firewood in the fuel tank
July 3, 2019 5:31 PM Subscribe
Wood gas vehicles are cars that run on trees.
Drive on Wood is the online community for wood gas vehicles if you want to build your own.
Drive on Wood is the online community for wood gas vehicles if you want to build your own.
Having not probed the entirety of Drive on Wood yet, I wonder if anybody has done research into pellet fuel, AKA compressed sawdust? As I recall, one of the inefficiencies in a lot of wood burning was the high moisture content (as high as 20% is considered good for some woods), whereas the pellets have something like 2% humidity.
You could also fit a much greater quantity of fuel on board, since the individual pellets are so small as to act more like a liquid than a big chunky solid.
Into the archives!
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 5:55 PM on July 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
You could also fit a much greater quantity of fuel on board, since the individual pellets are so small as to act more like a liquid than a big chunky solid.
Into the archives!
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 5:55 PM on July 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
I can find my source, but as a syngas lurker deforestation was a problem in WW1 because of this.
posted by The Power Nap at 5:57 PM on July 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by The Power Nap at 5:57 PM on July 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
aha, looks like it's not the first time people have thought of it.
Looks like the pellets work well with minimal modifications to the basic design, although you have to fully finish combustion or else the sawdust absorbs all leftover moisture in the system and gunks up your hopper.
Interestingly, their anecdotal data suggests that the combustion is efficient enough that you can use softwoods without worrying about tar buildup (this is the case with commercial pellet stoves for heating in my area, which use mostly compressed douglas fir)
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 6:01 PM on July 3, 2019
Looks like the pellets work well with minimal modifications to the basic design, although you have to fully finish combustion or else the sawdust absorbs all leftover moisture in the system and gunks up your hopper.
Interestingly, their anecdotal data suggests that the combustion is efficient enough that you can use softwoods without worrying about tar buildup (this is the case with commercial pellet stoves for heating in my area, which use mostly compressed douglas fir)
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 6:01 PM on July 3, 2019
That reminds me of Season 1 of The Colony (a US "post apocalypse" reality-tv series) - with no gasoline but with tools and junk the group managed to build a gasification system from one person's vague memory of the basic principles, and successfully got their vehicle running with it. There are the usual reality-tv caveats that we have no idea how much secret rigging happened behind the scenes, but it was still pretty nice.
(For another show that is more purely focused on the science/making-from-first-principles rather than The Colony's emphasis on reality-tv interpersonal-drama, check out the BBC's Rough Science.)
posted by Cusp at 6:08 PM on July 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
(For another show that is more purely focused on the science/making-from-first-principles rather than The Colony's emphasis on reality-tv interpersonal-drama, check out the BBC's Rough Science.)
posted by Cusp at 6:08 PM on July 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
I just finished reading John Varley's Slow Apocalypse, and wood-burning vehicles were certainly a thing there.
(I can't recommend the book if you don't normally like the sort of disaster story where bad stuff just keeps relentlessly happening and people are mostly terrible. Also, don't believe the back cover blurb about the protagonist being a "regular guy." He's Hollywood rich, also privileged with advance information about the disaster, and thinks driving an Escalade but "thinking about getting a Prius" made him a friend of the environment.)
posted by Foosnark at 6:20 PM on July 3, 2019 [4 favorites]
(I can't recommend the book if you don't normally like the sort of disaster story where bad stuff just keeps relentlessly happening and people are mostly terrible. Also, don't believe the back cover blurb about the protagonist being a "regular guy." He's Hollywood rich, also privileged with advance information about the disaster, and thinks driving an Escalade but "thinking about getting a Prius" made him a friend of the environment.)
posted by Foosnark at 6:20 PM on July 3, 2019 [4 favorites]
Deforestation not just for running vehicles, comrade Power Nap, although I'm sure that a lot of the "home front" all over the European theater was munched up from that.
Turns out that every damn thing in the war ran off wood.
The second war to end all wars wasn't much better -- imagine woodpiles the size of apartment buildings, just for winter heat.
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 6:22 PM on July 3, 2019 [4 favorites]
Turns out that every damn thing in the war ran off wood.
The second war to end all wars wasn't much better -- imagine woodpiles the size of apartment buildings, just for winter heat.
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 6:22 PM on July 3, 2019 [4 favorites]
If we’re going full WW1-era woodpunk I’m going to need to see some wood-powered mecha.
posted by dephlogisticated at 7:04 PM on July 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by dephlogisticated at 7:04 PM on July 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
Not mentioned in the article is that burning wood is hugely problematic because of the micro particles it puts out.
posted by smoke at 7:49 PM on July 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by smoke at 7:49 PM on July 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
I don't think these burn wood. They gasify it and burn the gas.
Oblig: eponysterical!
posted by pompomtom at 7:51 PM on July 3, 2019 [2 favorites]
Oblig: eponysterical!
posted by pompomtom at 7:51 PM on July 3, 2019 [2 favorites]
So this punk would be classified under what medievalpunk? forrestpunk? woodpunk?
posted by Omon Ra at 8:04 PM on July 3, 2019
posted by Omon Ra at 8:04 PM on July 3, 2019
That time Geena Davis called in to Car Talk about this subject.
posted by BrotherCaine at 8:55 PM on July 3, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by BrotherCaine at 8:55 PM on July 3, 2019 [2 favorites]
This is one of those things that, when a couple of hippies do it, it's cute.
But when everyone does it, it's a species-ending catastrophe and we're already in the middle of one of those, so...
posted by klanawa at 9:51 PM on July 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
But when everyone does it, it's a species-ending catastrophe and we're already in the middle of one of those, so...
posted by klanawa at 9:51 PM on July 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
But nooooooo, all that carbon that those trees worked so hard to capture....!
Build with wood, use wood, but don't burn it
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 6:26 AM on July 4, 2019
Build with wood, use wood, but don't burn it
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 6:26 AM on July 4, 2019
A friend of mine has turned what was a experiment at a art space into a full on business.
It is not set up with the idea of cutting down trees and burning them, but for portable power plants for consuming wood waste.
Farms can be powered on almond or wallet shells from the harvest and chipped wood from dead branches and aged out trees.
If you dump the coals before totally consuming the carbon you can till the charcoal into the soil for long term carbon fixing and soil amendment.
posted by boilermonster at 9:19 AM on July 4, 2019
It is not set up with the idea of cutting down trees and burning them, but for portable power plants for consuming wood waste.
Farms can be powered on almond or wallet shells from the harvest and chipped wood from dead branches and aged out trees.
If you dump the coals before totally consuming the carbon you can till the charcoal into the soil for long term carbon fixing and soil amendment.
posted by boilermonster at 9:19 AM on July 4, 2019
A car that runs mainly on carbon monoxide? Noxious smoke during the obligatory warm-up time? Stopping to hand-feed wood chips into a giant oven thing every 30 miles or so? More weight, much less power, no trunk space? An estimated 5 miles per gallon of wood? Multiple opportunities to get severely burned if the system fails in any way (or even if it doesn't)? Where do I sign up!
[This is fascinating though! I had no idea these things used to be that common...]
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 9:30 AM on July 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
[This is fascinating though! I had no idea these things used to be that common...]
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 9:30 AM on July 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
wood: the og solar battery.
posted by danjo at 10:00 AM on July 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by danjo at 10:00 AM on July 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
I see hipsters are taking up on North Korea tech now, eh?
posted by symbioid at 4:08 PM on July 4, 2019
posted by symbioid at 4:08 PM on July 4, 2019
After a seminar on biofuel energy balances by Tad Patzek I remember asking where a donkey would go on their efficiency curves, or a mule, counting the factory/reproduction energy, and he laughed and estimated it and the donkey wasn't the least efficient converter on the list. I can't remember what was.
posted by clew at 6:59 PM on July 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by clew at 6:59 PM on July 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
A car that runs mainly on carbon monoxide? Noxious smoke during the obligatory warm-up time? Stopping to hand-feed wood chips into a giant oven thing every 30 miles or so? More weight, much less power, no trunk space? An estimated 5 miles per gallon of wood? Multiple opportunities to get severely burned if the system fails in any way (or even if it doesn't)? Where do I sign up!
All of these things with the exception of packaging issues, plus feed stock that can explode and causes cancer, described early gasoline/diesel transportation engines (or not so early really, gas engines for example have only achieved low emission and high efficiency operation in the last 15-20 years). It's only a 100 years of continual engineering and hundreds of billions of dollars that have mitigated these issues. Despite it's widespread use over the years wood-gas is still essentially in the experimental phase of it's development. I have no doubt these problems could be over come; whether their would be any trees left ungasified by that time is debatable.
posted by Mitheral at 9:11 PM on July 5, 2019
All of these things with the exception of packaging issues, plus feed stock that can explode and causes cancer, described early gasoline/diesel transportation engines (or not so early really, gas engines for example have only achieved low emission and high efficiency operation in the last 15-20 years). It's only a 100 years of continual engineering and hundreds of billions of dollars that have mitigated these issues. Despite it's widespread use over the years wood-gas is still essentially in the experimental phase of it's development. I have no doubt these problems could be over come; whether their would be any trees left ungasified by that time is debatable.
posted by Mitheral at 9:11 PM on July 5, 2019
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