've been paying attention to, loosely, and i think what it represents is the ongoing crystalization a new faction of hard-right ideology native to the internet. i've seen some of these types label themselves as 'alt-right' -- they're alienated by traditional conservative institutions and radicalized by cesspools like /pol/, which has in the last few years gone from using racism merely for shock, to becoming explicitly white supremacist/nationalist.
the culture on it (and a few other communities like it) has self-awareness and straddles a line of throwing out racist tropes in a way that is meant to evoke mockery of mainstream cliches about racists, while reinforcing them as Actually That One's True [eg, US aide to israel justifying 'jews run everything']. this self-awareness allows them to feel a step ahead of the obvious cultural responses to their ideas, meta-gaming the anti-racist messages they've grown up with (and these are mostly young men). if it has any figureheads, i'd count weev among them.
i'd imagine there are probably communal links to dark enlightenment types, but i haven't looked deep enough to find them. if there aren't now, it's probably inevitable -- they're the same beast, reactionaries that are disenchanted with liberalism (i mean this in the historical sense). the difference is probably a matter of degree of sophistication in ideology. this is the backlash to the wave of progressivism we're currently in the throes of, and i'm not excited to see how it develops, and how much it can break into the mainstream.
posted by p3on at 5:07 PM on August 13, 2015 [19 favorites]
the culture on it (and a few other communities like it) has self-awareness and straddles a line of throwing out racist tropes in a way that is meant to evoke mockery of mainstream cliches about racists, while reinforcing them as Actually That One's True [eg, US aide to israel justifying 'jews run everything']. this self-awareness allows them to feel a step ahead of the obvious cultural responses to their ideas, meta-gaming the anti-racist messages they've grown up with (and these are mostly young men). if it has any figureheads, i'd count weev among them.
i'd imagine there are probably communal links to dark enlightenment types, but i haven't looked deep enough to find them. if there aren't now, it's probably inevitable -- they're the same beast, reactionaries that are disenchanted with liberalism (i mean this in the historical sense). the difference is probably a matter of degree of sophistication in ideology. this is the backlash to the wave of progressivism we're currently in the throes of, and i'm not excited to see how it develops, and how much it can break into the mainstream.
posted by p3on at 5:07 PM on August 13, 2015 [19 favorites]
I really find this term disgusting. Seriously disgusting.
posted by irisclara at 5:11 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by irisclara at 5:11 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
the emergence of this term from /pol/ is something i've been paying attention to, loosely, and i think what it represents is the ongoing crystalization a new faction of hard-right ideology native to the internet.
I'm not sure if it is just an Internet thing. I feel like Trump being so seriously considered by Republicans has to be a part of the same exact psychology bubbling up even among less internet connected conservatives, but the internet movement alone doesn't have that sort of influence yet. (I hope) But yeah, when I (vomit) glanced at Coontown before the ban I was shocked at how...2015 it was compared to other white supremacist sites. It's like the children of older white supremacists taking over the movement and finding their own new take on it right before our eyes.
Is nuking it from orbit an option?
posted by Drinky Die at 5:14 PM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
I'm not sure if it is just an Internet thing. I feel like Trump being so seriously considered by Republicans has to be a part of the same exact psychology bubbling up even among less internet connected conservatives, but the internet movement alone doesn't have that sort of influence yet. (I hope) But yeah, when I (vomit) glanced at Coontown before the ban I was shocked at how...2015 it was compared to other white supremacist sites. It's like the children of older white supremacists taking over the movement and finding their own new take on it right before our eyes.
Is nuking it from orbit an option?
posted by Drinky Die at 5:14 PM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
All right-wing ideology is basically eroticized humiliation
I'm reminded of Pynchon's sado-anarchism:
"Why will the Structure allow every other kind of sexual behavior but that one? Because submission and dominance are resources it needs for its very survival. They cannot be wasted in private sex. [...] It needs our submission so that it may remain in power. [...] if S and M could be established universally, at the family level, the State would wither away. This is Sado-anarchism"
posted by thelonius at 5:16 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
I'm reminded of Pynchon's sado-anarchism:
"Why will the Structure allow every other kind of sexual behavior but that one? Because submission and dominance are resources it needs for its very survival. They cannot be wasted in private sex. [...] It needs our submission so that it may remain in power. [...] if S and M could be established universally, at the family level, the State would wither away. This is Sado-anarchism"
posted by thelonius at 5:16 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
Thanks nadawi and Avenger. I am now as horrified as the rest of you.
posted by zug at 5:17 PM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by zug at 5:17 PM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
We Hunted the Mammoth has a good introduction to this, too.
posted by dhens at 5:19 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by dhens at 5:19 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
“Cuckservative” is a Racist Slur
Holy shit. You poor poor conservatives.
By the way, I'm going to use this phrase till the end of time.
hal_c_on
....why would you use this phrase? It's an insult from ultra conservatives at conservatives they feel are too willing to concede on race issues. or even pay lip service to them. According to these idiots that use it, "If you're a white conservative but don't stand up for whites, then you're a cuckservative."
Making conservatives feel like it's not okay to consider race issues is not something I want to encourage in any shape or form, even as a crowing, snickering progressive.
posted by Karaage at 5:21 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Holy shit. You poor poor conservatives.
By the way, I'm going to use this phrase till the end of time.
hal_c_on
....why would you use this phrase? It's an insult from ultra conservatives at conservatives they feel are too willing to concede on race issues. or even pay lip service to them. According to these idiots that use it, "If you're a white conservative but don't stand up for whites, then you're a cuckservative."
Making conservatives feel like it's not okay to consider race issues is not something I want to encourage in any shape or form, even as a crowing, snickering progressive.
posted by Karaage at 5:21 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
the emergence of this term from /pol/ is something i've been paying attention to, loosely, and i think what it represents is the ongoing crystalization a new faction of hard-right ideology native to the internet.
I'm not sure if it is just an Internet thing. I feel like Trump being so seriously considered by Republicans has to be a part of the same exact psychology bubbling up even among less internet connected conservatives, but the internet movement alone doesn't have that sort of influence yet. (I hope) But yeah, when I (vomit) glanced at Coontown before the ban I was shocked at how...2015 it was compared to other white supremacist sites. It's like the children of older white supremacists taking over the movement and finding their own new take on it right before our eyes.
Is nuking it from orbit an option?
I tell you what: I'd rather die in a nuclear fireball than find myself in the situation of civilization collapsing because of global warming induce stressors, and I find out that some of these monsters are the best armed in the neighborhood. And I'm a white male American.
...
Seriously I have nightmares about this. The conservative fringe scares me.
posted by Caduceus at 5:23 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure if it is just an Internet thing. I feel like Trump being so seriously considered by Republicans has to be a part of the same exact psychology bubbling up even among less internet connected conservatives, but the internet movement alone doesn't have that sort of influence yet. (I hope) But yeah, when I (vomit) glanced at Coontown before the ban I was shocked at how...2015 it was compared to other white supremacist sites. It's like the children of older white supremacists taking over the movement and finding their own new take on it right before our eyes.
Is nuking it from orbit an option?
I tell you what: I'd rather die in a nuclear fireball than find myself in the situation of civilization collapsing because of global warming induce stressors, and I find out that some of these monsters are the best armed in the neighborhood. And I'm a white male American.
...
Seriously I have nightmares about this. The conservative fringe scares me.
posted by Caduceus at 5:23 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
We Hunted the Mammoth has a good introduction to this, too.
And of course Vox Day is in on all this.
posted by Caduceus at 5:27 PM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
And of course Vox Day is in on all this.
posted by Caduceus at 5:27 PM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
It's like a fucking hydra of awful.
posted by Artw at 5:29 PM on August 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:29 PM on August 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
All right-wing ideology is basically eroticized humiliation
This is very Zizek. I hope he writes about this stuff!
posted by naju at 5:34 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is very Zizek. I hope he writes about this stuff!
posted by naju at 5:34 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
The writer of the Breitbart piece? Milo Yiannopoulos, whom you may know from his role as Gamergate's far-right mouthpiece.
One of the tweets Eric Erickson quotes? Andrew Auernheimer, whom you may know as a serial troll, neo-Nazi convert, and harasser of Kathy Sierra and other women.
I'm not one to buy into Erickson's "no true Scotsman" argument, but I think he does have a point: The people pushing this aren't people in the mainstream of conservative thought, even in the mainstream of far right thought. They're Internet trolls and hangers-on that have found a willing audience of red meat loving fringe conservatives who would "just want to watch the world burn." And like Gamergate, a portion of the conservative base is too stupid to realize this, so they just parrot it.
I do find it funny that Erickson is desperately trying to hit the brakes on this monster he helped create. He's like Wile E. Coyote coming to the sudden realization that he's going off the cliff.
posted by dw at 5:34 PM on August 13, 2015 [29 favorites]
One of the tweets Eric Erickson quotes? Andrew Auernheimer, whom you may know as a serial troll, neo-Nazi convert, and harasser of Kathy Sierra and other women.
I'm not one to buy into Erickson's "no true Scotsman" argument, but I think he does have a point: The people pushing this aren't people in the mainstream of conservative thought, even in the mainstream of far right thought. They're Internet trolls and hangers-on that have found a willing audience of red meat loving fringe conservatives who would "just want to watch the world burn." And like Gamergate, a portion of the conservative base is too stupid to realize this, so they just parrot it.
I do find it funny that Erickson is desperately trying to hit the brakes on this monster he helped create. He's like Wile E. Coyote coming to the sudden realization that he's going off the cliff.
posted by dw at 5:34 PM on August 13, 2015 [29 favorites]
Seriously I have nightmares about this. The conservative fringe scares me.
Yeah, me too. They talk about how we need guns to protect ourselves from the government, but a country with this many guns in a state of anarchy is something I'm a lot more scared of.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:35 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, me too. They talk about how we need guns to protect ourselves from the government, but a country with this many guns in a state of anarchy is something I'm a lot more scared of.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:35 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't know that there's any use in trying to make this term make analogical sense in any real way. I think you have to be so through-the-looking-glass of the racist-misogynistic-victim-culture that it just works on a lizard-brain emotional level.
But I think that the existence of a racially-coded fetish designed to bring about both sexual arousal and moral outrage, such that the viewer spits vitriol all over the comment sections of porn made explicitly for him and this specific fetish, by people whom the viewer has pre-packaged reasons to despise, where the consumer never ever has to consider that this is only there because it is exactly what he wants, so that he can continue his cycle of getting off and then outrage, well...
That's just about the single most right-wing thing I've ever considered.
posted by Navelgazer at 5:38 PM on August 13, 2015 [12 favorites]
But I think that the existence of a racially-coded fetish designed to bring about both sexual arousal and moral outrage, such that the viewer spits vitriol all over the comment sections of porn made explicitly for him and this specific fetish, by people whom the viewer has pre-packaged reasons to despise, where the consumer never ever has to consider that this is only there because it is exactly what he wants, so that he can continue his cycle of getting off and then outrage, well...
That's just about the single most right-wing thing I've ever considered.
posted by Navelgazer at 5:38 PM on August 13, 2015 [12 favorites]
..the people pushing this aren't people in the mainstream of conservative thought, even in the mainstream of far right thought...
Perhaps. However, if the past few decades of living through the rise of the right has taught me anything, it's that the conservative movement will always chase (and embrace) the goalposts, no matter how far over the edge they move. I honestly think there are no limits to how radical the conservative movement will become now. In 20 years, people will be pining for the return of the calm, reasoned politics of Ted Cruz.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:48 PM on August 13, 2015
Perhaps. However, if the past few decades of living through the rise of the right has taught me anything, it's that the conservative movement will always chase (and embrace) the goalposts, no matter how far over the edge they move. I honestly think there are no limits to how radical the conservative movement will become now. In 20 years, people will be pining for the return of the calm, reasoned politics of Ted Cruz.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:48 PM on August 13, 2015
Remember that the current Conservative Thought model is to watch for stuff like this to bubble up in the cesspools, get more and more mainstream media outlets to talk about it, and use the "balance" granted to such issues to legitimize it as acceptable. Wash Rinse Repeat.
posted by Navelgazer at 5:50 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 5:50 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't know that there's any use in trying to make this term make analogical sense in any real way. I think you have to be so through-the-looking-glass of the racist-misogynistic-victim-culture that it just works on a lizard-brain emotional level.
there is a logic to it: the net cultures i mentioned in my earlier comment use 'cuck' to deride men who participate particularly in feminist narratives, implying their masculinity has been subverted and they're 'beta', to the point that their spouses sleep with other men because they have failed to perform as a man [eg, this is the root of the 'anthony burch is a cuck' meme]. to this outlook, which explicitly identifies itself as anti-feminist, feminism is a plot to destroy white masculinity. 'cuckservative' as an outgrowth of this extends the metaphor of the man who has been feminized by ideology, to the man who has been 'reduced' in a similar fashion ideologically by not going all-in on reactionary sentiment -- flirting with racism without being explicit being the case here. the racial angle of cuckolding complicates this by invoking racist tropes but that's the core of it.
posted by p3on at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
there is a logic to it: the net cultures i mentioned in my earlier comment use 'cuck' to deride men who participate particularly in feminist narratives, implying their masculinity has been subverted and they're 'beta', to the point that their spouses sleep with other men because they have failed to perform as a man [eg, this is the root of the 'anthony burch is a cuck' meme]. to this outlook, which explicitly identifies itself as anti-feminist, feminism is a plot to destroy white masculinity. 'cuckservative' as an outgrowth of this extends the metaphor of the man who has been feminized by ideology, to the man who has been 'reduced' in a similar fashion ideologically by not going all-in on reactionary sentiment -- flirting with racism without being explicit being the case here. the racial angle of cuckolding complicates this by invoking racist tropes but that's the core of it.
posted by p3on at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
A disenfranchised racist is still a racist, actually.
They are not disenfranchised until they can't vote.
posted by srboisvert at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
They are not disenfranchised until they can't vote.
posted by srboisvert at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
The MRA/Red Pill/#GamerGate obsession with "cuck" has always amused me. They don't seem to realize what it says about their psychology and how pathetic it makes them look.
It's kind of disturbing to see it being used more broadly, though.
posted by brundlefly at 5:55 PM on August 13, 2015
It's kind of disturbing to see it being used more broadly, though.
posted by brundlefly at 5:55 PM on August 13, 2015
Maybe Pynchon's idea is the right approach - why not invent weird psychosexual reifications of whatever politics?
- Daddy bear gays seducing innocent metrosexual sports fans as a metaphor for publicly funded sports stadiums.
- Feminist bohemian intelligentsia engaging in platonic furry scenes to illustrate gentrification and the latest trends in urban planning and design
- Lesbians who secretly fantasize about straight romance novels set in the Antebellum South and the problem of All Lives Matter middle class liberalism
- A radical pagan commune that kidnaps Rush Limbaugh who gets a major case of stockholm syndrome and ends up married to an experimental composer with 5 foot long dreadlocks and a permaculture garden
MetaFilter: Feminist bohemian intelligentsia engaging in platonic furry scenes to illustrate gentrification and the latest trends in urban planning and design
posted by overeducated_alligator at 5:58 PM on August 13, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by overeducated_alligator at 5:58 PM on August 13, 2015 [20 favorites]
A number of "alt-right" web sites are really, really into the word. There seems to be a great deal of pride and glee that their nasty little insult has crossed over into mainstream discourse and is pushing mainstream Republican buttons.
[TW/CW: racism, sexism, right-wing politics]
What is a #Cuckservative? [Occam's Razor]
For Whom The Bell Cucks [therightstuff.biz]
The Response To #Cuckservative Shows Why It's Effective [therightstuff.biz]
The Alt-Right as Disruption: Crashing the #Cuckservative Industrial Complex with No Survivors [atlanticcenturion.wordpress.com]
posted by theorique at 6:03 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
[TW/CW: racism, sexism, right-wing politics]
What is a #Cuckservative? [Occam's Razor]
For Whom The Bell Cucks [therightstuff.biz]
The Response To #Cuckservative Shows Why It's Effective [therightstuff.biz]
The Alt-Right as Disruption: Crashing the #Cuckservative Industrial Complex with No Survivors [atlanticcenturion.wordpress.com]
posted by theorique at 6:03 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
4chan is slowly but surely taking control of the American political process.
posted by Sangermaine at 6:06 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by Sangermaine at 6:06 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
p3on wrote: i'd imagine there are probably communal links to dark enlightenment types - indeed true.
The links I posted above do seem to overlap with so-called "NRX" / Neo-Reactionary / Dark Enlightenment, although my sense is that they are a bit further to the right.
posted by theorique at 6:06 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
The links I posted above do seem to overlap with so-called "NRX" / Neo-Reactionary / Dark Enlightenment, although my sense is that they are a bit further to the right.
posted by theorique at 6:06 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think understanding this works better if you don't think about it logically in terms of what the words "mean" and just accept that this is a term of mockery used by extremists against anyone in their party who doesn't want to join them in their extremism. It doesn't really matter what the origin of the word is; lots of slurs don't actually make much sense if you think about them. Their power comes from their ability to make you feel isolated, judged and deemed insufficient.
posted by emjaybee at 6:08 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 6:08 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Daddy bear gays seducing innocent metrosexual sports fans as a metaphor for publicly funded sports stadiums.
Somebody on some sports forum is espousing this as a legit conspiracy, right now.
Feminist bohemian intelligentsia engaging in platonic furry scenes to illustrate gentrification and the latest trends in urban planning and design
You could probably find that on Tumblr in like 3 clicks.
Lesbians who secretly fantasize about straight romance novels set in the Antebellum South and the problem of All Lives Matter middle class liberalism
There's got to be at least one lady on Metafilter who did a double take when she read that, wondering if you were somehow talking about her.
A radical pagan commune that kidnaps Rush Limbaugh who gets a major case of stockholm syndrome and ends up married to an experimental composer with 5 foot long dreadlocks and a permaculture garden
Chance would be a fine thing.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 6:09 PM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
Somebody on some sports forum is espousing this as a legit conspiracy, right now.
Feminist bohemian intelligentsia engaging in platonic furry scenes to illustrate gentrification and the latest trends in urban planning and design
You could probably find that on Tumblr in like 3 clicks.
Lesbians who secretly fantasize about straight romance novels set in the Antebellum South and the problem of All Lives Matter middle class liberalism
There's got to be at least one lady on Metafilter who did a double take when she read that, wondering if you were somehow talking about her.
A radical pagan commune that kidnaps Rush Limbaugh who gets a major case of stockholm syndrome and ends up married to an experimental composer with 5 foot long dreadlocks and a permaculture garden
Chance would be a fine thing.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 6:09 PM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
It has the John Derbyshire seal of approval. That would be the John Derbyshire who was too racist for the National Review.
posted by brundlefly at 6:09 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by brundlefly at 6:09 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
wise intellectual John "I wrote a review of Lolita in the voice of Humbert Humbert, but not on purpose" Derbyshire
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:18 PM on August 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:18 PM on August 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
I think understanding this works better if you don't think about it logically in terms of what the words "mean" and just accept that this is a term of mockery used by extremists against anyone in their party who doesn't want to join them in their extremism. It doesn't really matter what the origin of the word is; lots of slurs don't actually make much sense if you think about them. Their power comes from their ability to make you feel isolated, judged and deemed insufficient.
This is something you learn the hard way by reading Stormfront threads.
Advice: do not.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:20 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is something you learn the hard way by reading Stormfront threads.
Advice: do not.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:20 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh, man. That Lolita piece makes me want to punch something.
posted by brundlefly at 6:26 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by brundlefly at 6:26 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Which is all to say that, with no real evidence (perhaps partially because the media doesn't investigate or acknowledge the ideologies of the people who commit these crimes), I worry that mass shootings and similar violence in America is the result of conservative bigots lashing out as they perceive that their world is being taken away from them, and that it's going to continue, if not get worse, if/as we continue to elect Democratic presidents and make other progressive, well, progress as a nation.
And the problem is that these are the terrorists who are locked, cocked and ready to rock. They're the sleeper cells of this leaderless resistance who have the firepower to fuck up people's lives and do so pretty regularly. But I don't see Homeland Security putting out bulletins on that.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:26 PM on August 13, 2015
And the problem is that these are the terrorists who are locked, cocked and ready to rock. They're the sleeper cells of this leaderless resistance who have the firepower to fuck up people's lives and do so pretty regularly. But I don't see Homeland Security putting out bulletins on that.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:26 PM on August 13, 2015
Damn....it was so nice having forgotten about John Derbyshire.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:29 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:29 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think understanding this works better if you don't think about it logically in terms of what the words "mean" and just accept that this is a term of mockery used by extremists against anyone in their party who doesn't want to join them in their extremism.
you're doing yourself a disservice. the people behind this aren't unsophisticated -- see theorique's links. they operate very much as a wave of reaction to feminism's cultural nascence in popular/social media. i believe this is the beginning of a new ideological wave of something along the lines of fascism, but suited to our historical moment. i'm not trying to be inflammatory with that statement.
for young white men, unless they are explicitly predisposed towards leftism for whatever reason, they're going to be looking around at a new media landscape popularly dominated by progressives, one filled with discussions of privilege and questioning white hegemony and deriding male chauvinism. they feel personally attacked by these, and feel alienated by these narratives because they weren't necessarily immersed in the old narratives being challenged by them. to them, this is simply what our culture is, and in their alienation they flee to enclaves of others who feel similarly.
but now, apparently, they've had enough time to organize. what political alternative do they choose? a reactionary, white supremacist one, directly in response to the perceived attacks from those on the left. they're drawing on older and deeper ideas than the traditional left-right split in US politics, they're straight up challenging liberal modernity, advocating to tear the whole project to the ground because their dominance is being challenged.
if this sounds hyperbolic in response to a bunch of channers, i understand, but they're clearly getting better at organizing which i find alarming. i think what really started driving this home to me was reading autoadmit (basically 4chan for law students) and seeing /pol/ rhetoric bandied about freely -- these weren't neet virgins, these were law students. i don't know, man. i'm worried.
posted by p3on at 6:31 PM on August 13, 2015 [47 favorites]
you're doing yourself a disservice. the people behind this aren't unsophisticated -- see theorique's links. they operate very much as a wave of reaction to feminism's cultural nascence in popular/social media. i believe this is the beginning of a new ideological wave of something along the lines of fascism, but suited to our historical moment. i'm not trying to be inflammatory with that statement.
for young white men, unless they are explicitly predisposed towards leftism for whatever reason, they're going to be looking around at a new media landscape popularly dominated by progressives, one filled with discussions of privilege and questioning white hegemony and deriding male chauvinism. they feel personally attacked by these, and feel alienated by these narratives because they weren't necessarily immersed in the old narratives being challenged by them. to them, this is simply what our culture is, and in their alienation they flee to enclaves of others who feel similarly.
but now, apparently, they've had enough time to organize. what political alternative do they choose? a reactionary, white supremacist one, directly in response to the perceived attacks from those on the left. they're drawing on older and deeper ideas than the traditional left-right split in US politics, they're straight up challenging liberal modernity, advocating to tear the whole project to the ground because their dominance is being challenged.
if this sounds hyperbolic in response to a bunch of channers, i understand, but they're clearly getting better at organizing which i find alarming. i think what really started driving this home to me was reading autoadmit (basically 4chan for law students) and seeing /pol/ rhetoric bandied about freely -- these weren't neet virgins, these were law students. i don't know, man. i'm worried.
posted by p3on at 6:31 PM on August 13, 2015 [47 favorites]
So if progressives supposedly have a circular firing squad, what the hell do conservatives have?
posted by halifix at 6:32 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by halifix at 6:32 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
The rise of Trump and #cuckservative are linked phenomena, and absolutely hilarious to watch.
On the one hand, the GOP establishment is totally unable to handle Trump - none of their candidates could "take him out" and he brought Fox News to heel in a weekend, utterly vanquished in a way that liberals could only dream of.
On the other hand, they're completely flummoxed by the revelation that a significant and highly visible chunk of criticism is aimed at them from the right. At first, and I think some still believe this, they thought it was coming from deep-cover liberal trolls and/or Hillary activists. Now that they've processed that no, there are actually quite a few outright fascists out there and they're getting airtime, they don't know what to do except say "well they're sexist and racist and anti-democratic" to which the alt-right response is: "Yes, so what?"
The bottom line is they just literally can't even with these people and the histrionic, tremulous responses from the usual GOP mouthpieces show it. It portends something interesting, maybe (hopefully) a crack-up on the Right is coming, into moderate & extreme parties, which would be a boon to the Left (see e.g. the recent McCaskill/Akin post) if it doesn't suffer a similar breakup. One can only hope.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 6:35 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
On the one hand, the GOP establishment is totally unable to handle Trump - none of their candidates could "take him out" and he brought Fox News to heel in a weekend, utterly vanquished in a way that liberals could only dream of.
On the other hand, they're completely flummoxed by the revelation that a significant and highly visible chunk of criticism is aimed at them from the right. At first, and I think some still believe this, they thought it was coming from deep-cover liberal trolls and/or Hillary activists. Now that they've processed that no, there are actually quite a few outright fascists out there and they're getting airtime, they don't know what to do except say "well they're sexist and racist and anti-democratic" to which the alt-right response is: "Yes, so what?"
The bottom line is they just literally can't even with these people and the histrionic, tremulous responses from the usual GOP mouthpieces show it. It portends something interesting, maybe (hopefully) a crack-up on the Right is coming, into moderate & extreme parties, which would be a boon to the Left (see e.g. the recent McCaskill/Akin post) if it doesn't suffer a similar breakup. One can only hope.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 6:35 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
So if progressives supposedly have a circular firing squad, what the hell do conservatives have?
A shark feeding frenzy where the chum is the sharks?
posted by Sangermaine at 6:36 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
A shark feeding frenzy where the chum is the sharks?
posted by Sangermaine at 6:36 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
So if progressives supposedly have a circular firing squad, what the hell do conservatives have?
Russian Roulette?
posted by Drinky Die at 6:37 PM on August 13, 2015
Russian Roulette?
posted by Drinky Die at 6:37 PM on August 13, 2015
So if progressives supposedly have a circular firing squad, what the hell do conservatives have?
A shitload of cuckold porn, apparently.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:39 PM on August 13, 2015 [37 favorites]
A shitload of cuckold porn, apparently.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:39 PM on August 13, 2015 [37 favorites]
You know, I've read like five descriptions of what the word means now, and I can sort of wrap my head around while I'm reading it, but five seconds later I'm confused about it again. Its a stupid sounding word that makes both the user and the reader more stupid every time they encounter it. In addition to being just plain racist, sexist and generally offensive, the word should be retired from all use immediately for being the most moronic word ever coined. And I'm including "dipthong" and "bumfuzzle."
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:39 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:39 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Suddenly I'm re-evaluating the metaphorical usage of the word circle-jerk in modern political discourse.
posted by idiopath at 6:41 PM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 6:41 PM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Sometimes I forget how deeply weird a lot of conservative are.
posted by octothorpe at 6:42 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:42 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is all just simply wonderhorrible.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:43 PM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:43 PM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
I think it's unfair to include harmless little circle-jerk in this discussion
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:43 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:43 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
i'm beginning to wonder if a case could be made that the internet, instead of making a new frontier of freedom and a brave new world possible, is actively ruining society - more and more, it seems to be bringing out the worst in people
posted by pyramid termite at 6:44 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 6:44 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Here's my big-picture take on this:
Demographic forces are pushing the electorate as a whole to the left. Non-whites comprise a bigger chunk of the populace every day. Younger cohorts are more progressive, and they stay progressive as they get older. And as the Baby Boomers age, the proportion of women among them will grow.
These are largely unstoppable forces. The so-called "moderates" and elite members of the Republican party machine realize this. They know that they will never win another Presidential election if they cannot pick up more Latinos, women, and young folks. That requires them to move just a bit to the left -- e.g., by embracing immigration reform and not alienating women outright.
But the mouth-breathers in the Republican party are not thinking strategically. They are too delusional and stupid to think strategically. They don't realize they are in a losing, shrinking minority of the electorate. Furthermore, they are constitutionally incapable of compromise. To them, the elites and the "moderates" in the party are selling them out, and boy are they pissed.
The mouth-breathers honestly believe that all they need to do is select a truth-talking, smash-mouth, take-no-prisoners candidate like Donald Trump, and the rest of the Republicans will all rally around him to win the election. They think that if they don't take a stand now, Amurica will literally collapse, and therefore, anybody who isn't with them is basically a traitor.
posted by mikeand1 at 6:44 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Demographic forces are pushing the electorate as a whole to the left. Non-whites comprise a bigger chunk of the populace every day. Younger cohorts are more progressive, and they stay progressive as they get older. And as the Baby Boomers age, the proportion of women among them will grow.
These are largely unstoppable forces. The so-called "moderates" and elite members of the Republican party machine realize this. They know that they will never win another Presidential election if they cannot pick up more Latinos, women, and young folks. That requires them to move just a bit to the left -- e.g., by embracing immigration reform and not alienating women outright.
But the mouth-breathers in the Republican party are not thinking strategically. They are too delusional and stupid to think strategically. They don't realize they are in a losing, shrinking minority of the electorate. Furthermore, they are constitutionally incapable of compromise. To them, the elites and the "moderates" in the party are selling them out, and boy are they pissed.
The mouth-breathers honestly believe that all they need to do is select a truth-talking, smash-mouth, take-no-prisoners candidate like Donald Trump, and the rest of the Republicans will all rally around him to win the election. They think that if they don't take a stand now, Amurica will literally collapse, and therefore, anybody who isn't with them is basically a traitor.
posted by mikeand1 at 6:44 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
When John Kaisch talked recently about his "hot wife", who knew that this is what he meant?
posted by markkraft at 6:53 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by markkraft at 6:53 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh, I think I've got it. You know that chasing of a more perfect ideal/union/government, where you can only get more perfect? It's like that but for the pursuit of bias and being self-serving. When others turn out to not be as uncompromising as you, you leave them behind and blast them with insults.
They're making the perfect asshole.
posted by halifix at 6:53 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
They're making the perfect asshole.
posted by halifix at 6:53 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
it was very much driven by the women, not the men, and racial catharsis was an acknowledged part of it — that the men were black made it more transgressive than the already extant subversion of monogamous assumptions. It was to emphasize that the men were something that their white husbands could never be: black.
How is white women fetishing black men as the quintessential other ("something that their white husbands could never be") racial catharsis rather than straight-up racism?
posted by layceepee at 6:55 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
How is white women fetishing black men as the quintessential other ("something that their white husbands could never be") racial catharsis rather than straight-up racism?
posted by layceepee at 6:55 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Younger cohorts are more progressive, and they stay progressive as they get older.
I read (maybe here) the suggestion that the Millennial generation doesn't go "Eek!" when conservative politicians throw around the word communism. It's just not as threatening to them, which may make socialism via B. Sanders easier to sell. (I'm crossing my fingers.)
posted by puddledork at 6:56 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I read (maybe here) the suggestion that the Millennial generation doesn't go "Eek!" when conservative politicians throw around the word communism. It's just not as threatening to them, which may make socialism via B. Sanders easier to sell. (I'm crossing my fingers.)
posted by puddledork at 6:56 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Just looked up cuckold. Where is the racist stuff? Doesn't say anything about race.
cuck·old
ˈkəkəld,-ōld/
nounarchaic
noun: cuckold; plural noun: cuckolds
1.
the husband of an adulteress, often regarded as an object of derision.
verb
verb: cuckold; 3rd person present: cuckolds; past tense: cuckolded; past participle: cuckolded; gerund or present participle: cuckolding
1.
(of a man) make (another man) a cuckold by having a sexual relationship with his wife.
(of a man's wife) make (her husband) a cuckold.
Origin
late Old English, from Old French cucuault, from cucu ‘cuckoo’ (from the cuckoo's habit of laying its egg in another bird's nest). The equivalent words in French and other languages applied to both the bird and the adulterer; cuckold has never been applied to the bird in English.
Translate cuckold to
Use over time for: cuckold
posted by notreally at 6:56 PM on August 13, 2015
And I just looked up "lynch."
to put to death (as by hanging) by mob action without legal sanction
posted by RobotHero at 7:01 PM on August 13, 2015 [12 favorites]
to put to death (as by hanging) by mob action without legal sanction
posted by RobotHero at 7:01 PM on August 13, 2015 [12 favorites]
Oh, notreally, if only I could return to that state.
posted by Artw at 7:02 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:02 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
i'm beginning to wonder if a case could be made that the internet, instead of making a new frontier of freedom and a brave new world possible, is actively ruining society - more and more, it seems to be bringing out the worst in people
I think the internet is making visible a lot of the ugliness that, in the past, only people who were marginalized saw, because it was aimed at them in person. A lot of the hatred on the internet is nothing new to people of color and women (including women of color).
posted by sallybrown at 7:04 PM on August 13, 2015 [20 favorites]
I think the internet is making visible a lot of the ugliness that, in the past, only people who were marginalized saw, because it was aimed at them in person. A lot of the hatred on the internet is nothing new to people of color and women (including women of color).
posted by sallybrown at 7:04 PM on August 13, 2015 [20 favorites]
"Just looked up cuckold. Where is the racist stuff? Doesn't say anything about race."
You're looking in the dictionary; look it up on Pornhub.
posted by mikeand1 at 7:05 PM on August 13, 2015 [22 favorites]
You're looking in the dictionary; look it up on Pornhub.
posted by mikeand1 at 7:05 PM on August 13, 2015 [22 favorites]
And as the Baby Boomers age, the proportion of women among them will grow.
Crone Island strikes again.
posted by emjaybee at 7:05 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
Crone Island strikes again.
posted by emjaybee at 7:05 PM on August 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
Just looked up cuckold. Where is the racist stuff? Doesn't say anything about race.
There's a reason they call things like that "subtext." Because it's not in the text.
Tbh I'm not sure that I actually go along with the racial subtext interpretation, I'll call it food for thought for now, but the idea is that this nation has a long standing history of the conservative white man fearing being cuckolded by a "Mandingo" type, essentially a sweaty savage with a big swinging dick who if allowed any freedom, will head directly to the nearest white woman and rape her (can't really be a "seduction" because a proper white woman, like a child, is incapable of legitimately consenting to sex with one of the swarthy races.)
Anyway, so by way of metaphor, Obama is the sweaty black buck and the cuckservative is the politician who's letting him defile the purity of white race, er, country by looking the other way while he's fucking us over. Or something like that, I think.
posted by xigxag at 7:09 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's a reason they call things like that "subtext." Because it's not in the text.
Tbh I'm not sure that I actually go along with the racial subtext interpretation, I'll call it food for thought for now, but the idea is that this nation has a long standing history of the conservative white man fearing being cuckolded by a "Mandingo" type, essentially a sweaty savage with a big swinging dick who if allowed any freedom, will head directly to the nearest white woman and rape her (can't really be a "seduction" because a proper white woman, like a child, is incapable of legitimately consenting to sex with one of the swarthy races.)
Anyway, so by way of metaphor, Obama is the sweaty black buck and the cuckservative is the politician who's letting him defile the purity of white race, er, country by looking the other way while he's fucking us over. Or something like that, I think.
posted by xigxag at 7:09 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
The dictionary is going to tell you what cuckold meant when Shakespeare used it, not what it means in American online culture in 2015.
posted by theodolite at 7:13 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 7:13 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Mod note: folks, whipping out the dictionary is a manifestly silly way to have a nuanced discussion. Please don't.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 7:15 PM on August 13, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 7:15 PM on August 13, 2015 [19 favorites]
I whip out my dictionary and my robe and wizard hat.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:18 PM on August 13, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:18 PM on August 13, 2015 [21 favorites]
i think what really started driving this home to me was reading autoadmit
Autoadmit? FUUUCCCKK those guys. Absolute scum.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:22 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Autoadmit? FUUUCCCKK those guys. Absolute scum.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:22 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
You heard the mods, DO NOT WHIP IT OUT.
posted by Artw at 7:22 PM on August 13, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:22 PM on August 13, 2015 [14 favorites]
When in doubt, I whip it out. I've got me a dictionary: it's a free-for-all.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:23 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:23 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also probably do not use PornHub as a dictionary in conventional settings.
posted by Artw at 7:25 PM on August 13, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:25 PM on August 13, 2015 [21 favorites]
Okay, yeah, my kneejerk reaction to "argumentum ad dictionarium" aside, I will agree that where I've heard people use "cuckold" it has a lot more sexist connotations than racist connotations. Maybe other people have heard more racist connotations than me.
Extrapolating from the 4chan / GG connection, I think the point they're trying to make is agreeing with the Anti-Cuckold (AC for short) is the True Natural Way. If a conservative agrees with the AC, they are sincere. If they disagree, then they are insincere and too weak to stand up for the AC's convictions. The possibility that they don't actually share the AC's convictions is beyond the AC's ability to comprehend.
The sexism comes in because the cuckold is the most insulting analogy the AC can think of. The cuckold is not strong enough, not virile enough, not man enough, to keep his wife under control.
The racism really should come in from the part where racists are using it to complain that other conservatives aren't being racist enough; no need to concern yourself with the connotations of "cuckold" when you've got a slam-dunk like that.
posted by RobotHero at 7:28 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Extrapolating from the 4chan / GG connection, I think the point they're trying to make is agreeing with the Anti-Cuckold (AC for short) is the True Natural Way. If a conservative agrees with the AC, they are sincere. If they disagree, then they are insincere and too weak to stand up for the AC's convictions. The possibility that they don't actually share the AC's convictions is beyond the AC's ability to comprehend.
The sexism comes in because the cuckold is the most insulting analogy the AC can think of. The cuckold is not strong enough, not virile enough, not man enough, to keep his wife under control.
The racism really should come in from the part where racists are using it to complain that other conservatives aren't being racist enough; no need to concern yourself with the connotations of "cuckold" when you've got a slam-dunk like that.
posted by RobotHero at 7:28 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I can only imagine how non-racist non-republican people with a cuckold fetish feel about this mess.
posted by Artw at 7:30 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:30 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
(Let's just assume my Nugent allusion was a reference to the Trump campaign.)
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:33 PM on August 13, 2015
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:33 PM on August 13, 2015
I can only imagine how non-racist non-republican people with a cuckold fetish feel about this mess.
-
Finally, a Republican group that understands me! *clicks on link*
= (
posted by Drinky Die at 7:35 PM on August 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
-
Finally, a Republican group that understands me! *clicks on link*
= (
posted by Drinky Die at 7:35 PM on August 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
So does this beat out the Tea Party using propaganda from Bioshock Infinite for most overtly racist thing to come out of the Right in recent years?
posted by brecc at 7:36 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by brecc at 7:36 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
SPLC also posted a recent article on the word and the phenomenon.
posted by theorique at 7:37 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by theorique at 7:37 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Proud 2 Be Bullocrat 😇
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:37 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:37 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just looked up cuckold. Where is the racist stuff? Doesn't say anything about race.
What does it have for 'creampie'?
posted by thelonius at 7:38 PM on August 13, 2015 [18 favorites]
What does it have for 'creampie'?
posted by thelonius at 7:38 PM on August 13, 2015 [18 favorites]
NOT THE PIE!
posted by Artw at 7:40 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:40 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Big Breakfast Croissant! #context
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:42 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:42 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
> Their vision of the future is a neverending frat party stomping on a human face.
With the sort of folks who toss around 'cuck' like they expect everyone to know what they're talking about, it's really not. Instead, they're the sort who hang out online and fawn over old videos of the Russian military and argue about which northern European women make the most demure and nationalistic wives. To them, a frat party is an example of decadence and cuckoldry. Their ideal white guy isn't a bro whose dad owns something: it's Putin. These are the same people who rage against Muslims one minute and then wistfully admire the "masculine" treatment of women in conservative Islam the next. They are 20 year old men who are already worried about their potential daughters' sexuality, especially the threat of interracial coupling.
Their vision of the future is a lot closer to the original boot quote.
posted by postcommunism at 7:55 PM on August 13, 2015 [12 favorites]
With the sort of folks who toss around 'cuck' like they expect everyone to know what they're talking about, it's really not. Instead, they're the sort who hang out online and fawn over old videos of the Russian military and argue about which northern European women make the most demure and nationalistic wives. To them, a frat party is an example of decadence and cuckoldry. Their ideal white guy isn't a bro whose dad owns something: it's Putin. These are the same people who rage against Muslims one minute and then wistfully admire the "masculine" treatment of women in conservative Islam the next. They are 20 year old men who are already worried about their potential daughters' sexuality, especially the threat of interracial coupling.
Their vision of the future is a lot closer to the original boot quote.
posted by postcommunism at 7:55 PM on August 13, 2015 [12 favorites]
I don't recall 'cuck' being a thing on 4chan until after the GGers were kicked out (I only visit the blue boards though). It became the obligatory way to slur moot. I still don't really see the appeal of the term as an insult, but there must be a certain kind of personality that does.
posted by Standard Orange at 7:57 PM on August 13, 2015
posted by Standard Orange at 7:57 PM on August 13, 2015
I'd make a cottage joke but I suspect that term is so outdated and English that I might as well be speaking Victorian London underworld slang.
posted by maxsparber at 7:57 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 7:57 PM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
"Cottage," "tea room"...tea party?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:02 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:02 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Now you're on the trolley!
posted by maxsparber at 8:03 PM on August 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 8:03 PM on August 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
It's a quaint British pastime that you should totally inquire about next time you visit the UK and you should not listen to the weirdos who tell you otherwise.
posted by Artw at 8:04 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:04 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Ask about "Dogging", one of the many Britisg country sports of interest! Don't worry - no animals are harmed.
posted by Artw at 8:05 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:05 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
No chavs? I guess it depends where one cottages.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:16 PM on August 13, 2015
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:16 PM on August 13, 2015
The funny thing is that there are Torontonians who will earnestly talk about "cottaging" in the Muskokas.
But real Northern Ontarians call cottages "camps," likely to avoid any unfortunate confusion.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:20 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
But real Northern Ontarians call cottages "camps," likely to avoid any unfortunate confusion.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:20 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Do conservatives know about brimping?
n.b. do not tell them about brimping, they will ruin it with some sick weird thing.
posted by Artw at 8:30 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
n.b. do not tell them about brimping, they will ruin it with some sick weird thing.
posted by Artw at 8:30 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
How the fuck can anyone call Donnie Trumpet "tough"?
This confused the hell out of me because I have Word Replacer set to replace "Donald Trump" with "Little Donny Trumpet" and you spelled it differently and without the "Little" and I had to doublecheck my settings.
posted by Foosnark at 8:33 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
This confused the hell out of me because I have Word Replacer set to replace "Donald Trump" with "Little Donny Trumpet" and you spelled it differently and without the "Little" and I had to doublecheck my settings.
posted by Foosnark at 8:33 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
~Just looked up cuckold. Where is the racist stuff? Doesn't say anything about race.
~You're looking in the dictionary; look it up on Pornhub.
Hell. Just randomly click Tumblr links. You can't not fall into that pool over there.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:35 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
~You're looking in the dictionary; look it up on Pornhub.
Hell. Just randomly click Tumblr links. You can't not fall into that pool over there.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:35 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is just depressing.
posted by newdaddy at 8:36 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by newdaddy at 8:36 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I dread this going more mainstream and receiving a call from my parents asking me to explain this. It is going to be worst than trying to convey the meaning of Bitcoin to them.
posted by mmascolino at 8:39 PM on August 13, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by mmascolino at 8:39 PM on August 13, 2015 [14 favorites]
"it's 'the southern strategy' but with fucking metaphors"
posted by nadawi at 8:42 PM on August 13, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 8:42 PM on August 13, 2015 [16 favorites]
Too many quotes and not enough Capital(s)? Genius!
posted by Xavier Xavier at 8:44 PM on August 13, 2015
posted by Xavier Xavier at 8:44 PM on August 13, 2015
Hey, since it hasn't been explicitly said here yet: if you put Conservative White Dude Fears on a venn diagram re: online cuck stuff, you would definitely find a heavy overlap with race. But it's not 100% about race.
However, you would absolutely find a 100% overlap with Losing Control of Women's Bodies. 'cause the "cuck" paradigm sure doesn't involve respecting women as thinking beings who can make their own choices.
Maybe we're all taking that part for granted in this discussion, and God knows there's a howling cave of horrors here, but I figured that should be part of the thread. (Maybe it was and I missed it in my review of said howling cave of horrors. I dunno. Wow, this is gross.)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:46 PM on August 13, 2015 [14 favorites]
However, you would absolutely find a 100% overlap with Losing Control of Women's Bodies. 'cause the "cuck" paradigm sure doesn't involve respecting women as thinking beings who can make their own choices.
Maybe we're all taking that part for granted in this discussion, and God knows there's a howling cave of horrors here, but I figured that should be part of the thread. (Maybe it was and I missed it in my review of said howling cave of horrors. I dunno. Wow, this is gross.)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:46 PM on August 13, 2015 [14 favorites]
SPLC also posted a recent article on the word and the phenomenon.
Ordinarily, I'd say "don't read the comments," but in theorique's link, it's worth doing so to see how many the mod for SPLC has had to delete.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:12 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ordinarily, I'd say "don't read the comments," but in theorique's link, it's worth doing so to see how many the mod for SPLC has had to delete.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:12 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
if they're gonna opine on cuck porn, they should probably ask some people who are into it about why they're into it, rather than just coding it as a function of racist white male desire
It's not "racist white male desire", it's racist white male FEAR. It's the ugly stereotype of black men as ravening lust-maddened beasts unable to control their animalistic desire for white women. It's deeply ugly and tremendously fucked up and, yes, racist.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:34 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's not "racist white male desire", it's racist white male FEAR. It's the ugly stereotype of black men as ravening lust-maddened beasts unable to control their animalistic desire for white women. It's deeply ugly and tremendously fucked up and, yes, racist.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:34 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
We'll know for sure if Asia someday becomes a threat and the Right refers to any party member insufficiently hardline as a bukkakeservative.
posted by Shibboleth at 10:06 PM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Shibboleth at 10:06 PM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
However, you would absolutely find a 100% overlap with Losing Control of Women's Bodies. 'cause the "cuck" paradigm sure doesn't involve respecting women as thinking beings who can make their own choices.
Yeah, and attached to that is also the toxic masculinity idea that men who can not physically dominate other men and women so as to avoid this sort of thing are weak and worthy of ridicule and humiliation. It's layers deep in problematic stuff. It goes on and on.
posted by Drinky Die at 11:15 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, and attached to that is also the toxic masculinity idea that men who can not physically dominate other men and women so as to avoid this sort of thing are weak and worthy of ridicule and humiliation. It's layers deep in problematic stuff. It goes on and on.
posted by Drinky Die at 11:15 PM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
And those lust-maddened beasts have bigger dicks than you. MUCH bigger. Amirite?
posted by Windopaene at 11:40 PM on August 13, 2015
posted by Windopaene at 11:40 PM on August 13, 2015
LoLly
posted by clavdivs at 12:12 AM on August 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 12:12 AM on August 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
So if progressives supposedly have a circular firing squad, what the hell do conservatives have?
posted by halifix at 18:32 on August 13
[1 favorite +] [!]
Long knives.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 12:32 AM on August 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by halifix at 18:32 on August 13
[1 favorite +] [!]
Long knives.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 12:32 AM on August 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
Cuckolding: the sexual-fetish for intellectuals
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 12:35 AM on August 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 12:35 AM on August 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
We don't seem to have had a story about an American conservative politician getting caught begging for cock in a public toilet for some time. Have the press just moved to a more understanding paradigm on that issue ?
posted by biffa at 1:14 AM on August 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by biffa at 1:14 AM on August 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
The theme of the cuckold has a very long history in storytelling, literature, and the stage. He is generally a figure of pity and mockery. The trope has been around for thousands of years, and this relatively recent arrival of "cuck porn" may be obscuring this history (as well as introducing an interesting, but ultimately tangential, racial element).
The problem and threat of being a cuckold is absolutely unique to men. While women can be the victim of infidelity or be humiliated in the sphere of sex, relationships, and marriage, they can't be cuckolded. The threat of cuckoldry is a unique, existential, and multifaceted, threat to a man - the children you thought were yours, are not yours; the wife you thought was faithful, is not faithful; the investment you thought you were making in your genetic future and bloodline is ultimately lost, given away to another man. Individually, these are powerful and emotional concepts; taken together, it's devastating. It's no wonder that storytellers both ancient and modern use the cuckold trope to illustrate a man being brought low and badly humiliated.
A contemporary example of this (and perhaps a canonical "cuckservative") is the character of Dale on King Of The Hill. Dale is a stereotypical paranoid, anti-government conservative who sees plots and cover-ups literally everywhere. At the same time, a recurring joke in the series is his wife Nancy's obvious sexual and romantic relationship with John Redcorn, the mysterious and masculine Indian. The clues are everywhere: John Redcorn has been Nancy's masseur for many years; "Dale's" son Joseph resembles John. The paranoid know-it-all is powerless to see the deception that is right at the heart of his family and home.
So make no mistake, the "cuckservative" insult is aimed specifically and exclusively at conservative men, and at their masculinity and sexuality. The insult frames a cuckold as a terrible thing to be - delusional, naive, and having lost his future. For most men, for most of history, being a cuckold was one of the worst things that could happen to them.
The recent advent of "cuck porn" has confused the issue somewhat, but the racial angle is subordinate to the sex-specific angle - the fact that a man's wife is cheating, and his children are not his own, is the primary problem; the race of her lover is secondary. As far as I can tell, the users of the "cuckservative" insult don't seem to personally harbor such porn fantasies (they appear to find them disgusting). Also, the aren't saying that the targets of the insult actually harbor such fantasies (although they certainly use them to mock the targets). Instead, they are accusing the mainstream conservatives of being naive, weak, men - men who have lost their future, and don't know it.
posted by theorique at 1:51 AM on August 14, 2015 [20 favorites]
The problem and threat of being a cuckold is absolutely unique to men. While women can be the victim of infidelity or be humiliated in the sphere of sex, relationships, and marriage, they can't be cuckolded. The threat of cuckoldry is a unique, existential, and multifaceted, threat to a man - the children you thought were yours, are not yours; the wife you thought was faithful, is not faithful; the investment you thought you were making in your genetic future and bloodline is ultimately lost, given away to another man. Individually, these are powerful and emotional concepts; taken together, it's devastating. It's no wonder that storytellers both ancient and modern use the cuckold trope to illustrate a man being brought low and badly humiliated.
A contemporary example of this (and perhaps a canonical "cuckservative") is the character of Dale on King Of The Hill. Dale is a stereotypical paranoid, anti-government conservative who sees plots and cover-ups literally everywhere. At the same time, a recurring joke in the series is his wife Nancy's obvious sexual and romantic relationship with John Redcorn, the mysterious and masculine Indian. The clues are everywhere: John Redcorn has been Nancy's masseur for many years; "Dale's" son Joseph resembles John. The paranoid know-it-all is powerless to see the deception that is right at the heart of his family and home.
So make no mistake, the "cuckservative" insult is aimed specifically and exclusively at conservative men, and at their masculinity and sexuality. The insult frames a cuckold as a terrible thing to be - delusional, naive, and having lost his future. For most men, for most of history, being a cuckold was one of the worst things that could happen to them.
The recent advent of "cuck porn" has confused the issue somewhat, but the racial angle is subordinate to the sex-specific angle - the fact that a man's wife is cheating, and his children are not his own, is the primary problem; the race of her lover is secondary. As far as I can tell, the users of the "cuckservative" insult don't seem to personally harbor such porn fantasies (they appear to find them disgusting). Also, the aren't saying that the targets of the insult actually harbor such fantasies (although they certainly use them to mock the targets). Instead, they are accusing the mainstream conservatives of being naive, weak, men - men who have lost their future, and don't know it.
posted by theorique at 1:51 AM on August 14, 2015 [20 favorites]
"Have the press just moved to a more understanding paradigm on that issue ?"
Ask and you shall recieve.
I'm thinking of running for one of those seats when they are up.
posted by clavdivs at 1:53 AM on August 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ask and you shall recieve.
I'm thinking of running for one of those seats when they are up.
posted by clavdivs at 1:53 AM on August 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
TDLR, is the only republican on metafilter bringing the dirt when dirt is the subject, because I'm doing the web baby dance.
posted by clavdivs at 1:56 AM on August 14, 2015
posted by clavdivs at 1:56 AM on August 14, 2015
The theme of the cuckold has a very long history in storytelling, literature, and the stage.
The word cuckold was always pretty obscure to me until I read Steven Pinker.
posted by bukvich at 5:58 AM on August 14, 2015
The word cuckold was always pretty obscure to me until I read Steven Pinker.
posted by bukvich at 5:58 AM on August 14, 2015
i don't think the racial issue is secondary, as even in the king of the hill example, the non-whiteness of the other man is a big plot point. also, it's not just a coincidence that this has gained traction under a black president.
and men who are so obsessed with the mixture of masculinity and sex totally watch porn or harbor fantasies that disgust them.
posted by nadawi at 6:21 AM on August 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
and men who are so obsessed with the mixture of masculinity and sex totally watch porn or harbor fantasies that disgust them.
posted by nadawi at 6:21 AM on August 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
In the King Of The Hill case, I always read the racial angle as a visual aspect of the overall joke - if the wife's lover were white, there would be plausible deniability about the son's parentage; the fact that Joseph (the son) is obviously mixed White-Indian makes Dale look even more foolish, and makes the joke clearer. (It would be interesting to know whether they made the character Indian to sidestep the more volatile black-white or hispanic-white racial issues).
I think you're right in that the deployment of the insult is specifically racial, the way it's being done in blogs and social media (i.e. "Messicans is gonna rape our wimmins") - but I still think the sex-specific factor comes first. Nobody's calling any Republican white women cuckservatives, to my knowledge.
posted by theorique at 6:53 AM on August 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think you're right in that the deployment of the insult is specifically racial, the way it's being done in blogs and social media (i.e. "Messicans is gonna rape our wimmins") - but I still think the sex-specific factor comes first. Nobody's calling any Republican white women cuckservatives, to my knowledge.
posted by theorique at 6:53 AM on August 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
oh absolutely the sexism angle is front and center no doubt about that.
posted by nadawi at 7:00 AM on August 14, 2015
posted by nadawi at 7:00 AM on August 14, 2015
KotH actually didn't approach it from a strict man-is-humiliated angle, though. There were several episodes that showed:
a. Dale and his wife's marriage worked better when it wasn't romantic
b. She didn't want to leave him, nor he her (both had opportunity to do so)
c. John Redcorn tried to help Joseph have a traditional Indian coming-of-age, but it was a disaster, and Dale ultimately proved to be helpful/better at fathering in his own weird way.
So in reality, it was more of a polyandrous marriage.
posted by emjaybee at 7:19 AM on August 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
a. Dale and his wife's marriage worked better when it wasn't romantic
b. She didn't want to leave him, nor he her (both had opportunity to do so)
c. John Redcorn tried to help Joseph have a traditional Indian coming-of-age, but it was a disaster, and Dale ultimately proved to be helpful/better at fathering in his own weird way.
So in reality, it was more of a polyandrous marriage.
posted by emjaybee at 7:19 AM on August 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
Honestly, I thought cuclolding was some mild Dan Savage style link, not... this.
cucLOLding is what we are doing in this post. (It's a Tocharian word that means "to express schadenfreude.")
posted by Panjandrum at 8:08 AM on August 14, 2015
cucLOLding is what we are doing in this post. (It's a Tocharian word that means "to express schadenfreude.")
posted by Panjandrum at 8:08 AM on August 14, 2015
So in reality, it was more of a polyandrous marriage.
Except Dale doesn't know it, which inherently prevents any legitimacy and/or uplifting value. It's that thing called consent that needs to work in both (or all) directions.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2015
Except Dale doesn't know it, which inherently prevents any legitimacy and/or uplifting value. It's that thing called consent that needs to work in both (or all) directions.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2015
Except Dale doesn't know it, which inherently prevents any legitimacy and/or uplifting value. It's that thing called consent that needs to work in both (or all) directions.
This is not entirely clear to me, Dale being Dale. You do kind of think he knows, deep down, and just would never admit it, because he likes things the way they are. The show certainly leaves that interpretation open, repeatedly. My point, to tie this derail back in, is that that particular show tended to take a really compassionate and nuanced approach to characters who appeared at first to be dumb redneck jokes, in this case, a cuckold joke. Dale especially could have come off as hateful/annoying, but he had a real pathos and you can tell the writers felt affection for him, and the rest of the characters too, including John Redcorn and Nancy.
One of the show's recurring themes is that it's better not to mess in other people's lives, no matter how weird they are, if what they are doing makes them happy, for some definition of "happy." It was surprisingly subversive for something centered around white people in a Texas suburb.
And Fox would probably not have allowed an open marriage setup as a plot point, in any case. I think hinting at it was the closest the writers could come.
posted by emjaybee at 9:15 AM on August 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is not entirely clear to me, Dale being Dale. You do kind of think he knows, deep down, and just would never admit it, because he likes things the way they are. The show certainly leaves that interpretation open, repeatedly. My point, to tie this derail back in, is that that particular show tended to take a really compassionate and nuanced approach to characters who appeared at first to be dumb redneck jokes, in this case, a cuckold joke. Dale especially could have come off as hateful/annoying, but he had a real pathos and you can tell the writers felt affection for him, and the rest of the characters too, including John Redcorn and Nancy.
One of the show's recurring themes is that it's better not to mess in other people's lives, no matter how weird they are, if what they are doing makes them happy, for some definition of "happy." It was surprisingly subversive for something centered around white people in a Texas suburb.
And Fox would probably not have allowed an open marriage setup as a plot point, in any case. I think hinting at it was the closest the writers could come.
posted by emjaybee at 9:15 AM on August 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just want to keep chanting "what the actual fuck" louder and louder. When Breitbart is publishing articles that start with the appeal to authority of "As someone who has had the dicks of multiple races in my ass" or however the fuck that guy phrases it, I just can't read any further without that mantra.
posted by corb at 9:21 AM on August 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 9:21 AM on August 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
IAGO
"Zounds, sir, you’re robbed! For shame, put on your gown.
Your heart is burst, you have lost half your soul.
Even now, now, very now, an old black ram
Is tupping your white ewe. Arise, arise,
Awake the snorting citizens with the bell
Or else the devil will make a grandsire of you.
Arise, I say!"
-Othello, act 1, scene 1
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:33 AM on August 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
"Zounds, sir, you’re robbed! For shame, put on your gown.
Your heart is burst, you have lost half your soul.
Even now, now, very now, an old black ram
Is tupping your white ewe. Arise, arise,
Awake the snorting citizens with the bell
Or else the devil will make a grandsire of you.
Arise, I say!"
-Othello, act 1, scene 1
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:33 AM on August 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think hinting at it was the closest the writers could come.
Ugh. I'm super uncomfortable with that. Poly only works if everything is out in the open, even if only between the partners involved. And you can say, "Yeah, but how many spouses put up with mistresses/other men?" but that's a different discussion. And I get how subversion in media works (or is supposed to work), but...ugh. Just ugh.
I haven't seen every episode of KotH or even close to it, but I have vague recollections of episodes that tried to legitimize Dale & Nancy's relationship and even then the subtext still undercut Dale. An example of healthy poly living that show ain't.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:34 AM on August 14, 2015
Ugh. I'm super uncomfortable with that. Poly only works if everything is out in the open, even if only between the partners involved. And you can say, "Yeah, but how many spouses put up with mistresses/other men?" but that's a different discussion. And I get how subversion in media works (or is supposed to work), but...ugh. Just ugh.
I haven't seen every episode of KotH or even close to it, but I have vague recollections of episodes that tried to legitimize Dale & Nancy's relationship and even then the subtext still undercut Dale. An example of healthy poly living that show ain't.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:34 AM on August 14, 2015
expecting the creator of beavis and butthead to portray a perfect poly relationship in cartoon form on fox in a show about a propane salesman seems like a lot to ask...and maybe a bit afield of the topic at hand.
posted by nadawi at 9:46 AM on August 14, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 9:46 AM on August 14, 2015 [11 favorites]
Ah, yes. Here it is. Chaucer's The Miller's Tale, lines 113-124.
This carpenter hadde newe a wyf,
Which that he lovede moore than his lyf;
Of eighteteene yeer she was of age.
Jalous he was, and heeld hire narwe in cage,
For she was wylde and yong, and he was old,
And demed hymself, been lik a cokewold.
He knew nat Catoun, for his wit was rude,
That bad man sholde wedde his simylitude.
Men sholde wedden after hire estaat,
For youth and elde is often at debaat.
But sith that he was fallen in the snare,
Her moste endure, as oother folk, his care.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:12 AM on August 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
This carpenter hadde newe a wyf,
Which that he lovede moore than his lyf;
Of eighteteene yeer she was of age.
Jalous he was, and heeld hire narwe in cage,
For she was wylde and yong, and he was old,
And demed hymself, been lik a cokewold.
He knew nat Catoun, for his wit was rude,
That bad man sholde wedde his simylitude.
Men sholde wedden after hire estaat,
For youth and elde is often at debaat.
But sith that he was fallen in the snare,
Her moste endure, as oother folk, his care.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:12 AM on August 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Metafilter: expecting the creator of beavis and butthead to portray a perfect poly relationship in cartoon form on fox in a show about a propane salesman seems like a lot to ask...and maybe a bit afield of the topic at hand.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:13 AM on August 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:13 AM on August 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
I honestly think there are no limits to how radical the conservative movement will become now. In 20 years, people will be pining for the return of the calm, reasoned politics of Ted Cruz.
I'm not sure if it will take that long. Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain, and Sarah Palin seem so quaint compared to this crop of candidates. Though if any of them were running this year, I suppose it would be a different story.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:27 AM on August 14, 2015
I'm not sure if it will take that long. Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain, and Sarah Palin seem so quaint compared to this crop of candidates. Though if any of them were running this year, I suppose it would be a different story.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:27 AM on August 14, 2015
Prediction: President Camacho, or his equivalent, will be realized within 50 years.
posted by theorique at 10:35 AM on August 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by theorique at 10:35 AM on August 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
The Tea Party already feels really quaint, though that's also because they seem to be a movement that's on the wane. Whatever trend rallies around this word and the sentiments it entails will doubtless be more reactionary, angry, and cause internet liberals throughout America to clutch their pearls. And that's the scary thing, really- the American right-wing seems to be getting pushed further and further to extremes. What can be done to redeem it?
posted by Apocryphon at 10:39 AM on August 14, 2015
posted by Apocryphon at 10:39 AM on August 14, 2015
the part of othello where iago addresses desdemona's dad
iago is addressing desdemona's dad there. he is not her husband
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:42 AM on August 14, 2015
iago is addressing desdemona's dad there. he is not her husband
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:42 AM on August 14, 2015
Their vision of the future is a lot closer to the original boot quote.
A human face falling on a human palm, forever?
posted by Apocryphon at 10:45 AM on August 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
A human face falling on a human palm, forever?
posted by Apocryphon at 10:45 AM on August 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
"How is white women fetishing black men as the quintessential other ("something that their white husbands could never be") racial catharsis rather than straight-up racism?"
Because it's done with the knowledge that this is happening, and often done with friends or a defined social set.
Again, this is just from knowing quasi-coworkers who were into this, but it's play-acting an extreme version of racist feelings that they have regularly, within a controlled/safe environment with people who know them. I mean, why isn't maledom/femsub just misogyny?
posted by klangklangston at 10:51 AM on August 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Because it's done with the knowledge that this is happening, and often done with friends or a defined social set.
Again, this is just from knowing quasi-coworkers who were into this, but it's play-acting an extreme version of racist feelings that they have regularly, within a controlled/safe environment with people who know them. I mean, why isn't maledom/femsub just misogyny?
posted by klangklangston at 10:51 AM on August 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Autoadmit? FUUUCCCKK those guys. Absolute scum.
I think the current troubles of the legal industry is already doing to that to them. Which, perhaps, is also fueling their anger, bitterness, and toxicity.
There's something to be said about these internet troll spawning pools. What used to be just a very fringe phenomenon that started with alt.tasteless (?) has now expanded into RL. Maybe it was Eliot Rodgers' insane crimes who brought the concept of PUA, anti-PUA, and MRA to the mainstream. For a long time, we've been seeing what was once restricted to obscure subcultures pour into the real world.
I think the internet is making visible a lot of the ugliness that, in the past, only people who were marginalized saw, because it was aimed at them in person.
I think it's also allowing people on the fringe to create communities out of obscure viewpoints. I don't think this is restricted only to the right, to the reactionary. Would modern youth progressivism be the same without Tumblr or Twitter, not only to allow communities to form, but to spin-off exceedingly bizarre subsections about otherkin, headmates, and anime-inspired imaginary constructs? Remember that A Confederacy of Dunces not only invented Ignatius J. Reilly, but also Myrna Minkoff, his perfect female leftist counterpart. If he is the proto-NRx, then she is the proto-SJW.
I wonder if trolling has become gentrified? Or at least politicized, ideologized, and radicalized. To bring it back around to Autoadmit, I think the frustrations of law students with huge amounts of debt but few job prospects, to geeky virgins with sexual self-entitlement issues, to white male American conservatives slowly losing their ancient privilege, are all on the same continuum, and these groups are using a modern trolling style- because that's how the internet has changed us.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:07 AM on August 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the current troubles of the legal industry is already doing to that to them. Which, perhaps, is also fueling their anger, bitterness, and toxicity.
There's something to be said about these internet troll spawning pools. What used to be just a very fringe phenomenon that started with alt.tasteless (?) has now expanded into RL. Maybe it was Eliot Rodgers' insane crimes who brought the concept of PUA, anti-PUA, and MRA to the mainstream. For a long time, we've been seeing what was once restricted to obscure subcultures pour into the real world.
I think the internet is making visible a lot of the ugliness that, in the past, only people who were marginalized saw, because it was aimed at them in person.
I think it's also allowing people on the fringe to create communities out of obscure viewpoints. I don't think this is restricted only to the right, to the reactionary. Would modern youth progressivism be the same without Tumblr or Twitter, not only to allow communities to form, but to spin-off exceedingly bizarre subsections about otherkin, headmates, and anime-inspired imaginary constructs? Remember that A Confederacy of Dunces not only invented Ignatius J. Reilly, but also Myrna Minkoff, his perfect female leftist counterpart. If he is the proto-NRx, then she is the proto-SJW.
I wonder if trolling has become gentrified? Or at least politicized, ideologized, and radicalized. To bring it back around to Autoadmit, I think the frustrations of law students with huge amounts of debt but few job prospects, to geeky virgins with sexual self-entitlement issues, to white male American conservatives slowly losing their ancient privilege, are all on the same continuum, and these groups are using a modern trolling style- because that's how the internet has changed us.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:07 AM on August 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the frustrations of law students with huge amounts of debt but few job prospects, to geeky virgins, to white male American conservatives losing out their ancient privilege, are all using this modern trolling style because that's how the internet has changed us.
I think it gets into the power issues that are going on, too. Those groups (law students, "nerds", white men) all kinda built their lives around this promise of eventual power. Law Students would get power when they got a job, Nerds would run the world one day if they did well in school, White Men would get the benefit of the patriarchy if they put in their dues, etc. These folks bought into the promise that society was built in such a way that they could have whatever they wanted once they achieved some goal. But now they've achieved that goal, they find they don't have the subservient wife and family, the large bank account and inherited wealth, or the prime position in the pecking order*. And there's nothing they can do about it, because those things are disappearing. They can't turn back the clock and keep society from changing, they can't turn back the clock and make different choices 10 years ago. So they troll. It's an empty expression of hate and fear and rage, but that's the only avenue left for a lot of people who bought into a lot of promises made by a shitty society.
---
*to the extent that they thought they would.
posted by DGStieber at 11:23 AM on August 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
I think it gets into the power issues that are going on, too. Those groups (law students, "nerds", white men) all kinda built their lives around this promise of eventual power. Law Students would get power when they got a job, Nerds would run the world one day if they did well in school, White Men would get the benefit of the patriarchy if they put in their dues, etc. These folks bought into the promise that society was built in such a way that they could have whatever they wanted once they achieved some goal. But now they've achieved that goal, they find they don't have the subservient wife and family, the large bank account and inherited wealth, or the prime position in the pecking order*. And there's nothing they can do about it, because those things are disappearing. They can't turn back the clock and keep society from changing, they can't turn back the clock and make different choices 10 years ago. So they troll. It's an empty expression of hate and fear and rage, but that's the only avenue left for a lot of people who bought into a lot of promises made by a shitty society.
---
*to the extent that they thought they would.
posted by DGStieber at 11:23 AM on August 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
i'm beginning to wonder if a case could be made that the internet, instead of making a new frontier of freedom and a brave new world possible, is actively ruining society - more and more, it seems to be bringing out the worst in people
Well, yes and no.
A lot of the progressive utopianism of the early internet era was largely because it was a place for educated white dudes who were considered weirdos to hang out and play, so they could easily form a consensus because they were largely a monolithic group. With internet access widespread, that consensus is no longer easy to form. Now the internet is just a utility like the lights or running water or sewer (with all that implies re: the poor not able to afford it or the rural poor not having access to it).
Everyone now has the internet. But that means EVERYONE now has the internet.
And just as early communities formed for outcast weirdos of a nerdy bent--give me your Trekkies, your Comic Book Guys, your huddles masses yearning to be free of wedgies--now outcast weirdos of another stripe can find their home.
As with swingers and furries and other "deviant"/outsider communities, once upon a time you may have been the only one in your town. Or maybe there was a subculture in your town, but that was the limit of your exposure to it. And even then, it might've been hard to find. I remember being very into the 90s rave scene, but it was still fairly underground and if you weren't in the metaphorical web of people who knew each other through which information flowed, tough shit, you weren't going raving.
With EVERYONE now having access to the internet, you're no longer limited to what you can find locally. You're not limited to being the racist kook on the block or joining the local Klan, just as if you used to be bulimic you maybe had some supporters at school, but now have the whole pro-bulimia "movement" to take you in and support you.
Likewise, what we'll call the 4chan right for shorthand purposes. Now you have very visible gathering places like 4chan and Reddit and it's pretty easy to wind up going down that rabbit hole. It can start as the "ironic" racist humor that's particularly common on Reddit and from there you go from "Ha ha, maybe that race IS uncivilized, how amusing", to sliding down by stages into nonironic racist.
And if you are a disaffected young man, who is visibly fighting for you, you know? You see active conversations about LGTBQ rights and movement in that direction. The establishment right is fighting for culture war Jesus freaks and rich guys. So you're wooed in by the edgy, racist humor, but then you simmer in a soup of not-all-that-ironic racism and it seeps in and soon you're a total nonironic at all racist.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:59 PM on August 14, 2015 [12 favorites]
Well, yes and no.
A lot of the progressive utopianism of the early internet era was largely because it was a place for educated white dudes who were considered weirdos to hang out and play, so they could easily form a consensus because they were largely a monolithic group. With internet access widespread, that consensus is no longer easy to form. Now the internet is just a utility like the lights or running water or sewer (with all that implies re: the poor not able to afford it or the rural poor not having access to it).
Everyone now has the internet. But that means EVERYONE now has the internet.
And just as early communities formed for outcast weirdos of a nerdy bent--give me your Trekkies, your Comic Book Guys, your huddles masses yearning to be free of wedgies--now outcast weirdos of another stripe can find their home.
As with swingers and furries and other "deviant"/outsider communities, once upon a time you may have been the only one in your town. Or maybe there was a subculture in your town, but that was the limit of your exposure to it. And even then, it might've been hard to find. I remember being very into the 90s rave scene, but it was still fairly underground and if you weren't in the metaphorical web of people who knew each other through which information flowed, tough shit, you weren't going raving.
With EVERYONE now having access to the internet, you're no longer limited to what you can find locally. You're not limited to being the racist kook on the block or joining the local Klan, just as if you used to be bulimic you maybe had some supporters at school, but now have the whole pro-bulimia "movement" to take you in and support you.
Likewise, what we'll call the 4chan right for shorthand purposes. Now you have very visible gathering places like 4chan and Reddit and it's pretty easy to wind up going down that rabbit hole. It can start as the "ironic" racist humor that's particularly common on Reddit and from there you go from "Ha ha, maybe that race IS uncivilized, how amusing", to sliding down by stages into nonironic racist.
And if you are a disaffected young man, who is visibly fighting for you, you know? You see active conversations about LGTBQ rights and movement in that direction. The establishment right is fighting for culture war Jesus freaks and rich guys. So you're wooed in by the edgy, racist humor, but then you simmer in a soup of not-all-that-ironic racism and it seeps in and soon you're a total nonironic at all racist.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:59 PM on August 14, 2015 [12 favorites]
Trolls also often mock liberal sacred cows. Why? I think it's because nowadays there really is a perception that leftish political correctness is the dominant paradigm of polite society, and trolls inherently run counter to it. The only rightish earnestness that trolls mock would be conventional, traditional religion.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:12 PM on August 14, 2015
posted by Apocryphon at 10:12 PM on August 14, 2015
Mocking Bernie is not only fun, it's character building.
posted by clavdivs at 6:14 AM on August 15, 2015
posted by clavdivs at 6:14 AM on August 15, 2015
iago is addressing desdemona's dad there. he is not her husband
True.
But the message is still "Black dude is fucking your white woman, and you just sit there and let it happen; are you not man enough to stop this?"
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:06 AM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
True.
But the message is still "Black dude is fucking your white woman, and you just sit there and let it happen; are you not man enough to stop this?"
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:06 AM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, the whole dad/husband thing is pretty blurred anyway over in purity ball land.
posted by Artw at 9:12 AM on August 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:12 AM on August 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Look, the important thing is to consider the feelings of the woman's rightful owner, whoever he may be.
posted by RobotHero at 9:23 AM on August 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 9:23 AM on August 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
But the message is still "Black dude is fucking your white woman, and you just sit there and let it happen; are you not man enough to stop this?"
Fair point. I hadn't realized a previous Othello derail had been deleted, and so your comment reads differently without that light shining on it. Sorry!
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:43 AM on August 15, 2015
Fair point. I hadn't realized a previous Othello derail had been deleted, and so your comment reads differently without that light shining on it. Sorry!
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:43 AM on August 15, 2015
So I guess the point is to try to make a claim about who America's rightful owners are. And if you welcome the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of the teeming shores, they want to frame that as a weakness, a failure to assert your rightful control over this country. And that control must be in accord with how they would want to control it. To permit something they would not can only be weakness, not compassion, not a principle of freedom.
posted by RobotHero at 10:47 AM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotHero at 10:47 AM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
From Canadian Cartoonist J.J. McCullough of Filibuster Cartoons:
What are young conservatives? - he coins the term douchebag conservatism back in 2009.
What “cuckservative” theory gets wrong - he analyzes the current state of the trend and explains the flaws in their reasoning
posted by Apocryphon at 1:06 PM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
What are young conservatives? - he coins the term douchebag conservatism back in 2009.
What “cuckservative” theory gets wrong - he analyzes the current state of the trend and explains the flaws in their reasoning
posted by Apocryphon at 1:06 PM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Read the comments on that last thread for a good sample of alt-right racist awfulness.
posted by brundlefly at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2015
posted by brundlefly at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2015
Is there a choice? Could I jump into a fire instead?
posted by Artw at 1:58 PM on August 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:58 PM on August 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Wait... you'd rather not feel more disgusted with humanity?
posted by brundlefly at 2:06 PM on August 15, 2015
posted by brundlefly at 2:06 PM on August 15, 2015
J.J. McCullough is the 'token conservative' at the formerly-Medium-supported The Nib, and unlike almost all other conservative political cartoonists I've seen (and way too many 'liberals' I am supposed to agree with), does not give me facial cramps rolling my eyes. He makes me think much more often than cringe, which puts him well above any of the conservative op-ed writers at the NewYorkTimes ("The Paper of Recorded WMDs").
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:02 PM on August 15, 2015
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:02 PM on August 15, 2015
And if you are a disaffected young man, who is visibly fighting for you, you know? You see active conversations about LGTBQ rights and movement in that direction. The establishment right is fighting for culture war Jesus freaks and rich guys. So you're wooed in by the edgy, racist humor, but then you simmer in a soup of not-all-that-ironic racism and it seeps in and soon you're a total nonironic at all racist.
This definitely happens. I have even read some comments in the past where people have consciously acknowledged having gone down this path. The gist of the argument seems to emerge from a sense of futility: "because I am a white person / man, they are going to call me racist / sexist, regardless of whether I make an effort to be non-racist or anti-racist."
A specific factor that seems to be involved is the phenomenon of radical members of feminist or anti-racist movements "calling out" white or male members for being bad allies, and those allies performing honest self-criticism, analysis, and apology (blogs, twitter, and tumblr, have various examples). To an angry young man, this process looks suspiciously like submission.
Some politically-aware, young white men, especially those with a conservative bent, especially fired-up ones with raging testosterone, look at their peers in online anti-sexist and/or anti-racist activity this and say, why would I want to be a part of that? And so they move in the opposite direction.
posted by theorique at 6:54 AM on August 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
This definitely happens. I have even read some comments in the past where people have consciously acknowledged having gone down this path. The gist of the argument seems to emerge from a sense of futility: "because I am a white person / man, they are going to call me racist / sexist, regardless of whether I make an effort to be non-racist or anti-racist."
A specific factor that seems to be involved is the phenomenon of radical members of feminist or anti-racist movements "calling out" white or male members for being bad allies, and those allies performing honest self-criticism, analysis, and apology (blogs, twitter, and tumblr, have various examples). To an angry young man, this process looks suspiciously like submission.
Some politically-aware, young white men, especially those with a conservative bent, especially fired-up ones with raging testosterone, look at their peers in online anti-sexist and/or anti-racist activity this and say, why would I want to be a part of that? And so they move in the opposite direction.
posted by theorique at 6:54 AM on August 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
A new wrinkle...
#NRORevolt, explained
The #NRORevolt is a backlash to the National Review's historic role as the self-appointed monitor of what is and is not an acceptably mainstream view in the American conservative movement, including its sporadic "purges" of excessively anti-Semitic or racist elements. But it relies in part on a broader critique that the mainstream right is filled with "cuckservatives" who refuse to stand up for white interests and are laying the groundwork for LGBTQ equality, and encompasses an ugly critique of Jewish "kikeservatives" and other anti-Semitic themes.
posted by andoatnp at 11:12 AM on September 8, 2015
#NRORevolt, explained
The #NRORevolt is a backlash to the National Review's historic role as the self-appointed monitor of what is and is not an acceptably mainstream view in the American conservative movement, including its sporadic "purges" of excessively anti-Semitic or racist elements. But it relies in part on a broader critique that the mainstream right is filled with "cuckservatives" who refuse to stand up for white interests and are laying the groundwork for LGBTQ equality, and encompasses an ugly critique of Jewish "kikeservatives" and other anti-Semitic themes.
posted by andoatnp at 11:12 AM on September 8, 2015
#NRORevolt, explained
For people who idolize Ronald Reagan and the Bible, they sure do forget his Eleventh Commandment a lot.
posted by Etrigan at 11:18 AM on September 8, 2015
For people who idolize Ronald Reagan and the Bible, they sure do forget his Eleventh Commandment a lot.
posted by Etrigan at 11:18 AM on September 8, 2015
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posted by filthy light thief at 3:05 PM on August 13, 2015