Comedians thinking about jokes
September 6, 2018 1:52 PM Subscribe
The joke I most regret asks famous comedians (Cameron Esposito, Weird Al, Patton Oswalt) about the jokes they regret, which provides a fascinating and thoughtful look at how comedy is evolving. For something a little more traditionally funny, also check out the list of jokes that comedians wish they could steal, with lots of good YouTube videos and audio.
Weird Al:
There are a couple songs in the ’80s where I use the word “midget,” which in the ’80s was not that much of a slur. It was not a kind word, but it was not a slur. These days, I do not say that word. In fact, at one point on this tour, I sang the song that had that word in it and I stopped the whole band and just explained to the audience how language has evolved over time since I originally wrote the song — this whole diatribe about why I used the word then and I wouldn’t use it now. And then we resumed playing and ended the song. Language changes over time.
See, straight white dudes? Stopping doing the thing people are telling you is not o.k. won't make you die.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:52 PM on September 6, 2018 [155 favorites]
There are a couple songs in the ’80s where I use the word “midget,” which in the ’80s was not that much of a slur. It was not a kind word, but it was not a slur. These days, I do not say that word. In fact, at one point on this tour, I sang the song that had that word in it and I stopped the whole band and just explained to the audience how language has evolved over time since I originally wrote the song — this whole diatribe about why I used the word then and I wouldn’t use it now. And then we resumed playing and ended the song. Language changes over time.
See, straight white dudes? Stopping doing the thing people are telling you is not o.k. won't make you die.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:52 PM on September 6, 2018 [155 favorites]
The Shane Torres bit in the second link is really bugging me because I'm 99% sure he meant to roast Gordon Ramsey, not Anthony Bourdain.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:56 PM on September 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 2:56 PM on September 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
I think it says something about Weird Al's persona that I can completely believe that that's the worst thing he's ever done.
posted by phooky at 2:57 PM on September 6, 2018 [94 favorites]
posted by phooky at 2:57 PM on September 6, 2018 [94 favorites]
I love this article, great insights from a ton of great comedians and some new ones I want to check out.
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:59 PM on September 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:59 PM on September 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Weird Al is a genuinely good person and a consummate entertainer. This cannot be said enough.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 3:13 PM on September 6, 2018 [51 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 3:13 PM on September 6, 2018 [51 favorites]
Comics should have no regrets and no rules. Funny is the only metric. How far we've come from the golden age of the 80s. Like Eddie Murphy should have consulted a board of censors before he taped "Delirious".
posted by Modest House at 3:21 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Modest House at 3:21 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
Funny to whom?
posted by adamrice at 3:24 PM on September 6, 2018 [63 favorites]
posted by adamrice at 3:24 PM on September 6, 2018 [63 favorites]
Like Eddie Murphy should have consulted a board of censors before he taped "Delirious".
The fallacy of straw person is strong in this comment. Nobody's suggesting he should have.
I personally don't like having "faggot" screamed in my face. YMMV.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:27 PM on September 6, 2018 [61 favorites]
The fallacy of straw person is strong in this comment. Nobody's suggesting he should have.
I personally don't like having "faggot" screamed in my face. YMMV.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:27 PM on September 6, 2018 [61 favorites]
Comics should have no regrets and no rules. Funny is the only metric.
There are several specific examples in the article of comics realizing that they were lazily relying on careless, dehumanizing, unfunny-by-their-own-standards bits.
posted by infinitewindow at 3:28 PM on September 6, 2018 [64 favorites]
There are several specific examples in the article of comics realizing that they were lazily relying on careless, dehumanizing, unfunny-by-their-own-standards bits.
posted by infinitewindow at 3:28 PM on September 6, 2018 [64 favorites]
Although it can be funny: consider the source.
That's how comedy actually works.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:29 PM on September 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
That's how comedy actually works.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:29 PM on September 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Comics should have no regrets and no rules.
Shit, I have regrets as a viewer of comedy. I laughed my ass off at Eddie Murphy's AIDS jokes and Andrew Dice Clay's... whatever the fuck that was, back in the 1980s and I cringe hearing that stuff now. Things change. People should change. Learning and growing is good for everyone.
Weird Al is a genuinely good person and a consummate entertainer. This cannot be said enough.
On his last album (from just a couple years ago) he used the word spastic in a song and someone called him out on it and he apologized over Twitter. He just seems like such a great dude all around.
posted by bondcliff at 3:36 PM on September 6, 2018 [69 favorites]
Shit, I have regrets as a viewer of comedy. I laughed my ass off at Eddie Murphy's AIDS jokes and Andrew Dice Clay's... whatever the fuck that was, back in the 1980s and I cringe hearing that stuff now. Things change. People should change. Learning and growing is good for everyone.
Weird Al is a genuinely good person and a consummate entertainer. This cannot be said enough.
On his last album (from just a couple years ago) he used the word spastic in a song and someone called him out on it and he apologized over Twitter. He just seems like such a great dude all around.
posted by bondcliff at 3:36 PM on September 6, 2018 [69 favorites]
Comics should have no regrets and no rules. Funny is the only metric. How far we've come from the golden age of the 80s.
Here's what that famously politically correct hack Richard Pryor had to say on the topic in 1982:
Here's what that famously politically correct hack Richard Pryor had to say on the topic in 1982:
[describing his recent trip to Africa]posted by Atom Eyes at 3:43 PM on September 6, 2018 [181 favorites]
“There’s nothing like going and seeing nothing but black. Black people. I mean from the wino to the president, it’s black people…
One thing I got out of it was magic. I’d like to share it with you. I was leaving, and I was sitting in the hotel and a voice said to me, it said, ‘Look around, what do you see?’ And I said, ‘I see all colors of people doing everything, you know.’ And the voice said, ‘Do you see any niggers?’ And I said, ‘No.’ And it said, ‘You know why? Because there aren’t any.’ And it hit me like a shot...
I was sitting there, I said, ‘Yeah, I been here three weeks and I haven’t even said it. I haven’t even thought it.’ And it made me think, Oh my God, I’ve been wrong. I’ve been wrong...
I ain’t never going to call another black man a nigger. You know, because we never was no niggers. That’s a word that’s used to describe our own wretchedness. And we perpetuate it now. Because it’s dead. That word is dead. [We’re] men and women...
And I don’t want them hip white people coming up to me, calling me no nigger or telling me nigger jokes. I don’t like it. I’m just telling you, it’s uncomfortable to me. I don’t like it when black people say it to me. So I love you all, and you can take that with you."
From Anna Drezen:
I wish I could go back in time and heckle myself with “Your body is great just as it is, but it’s also just going to keep getting worse until you die! Shut up!”
Love that.
posted by amanda at 3:46 PM on September 6, 2018 [19 favorites]
I wish I could go back in time and heckle myself with “Your body is great just as it is, but it’s also just going to keep getting worse until you die! Shut up!”
Love that.
posted by amanda at 3:46 PM on September 6, 2018 [19 favorites]
I laughed my ass off at Eddie Murphy's AIDS jokes and Andrew Dice Clay's... whatever the fuck that was, back in the 1980s and I cringe hearing that stuff now.
No kidding. I'm gay and I thought Delirious was the funniest thing ever when I was around 12 or 13 (that's how old I was when it started floating around on VHS).
Marlon Riggs had a very cogent critique of it in Tongues Untied.
Comedy stops being funny when people get curb-stomped for the kind of hatred you whip up against them as part of a standup act.
So maybe "not killing people" is a metric for funny.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:49 PM on September 6, 2018 [21 favorites]
No kidding. I'm gay and I thought Delirious was the funniest thing ever when I was around 12 or 13 (that's how old I was when it started floating around on VHS).
Marlon Riggs had a very cogent critique of it in Tongues Untied.
Comedy stops being funny when people get curb-stomped for the kind of hatred you whip up against them as part of a standup act.
So maybe "not killing people" is a metric for funny.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:49 PM on September 6, 2018 [21 favorites]
Funny is the only metric
Uh huh. So I'm entitled to do or say anything I want as long as I (or someone else?) claims it's sufficiently funny.
posted by PMdixon at 4:10 PM on September 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
Uh huh. So I'm entitled to do or say anything I want as long as I (or someone else?) claims it's sufficiently funny.
posted by PMdixon at 4:10 PM on September 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
I’m trying right now to teach my 3 year old and 6 year old that “not killing people” is a key element of comedy.
posted by Anne Neville at 4:38 PM on September 6, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by Anne Neville at 4:38 PM on September 6, 2018 [10 favorites]
Paul Scheer: "I'm glad I was able to fail in the dark."
Scheer is likely one of the last lucky few to be able to do so thanks to ubiquitous social media and recording technology.
Have you been to your local poorly attended comedy open mic? At this very moment, there are hundreds of people failing HARD in the dark. Comics with notoriety can't really fail in the dark, but there are literally THOUSANDS of unknown comedians who still have that luxury. Some unknown comedians today will be known in a few years, at which point it'll change for them, but for the time being they're failing beautifully and learning.
posted by Philipschall at 4:41 PM on September 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
Scheer is likely one of the last lucky few to be able to do so thanks to ubiquitous social media and recording technology.
Have you been to your local poorly attended comedy open mic? At this very moment, there are hundreds of people failing HARD in the dark. Comics with notoriety can't really fail in the dark, but there are literally THOUSANDS of unknown comedians who still have that luxury. Some unknown comedians today will be known in a few years, at which point it'll change for them, but for the time being they're failing beautifully and learning.
posted by Philipschall at 4:41 PM on September 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
Like Eddie Murphy should have consulted a board of censors before he taped "Delirious"
Why a censor? Why not A GAY PERSON. Why do people always think it's a matter of official censorship and not just checking with the people around you?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 4:44 PM on September 6, 2018 [68 favorites]
Why a censor? Why not A GAY PERSON. Why do people always think it's a matter of official censorship and not just checking with the people around you?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 4:44 PM on September 6, 2018 [68 favorites]
Golden age of the 80s? Oh, please.
We live in an era in which it's easier than ever before for comics to connect with audiences, and for fans follow the careers of favorite artists, and learn about newcomers to the scene.
And with paradigm-shattering work by folks like Tig Notaro, Guy Branum, Mo'Nique, Maria Bamford, Jordan Peele, Hannah Gadsby, Reggie Watts, and so many others available at the touch of a button -- I mean, my lord, what more could you want?
It's worth noting that a lot of today's most brilliant comedic ass-kickers come from backgrounds that *were* the punchlines, back in the eighties. I'm not saying that the decade didn't produce some extraordinary comedy, because clearly it did. But for every golden, miraculous Emo Philips there were about a hundred gel-haired hacks who pushed up their blazer sleeves and got paid to recycle the same tired-ass rape jokes night after night after exhausting, pointless night.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 5:07 PM on September 6, 2018 [53 favorites]
We live in an era in which it's easier than ever before for comics to connect with audiences, and for fans follow the careers of favorite artists, and learn about newcomers to the scene.
And with paradigm-shattering work by folks like Tig Notaro, Guy Branum, Mo'Nique, Maria Bamford, Jordan Peele, Hannah Gadsby, Reggie Watts, and so many others available at the touch of a button -- I mean, my lord, what more could you want?
It's worth noting that a lot of today's most brilliant comedic ass-kickers come from backgrounds that *were* the punchlines, back in the eighties. I'm not saying that the decade didn't produce some extraordinary comedy, because clearly it did. But for every golden, miraculous Emo Philips there were about a hundred gel-haired hacks who pushed up their blazer sleeves and got paid to recycle the same tired-ass rape jokes night after night after exhausting, pointless night.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 5:07 PM on September 6, 2018 [53 favorites]
Comics should have no regrets and no rules. Funny is the only metric.
...I feel like maybe you didn't read the article before commenting.
posted by bq at 5:39 PM on September 6, 2018 [36 favorites]
...I feel like maybe you didn't read the article before commenting.
posted by bq at 5:39 PM on September 6, 2018 [36 favorites]
I feel like the mythology of comedy basically always holds that comedy, at its most transcendent, reveals uncomfortable truths in the guise of humor. Taking that as granted, if the nominally uncomfortable truth in question is something like "actually, [Group X] really is [stereotypical and misguided pejorative applied to that group that is widely believed by a politically-significant and morally-bankrupt subset of the population]," then the comedian is broken and so are the people that hold that up as an example of hard-hitting humor. The fact that the great comedians of today are so much funnier and more incisive than the half-assed, self-styled transgressors of previous eras (or just contemporary asshole jabronis like Bill Burr) tells me that we're actually getting closer to a comedic practice that fulfills that transcendent purpose instead of just people making careers out of cheap shots.
posted by invitapriore at 6:13 PM on September 6, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by invitapriore at 6:13 PM on September 6, 2018 [12 favorites]
The "jokes I regret" article is excellent and raw and lovely, but you guys I am still laughing about one of the bits linked in the second article, (ostensibly) about how the 50 US states got their abbreviations.
posted by duffell at 6:14 PM on September 6, 2018 [34 favorites]
posted by duffell at 6:14 PM on September 6, 2018 [34 favorites]
Comedy in the 2020s has a good shot at being funnier because comics will focus on the humor and won't even prepare material relying on brash, sophomoric, insulting shock.
Until the 2030s, when they'll be shocked that they casually used such outdated and insensitive language.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:53 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
Until the 2030s, when they'll be shocked that they casually used such outdated and insensitive language.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:53 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
I found it interesting that one word that kept coming up in essay after essay was "lazy". Those jokes that they regret, they realize that they were lazy, they didn't try to develop anything original or specific, they went for the generalization, the stereotype, the laughable mental image of someone they triggered in someone's mind as part of "those".
I think I like the idea that those kinds of jokes are lazy, and they need to be worked out and developed and made into something actually funny and not relying on negative social stereotypes. I also love how hard truly good standup artists work to achieve their set. I've listened to enough WTF podcast to have an idea of what setting out on that journey must be like. Tempted/not tempted.
posted by hippybear at 7:05 PM on September 6, 2018 [15 favorites]
I think I like the idea that those kinds of jokes are lazy, and they need to be worked out and developed and made into something actually funny and not relying on negative social stereotypes. I also love how hard truly good standup artists work to achieve their set. I've listened to enough WTF podcast to have an idea of what setting out on that journey must be like. Tempted/not tempted.
posted by hippybear at 7:05 PM on September 6, 2018 [15 favorites]
It struck me that Kyle Kinane doesn't seem to regret that his rape joke may have caused people pain. His position seems to be "we can't say that stuff anymore" without seeming to understand or care why. Meanwhile, Emily Heller's regret was all about a concern that her comedy might hurt someone.
I am familiar with both of their work, and I LOVE Emily Heller (I have checked multiple times hoping she'll tour all the way to me, with no luck) and skip Kyle Kinane because I find him boring. Hm.
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:01 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
I am familiar with both of their work, and I LOVE Emily Heller (I have checked multiple times hoping she'll tour all the way to me, with no luck) and skip Kyle Kinane because I find him boring. Hm.
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:01 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
That Eddie Murphy standup was recommended to me when I was a teenager in the aughts. (I was, and remain, a huge fan of Trading Places, Coming to America, and the Eddie Murphy clips that make it onto SNL compilations). I don't think of the (older) person who tipped it to me as particularly boorish or homophobic, so I was surprised by how awful it was. The material was offensive, but I wasn't especially offended...I just couldn't believe how not funny it was.
The Weird Al story reminds me of an interview with Randy Newman...well, several interviews, because he's been asked about it a lot. He used the n-word in Rednecks (a satirical song intended to target white people). Now, his take is this: "You have to have a really, really good reason – and it may not be a good enough reason – to use that word. I’ve played it, but it has a whole boring preamble that I am required, and want, to give. You have to justify somehow the fact that that word is in there."
In other interviews, I've heard him say he just doesn't play it anymore. He doesn't sit around insisting that we're all too dumb to understand that he wasn't attacking black people and we're too politically correct to enjoy things blah blah blah. He tacitly acknowledges that times have changed and performing that song in 2018 wouldn't be true to the motives he had for writing it in 1974. I've always really liked that about Randy Newman.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:07 PM on September 6, 2018 [27 favorites]
The Weird Al story reminds me of an interview with Randy Newman...well, several interviews, because he's been asked about it a lot. He used the n-word in Rednecks (a satirical song intended to target white people). Now, his take is this: "You have to have a really, really good reason – and it may not be a good enough reason – to use that word. I’ve played it, but it has a whole boring preamble that I am required, and want, to give. You have to justify somehow the fact that that word is in there."
In other interviews, I've heard him say he just doesn't play it anymore. He doesn't sit around insisting that we're all too dumb to understand that he wasn't attacking black people and we're too politically correct to enjoy things blah blah blah. He tacitly acknowledges that times have changed and performing that song in 2018 wouldn't be true to the motives he had for writing it in 1974. I've always really liked that about Randy Newman.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:07 PM on September 6, 2018 [27 favorites]
(Lester Maddox died over a decade ago, so Rednecks has lost some of its satirical sting. It's unfortunately still got some bite in Trump Year Two, unfortunately.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:59 PM on September 6, 2018
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:59 PM on September 6, 2018
Duffell's link above to Gary Gulman's piece on how the 50 states got their abbreviations is one to follow. It's a brilliant, subtle, humble bit that's hilarious.
posted by fatbird at 9:55 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by fatbird at 9:55 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
His position seems to be "we can't say that stuff anymore" without seeming to understand or care why.
More than that, he's wrong. You absolutely can say that stuff today. You can.
But more than that, I hate with a burning passion the phrase "You can't say stuff like XYZ." For a couple of reasons. First of all, YES YOU CAN. Oh, what you want when you complain about such a thing is to be able to say things without being judged. But even in stating that you are sort of explicitly judging people for judging you. Your position is that it's bad to judge people for saying such things, and you are judging people who say that the things you say are awful. It's creating victimhood and pretending there is censorship when there IS NO censorship.
Oh, it's so very frustrating.
The thing is, there are actual things you cannot say; like critiquing the ruler of Bahrain, Lebanon, Azerbaijan, Venezuela, Poland, Turkey, Iran, etc, etc (citation). Or advocating for LGBTQ rights in Russia, or being an activist in China, or, or, or...
In the US, you can be a literal Nazi, and advocate for all sorts of terrible Nazi shit. Now you can't do that in my living room, or perhaps Facebook, but you can do it. Don't whine about your lack of freedom of speech when your only real complaint is that I'm using my freedom of speech to call you an asshole (or kick you out of my living room or web platform).
(sorry, I realized I had a bit of an angry rant on this issue).
posted by el io at 10:12 PM on September 6, 2018 [102 favorites]
More than that, he's wrong. You absolutely can say that stuff today. You can.
But more than that, I hate with a burning passion the phrase "You can't say stuff like XYZ." For a couple of reasons. First of all, YES YOU CAN. Oh, what you want when you complain about such a thing is to be able to say things without being judged. But even in stating that you are sort of explicitly judging people for judging you. Your position is that it's bad to judge people for saying such things, and you are judging people who say that the things you say are awful. It's creating victimhood and pretending there is censorship when there IS NO censorship.
Oh, it's so very frustrating.
The thing is, there are actual things you cannot say; like critiquing the ruler of Bahrain, Lebanon, Azerbaijan, Venezuela, Poland, Turkey, Iran, etc, etc (citation). Or advocating for LGBTQ rights in Russia, or being an activist in China, or, or, or...
In the US, you can be a literal Nazi, and advocate for all sorts of terrible Nazi shit. Now you can't do that in my living room, or perhaps Facebook, but you can do it. Don't whine about your lack of freedom of speech when your only real complaint is that I'm using my freedom of speech to call you an asshole (or kick you out of my living room or web platform).
(sorry, I realized I had a bit of an angry rant on this issue).
posted by el io at 10:12 PM on September 6, 2018 [102 favorites]
I was not expecting as much excusing as was present in the article, frankly. I think I found three comedians who seemed to genuinely regret material, not just muse that the world has moved on and maybe they have, too.
posted by maxwelton at 10:48 PM on September 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 10:48 PM on September 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
duffel, that's at least the second time I've watched that Gary Gulman piece but the contractor/no sorry he was a conTRACTor bit got me again.
posted by yhbc at 2:13 AM on September 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 2:13 AM on September 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
I recently watched "Delirious" again too, a film I remembered as being peak hilarity when I was a tot. The Suck Fairy's goon squad has clearly paid a visit since then.
posted by chavenet at 3:19 AM on September 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 3:19 AM on September 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
One of my favourite jokes about comedy material not aging well is the scene in Brooklyn Nine-Nine where Jake references Ace Ventura and then clarifies: “Classic film, one of my childhood favorites, and it only gets overtly transphobic at the very end.”
posted by tobascodagama at 5:28 AM on September 7, 2018 [31 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 5:28 AM on September 7, 2018 [31 favorites]
duffel, that's at least the second time I've watched that Gary Gulman piece but the contractor/no sorry he was a conTRACTor bit got me again.
I watched it a couple of times when it was posted here a few months ago, and I remembered the "contractor" bit, but when I watched it just now I lost it all over again at "sky comma".
posted by Daily Alice at 5:30 AM on September 7, 2018 [7 favorites]
I watched it a couple of times when it was posted here a few months ago, and I remembered the "contractor" bit, but when I watched it just now I lost it all over again at "sky comma".
posted by Daily Alice at 5:30 AM on September 7, 2018 [7 favorites]
Why a censor? Why not A GAY PERSON. Why do people always think it's a matter of official censorship and not just checking with the people around you?
One of the extremely wack pieces of social propaganda around right now is the idea that basic forms of respect to people who have been socially mistreated is somehow a form of repression or censorship.
Which really underscores the darker idea that the ability to oppress is something that people are entitled to.
posted by entropone at 6:52 AM on September 7, 2018 [29 favorites]
One of the extremely wack pieces of social propaganda around right now is the idea that basic forms of respect to people who have been socially mistreated is somehow a form of repression or censorship.
Which really underscores the darker idea that the ability to oppress is something that people are entitled to.
posted by entropone at 6:52 AM on September 7, 2018 [29 favorites]
The "jokes I regret" article is excellent and raw and lovely, but you guys I am still laughing about one of the bits linked in the second article, (ostensibly) about how the 50 US states got their abbreviations.
I loved that one, too. I saw it via another link a couple of days ago, and watched it again here. I'm going to remember it so I can post it whenever somebody here at Metafilter invokes the simplistic idea that comedy has to either punch up or punch down—it can be hilarious without punching anybody.
Of course, that's going to be a style of comedy that isn't necessarily commenting on society in any specific way, and some comedians do want to do that. But I'm not generally a fan of stand-up comedy, and the kind that works best for me as an audience member is the kind that draws on shared experience, or, as in this one (or the "ordering off the menu what you get at the buffet" one), spins out a "what if..." idea. But there are certainly limitations to that kind of humor.
That "jokes I'd like to steal" article was interesting. I think it shows the extent to which I am not stand-up's ideal audience member that fewer than half of the linked bits were funny to me. Or is that about average? I wonder what other people's experiences are like.
posted by Orlop at 7:00 AM on September 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
I loved that one, too. I saw it via another link a couple of days ago, and watched it again here. I'm going to remember it so I can post it whenever somebody here at Metafilter invokes the simplistic idea that comedy has to either punch up or punch down—it can be hilarious without punching anybody.
Of course, that's going to be a style of comedy that isn't necessarily commenting on society in any specific way, and some comedians do want to do that. But I'm not generally a fan of stand-up comedy, and the kind that works best for me as an audience member is the kind that draws on shared experience, or, as in this one (or the "ordering off the menu what you get at the buffet" one), spins out a "what if..." idea. But there are certainly limitations to that kind of humor.
That "jokes I'd like to steal" article was interesting. I think it shows the extent to which I am not stand-up's ideal audience member that fewer than half of the linked bits were funny to me. Or is that about average? I wonder what other people's experiences are like.
posted by Orlop at 7:00 AM on September 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
but when I watched it just now I lost it all over again at "sky comma".
I'd get "I can fix that with a sky comma" on a t-shirt any day.
posted by Orlop at 7:01 AM on September 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
I'd get "I can fix that with a sky comma" on a t-shirt any day.
posted by Orlop at 7:01 AM on September 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
Comics should have no regrets and no rules.
You're thinking of Outback Steakhouse.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:15 AM on September 7, 2018 [23 favorites]
You're thinking of Outback Steakhouse.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:15 AM on September 7, 2018 [23 favorites]
I always find it funny when comedians talk about how people are so "quick to get offended" now, when honestly the real offense taken is that of the comedian at not having their lazy joke laughed at.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 8:24 AM on September 7, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Dressed to Kill at 8:24 AM on September 7, 2018 [6 favorites]
Comics should have no regrets and no rules. Funny is the only metric.
The article is a long list of, you know, actual professional comedians arguing for why they think this is not true. I'm going to go ahead and value their opinion on the matter.
posted by ga$money at 8:59 AM on September 7, 2018 [10 favorites]
The article is a long list of, you know, actual professional comedians arguing for why they think this is not true. I'm going to go ahead and value their opinion on the matter.
posted by ga$money at 8:59 AM on September 7, 2018 [10 favorites]
I think it says something about Weird Al's persona that I can completely believe that that's the worst thing he's ever done.
Yeah, the first thing that I thought of when I saw his name in the article was Albuquerque (Genius lyrics link), which I listened to recently for the first time in a decade plus, and...it has not aged well and I wonder why I ever found it funny in the first place. (That the song is intended to be "annoying" is not an excuse or even really an explanation.) But I genuinely believe that Weird Al is being thoughtful about this stuff and working on doing better. And he doesn't play Albuquerque live anymore, it sounds like.
posted by capricorn at 9:31 AM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the first thing that I thought of when I saw his name in the article was Albuquerque (Genius lyrics link), which I listened to recently for the first time in a decade plus, and...it has not aged well and I wonder why I ever found it funny in the first place. (That the song is intended to be "annoying" is not an excuse or even really an explanation.) But I genuinely believe that Weird Al is being thoughtful about this stuff and working on doing better. And he doesn't play Albuquerque live anymore, it sounds like.
posted by capricorn at 9:31 AM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Nice reminder that success is paved with failure after failure. But not everyone recognizes the failures for what they are.
posted by tommasz at 9:52 AM on September 7, 2018
posted by tommasz at 9:52 AM on September 7, 2018
Thank you for this post, it has prevented me from arguing with a friend's 'i'm a liberal, but liberals go too far when they don't like [COMEDIAN] because comedy should be OFFENSIVE' post.
And like, it's not that their shit is offensive, but that they're boring, lazy, and tedious. If you're gonna drop a 'women be shopping' joke, it better melt my fucking brain off with its genius or you need to go. The comedian didn't make me laugh; therefore, I do not like the comedian. No one needs to defend the boring comedian by casting them as too edgy and offensive and it's only that my censorious liberal brains cannot handle their epic truth bombs or whatever the fuck.
People get so fucking uptight about their favorite comics, probably because our favorite comedians can reflect, amplify, and refine our own thoughts, but damn. If your fave comic doesn't have a joke he regrets, he is probably boring as all hell.
Thanks to Uncle Barbecue (of the Dum-Dum stories) for this (FTA):
And like, it's not that their shit is offensive, but that they're boring, lazy, and tedious. If you're gonna drop a 'women be shopping' joke, it better melt my fucking brain off with its genius or you need to go. The comedian didn't make me laugh; therefore, I do not like the comedian. No one needs to defend the boring comedian by casting them as too edgy and offensive and it's only that my censorious liberal brains cannot handle their epic truth bombs or whatever the fuck.
People get so fucking uptight about their favorite comics, probably because our favorite comedians can reflect, amplify, and refine our own thoughts, but damn. If your fave comic doesn't have a joke he regrets, he is probably boring as all hell.
Thanks to Uncle Barbecue (of the Dum-Dum stories) for this (FTA):
I’m not trying to pull a logical switcheroo on an audience: “Well, um, you see here, your offense is incorrect because technically the joke is about this instead of what I led you to believe.” I don’t believe in that whole “You might not think I’m funny, but it’s only because my comedy is intellectually superior” bullshit.posted by palindromic at 10:04 AM on September 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
I do love Weird Al, and I have no problem with his response. I was a little surprised, however, that he didn't mention "Fat", which would be received very differently today.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:48 AM on September 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:48 AM on September 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
Orlop: "I'd get "I can fix that with a sky comma" on a t-shirt any day."
you mean, on a t'shirt
posted by chavenet at 11:33 AM on September 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
you mean, on a t'shirt
posted by chavenet at 11:33 AM on September 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
And he doesn't play Albuquerque live anymore, it sounds like.
Yes he does and it's amazing.
I saw Al on his last tour, doing his original songs, and the only issue I had was he did a song about Santa going crazy and shooting up a place and this was only a few days after a mass shooting. I don't remember which one because I live in a country where when you say 'mass shooting' you have to be specific about which one.
It was an older song. I don't think he'd write that song today, and I was surprised he performed it.
posted by bondcliff at 11:39 AM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yes he does and it's amazing.
I saw Al on his last tour, doing his original songs, and the only issue I had was he did a song about Santa going crazy and shooting up a place and this was only a few days after a mass shooting. I don't remember which one because I live in a country where when you say 'mass shooting' you have to be specific about which one.
It was an older song. I don't think he'd write that song today, and I was surprised he performed it.
posted by bondcliff at 11:39 AM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
[Albuquerque] has not aged well and I wonder why I ever found it funny in the first place. (That the song is intended to be "annoying" is not an excuse or even really an explanation.)
It's not so much "This song is intended to be annoying" as "This song is intended to be an annoying parody of rambly folk songs like 'Alice's Restaurant'." This may also not be an excuse or explanation, but it makes enough sense to me personally to justify its weirdness. Also it supposedly came up a lot on his "Ridiculously Self-Indulgent, Ill-Advised Vanity Tour" that he recently went on, but it's true he doesn't routinely sing it any more.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 11:52 AM on September 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
It's not so much "This song is intended to be annoying" as "This song is intended to be an annoying parody of rambly folk songs like 'Alice's Restaurant'." This may also not be an excuse or explanation, but it makes enough sense to me personally to justify its weirdness. Also it supposedly came up a lot on his "Ridiculously Self-Indulgent, Ill-Advised Vanity Tour" that he recently went on, but it's true he doesn't routinely sing it any more.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 11:52 AM on September 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
It's not so much "This song is intended to be annoying" as "This song is intended to be an annoying parody of rambly folk songs like 'Alice's Restaurant'."
I don't know about capricorn, but the part I find annoying about it is less the format (which he did again more recently in "Trapped in the Drive-Thru") than the jokes about the "big fat hermaphrodite" and the smelly Albanian women.
posted by Etrigan at 12:10 PM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
I don't know about capricorn, but the part I find annoying about it is less the format (which he did again more recently in "Trapped in the Drive-Thru") than the jokes about the "big fat hermaphrodite" and the smelly Albanian women.
posted by Etrigan at 12:10 PM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
The bits about the "two large Albanian women" and the "big fat hermaphrodite" in "Albuquerque" have definitely not aged well. The song as a whole also suffers from the same problems as a lot of other old Weird Al material, in that the style it was parodying isn't really a thing any more.
I still love how meta the verse with the "amusing anecdote" is, though, especially in light of literally the exact conversation we're having right now:
I still love how meta the verse with the "amusing anecdote" is, though, especially in light of literally the exact conversation we're having right now:
Say, that reminds me of another amusing anecdoteposted by tobascodagama at 12:14 PM on September 7, 2018 [8 favorites]
This guy comes up to me on the street and says he hasn't had a bite in three days
Well, I knew what he meant
But just to be funny, I took a big bite out of his jugular vein
And he's yellin' and screamin' and bleeding all over
And I'm like, "Hey, come on, don'tcha get it?"
But he just keeps rolling around on the sidewalk, bleeding, and screaming
[screaming sounds]
You know, just completely missing the irony of the whole situation
Man, some people just can't take a joke, you know?
It really made me think about this throwaway joke I had, and more so than anything else I realized, “That’s barely a joke.” It was very first-thought, no real joke-writing there. It was such a minor moment but it drove me nuts for days. I tried a few different things, and finally, now the joke is, “He gave head like he had a third row of teeth,” which gets a much bigger and consistent laugh now, and it’s just a much more evocative, comedic image than someone with adult braces.
If a joke offends somebody, it's probably because you're touching a sore spot, you're saying something they've heard before and it's very likely not a very original or creative joke.
So unless your response is, "Of course, that's the point! I'm trying to offend those jerks who don't tip, they deserve to be offended!" then it's probably a sign that your joke is too lazy.
posted by straight at 12:20 PM on September 7, 2018 [7 favorites]
If a joke offends somebody, it's probably because you're touching a sore spot, you're saying something they've heard before and it's very likely not a very original or creative joke.
So unless your response is, "Of course, that's the point! I'm trying to offend those jerks who don't tip, they deserve to be offended!" then it's probably a sign that your joke is too lazy.
posted by straight at 12:20 PM on September 7, 2018 [7 favorites]
If the Gulman bit is blocked in your country, this link might work for you.
posted by suetanvil at 1:11 PM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by suetanvil at 1:11 PM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Etrigan: "I don't know about capricorn, but the part I find annoying about it is less the format (which he did again more recently in "Trapped in the Drive-Thru") than the jokes about the "big fat hermaphrodite" and the smelly Albanian women."
Yeah, that's what I was going for. The child abuse jokes are also not funny to me anymore, if they ever were.
posted by capricorn at 6:04 PM on September 9, 2018
Yeah, that's what I was going for. The child abuse jokes are also not funny to me anymore, if they ever were.
posted by capricorn at 6:04 PM on September 9, 2018
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Paul Scheer: "I'm glad I was able to fail in the dark."
Scheer is likely one of the last lucky few to be able to do so thanks to ubiquitous social media and recording technology. Everyone, from aspiring comics to hobby chess players, should have the chance to fail in the dark before bringing their polished act into the metaphorical spotlight.
posted by infinitewindow at 2:14 PM on September 6, 2018 [9 favorites]