Afrika Bambaataa accused of decades of sex abuse
October 11, 2016 9:12 AM Subscribe
Hip-hop legend Afrika Bambaataa allegedly molested young men for decades. Why are the accusations only coming out now? (SLVice; TW: descriptions of sexual abuse)
David Futrelle at We Hunted The Mammoth provided a roundup of coverage back in May.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:18 AM on October 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:18 AM on October 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
He was such an icon in the community, both in hip-hop and in NYC. He was seen as such a positive force. And a musical legend. But after reading all of this... This is some Joe Paterno-scale abuse, from the sound of it.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:19 AM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:19 AM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
Speak about destruction.
posted by Glomar response at 9:26 AM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Glomar response at 9:26 AM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Vice piece is much more in-depth, Going to Maine, with interviews with three of the accusers, historical context, etc. It is a little weird, as Futrelle pointed out, that this story hadn't made it beyond black publications and local news. But this Vice piece seems to be breaking it open to a bigger audience.
It's just horrible.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:27 AM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's just horrible.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:27 AM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'd heard about the initial report, and was sad. Hearing more about the pattern and the coverup with Zulu Nation makes me sadder. And angry. I got to see Afrika about a decade+ ago and it was a life dream. But this takes off some of the glimmer.
I'm glad the stories are coming out. I'm glad this is getting recognition. Not as big as Paterno, but then. Most of the old school artists (even Bambaataa) aren't that big in popular culture. But at least it's being heard finally.
posted by symbioid at 9:36 AM on October 11, 2016
I'm glad the stories are coming out. I'm glad this is getting recognition. Not as big as Paterno, but then. Most of the old school artists (even Bambaataa) aren't that big in popular culture. But at least it's being heard finally.
posted by symbioid at 9:36 AM on October 11, 2016
"Meanwhile, Bambaataa is at-large, his whereabouts unknown."
posted by doctornemo at 9:37 AM on October 11, 2016
posted by doctornemo at 9:37 AM on October 11, 2016
If the allegations are true, fuck this guy & his predatory ilk and props to the people who have broken the silence. Man, so many at-risk kids looked up to him and trusted him...this world is not fit for children.
posted by Bob Regular at 9:40 AM on October 11, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Bob Regular at 9:40 AM on October 11, 2016 [8 favorites]
I loved the Soul Sonic Force so much. This really fucking sucks. But I never really want to hear Looking For the Perfect Beat again.
posted by Alex Goldman at 9:43 AM on October 11, 2016
posted by Alex Goldman at 9:43 AM on October 11, 2016
KRS-One continues to play the Whoopi Goldberg apologist to Bambaataa's Cosby. "I am in no way defending Afrika Bambaataa, I am defending real truth and real justice for all!”
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:43 AM on October 11, 2016
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:43 AM on October 11, 2016
This just goes to show that sexual abusers never (or almost never) just target one person, one time. It always seems to be a pattern of serial abuse. This is one reason why so many women, and men, report having been abused in some way. One person can affect hundreds, it seems, of young lives. I wish there was some way of identifying and stopping potential abusers before they can even start.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:48 AM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:48 AM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Still, unlike the scandals surrounding black icons like Bill Cosby and Michael Jackson, the media has largely ignored the Bambaataa case. Part of that is probably due to Bambaataa's fading celebrity, but it also could stem from another unfortunately common fact of newsroom decisions: The alleged victims are from poor, crime-ridden neighborhoods, where despair and tragedy are often taken as a fact of life. And some say there are racial elements at play as well."
Not to mention the "common fact" that "newsroom decisions" often involve running away from allegations of same-sex molestation like the bubonic plague (high-profile examples like Michael Jackson and Jerry Sandusky notwithstanding).
posted by blucevalo at 9:50 AM on October 11, 2016 [10 favorites]
Not to mention the "common fact" that "newsroom decisions" often involve running away from allegations of same-sex molestation like the bubonic plague (high-profile examples like Michael Jackson and Jerry Sandusky notwithstanding).
posted by blucevalo at 9:50 AM on October 11, 2016 [10 favorites]
Bambaataa's statement in Rolling Stone.
This sucks for everyone involved if the allegations are true. And I do mean if. He's entitled to due process.
posted by prepmonkey at 9:52 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
This sucks for everyone involved if the allegations are true. And I do mean if. He's entitled to due process.
posted by prepmonkey at 9:52 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
He's entitled to due process.
In a court of law, he is. But elsewhere it is more than fair to say that there appears to be a long list of victims and their claims are not to be dismissed lightly.
posted by tclark at 10:09 AM on October 11, 2016 [32 favorites]
In a court of law, he is. But elsewhere it is more than fair to say that there appears to be a long list of victims and their claims are not to be dismissed lightly.
posted by tclark at 10:09 AM on October 11, 2016 [32 favorites]
He's entitled to due process.
One of the advantages, if that's the right word, of this sort of abuse is that allegations often don't surface for years or decades, in part because of cultures of secrecy around this sort of thing, in part because clever predators will target children whose families feel they cannot prosecute for a variety of reasons. As happened with the church scandal, it is often the case that the allegations surface after the statute of limitations has expired.
I hope Bambaataa does get his day in court, because I hope this is prosecutable.
posted by maxsparber at 10:12 AM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
One of the advantages, if that's the right word, of this sort of abuse is that allegations often don't surface for years or decades, in part because of cultures of secrecy around this sort of thing, in part because clever predators will target children whose families feel they cannot prosecute for a variety of reasons. As happened with the church scandal, it is often the case that the allegations surface after the statute of limitations has expired.
I hope Bambaataa does get his day in court, because I hope this is prosecutable.
posted by maxsparber at 10:12 AM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was actually surprised to hear that Zulu Nation finally pushed Bambaataa out and apologized to the victims, so many organizations just double down and smear the victims. Good on them for doing the right thing, finally.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:14 AM on October 11, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 10:14 AM on October 11, 2016 [10 favorites]
Still, unlike the scandals surrounding black icons like Bill Cosby and Michael Jackson, the media has largely ignored the Bambaataa case.
The Bill Cosby scandal was ignored for way too long too, wasn't it? Like everything was out there, but it wasn't "a story" until it was.
posted by ODiV at 10:15 AM on October 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
The Bill Cosby scandal was ignored for way too long too, wasn't it? Like everything was out there, but it wasn't "a story" until it was.
posted by ODiV at 10:15 AM on October 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
I look forward to the day celebrity is a dirty word.
posted by gusottertrout at 10:35 AM on October 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 10:35 AM on October 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
Still, unlike the scandals surrounding black icons like Bill Cosby and Michael Jackson, the media has largely ignored the Bambaataa case.
The media ignores sex abuse, pretty much. It's unsavory and hits at power structures. If it's made the news, it's a powerful person who we culturally "care" about. It's also, to be fair, difficult to report these things without hauling victims into the glare of public consciousness. There is so much shame around sex and child victims often cannot process this stuff until much later in life. To make them "famous" for having been victimized is not fair and should not be part of the path to justice.
This is true, though:
The alleged victims are from poor, crime-ridden neighborhoods, where despair and tragedy are often taken as a fact of life. And some say there are racial elements at play as well.
You can also add in that teenage boys are allowed an agency in their sexual lives in a way that can allow abuse to carry on under the false notion that boys/men are just always thinking about sex and as there are few consequences for their behavior (pregnancy, being labeled a "slut" or damaged goods, etc.) that we can and should turn a blind eye to their choices.
The system of patriarchal power also keeps people in line on who is in power and who is required to respect that power. Adult males in power are to be given more leeway for their actions and not held to a standard that would bear long-term consequences. To tear at the leadership is to risk the community.
posted by amanda at 10:41 AM on October 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
The media ignores sex abuse, pretty much. It's unsavory and hits at power structures. If it's made the news, it's a powerful person who we culturally "care" about. It's also, to be fair, difficult to report these things without hauling victims into the glare of public consciousness. There is so much shame around sex and child victims often cannot process this stuff until much later in life. To make them "famous" for having been victimized is not fair and should not be part of the path to justice.
This is true, though:
The alleged victims are from poor, crime-ridden neighborhoods, where despair and tragedy are often taken as a fact of life. And some say there are racial elements at play as well.
You can also add in that teenage boys are allowed an agency in their sexual lives in a way that can allow abuse to carry on under the false notion that boys/men are just always thinking about sex and as there are few consequences for their behavior (pregnancy, being labeled a "slut" or damaged goods, etc.) that we can and should turn a blind eye to their choices.
The system of patriarchal power also keeps people in line on who is in power and who is required to respect that power. Adult males in power are to be given more leeway for their actions and not held to a standard that would bear long-term consequences. To tear at the leadership is to risk the community.
posted by amanda at 10:41 AM on October 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
I've been following Jay Smooth on Facebook so I've been aware of this for a while now (if I recall, Smooth was very pleased that Zulu Nation finally booted AB and apologized to his victims). Smooth is worth following if you're interested in inside baseball hip hop information.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:42 AM on October 11, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:42 AM on October 11, 2016 [8 favorites]
I don't think this is just coming out now, there's been rumors for a long time. At least I've heard rumors before many times.
posted by fshgrl at 11:12 AM on October 11, 2016
posted by fshgrl at 11:12 AM on October 11, 2016
This is what power, adulation and influence does to people.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:27 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:27 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is what power, adulation and influence does to people.
That's a bold claim.
posted by delight at 11:30 AM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
That's a bold claim.
posted by delight at 11:30 AM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
~This is what power, adulation and influence does to people.
~That's a bold claim.
Yeahhhh...Gotta agree, that's a bit of a stretch.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:48 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
~That's a bold claim.
Yeahhhh...Gotta agree, that's a bit of a stretch.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:48 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, maybe we could not get on the "all celebrities are psychopaths because they can get away with it" train. AFAIK, Afrika Bambaataa has as much agency over his personal behavior as Donald Trump, Bill Cosby, Jimmy Savile, and the rest of that long and very depressing list.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:08 PM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:08 PM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is what power, adulation and influence does to people.
That's a bold claim.
There is a long list of famous, respected rock, rap, and R&B stars who (some claims unsourced, some from the victims, a few actually convicted) had sex with underage girls: David Bowie (14), Jimmy Page (14), Sam Cooke (12), Marvin Gaye (17), Ted Nugent (17), Bill Wyman (14), Prince (17), Don Henley (16), R Kelly (multiple girls, 14 - 17), and Jerry Lee Lewis (13).
posted by zippy at 1:30 PM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's a bold claim.
There is a long list of famous, respected rock, rap, and R&B stars who (some claims unsourced, some from the victims, a few actually convicted) had sex with underage girls: David Bowie (14), Jimmy Page (14), Sam Cooke (12), Marvin Gaye (17), Ted Nugent (17), Bill Wyman (14), Prince (17), Don Henley (16), R Kelly (multiple girls, 14 - 17), and Jerry Lee Lewis (13).
posted by zippy at 1:30 PM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not arguing which way the causative arrow points, just saying it appears to be strongly correlated with power, adulation, and influence
posted by zippy at 1:31 PM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zippy at 1:31 PM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
and being male
posted by zippy at 2:26 PM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by zippy at 2:26 PM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
It appears to be strongly correlated with power, adulation, and influence
That is a tiny sample of celebrities and a tiny sample of abusers. It is not a correlation of any sort, let alone a strong one. Let's not start any witch hunts.
posted by merlynkline at 2:55 PM on October 11, 2016 [4 favorites]
That is a tiny sample of celebrities and a tiny sample of abusers. It is not a correlation of any sort, let alone a strong one. Let's not start any witch hunts.
posted by merlynkline at 2:55 PM on October 11, 2016 [4 favorites]
(reluctantly puts down pitchfork; extinguishes torch.)
posted by Guy Smiley at 3:13 PM on October 11, 2016
posted by Guy Smiley at 3:13 PM on October 11, 2016
Yes, these musicians, surrounded constantly by management, security, technical staff, event staff, peers, and also blanketed by media attention, must somehow be extraordinarily furtive counterexamples of something happening across an industry and society.
And somehow too, power must not bring some measure of protection from consequences, and the quote "power tends to corrupt" must not have any intersection with this issue.
posted by zippy at 3:48 PM on October 11, 2016 [4 favorites]
And somehow too, power must not bring some measure of protection from consequences, and the quote "power tends to corrupt" must not have any intersection with this issue.
posted by zippy at 3:48 PM on October 11, 2016 [4 favorites]
The media ignores sex abuse, pretty much. It's unsavory and hits at power structures.
It doesn't seem to me that it's the case that the media ignores sex abuse, and the inital explanation provided for why that might be so strikes me as 180 degrees off target.
I see media reports of sex abuse routinely, and I certainly don't think it's the case generally that the media avoids reporting on things that are unsavory. My impression is that the media seeks out unsavory stories, as they have proven effective in attracting audiences.
posted by layceepee at 4:52 PM on October 11, 2016
It doesn't seem to me that it's the case that the media ignores sex abuse, and the inital explanation provided for why that might be so strikes me as 180 degrees off target.
I see media reports of sex abuse routinely, and I certainly don't think it's the case generally that the media avoids reporting on things that are unsavory. My impression is that the media seeks out unsavory stories, as they have proven effective in attracting audiences.
posted by layceepee at 4:52 PM on October 11, 2016
My impression is that the media seeks out unsavory stories, as they have proven effective in attracting audiences.
I mean, sure, if it bleeds, it leads, right? However, most reporters...journalists...are not actually monsters. They are regular people who try to do a good job, go home and drink a beer and relax after a hard day of work. Most don't really want to pry out a story from a reluctant, raped, teenager. Most actually don't want to victimize the victims in the course of putting a story together. The court of public opinion is not, in fact, always the best court to take one's grievances. And you really actually do need to be careful with public figures. There are many hangers-on who do, in fact, want to take famous people down. There is a world of shit-stirrers out there and the media doesn't actually like to be a pawn in other people's power struggles.
Once there is a there there, yeah, the media wants to report a story that people want to hear...that people need to hear. Some outlets are obviously more willing to mine the bottom of the barrel for readership but I don't think anyone relishes the pedophile beat.
posted by amanda at 7:40 PM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean, sure, if it bleeds, it leads, right? However, most reporters...journalists...are not actually monsters. They are regular people who try to do a good job, go home and drink a beer and relax after a hard day of work. Most don't really want to pry out a story from a reluctant, raped, teenager. Most actually don't want to victimize the victims in the course of putting a story together. The court of public opinion is not, in fact, always the best court to take one's grievances. And you really actually do need to be careful with public figures. There are many hangers-on who do, in fact, want to take famous people down. There is a world of shit-stirrers out there and the media doesn't actually like to be a pawn in other people's power struggles.
Once there is a there there, yeah, the media wants to report a story that people want to hear...that people need to hear. Some outlets are obviously more willing to mine the bottom of the barrel for readership but I don't think anyone relishes the pedophile beat.
posted by amanda at 7:40 PM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
these musicians [...] must somehow be extraordinarily furtive counterexamples of something happening across an industry and society
Assuming a degree of sarcasm here, this is exactly my point - they are, sadly, not counter-examples but simply examples. If you ask anyone who works with abused children what percentage of abusers they think are celebrities, the answer will more likely be much closer to the percentage of people as a whole who are celebrities.
While it would be nice to have a clear indicator of who is likely to commit these crimes, so that we could perhaps find out why and take appropriate action, there is no such indicator known and "celebrity" is not it. Focussing on that unfortunately diverts attention from the majority of abusers and their victims.
As suggested elsewhere in this the thread, the apparent correlation with celebrity is likely to be mostly publication bias. While celebrities may have access to more potential victims than the average offender, and more immediate power over those victims, they are also more closely observed, requiring a difficult degree of tacit collusion from those observers or, indeed, furtiveness on the part of the offenders.
posted by merlynkline at 12:17 AM on October 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Assuming a degree of sarcasm here, this is exactly my point - they are, sadly, not counter-examples but simply examples. If you ask anyone who works with abused children what percentage of abusers they think are celebrities, the answer will more likely be much closer to the percentage of people as a whole who are celebrities.
While it would be nice to have a clear indicator of who is likely to commit these crimes, so that we could perhaps find out why and take appropriate action, there is no such indicator known and "celebrity" is not it. Focussing on that unfortunately diverts attention from the majority of abusers and their victims.
As suggested elsewhere in this the thread, the apparent correlation with celebrity is likely to be mostly publication bias. While celebrities may have access to more potential victims than the average offender, and more immediate power over those victims, they are also more closely observed, requiring a difficult degree of tacit collusion from those observers or, indeed, furtiveness on the part of the offenders.
posted by merlynkline at 12:17 AM on October 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
From my perspective, the problem with celebrities in this sort of thing isn't that they are necessarily more likely to offend, though in small measure that might potentially be true, but that the scope of the offense can be much greater and even more that the way people respond to accusations about celebrities tends to be twisted by their amount of fandom regarding the individual. It's all kinda ugly as far as I'm concerned.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:50 AM on October 12, 2016
posted by gusottertrout at 6:50 AM on October 12, 2016
I'd be fine extending that to encompass positions of respect in general, like priests and coaches and so on, as it's all pretty similar.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:55 AM on October 12, 2016
posted by gusottertrout at 6:55 AM on October 12, 2016
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