what do we know?
July 28, 2018 9:39 PM Subscribe
Gaming’s toxic men, explained, Colin Campbell for Polygon. With Kate Miltner [site, twitter], Anita Sarkeesian [twitter], Dr. Kishonna Gray [site, twitter1, MIT, twitter2], Soraya Chemaly [WMC, site, twitter, tumblr], Mattie Brice [site] , Bridget Blodgett [site, twitter], Thom Avella [youtube, twitter], Carolyn Petit [twitter, tumblr] , Kahlief Adams [twitter, podcast], Jen Golbeck [site, twitter], and Paul Booth [site]
I was wondering if they'd be foolish enough to allow uncensored comments on the article... Nope, they aren't new:
If you’d like to comment on this article, you can contact us via our email form, or on Facebook, Twitter and other social media outlets. We will publish the best comments in a follow-up articleposted by el io at 12:10 AM on July 29, 2018 [10 favorites]
This is an interesting article, but feels like a rough draft. It doesn't seem to really ever get around to addressing the premise.
posted by Brocktoon at 1:54 AM on July 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Brocktoon at 1:54 AM on July 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
Yesterday fings linked to this old NYTimes story about a troop of baboons who achieved utopia when all their aggressive males died off, and, well. It’s science.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:55 AM on July 29, 2018 [22 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 4:55 AM on July 29, 2018 [22 favorites]
I really wanted to read a thoughtful analysis but the format of random answers to seemingly random questions plus the formatting put me off. The use of rubrics in the intro should have tipped me off.
This has made me irrationally angry because as a woman living in a city where a self-proclaimed intel killed people with a van, and a mother of sons, I would really like to understand the toxicity of this culture. I would appreciate more thought than a pastiche of quotes from people, many of whom I already read. I wonder if we would treat other serious life-ruining topics this way editorially, like drinking and driving or something.
I am glad for the links to the thinkers though, thank you.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:06 AM on July 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
This has made me irrationally angry because as a woman living in a city where a self-proclaimed intel killed people with a van, and a mother of sons, I would really like to understand the toxicity of this culture. I would appreciate more thought than a pastiche of quotes from people, many of whom I already read. I wonder if we would treat other serious life-ruining topics this way editorially, like drinking and driving or something.
I am glad for the links to the thinkers though, thank you.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:06 AM on July 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
All throughout this article is easy to see that many of the problems with gaming being highlighted are societal problems generally and are not restricted to gaming. Many of the same problems in the gaming space are the same problems that make white identity politics so effective for the right.
Its a little disappointing how short and general the last two sections are. The "How can real change be effected?" section doesn't address the title. The "What's next?" section talks, briefly, about societal level changes that would take generations to see the effect of.
I don't know what the answer is, but don't these spaces need to continue to continue to be broken into in a more forceful, organized way? Why wouldn't these problems be confronted in the same way they would in a more "IRL" manifestation of the same issues?
posted by warbucks at 5:38 AM on July 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Its a little disappointing how short and general the last two sections are. The "How can real change be effected?" section doesn't address the title. The "What's next?" section talks, briefly, about societal level changes that would take generations to see the effect of.
I don't know what the answer is, but don't these spaces need to continue to continue to be broken into in a more forceful, organized way? Why wouldn't these problems be confronted in the same way they would in a more "IRL" manifestation of the same issues?
posted by warbucks at 5:38 AM on July 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Maybe it's my short attention span, but I like that it was presented in bite-sized chunks. One hopes that different approaches to the core argument can perhaps reach people who haven't been reached yet, who bounced off the unfamiliar concepts and language the first time they saw them.
posted by puddledork at 6:55 AM on July 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 6:55 AM on July 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
Its a little disappointing how short and general the last two sections are. The "How can real change be effected?" section doesn't address the title. The "What's next?" section talks, briefly, about societal level changes that would take generations to see the effect of.
It fits, I think, with the piece's general attempt to characterize these issues in as big picture a way as possible. Gamergate is the one real concrete "event" used to tie the mess together, with the understanding that the rest is the general mess that we swim in. "Concrete actions" are consequently going to be wishy-washy, or will have to reflect your own closeness to the industry. And, even then, those actions will only hide those men, not render them pure.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:15 AM on July 29, 2018
It fits, I think, with the piece's general attempt to characterize these issues in as big picture a way as possible. Gamergate is the one real concrete "event" used to tie the mess together, with the understanding that the rest is the general mess that we swim in. "Concrete actions" are consequently going to be wishy-washy, or will have to reflect your own closeness to the industry. And, even then, those actions will only hide those men, not render them pure.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:15 AM on July 29, 2018
This article definitely has some interesting perspectives (I really appreciated Mattie Brice's thoughts, who I've read from about this before) but I thought it was really weird that didn't talk to any academic psychologists or sociologists about this. It's weird to talk about what motivates a specific group of people without trying to actually deal with their thought processes and motivations. I poked some psychologist friends to see if they wanted to weigh in, although it's obviously a fraught subject.
posted by JZig at 2:32 PM on July 29, 2018
posted by JZig at 2:32 PM on July 29, 2018
There is no solution. There's nothing. This is only going to get worse unless, I dunno, a giant amount of moderation starts going on and the law organizations do something to fight back against online abuse, and nobody wants to do that who can do that. I don't know what we can expect folks like Anita and Zoe, who are still harassed every second, to tell us about how to solve it when they can't get it solved.
"Did integrating society make whites any less racist? Signs show not."
Well, some whites are less racist. It (used to be, at least) is better than it used to be. But I don't have the heart to discuss that one in 2018 since we are now going backwards and now it's cool and froody to do whatever you want instead of embarrassing and shameful to be a bigot.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:45 PM on July 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
"Did integrating society make whites any less racist? Signs show not."
Well, some whites are less racist. It (used to be, at least) is better than it used to be. But I don't have the heart to discuss that one in 2018 since we are now going backwards and now it's cool and froody to do whatever you want instead of embarrassing and shameful to be a bigot.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:45 PM on July 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
If all the angry miserable people gather in the same place, don’t blame the place.
If you want to change be way toxic people act, offer them a path to feeling better that works better than making other people feel bad too. If you know anything about people, you’ll know this probably wasn’t their first choice.
There are a lot of protective factors that can prevent someone from becoming a toxic isolated loser.
Friends, family, community, pets,giving and receiving love.
The sad truth is no one cared about these people before they acted out, no one will care about them when they stop, and they know it.
If you want to change people, they have to engage with you and vice versa. It seems like all we want is for the basement dwellers is to go back into their hole and die. I don’t know why we think any of them would take us up on the offer...
Although if suicide rates are any indication, maybe I’m wrong & it does work.
posted by KBGB at 4:53 PM on July 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you want to change be way toxic people act, offer them a path to feeling better that works better than making other people feel bad too. If you know anything about people, you’ll know this probably wasn’t their first choice.
There are a lot of protective factors that can prevent someone from becoming a toxic isolated loser.
Friends, family, community, pets,giving and receiving love.
The sad truth is no one cared about these people before they acted out, no one will care about them when they stop, and they know it.
If you want to change people, they have to engage with you and vice versa. It seems like all we want is for the basement dwellers is to go back into their hole and die. I don’t know why we think any of them would take us up on the offer...
Although if suicide rates are any indication, maybe I’m wrong & it does work.
posted by KBGB at 4:53 PM on July 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
I would certainly like to see it harder for these people to get (presumably) unwitting mainstream dupes to “both-sides” them into respdvtability, as happened to some extent during the height of Gamergate. Proper dicunentation of what actually happened would seem to be a way to help stopping that.
posted by Artw at 5:19 PM on July 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 5:19 PM on July 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
It’s not about both sides. Whether one side is wrong or right is immaterial, especially when both sides are suffering.
It’s about remembering that even people you don’t like are still people.
And pragmatism. The easiest way to change people is to make them better. What stick do you have left for a joyless isolated basement dweller? A worse basement?
I don’t know why people hate the suggestion that we have some compassion for even the worst among us. Especially in an argument that largely breaks down into virtue.
posted by KBGB at 6:05 PM on July 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
It’s about remembering that even people you don’t like are still people.
And pragmatism. The easiest way to change people is to make them better. What stick do you have left for a joyless isolated basement dweller? A worse basement?
I don’t know why people hate the suggestion that we have some compassion for even the worst among us. Especially in an argument that largely breaks down into virtue.
posted by KBGB at 6:05 PM on July 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
This is what these people do with compassion.
posted by Artw at 6:09 PM on July 29, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:09 PM on July 29, 2018 [6 favorites]
If you want to change people, they have to engage with you and vice versa.
I agree fully with this! The thing is, the “basement dwellers” (who are really, you know, many men not in basements) are not engaging in this particular sense themselves - they are engaging to hurt. Anita Sarkeesian’s video series could reasonably be seen as a good faith effort to have a discussion about gender in video games; the “basement dweller” response to it didn’t treat it as having good faith. People didn’t approach Gamergate in an academic way - they approached it as a way to shut down a woman.
On a per-person level, yes, absolutely - engage with someone you know who seems to be acting badly, but as a class people who attack women like this and then ask for engagement are owed nothing.
It seems like all we want is for the basement dwellers is to go back into their hole and die. I don’t know why we think any of them would take us up on the offer…
Right now, the “hole” that men get to crawl back to is the vast majority of video games. One of the interesting things that the article touches on is the simple fact that nerd culture won, and has been winning for a while. Yet somehow we’re still in collective denial about this fact. Video game players are not in a hole; they are dominant, and it’s vitally important that they come to grips with this. If you think you’re oppressed in the culture when you’re actually in charge, everything runs backwards. It is so important to accept that these men are not rare, that they aren’t powerless, and it’s important that these men recognize that too.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:22 PM on July 29, 2018 [15 favorites]
I agree fully with this! The thing is, the “basement dwellers” (who are really, you know, many men not in basements) are not engaging in this particular sense themselves - they are engaging to hurt. Anita Sarkeesian’s video series could reasonably be seen as a good faith effort to have a discussion about gender in video games; the “basement dweller” response to it didn’t treat it as having good faith. People didn’t approach Gamergate in an academic way - they approached it as a way to shut down a woman.
On a per-person level, yes, absolutely - engage with someone you know who seems to be acting badly, but as a class people who attack women like this and then ask for engagement are owed nothing.
It seems like all we want is for the basement dwellers is to go back into their hole and die. I don’t know why we think any of them would take us up on the offer…
Right now, the “hole” that men get to crawl back to is the vast majority of video games. One of the interesting things that the article touches on is the simple fact that nerd culture won, and has been winning for a while. Yet somehow we’re still in collective denial about this fact. Video game players are not in a hole; they are dominant, and it’s vitally important that they come to grips with this. If you think you’re oppressed in the culture when you’re actually in charge, everything runs backwards. It is so important to accept that these men are not rare, that they aren’t powerless, and it’s important that these men recognize that too.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:22 PM on July 29, 2018 [15 favorites]
Whether one side is wrong or right is immaterial, especially when both sides are suffering.
When one side has welcomed actual Nazis, white supremacists, and other bigots into their midst while the other side is largely marginalized groups, I'd say it's pretty goddamn material. And when one side has the political, economic, and cultural backing of an increasingly authoritarian and violent oppressive power structure while the other side has been the oppressed for years, the idea that the former is suffering in any way relative to the latter is ridiculous.
Although if suicide rates are any indication, maybe I’m wrong & it does work.
I'm not sure what this even means. It's not bigots and trolls who are killing themselves at record rates, it's their victims. Women are killing themselves at higher rates then ever before, as are POC (especially WOC), and LGBTQ people have always had astronomically rates of suicide directly attributable to harassment and hate crime violence.
I don’t know why people hate the suggestion that we have some compassion for even the worst among us. Especially in an argument that largely breaks down into virtue.
Probably because asking the victims to show compassion to their assailants while they are under attack is a pretty--and I'm putting this mildly--inappropriate ask.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:59 PM on July 29, 2018 [27 favorites]
When one side has welcomed actual Nazis, white supremacists, and other bigots into their midst while the other side is largely marginalized groups, I'd say it's pretty goddamn material. And when one side has the political, economic, and cultural backing of an increasingly authoritarian and violent oppressive power structure while the other side has been the oppressed for years, the idea that the former is suffering in any way relative to the latter is ridiculous.
Although if suicide rates are any indication, maybe I’m wrong & it does work.
I'm not sure what this even means. It's not bigots and trolls who are killing themselves at record rates, it's their victims. Women are killing themselves at higher rates then ever before, as are POC (especially WOC), and LGBTQ people have always had astronomically rates of suicide directly attributable to harassment and hate crime violence.
I don’t know why people hate the suggestion that we have some compassion for even the worst among us. Especially in an argument that largely breaks down into virtue.
Probably because asking the victims to show compassion to their assailants while they are under attack is a pretty--and I'm putting this mildly--inappropriate ask.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:59 PM on July 29, 2018 [27 favorites]
Mod note: KBGB, I can't tell if you're engaging in good faith or if you're JAQ-ing off, because it looks an awful lot like the latter. But in case you are honestly, good-faith confused as to why people aren't "meeting gamergators where they are," you can't really have a good-faith discussion with people who are harassing you, making threats of violence against you, doxxing you, swatting you, etc. If you honestly can't see the difference between a "team" (as you call it) making videos to discuss sexism in gaming and a "team" using criminal tactics to hound women and harass them out of the public sphere, forcing them to move, go into hiding, get bodyguards, cancel appearances, and quit jobs, then MetaFilter is not going to be a good fit for you.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:25 PM on July 29, 2018 [27 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:25 PM on July 29, 2018 [27 favorites]
It's hard for me to reach out to racist/sexist trolls because of the simple fact that they will not respect me because I am a woman. Even if they like me, even if they want to date me... the fundamental requirement for change here is respect, and they have none for my entire class. If the white men in this room want to try and reform members of the alt-right, I'll support them in that, but I don't have the ability to be taken seriously in those circles.
posted by storytam at 7:28 PM on July 29, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by storytam at 7:28 PM on July 29, 2018 [7 favorites]
Yep. It's kinda hard to try and find the "very fine people" on the other side and worry about their economic anxiety or whatever in between the constant flood of jokes about sending people like me to the ovens or accusations that the kinds of people I consider friends and family are perverts and pedophiles because of who they love or choose to be.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:37 PM on July 29, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 7:37 PM on July 29, 2018 [7 favorites]
When The Division came out I stumbled upon a small group of gamers in-game, people who were strangers to me, but who seemed nice enough and invited me to log onto their teamspeak and rejoin them later. I did, and it became evident that (1) they all knew each other for a while and (2) they were Republican (The Division launched in the run-up to the 2016 elections). I'm very much a liberal so, while making no secret of that, I hung around because it gave me kind of this weird window into how these types of people think.
Full disclosure: I'm a white dude, so even though I was from the other political team, I think they were still inclined to tolerate me because of that fact. While I don't recall us ever discussing GG (I stopped interacting with these people after I got tired of the game and moved on, and also because of Trump), it was pretty jaw-dropping to hear the unvarnished hatred for HRC and women in general come spouting out of these guys' mouths when there weren't any women around. There was a spectrum there too (the married ones were better behaved and less gleeful about it) but regardless it was still absolutely bonkers. I'm sure what I'm describing is not news to a lot of people but I tend to eschew multiplayer games so I'm not exposed to it much. I have to believe it's 10x worse now. But the bizarrest aspect of it was the way discussion would ping-pong from quotidian stuff like, I don't know, home maintenance, to whatever the latest crazy thing the Republicans were using as talking points. Later I realized that it only seemed bizarre because I didn't believe the talking points BS. I'm sure a left-leaning chat room would seem the same to a tea partier. There's been a lot of talk about echo chambers in recent years but I really do think that's the basis of all of it, from GG to the tea party. Social media has accelerated the balkanization of American subgroups exponentially, and we're all the worse off for it.
posted by axiom at 8:46 PM on July 29, 2018
Full disclosure: I'm a white dude, so even though I was from the other political team, I think they were still inclined to tolerate me because of that fact. While I don't recall us ever discussing GG (I stopped interacting with these people after I got tired of the game and moved on, and also because of Trump), it was pretty jaw-dropping to hear the unvarnished hatred for HRC and women in general come spouting out of these guys' mouths when there weren't any women around. There was a spectrum there too (the married ones were better behaved and less gleeful about it) but regardless it was still absolutely bonkers. I'm sure what I'm describing is not news to a lot of people but I tend to eschew multiplayer games so I'm not exposed to it much. I have to believe it's 10x worse now. But the bizarrest aspect of it was the way discussion would ping-pong from quotidian stuff like, I don't know, home maintenance, to whatever the latest crazy thing the Republicans were using as talking points. Later I realized that it only seemed bizarre because I didn't believe the talking points BS. I'm sure a left-leaning chat room would seem the same to a tea partier. There's been a lot of talk about echo chambers in recent years but I really do think that's the basis of all of it, from GG to the tea party. Social media has accelerated the balkanization of American subgroups exponentially, and we're all the worse off for it.
posted by axiom at 8:46 PM on July 29, 2018
There is no solution. There's nothing. This is only going to get worse unless, I dunno, a giant amount of moderation starts going on
The problem is fundamentally that major online institutions, ranging from GamerGate to Twitter to video have companies are in collusion with, or at least sympathetic to the harassers. If Twitter and Facebook weren't selectively enforcing their harassment policies, things would be better. If the GGers and Alt Rght and MRAs and Incels were kicked off Reddit, things would be better. If game companies didn't submit to GGers every time they get a bug up their ass, things would be better.
But, fundamentally social media is on the side of the harassers, and so things aren't going to get better any time soon.
If you want to change be way toxic people act, offer them a path to feeling better that works better than making other people feel bad too.
Be. My. Guest.
No seriously, nobody is stopping you. Go ahead, go out there and engage to your hearts content. Come back in a couple years and tell us how it went. But don't expect us to do the heavy lifting for you.
posted by happyroach at 10:29 PM on July 29, 2018 [13 favorites]
The problem is fundamentally that major online institutions, ranging from GamerGate to Twitter to video have companies are in collusion with, or at least sympathetic to the harassers. If Twitter and Facebook weren't selectively enforcing their harassment policies, things would be better. If the GGers and Alt Rght and MRAs and Incels were kicked off Reddit, things would be better. If game companies didn't submit to GGers every time they get a bug up their ass, things would be better.
But, fundamentally social media is on the side of the harassers, and so things aren't going to get better any time soon.
If you want to change be way toxic people act, offer them a path to feeling better that works better than making other people feel bad too.
Be. My. Guest.
No seriously, nobody is stopping you. Go ahead, go out there and engage to your hearts content. Come back in a couple years and tell us how it went. But don't expect us to do the heavy lifting for you.
posted by happyroach at 10:29 PM on July 29, 2018 [13 favorites]
The most common reaction I get when I try to engage in good faith with gator types (and the reactionary right in general) is “lol”
posted by flaterik at 11:00 PM on July 29, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by flaterik at 11:00 PM on July 29, 2018 [5 favorites]
The Thom Avilla portions of the article are in some ways the most interesting because they are the most banal. I was an asshole, then I learned better and stopped. Now I do this work. The end. And I think that the most distressing part of the whole notion of engaging with trolls to convince them is that in victory you get essentially nothing. You get the other person saying that yes, they were an asshole, they realized it and they’re sorry, and now they have stopped. A thousand, thousand cuts by anonymous trolls, wrangled by a few hardcore ringleaders and, in the end... “yes, I learned better, and I stopped.” I remember when Lindy West found the troll who had made a Twitter account pretending to be her dead father. And, essentially, his story was that he hated himself and her, and so he was an asshole, and now he was sorry, and he stopped.
So much emotional labor, so much pain. So much time. And then, in victory, if you can get it: I’m sorry. I was an asshole. I stopped.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:48 PM on July 29, 2018 [9 favorites]
So much emotional labor, so much pain. So much time. And then, in victory, if you can get it: I’m sorry. I was an asshole. I stopped.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:48 PM on July 29, 2018 [9 favorites]
Whether one side is wrong or right is immaterial, especially when both sides are suffering.
Both sides are not suffering the same. Nor for the same reason. You cannot create an equivalence between someone who stubs their toe and the person they beat to within an inch is their life as a result. One of them is suffering a lot more, and the other is directly responsible for that suffering. The victims are not culpable for the (frankly incomparably insignificant) suffering of their abusers.
posted by Dysk at 4:16 AM on July 30, 2018 [11 favorites]
Both sides are not suffering the same. Nor for the same reason. You cannot create an equivalence between someone who stubs their toe and the person they beat to within an inch is their life as a result. One of them is suffering a lot more, and the other is directly responsible for that suffering. The victims are not culpable for the (frankly incomparably insignificant) suffering of their abusers.
posted by Dysk at 4:16 AM on July 30, 2018 [11 favorites]
And like, when one "side" is responsible for the suffering of the other, the why is very much material.
posted by Dysk at 5:59 AM on July 30, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 5:59 AM on July 30, 2018 [6 favorites]
If you want to change people, they have to engage with you and vice versa.
So, interestingly enough, someone actually tried to do this, and published an article today about it: What Happened When I Tried Talking to Twitter Abusers
Now, before I post an excerpt, let me tl;dr it for you: Surprisingly, many of them realized that there was an actual human being willing to engage with them and show them compassion, and after coming to that realization began an earnest, heartfelt dialogue--
Actually, y'know what? It's not even worth pretending that's even remotely close to reality. Here's what actually happened:
So, interestingly enough, someone actually tried to do this, and published an article today about it: What Happened When I Tried Talking to Twitter Abusers
Now, before I post an excerpt, let me tl;dr it for you: Surprisingly, many of them realized that there was an actual human being willing to engage with them and show them compassion, and after coming to that realization began an earnest, heartfelt dialogue--
Actually, y'know what? It's not even worth pretending that's even remotely close to reality. Here's what actually happened:
The vast majority of my interactions were frustrating. Some didn’t reply at all, or disappeared instantly the moment I engaged them – blocking me, even though they were the ones who had attacked me initially.In the end, there was a grand total of one person that she felt she connected with:
With others, it was like trying to converse with a piercing alarm. Once they realized a live human being had seen their initial tweet, they unleashed a torrent of insults, in a sort of frenzied, rapid-fire slew of hate and misogyny. This wasn’t about conversation. This wasn’t about intelligent debate. This wasn’t even really about me. This was about unleashing all of the hate they’d accrued for women over the years.
I also learned – rather quickly, though not quickly enough – to only engage people in my mentions. I had started trying to talk to people who were harassing my friends or prominent women, but soon found that my engagement galvanized their hate against their initial target. The safer option was to talk to my own abusers, ensuring that I would be the recipient of such a reaction. (I’m a white, able-bodied, cis-gendered woman. There’s a lot of privilege that comes with that.)
Of all the conversations I had, exactly one left me feeling a modicum of hope. It was short lived. The individual I was talking to had been leaving insulting replies in Emma Gonzalez’s Twitter feed (this was before I realized I should probably only be engaging my own haters). Many of his comments included references to how ugly she was, and when I asked him about it, he seemed pretty embarrassed. He noted that she wasn’t actually ugly.Anyway, here's the takeaway from what should now be obvious about engaging with toxic assholes:
And that his personal attacks were not the best approach.
And while we disagree hugely on the gun control issue, I felt like our discussion made him realize that attacking a young woman who’d survived a mass shooting while at school was perhaps not conducive to his goals. I left our exchange feeling a little … optimistic?
Today, I checked his Twitter feed.
It’s a bunch of personal, vicious attacks about her appearance directed at her.
So, yeah.
There’s a lot of discussion about how we need to reach out and talk to people who disagree with us – how we need to extend an olive branch and find common ground – and that’s a lovely sentiment, but in order for that to work, the other party needs to be … well, not a raging asshole. Insisting that people continue to reach out to their abusers in hopes that they will change suggests that the abuse is somehow in the victim’s hands to control. This puts a ridiculously unfair onus on marginalized groups – in particular, women of color, who are the group most likely to be harassed online. (For more on this topic, read about how Ijeoma Oluo spent a day replying to the racists in her feed with MLK quotes – and after enduring hideous insults and threats, she finally got exactly one apology from a 14-year-old kid. People later pointed to the exercise as proof that victims of racism just need to try harder to get white people to like them. Which is some serious bullshit.)posted by zombieflanders at 4:09 PM on July 30, 2018 [10 favorites]
I spent days trying to talk to the people in my mentions who insulted and attacked me. I’d have been better off just remembering that when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first tweet.
« Older La Scarzuola | What is the Morally Appropriate Language in Which... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Going To Maine at 11:44 PM on July 28, 2018 [1 favorite]