Make America Grodd Again
April 4, 2018 2:42 PM Subscribe
Q: Can someone explain what’s going on with the DC superhero shows on the CWA: This week's episode of DC's Legends of Tomorrow, "Guest Starring John Noble" [sic], as summarized by mordax (SPOILERS!): "So the team saved a young Barack Obama1 from a telepathic gorilla from the future,
"then time-traveled to the set of Lord of the Rings to get the help of the real life actor who voices this season's Big Bad on the show so a team member could shrink down into the ear of a possessed girl and pretend to be a demon giving her orders to lead her into a trap hinging on spell advice from a wizard2 who guest starred a couple times. Also, a woman confronted her boss because he concealed the fact that she's a clone and he's been replacing her every time she dies on the job. Also, there's a whole Enemy Mine situation with the team captain's hated archnemesis, but I'm only getting to it at the end of this breathless recap because there was just that much crazy this week, and the plan fell apart when the archnemesis released the shrunken super gorilla from the glass jar he'd been incarcerated in earlier. Oh, and the episode opened with the guy who played Superman in Superman Returns singing a mnemonic for the ship emergency code that covered this week's broad category of disaster because another team member accidentally called an alert with the ship code for 'pancake breakfast.'''Q: That is...a lot. Can I please just watch superheroes punch Nazis at the Flash's wedding?
1Young Barack also provides excellent leadership advice
2John Constantine, future series regular and notably open bisexual superhero dude
Yes, you can!
Yes, you can! yt
Pretty much how I envisioned the inside of the church every single day through morning mass in Catholic school. Oh, the hordes that went down bleeding while I half-listened to Father Gary.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:50 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Pretty much how I envisioned the inside of the church every single day through morning mass in Catholic school. Oh, the hordes that went down bleeding while I half-listened to Father Gary.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:50 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
> "Can I please just watch superheroes punch Nazis at the Flash's wedding? Yes, you can!"
I have not the faintest idea what was going on in any of that and yet am still obscurely delighted.
posted by kyrademon at 2:59 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
I have not the faintest idea what was going on in any of that and yet am still obscurely delighted.
posted by kyrademon at 2:59 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Q: That is...a lot. Can I please just watch superheroes punch Nazis at the Flash's wedding?
that is kinda over the top, but I'm happy there's so much work for TV stuntpeople these days.
posted by GuyZero at 3:04 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
that is kinda over the top, but I'm happy there's so much work for TV stuntpeople these days.
posted by GuyZero at 3:04 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm reasonably familiar with the DC universe (at least as far as the comics up to about 1990 go) but I've never watched this show. Could I trouble someone for a full roll call of the heroes and villains involved in that wedding fight? Thank you.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:05 PM on April 4, 2018
posted by Paul Slade at 3:05 PM on April 4, 2018
For anybody who doesn't watch this show or gave up on it during its first season Hawkpeople-based doldrums (I'm a barista, not a reincarnated Egyptian priestess), I say give it a try.
Look, I'm an old-school comic book (especially DC) nerd, and the majority of these characters aren't the ones you'd find in the comics (the Atom was never a cut-rate Iron Man, White Canary didn't exist, etc.) and the situations the Legends team finds itself in are absolutely positively ridiculous, but (and it's a big but) the show somehow really works. It's stupid and it's dumb and it's so over-the-top that you say to yourself, "Did I really watch Vikings worship a flying Teddy Ruxpin knock-off?" (Answer: yes, you did), but none of that matters. What matters is that the cast has great chemistry, and that the show is a non-stop roller coaster ride of fun. It knows it's a completely crazy premise, and it just embraces that status (usually with terrible, terrible wigs).
posted by sardonyx at 3:06 PM on April 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
Look, I'm an old-school comic book (especially DC) nerd, and the majority of these characters aren't the ones you'd find in the comics (the Atom was never a cut-rate Iron Man, White Canary didn't exist, etc.) and the situations the Legends team finds itself in are absolutely positively ridiculous, but (and it's a big but) the show somehow really works. It's stupid and it's dumb and it's so over-the-top that you say to yourself, "Did I really watch Vikings worship a flying Teddy Ruxpin knock-off?" (Answer: yes, you did), but none of that matters. What matters is that the cast has great chemistry, and that the show is a non-stop roller coaster ride of fun. It knows it's a completely crazy premise, and it just embraces that status (usually with terrible, terrible wigs).
posted by sardonyx at 3:06 PM on April 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
> "Could I trouble someone for a full roll call of the heroes and villains involved in that wedding fight? Thank you."
Absolutely not, because I am clueless, but I mean, my guess would be ... an alternate universe evil Green Arrow and Supergirl? Who are Nazis? And decided to mess up the Flash's wedding because ... um, evilness? But because it's the Flash, the wedding guests included the actual Green Arrow and Supergirl but also ... um ... flamy person and woman possessed by ice demon and teleporter guy and guy with a flamethrower because why not and ... secret ... agent ... women? Who are friends or maybe girlfriends? Which made attacking the wedding a really stupid idea, because it's an entire building filled with superheroes? And wait, were there two evil Green Arrows? 'Cause, like there was one up in the balcony and one down below?
posted by kyrademon at 3:07 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Absolutely not, because I am clueless, but I mean, my guess would be ... an alternate universe evil Green Arrow and Supergirl? Who are Nazis? And decided to mess up the Flash's wedding because ... um, evilness? But because it's the Flash, the wedding guests included the actual Green Arrow and Supergirl but also ... um ... flamy person and woman possessed by ice demon and teleporter guy and guy with a flamethrower because why not and ... secret ... agent ... women? Who are friends or maybe girlfriends? Which made attacking the wedding a really stupid idea, because it's an entire building filled with superheroes? And wait, were there two evil Green Arrows? 'Cause, like there was one up in the balcony and one down below?
posted by kyrademon at 3:07 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Also we have a nice, friendly, little group of DCCW FanFare regulars who would be happy to have you join us laughing at these shows.
posted by sardonyx at 3:08 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 3:08 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
I think I need to make a chart and watch this randomly out of order (season sided die available?), it did not catch my interest the first seasons but caught one randomly and then started from the beginning. It's much better totally out of context not knowing what is going on.
posted by sammyo at 3:09 PM on April 4, 2018
posted by sammyo at 3:09 PM on April 4, 2018
Also we have a nice, friendly, little group of DCCW FanFare regulars who would be happy to have you join us laughing at these shows.
The descriptions of this weeks' episode are worth the read.
https://fanfare.metafilter.com/11226/Legends-of-Tomorrow-Guest-Starring-John-Noble
posted by mikelieman at 3:13 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
The descriptions of this weeks' episode are worth the read.
https://fanfare.metafilter.com/11226/Legends-of-Tomorrow-Guest-Starring-John-Noble
posted by mikelieman at 3:13 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm not up to date with LoT, but it's easily my favorite CW show, and probably my favorite superhero show (I like Gotham, too). I'm glad that people are finally coming around to it, but I loved this thing from the jump. The Flash lost me, Arrow never really had me, Supergirl never quite lived up to its promise, but Legends owns.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:15 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:15 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
My manager is a massive comic book aficionado and we were talking about how this show makes some of the convoluted comic book time-lines that have existed in comic book history seem mild by comparison. I'm not really looking to get into any more comic book related film/television (there's already TOO much on my plate with Marvel/Defenders), but I love these descriptions. I snort laughed.
posted by Fizz at 3:16 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Fizz at 3:16 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Oh, yeah, and since the beginning of the damned show, with Rip Hunter I've been waiting for Booster Gold to drop, and then of course I think that the Blue Beetle isn't doing anything these days...
It'll probably be dangling until Season 10: Blue and Gold.
posted by mikelieman at 3:18 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
It'll probably be dangling until Season 10: Blue and Gold.
posted by mikelieman at 3:18 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
"Can I please just watch superheroes punch Nazis at the Flash's wedding? Yes, you can!"
Is this where the Flash marries his sister? Because while I watched maybe five minutes every few episodes, that plotline kinda stuck out.
posted by asperity at 3:19 PM on April 4, 2018
Is this where the Flash marries his sister? Because while I watched maybe five minutes every few episodes, that plotline kinda stuck out.
posted by asperity at 3:19 PM on April 4, 2018
flame dude (that is really two guys merging) is Firestorm
woman with ice powers is maybe Killer Frost, but could be Ice?
teleporter guy has to be Mirror Master
and the flame cannon dude seems to be Heat Wave
posted by oddman at 3:19 PM on April 4, 2018
woman with ice powers is maybe Killer Frost, but could be Ice?
teleporter guy has to be Mirror Master
and the flame cannon dude seems to be Heat Wave
posted by oddman at 3:19 PM on April 4, 2018
Oh, for goodness' sakes... the idea that Supergirl can shoot heat rays out of her eyes, but you can blind her with a sparkly thing while you run away, is just silly. And she's got super-speed, why is she just standing there while Evil Green Arrow trundles over and picks up Evil Supergirl and does his thing? She's fast enough that that's gotta feel like waiting in line at the supermarket. She's so underused--she's the only one in the group who doesn't get to just totally beat the crap out of anybody. And where's Firestorm for most of the fight--and Barry, for that matter? What are they doing while Black Canary and the other lady spend ten minutes fighting Hooded Guy? I hate superhero fights...
That said, this looks like a lot of fun.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:21 PM on April 4, 2018
That said, this looks like a lot of fun.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:21 PM on April 4, 2018
Hey while we're talking up CW hero shows, Black Lightning has been well received.
posted by oddman at 3:22 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by oddman at 3:22 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
teleporter guy has to be Mirror Master
Vibe. But it's totally understandable that someone wouldn't remember the breakdancing superhero.
posted by haileris23 at 3:24 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Vibe. But it's totally understandable that someone wouldn't remember the breakdancing superhero.
posted by haileris23 at 3:24 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Speaking of gorillas... God bless, you Julie Schwartz, for figuring out that sales went up every month there was a gorilla on the cover.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:26 PM on April 4, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:26 PM on April 4, 2018 [9 favorites]
Vibe? When did he get teleporting powers? (OK, sure, I can see it's Vibe, now that you mention it.)
posted by oddman at 3:27 PM on April 4, 2018
posted by oddman at 3:27 PM on April 4, 2018
I've been trying to convince myself that Legion is a good show but that 3 minute clip of a time traveling talking ape attacking young Obama at college has me second-guessing all my decisions.
posted by cazoo at 3:29 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by cazoo at 3:29 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
> "Is this where the Flash marries his sister?"
Wait, what?
posted by kyrademon at 3:35 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Wait, what?
posted by kyrademon at 3:35 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Wait, what?
That was my reaction, too! Though this was on The Flash, not LoT. Also I think time travel, alternate timelines, and adoption were all involved but I'm still pretty sure Flash ended up with his father and father-in-law being the same person and that this was somehow just something the show decided to go with.
I am not about to search for more info to confirm the details at work.
posted by asperity at 3:47 PM on April 4, 2018
That was my reaction, too! Though this was on The Flash, not LoT. Also I think time travel, alternate timelines, and adoption were all involved but I'm still pretty sure Flash ended up with his father and father-in-law being the same person and that this was somehow just something the show decided to go with.
I am not about to search for more info to confirm the details at work.
posted by asperity at 3:47 PM on April 4, 2018
Could I trouble someone for a full roll call of the heroes and villains involved in that wedding fight?
In roughly order of dramatic appearance:
Barry Allen / The Flash, the groom catching bullets
Iris West, the bride, technically Barry's foster sister but they worked it out moving on now okay
Jefferson "Jax" Jackson & Dr. Martin Stein, AKA Firestorm
Kara Danvers / Supergirl, who lives in a different dimension but visited for the wedding because she's good friends with Barry
Alex Danvers (Kara's adoptive sister) and Sara Lance / White Canary (Team Captain of the Legends), ripping their fancy dresses to do battle; they also hooked up with each other at the rehearsal dinner
Cisco Ramon / Vibe and Caitlin Snow / her antihero alternate personality Killer Frost
Mick Rory / Heat Wave, one of Flash's Rogues in the comics and one of TV Team Legend's best breakout antihero characters
Wally West / Kid Flash catching bullets, a recent much-improved import to Team Legend
Oliver Queen / Green Arrow, who was carrying a collapsible bow under his groomsman tuxedo because he's the goddamn Batman
Harry Wells with the glasses, AKA Earth-2 Harrison Wells, because actor Tom Cavanagh plays at least one new alternate version of Harrison Wells every season, but Harry Wells is my favorite
posted by nicebookrack at 3:48 PM on April 4, 2018 [19 favorites]
In roughly order of dramatic appearance:
Barry Allen / The Flash, the groom catching bullets
Iris West, the bride, technically Barry's foster sister but they worked it out moving on now okay
Jefferson "Jax" Jackson & Dr. Martin Stein, AKA Firestorm
Kara Danvers / Supergirl, who lives in a different dimension but visited for the wedding because she's good friends with Barry
Alex Danvers (Kara's adoptive sister) and Sara Lance / White Canary (Team Captain of the Legends), ripping their fancy dresses to do battle; they also hooked up with each other at the rehearsal dinner
Cisco Ramon / Vibe and Caitlin Snow / her antihero alternate personality Killer Frost
Mick Rory / Heat Wave, one of Flash's Rogues in the comics and one of TV Team Legend's best breakout antihero characters
Wally West / Kid Flash catching bullets, a recent much-improved import to Team Legend
Oliver Queen / Green Arrow, who was carrying a collapsible bow under his groomsman tuxedo because he's the goddamn Batman
Harry Wells with the glasses, AKA Earth-2 Harrison Wells, because actor Tom Cavanagh plays at least one new alternate version of Harrison Wells every season, but Harry Wells is my favorite
posted by nicebookrack at 3:48 PM on April 4, 2018 [19 favorites]
Barry was fostered after the death of his mother and the imprisonment of his father. Iris is his guardian's daughter. It's OK, alright?
posted by SPrintF at 3:48 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 3:48 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Iris is Barry Allen/the Flash's sort-of adoptive sister (he was taken in by her dad after his [Barry's] father was arrested for killing his wife/Barry's mother -- which of course he didn't do, but that's another story). If Barry had been "adopted" as a teenager, not as a little boy, or if Barry didn't pretty much consider Iris' dad his own dad (and if their father/son relationship weren't so convincing that it makes you wish Joe West were your dad)...I mean the show would have to have played its cards a lot different to make Barry and Iris not seem sooooo creepy.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:51 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:51 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Mick Rory / Heat Wave, one of Flash's Rogues in the comics and one of TV Team Legend's best breakout antihero characters
I miss Leonard.
posted by mikelieman at 3:51 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
I miss Leonard.
posted by mikelieman at 3:51 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
The cherry on the top of that wedding scene was the minister, guest star William Katt (the Greatest American Hero).
posted by sardonyx at 3:55 PM on April 4, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 3:55 PM on April 4, 2018 [7 favorites]
Also, I totally didn't see the credit there the first time I read this because I was so delighted, hahaha. Thanks, nicebookrack! (Excellent annotation, too!)
Also, yes, everyone should be watching Legends of Tomorrow. Maybe skip season 1, but it's become one of my favorite things on TV since then.
posted by mordax at 4:07 PM on April 4, 2018
Also, yes, everyone should be watching Legends of Tomorrow. Maybe skip season 1, but it's become one of my favorite things on TV since then.
posted by mordax at 4:07 PM on April 4, 2018
I miss Leonard
I miss the Arrowverse Captain Cold / Leonard Snart so much it is still a physical ache and the CW should pay Wentworth Miller whatever he wants to return whenever he wants just to read the phonebook as Len. The Legends show is better than ever, but everything is better with more Snart. Dominic Purcell as Mick Rory and Wentworth Miller as Leonard Snart trade on all their years of rapport from Prison Break for the ColdWave relationship.
Plot-wise Legends of Tomorrow doesn't really take off in gleeful crazy-awesome until season 2. But season 1 is still 100% worth watching (and is on sale this week for $5 from your digital retailer of choice, hint hint) alone for the heartbreaking implosion of Mick and Leonard's lifetime friendship / criminal partnership.
posted by nicebookrack at 4:09 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
I miss the Arrowverse Captain Cold / Leonard Snart so much it is still a physical ache and the CW should pay Wentworth Miller whatever he wants to return whenever he wants just to read the phonebook as Len. The Legends show is better than ever, but everything is better with more Snart. Dominic Purcell as Mick Rory and Wentworth Miller as Leonard Snart trade on all their years of rapport from Prison Break for the ColdWave relationship.
Plot-wise Legends of Tomorrow doesn't really take off in gleeful crazy-awesome until season 2. But season 1 is still 100% worth watching (and is on sale this week for $5 from your digital retailer of choice, hint hint) alone for the heartbreaking implosion of Mick and Leonard's lifetime friendship / criminal partnership.
posted by nicebookrack at 4:09 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
Helpful Tip: fast-forward through all the LoT season 1 scenes with Hawkgirl/Hawkman; they will never be plot-relevant again
posted by nicebookrack at 4:11 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 4:11 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Helpful Tip: fast-forward through all the LoT season 1 scenes with Hawkgirl/Hawkman; they will never be plot-relevant again
This is also a fine way to handle S1. There's plenty of good stuff there, just not the actual A-plot arc.
posted by mordax at 4:15 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is also a fine way to handle S1. There's plenty of good stuff there, just not the actual A-plot arc.
posted by mordax at 4:15 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Huh. I did indeed give up halfway through season 1 because I liked half the crew and really, really disliked the other half. Seems like they cut out the dead weight. I suppose I should give it another shot.
posted by Justinian at 4:20 PM on April 4, 2018
posted by Justinian at 4:20 PM on April 4, 2018
Also I get uncomfortable every time Brandon Routh is on the screen, wondering if inside he feels like Alan Rickman in Galaxy Quest? "I played the MAN OF STEEL on the silver screen! And now I'm a cut-rate hybrid of Iron Man and Ant-Man on a low budget CW weekly?!?"
Hey, at least he's working.
posted by Justinian at 4:24 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Hey, at least he's working.
posted by Justinian at 4:24 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
You will also spend much of LoT season fuming in rage at Captain Rip Hunter for being THE WORST, but be comforted by the fact that season 2+ fully acknowledges and embraces the reality that Rip Hunter is, indeed, The Worst, and we love him more for this.
(You will not rage at season 1 Hawkman for being The Worst because there is no there there in the character to be mad at; he is a void of personality and charisma that takes up space and screentime. In comparison, Rip Hunter is a rich human tapestry, albeit an awful one.)
posted by nicebookrack at 4:29 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
(You will not rage at season 1 Hawkman for being The Worst because there is no there there in the character to be mad at; he is a void of personality and charisma that takes up space and screentime. In comparison, Rip Hunter is a rich human tapestry, albeit an awful one.)
posted by nicebookrack at 4:29 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
The Arrowverse crossover eps are some of my favorite things on TV, and one of the best parts are the musical themes of the different characters woven throughout. You can hear it a bit in the wedding scene, like when Oliver busts out his bow accompanied by a few bars of the Green Arrow theme. They also do this with the Flash theme whenever they have Barry-as-speedster showing up on Arrow (even as a blur).
I can't stop rewatching these scenes because the leitmotifs give me such a happy feeling. It's like a little surprise jolt of pure pleasure. Composers are some of the unsung heroes of these shows.
(Also, the Hawkpeople were The Worst.)
posted by Salieri at 4:33 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
I can't stop rewatching these scenes because the leitmotifs give me such a happy feeling. It's like a little surprise jolt of pure pleasure. Composers are some of the unsung heroes of these shows.
(Also, the Hawkpeople were The Worst.)
posted by Salieri at 4:33 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
CW superhero show rundown:
Arrow: what if Batman, but archery themed
Flash: "this shows why Evil will always triumph, because Good ... is Dumb"
Supergirl: godDAMN this actress/show is charming
Legends of Tomorrow: band of misfit c-list supers with a time machine, sometimes screw things up for the better
Season 2 is where they figured out that instead of being grimdark, or soapy melodrama, or cloyingly earnest (see above), Legends should be the one in the bunch that loosens up and just has a bunch of lovable dummies go on adventures.
Some Legends of Tomorrow episode summaries:
-The Legends find themselves fighting for survival against Confederate zombies in the Civil War.
-The Legends land in France during World War I and enlist the aid of J.R.R. Tolkien to retrieve the last pieces of the Spear of Destiny from the Legion of Doom.
-When the Time Bureau relieves the Legends of duty, they must steal back the Waverider when Julius Caesar is spotted in Aruba.
-The Legends track down an anachronism in 1930s Hollywood, where Helen of Troy has started a war between two film studios.
I know, right?
I really enjoyed the trend they started last year, where for 'sweeps week' (is that still a thing?), all 4 shows do a 4-part crossover where everyone shows up on everyone else's shows that week. This year's invasion by Earth-X, the alternate dimension where some heroes are Nazi versions and some bad guys are freedom fighters (the wedding scene above is from that) might be a good thing to check out if you want a peek at the casting / production values / etc to see what the appeal is for the way CW is doing superheroes on TV.
posted by bartleby at 4:36 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Arrow: what if Batman, but archery themed
Flash: "this shows why Evil will always triumph, because Good ... is Dumb"
Supergirl: godDAMN this actress/show is charming
Legends of Tomorrow: band of misfit c-list supers with a time machine, sometimes screw things up for the better
Season 2 is where they figured out that instead of being grimdark, or soapy melodrama, or cloyingly earnest (see above), Legends should be the one in the bunch that loosens up and just has a bunch of lovable dummies go on adventures.
Some Legends of Tomorrow episode summaries:
-The Legends find themselves fighting for survival against Confederate zombies in the Civil War.
-The Legends land in France during World War I and enlist the aid of J.R.R. Tolkien to retrieve the last pieces of the Spear of Destiny from the Legion of Doom.
-When the Time Bureau relieves the Legends of duty, they must steal back the Waverider when Julius Caesar is spotted in Aruba.
-The Legends track down an anachronism in 1930s Hollywood, where Helen of Troy has started a war between two film studios.
I know, right?
I really enjoyed the trend they started last year, where for 'sweeps week' (is that still a thing?), all 4 shows do a 4-part crossover where everyone shows up on everyone else's shows that week. This year's invasion by Earth-X, the alternate dimension where some heroes are Nazi versions and some bad guys are freedom fighters (the wedding scene above is from that) might be a good thing to check out if you want a peek at the casting / production values / etc to see what the appeal is for the way CW is doing superheroes on TV.
posted by bartleby at 4:36 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
For some behind the scenes fun, the Legends crew does music videos. We saw these costumes on the Waverider but didn't see the mission. This was done as a promo for the next episode (and posted by numaner in the current episode discussion).
posted by sardonyx at 4:49 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 4:49 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
The extra Green Arrow that Sara Lance and Alex Danvers fought in the wedding scene was a clever bit of Arrow fan service. Last season's big bad was a guy named Prometheus, who was out for revenge against Oliver Queen/Green Arrow and did so by going through the same training, only better and evil, as Oliver. That's why he was sort of costumed like GA in the fight.
Anyway, Prometheus was in disguise for the first half of last season. The literal cover-up lead some fans to speculate that Prometheus was Tommy Merlyn, Oliver Queen's best friend who died in S1 (death isn't necessarily final in comics) and son of Oliver's frenemy Malcolm Merlyn and that there would be a shocking reveal. It turned out that Prometheus was not Tommy. For the wedding this season they got Colin Donnell, who played Tommy, to come back and play Earth X Prometheus for a delayed, and delightful, reveal.
posted by plastic_animals at 4:53 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Anyway, Prometheus was in disguise for the first half of last season. The literal cover-up lead some fans to speculate that Prometheus was Tommy Merlyn, Oliver Queen's best friend who died in S1 (death isn't necessarily final in comics) and son of Oliver's frenemy Malcolm Merlyn and that there would be a shocking reveal. It turned out that Prometheus was not Tommy. For the wedding this season they got Colin Donnell, who played Tommy, to come back and play Earth X Prometheus for a delayed, and delightful, reveal.
posted by plastic_animals at 4:53 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
2014 NBC Constantine John Constantine: why would you think Constantine is bisexual, we never said he wasn't bisexual, maybe Constantine will be bisexual in a episode five seasons from now if you squint hard, does Constantine really need to be bisexual
2018 Legends of Tomorrow Constantine: "HAVE I MENTIONED I AM BISEXUAL TODAY"
posted by nicebookrack at 4:59 PM on April 4, 2018 [13 favorites]
2018 Legends of Tomorrow Constantine: "HAVE I MENTIONED I AM BISEXUAL TODAY"
posted by nicebookrack at 4:59 PM on April 4, 2018 [13 favorites]
Some Legends of Tomorrow episode summaries:
Oh, wow. So, I guess "College-aged Barack Obama attacked by a sentient, villainous gorilla" is barely even a blip in their larger universe. Also, I forgot that there are (at least) two major gorilla villains in DC world, Gorilla Grodd and Monsieur Mallah.
Meanwhile, I wouldn't mind seeing a limited series spinoff, "The Adventures of Young Barack." That actor really nailed the voice.
posted by mhum at 5:01 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
Oh, wow. So, I guess "College-aged Barack Obama attacked by a sentient, villainous gorilla" is barely even a blip in their larger universe. Also, I forgot that there are (at least) two major gorilla villains in DC world, Gorilla Grodd and Monsieur Mallah.
Meanwhile, I wouldn't mind seeing a limited series spinoff, "The Adventures of Young Barack." That actor really nailed the voice.
posted by mhum at 5:01 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
Anyway, Prometheus was in ... delightful, reveal.
how do folks keep track of all this, random goofy TT paradox is enough!
posted by sammyo at 5:01 PM on April 4, 2018
how do folks keep track of all this, random goofy TT paradox is enough!
posted by sammyo at 5:01 PM on April 4, 2018
salieri:I can't stop rewatching these scenes because the leitmotifs give me such a happy feeling. It's like a little surprise jolt of pure pleasure. Composers are some of the unsung heroes of these shows.
One easter egg that made some longtime fans tear up when watching the wedding was Supergirl singing the song that the Flash proposed to Iris with, in the episode where the two of them were trapped in a musical together without their powers several seasons back. I guess it helps when two of your leads come from Glee.
posted by bartleby at 5:16 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
One easter egg that made some longtime fans tear up when watching the wedding was Supergirl singing the song that the Flash proposed to Iris with, in the episode where the two of them were trapped in a musical together without their powers several seasons back. I guess it helps when two of your leads come from Glee.
posted by bartleby at 5:16 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
(The original Flash/Supergirl crossover "World's Finest" is amazing and features so many gif-worthy reaction shots.)
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 5:37 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 5:37 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, CW/DC's latest show, Black Lightning, is doing some interesting things and getting praise for them, and I can't help wondering if it'll join the Everybody Crossover next year and if that would damage the 'Lightningverse'.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:39 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:39 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
This stuff is why I watch all the CW hero shows, but Legends is best, followed by Black Lightning and Supergirl, then Flash (like the cast but man there's a lot of dumb) and Arrow (frequent depressing wankery).
I totally think Black Lightning will cross over sometime now that they've mentioned Vixen and Supergirl and explained how metas are there, plus how could they *not?*
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:43 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I totally think Black Lightning will cross over sometime now that they've mentioned Vixen and Supergirl and explained how metas are there, plus how could they *not?*
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:43 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
how do folks keep track of all this, random goofy TT paradox is enough!
Following this CW/DC stuff is child's play when you've been a Doctor Who fan for decades.
posted by plastic_animals at 5:50 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
Following this CW/DC stuff is child's play when you've been a Doctor Who fan for decades.
posted by plastic_animals at 5:50 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
Supergirl singing the song that the Flash proposed to Iris with
Awww, I forgot it was the same song! Barry and Kara together are the biggest dorks and I love their friendship.
Also I get uncomfortable every time Brandon Routh is on the screen, wondering if inside he feels like Alan Rickman in Galaxy Quest? "I played the MAN OF STEEL on the silver screen! And now I'm a cut-rate hybrid of Iron Man and Ant-Man on a low budget CW weekly?!?"
I have to give Brandon Routh a ton of credit for what he's doing on Legends. He's really inhabited the character of Ray Palmer - the way he just totally goes for the earnest, open nerdiness is almost uncomfortable at times. I legit get second-hand embarrassment watching him sometimes, but I think that's actually really awesome. His character wears his "like me, please!" heart on his sleeve without an ounce of cool, and kudos to Routh for not holding back.
posted by Salieri at 5:54 PM on April 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
Awww, I forgot it was the same song! Barry and Kara together are the biggest dorks and I love their friendship.
Also I get uncomfortable every time Brandon Routh is on the screen, wondering if inside he feels like Alan Rickman in Galaxy Quest? "I played the MAN OF STEEL on the silver screen! And now I'm a cut-rate hybrid of Iron Man and Ant-Man on a low budget CW weekly?!?"
I have to give Brandon Routh a ton of credit for what he's doing on Legends. He's really inhabited the character of Ray Palmer - the way he just totally goes for the earnest, open nerdiness is almost uncomfortable at times. I legit get second-hand embarrassment watching him sometimes, but I think that's actually really awesome. His character wears his "like me, please!" heart on his sleeve without an ounce of cool, and kudos to Routh for not holding back.
posted by Salieri at 5:54 PM on April 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
One easter egg that made some longtime fans tear up when watching the wedding was Supergirl singing the song that the Flash proposed to Iris with, in the episode where the two of them were trapped in a musical together without their powers several seasons back. I guess it helps when two of your leads come from Glee.
Once More With Spandex.
posted by scalefree at 6:33 PM on April 4, 2018 [9 favorites]
Once More With Spandex.
posted by scalefree at 6:33 PM on April 4, 2018 [9 favorites]
Routh's Ray Palmer is a ray of sunshine and the Flarrowverse equivalent of comics Nightwing by virtue of being friends with ALL the other superheroes. Even the people who think he's annoying (Oliver) still really like him (OLIVER). Mick Rory, who is officially Not Here To Make Friends, LOVES Ray. One of the best LoT eps this season, "Phone Home," which was a straight up '80s rip of E.T. with Kid Ray as Elliott, was largely a venue for new character Zari to realize that A)yes Ray really is THAT much of a cheerful big-hearted puppy with the survival instincts of a shrub B)yes all the Legends will cut you if you hurt their puppy.
posted by nicebookrack at 6:49 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 6:49 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
One of my favorite winks at the viewer was in Flash Season Two when, at the end of the episode, Barry Allen-Flash and Jay Garrick-Flash turn together to help their fallen comrade and precisely recreate the cover of FLASH 123, "The Flash of Two Worlds."
posted by SPrintF at 6:57 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 6:57 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Also, I forgot that there are (at least) two major gorilla villains in DC world, Gorilla Grodd and Monsieur Mallah.
Third (relatively) major one is Ultra-Humanite, at least some of the time.
Gorilla Boss is not major, but exists.
posted by Four Ds at 7:25 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Third (relatively) major one is Ultra-Humanite, at least some of the time.
Gorilla Boss is not major, but exists.
posted by Four Ds at 7:25 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
And hey, Prometheus has been in the comics since 1998!
posted by vrakatar at 8:01 PM on April 4, 2018
posted by vrakatar at 8:01 PM on April 4, 2018
Oh my god I totally forgot that this is the SECOND time this season that Gorilla Grodd has almost killed an American President!!! In episode 3x07 Grodd hit the Vietnam War to try to kill Lyndon B. Johnson to start World War III! GRODD BLESS AMERICA.
The rest of that episode was an unusually serious and sad character study of Mick Rory, who encounters his own father as a a young soldier and realizes how much PTSD from the war turned this man into the horrifically abusive father Mick knew as a child. How did a killer telepathic gorilla episode make me cry over the resident pyromaniac??? Trigger warning for self-harm
posted by nicebookrack at 8:11 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
The rest of that episode was an unusually serious and sad character study of Mick Rory, who encounters his own father as a a young soldier and realizes how much PTSD from the war turned this man into the horrifically abusive father Mick knew as a child. How did a killer telepathic gorilla episode make me cry over the resident pyromaniac??? Trigger warning for self-harm
posted by nicebookrack at 8:11 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Wait, did Luthor really call Grodd a "half-baked objectivist" in that clip?
posted by Naberius at 8:12 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Naberius at 8:12 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Also, I forgot that there are (at least) two major gorilla villains in DC world, Gorilla Grodd and Monsieur Mallah.
Third (relatively) major one is Ultra-Humanite, at least some of the time.
Related note: don't forget Detective Chimp!
posted by oddman at 8:22 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Third (relatively) major one is Ultra-Humanite, at least some of the time.
Related note: don't forget Detective Chimp!
posted by oddman at 8:22 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
I had to do a rewatch, and forgot that 1st Season Big Bad was Vandal Savage.
S01E03
Martin Stein: You should see the first fragment.
Atom: No sign of it. Did I miss it?
Martin Stein: It's the size of an iceberg. It seems highly unlikely that you could miss it.
Atom: That's probably what they said on the Titanic.
( Victor Garber (Stein ) was in the movie, Titanic )
posted by mikelieman at 8:46 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
S01E03
Martin Stein: You should see the first fragment.
Atom: No sign of it. Did I miss it?
Martin Stein: It's the size of an iceberg. It seems highly unlikely that you could miss it.
Atom: That's probably what they said on the Titanic.
( Victor Garber (Stein ) was in the movie, Titanic )
posted by mikelieman at 8:46 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Related note: don't forget Detective Chimp!
Yeah, LoT guys, work in Shadowpact...
posted by mikelieman at 8:48 PM on April 4, 2018
Yeah, LoT guys, work in Shadowpact...
posted by mikelieman at 8:48 PM on April 4, 2018
Never forget the time Victor Garber saved the NASA moon landing by bursting into song!
posted by nicebookrack at 9:01 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 9:01 PM on April 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
Batman: super falling skills ☹️
Green Arrow: slow like turtle ☹️
DCEU Justice League: sorely lacking in slooooow-mooooo powerrrrrrr waaaaalk ☹️
posted by nicebookrack at 9:06 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Green Arrow: slow like turtle ☹️
DCEU Justice League: sorely lacking in slooooow-mooooo powerrrrrrr waaaaalk ☹️
posted by nicebookrack at 9:06 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
That clip from "Crisis on Earth-X" with grumpy Oliver is one of my absolute favorite moments from the whole series of episodes:
"Just a quick reminder: super speed! I don't have it!"
I think my favorite Oliver Queen is when he's off his own show and interacting with the other superheroes. In particular, seeing him with the preternaturally cheerful Kara is a joy to behold, especially since he's clearly in awe of how powerful she is. I also like it when he's in mentoring-Barry mode. It really brings out the best in his own character, and also punctures some of the grimdark claustrophobia that can arise when he's dealing with just his own problems on his own show.
(Also of note: Harry Wells' instructions to Supergirl, "You need to fly her up...up...and away!" I am easily amused, and Tom Cavanagh is an absolute treasure.)
posted by Salieri at 9:32 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
"Just a quick reminder: super speed! I don't have it!"
I think my favorite Oliver Queen is when he's off his own show and interacting with the other superheroes. In particular, seeing him with the preternaturally cheerful Kara is a joy to behold, especially since he's clearly in awe of how powerful she is. I also like it when he's in mentoring-Barry mode. It really brings out the best in his own character, and also punctures some of the grimdark claustrophobia that can arise when he's dealing with just his own problems on his own show.
(Also of note: Harry Wells' instructions to Supergirl, "You need to fly her up...up...and away!" I am easily amused, and Tom Cavanagh is an absolute treasure.)
posted by Salieri at 9:32 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Also, I forgot that there are (at least) two major gorilla villains in DC world, Gorilla Grodd and Monsieur Mallah.
Don't forget Titano.
posted by Paul Slade at 1:05 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Don't forget Titano.
posted by Paul Slade at 1:05 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Me: Wait, did Luthor really call Grodd a "half-baked objectivist" in that clip?
Okay, yes, apparently he does. From the DC Universe Animated wiki (and of course there's a DC Universe Animated wiki): During his fight with Grodd, Luthor refers to him as a "half-baked Objectivist", a possible reference to the school of thought developed by Ayn Rand. Grodd expresses some Objectivist ideals in "Secret Society".
posted by Naberius at 4:57 AM on April 5, 2018
Okay, yes, apparently he does. From the DC Universe Animated wiki (and of course there's a DC Universe Animated wiki): During his fight with Grodd, Luthor refers to him as a "half-baked Objectivist", a possible reference to the school of thought developed by Ayn Rand. Grodd expresses some Objectivist ideals in "Secret Society".
posted by Naberius at 4:57 AM on April 5, 2018
70s TV Wonder Woman also had Gargantua, who closes the loop by being a Nazi too. Well,, got the Clockwork-Orange treatment by Nazis so he'd attack Our Heroine. Pavlovian Nazi.
posted by Quindar Beep at 7:38 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Quindar Beep at 7:38 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
TV DC Universe is so much more fun and engaging than the Cinematic universe, cartoons and live action both. Wonder Woman was great, but it's not Time Traveling Gorilla Super-Genius Villain great. The CW stuff has got the dark soap opera of 80's DC at its best, and the breathless, bright imagination of Silver Age DC at ts best, and I really like it.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:09 AM on April 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:09 AM on April 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
It should be noted that Lynda Carter, who played 70s TV Wonder Woman, has played the president, a shape-shifting alien, in Supergirl. The CW/DC shows do like to bring back actors who have acted on earlier DC-based shows. In addition to Carter, Dean Cain, Teri Hatcher and Carl Lumbly have all appeared in Supergirl.
posted by plastic_animals at 8:27 AM on April 5, 2018
posted by plastic_animals at 8:27 AM on April 5, 2018
I think Brandon Routh did some earlier work for DC too.
posted by straight at 9:23 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by straight at 9:23 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
No, wait, I'm thinking of the SuperVegan Ex Boyfriend in Scott Pilgrim and that was Oni Press.
posted by straight at 9:24 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by straight at 9:24 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
and ... secret ... agent ... women? Who are friends or maybe girlfriends?
tee hee!
Never forget the time Victor Garber saved the NASA moon landing by bursting into song!
and also when he sang Edelweiss from the Sound of Music to Nazis in Paris in 1942 because he resembles Max Lorenz, Hitler’s favorite German tenor, and was called on stage by a Nazi commander to sing.
posted by numaner at 9:38 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
tee hee!
Never forget the time Victor Garber saved the NASA moon landing by bursting into song!
and also when he sang Edelweiss from the Sound of Music to Nazis in Paris in 1942 because he resembles Max Lorenz, Hitler’s favorite German tenor, and was called on stage by a Nazi commander to sing.
posted by numaner at 9:38 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
Anyone cast in the Flarrowverse with any measure of musical ability WILL be jazzing out a tune onscreen for some invented reason. It's the Chekhov's gun of CW actor skills.
Actress Tala Ashe plays the violin, so do we need a delightfully bonkers Legends episode where her character Zari gets stuck in a Groundhog Day time loop and eventually gets bored enough to learn to play violin? TAKE IT AWAY, ZARI!
(That was also the episode in which we learn Mick writes pulpy space adventure romance novels under a pen name, which I choose to believe is how actor Dominic Purcell spends his downtime on set.)
posted by nicebookrack at 10:23 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
Actress Tala Ashe plays the violin, so do we need a delightfully bonkers Legends episode where her character Zari gets stuck in a Groundhog Day time loop and eventually gets bored enough to learn to play violin? TAKE IT AWAY, ZARI!
(That was also the episode in which we learn Mick writes pulpy space adventure romance novels under a pen name, which I choose to believe is how actor Dominic Purcell spends his downtime on set.)
posted by nicebookrack at 10:23 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
Also, these shows have been doing really progressive rewrites of classic characters that I really appreciate. The diversity is amazing.
I mean, Sara Lance, White Canary, is bisexual and a female captain. Zari, the second newest member, is Muslim and observed Ramadan in a recent episode. Constantine is also bisexual. Earth-X Leonard Snart, Captain Cold, is gay and his boyfriend is Earth-X The Ray. Alex Danvers, Supergirl's sister, had an amazing coming out episode. Mister Terrific is openly gay. And of course a bunch of characters are non-white in these shows as opposed to the comics.
posted by numaner at 10:35 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
I mean, Sara Lance, White Canary, is bisexual and a female captain. Zari, the second newest member, is Muslim and observed Ramadan in a recent episode. Constantine is also bisexual. Earth-X Leonard Snart, Captain Cold, is gay and his boyfriend is Earth-X The Ray. Alex Danvers, Supergirl's sister, had an amazing coming out episode. Mister Terrific is openly gay. And of course a bunch of characters are non-white in these shows as opposed to the comics.
posted by numaner at 10:35 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
In case you haven't seen them, the gag reels are themed like classic 90's superhero shows.
Season 1
Season 2
I guess the budget doesn't let them build sets that don't fall apart occasionally.
posted by numaner at 10:45 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Season 1
Season 2
I guess the budget doesn't let them build sets that don't fall apart occasionally.
posted by numaner at 10:45 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
An interview in which Brandon Routh breaks down the Legends of Tomorrow Season 3 finale and reveals his Season 4 wishes and discusses how the show improved from Season 1 to Season 2.
posted by plastic_animals at 7:02 PM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by plastic_animals at 7:02 PM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
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posted by asteria at 2:49 PM on April 4, 2018 [5 favorites]