The Popcorn Champs: Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark
March 6, 2020 10:26 AM Subscribe
"The Popcorn Champs looks back at the highest grossing movie in America from every year since 1960. In tracing the evolution of blockbuster cinema, maybe we can answer a question Hollywood has been asking itself for more than a century: What do people want to see?" In 1981 the answer is Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones (to be fair, they named the dog Indiana)
"The plane has just exploded. Indiana Jones and Marion Ravenwood have killed about a dozen Nazi soldiers and escaped. Against all possible odds, they have survived. They could return to their lives. But they won’t do that, since the Nazis are still in possession of the Ark of the Covenant. Indiana Jones can’t let them keep it. Leaning up against a sand dune, barely catching his breath, Indy tells his friend Sallah, “I’m going after that truck.” Sallah is confused. “How?” he asks. This is a reasonable question. Indy seems annoyed at having to even consider it. “I don’t know,” he says. “I’m making this up as I go.” One second later, Indiana Jones bursts out of a tent, riding a stolen horse, ready to embark on one of the greatest chase scenes in film history. That’s all the setup he needed"
"The plane has just exploded. Indiana Jones and Marion Ravenwood have killed about a dozen Nazi soldiers and escaped. Against all possible odds, they have survived. They could return to their lives. But they won’t do that, since the Nazis are still in possession of the Ark of the Covenant. Indiana Jones can’t let them keep it. Leaning up against a sand dune, barely catching his breath, Indy tells his friend Sallah, “I’m going after that truck.” Sallah is confused. “How?” he asks. This is a reasonable question. Indy seems annoyed at having to even consider it. “I don’t know,” he says. “I’m making this up as I go.” One second later, Indiana Jones bursts out of a tent, riding a stolen horse, ready to embark on one of the greatest chase scenes in film history. That’s all the setup he needed"
On rewatch Raiders of the Lost Ark is still an entertaining thrill ride, but it really struck me what an unabashed asshole Indiana Jones is. He's a terrible teacher. He's a terrible archaeologist (he has no interest in anything but grabbing the treasure). He's even a failure as a grave robber. It's strongly implied he committed statutory rape, which he blames on the woman. He gives her a very insincere apology only because he wants something from her. He has the opportunity to save her from captivity (and probably rape & torture) but doesn't, because it might blow his opportunity to get the treasure. Later, when he has another opportunity to save her from captivity, he surrenders instead when the Nazis call his bluff; they know he's not going to blow up the ark for this woman.
The only thing that raises Jones over Bellocq morally is that Jones isn't working with the Nazis. But nothing he says or does shows him to be ideologically opposed to the Nazis. He just happens to be working for the Americans instead. In fact, if he was up against anybody BUT Nazis, you'd have to root against the guy. You have to wonder why the filmmakers went to such great lengths to make their lead an absolutely despicable person. And the sad thing is, they got away with it. Seemingly, nobody in the Eighties even noticed. And they're still overlooking it, apparently. The worst this review can summon to say about the character is "But mostly, he’s a grumpy, laconic, wisecracking plunderer who finds himself fighting on the side of good almost by happenstance."
posted by rikschell at 10:50 AM on March 6, 2020 [19 favorites]
The only thing that raises Jones over Bellocq morally is that Jones isn't working with the Nazis. But nothing he says or does shows him to be ideologically opposed to the Nazis. He just happens to be working for the Americans instead. In fact, if he was up against anybody BUT Nazis, you'd have to root against the guy. You have to wonder why the filmmakers went to such great lengths to make their lead an absolutely despicable person. And the sad thing is, they got away with it. Seemingly, nobody in the Eighties even noticed. And they're still overlooking it, apparently. The worst this review can summon to say about the character is "But mostly, he’s a grumpy, laconic, wisecracking plunderer who finds himself fighting on the side of good almost by happenstance."
posted by rikschell at 10:50 AM on March 6, 2020 [19 favorites]
Hey, it's not like Han Solo was exactly a stand-up guy either. I think Harrison Ford excelled at playing rogues, especially back then. I could imagine that one could infer a progression of antihero roles from Han Solo to Indiana Jones to Rick Deckard.
posted by Ber at 10:58 AM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Ber at 10:58 AM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
The only thing that raises Jones over Bellocq morally is that Jones isn't working with the Nazis.
And he doesn't kidnap, threaten, and kill people to get his hands on the loot he wants.
He's a lie-cheat-steal scoundrel, not an enslave-torture-murder scoundrel. These are not equivalent.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:00 AM on March 6, 2020 [43 favorites]
And he doesn't kidnap, threaten, and kill people to get his hands on the loot he wants.
He's a lie-cheat-steal scoundrel, not an enslave-torture-murder scoundrel. These are not equivalent.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:00 AM on March 6, 2020 [43 favorites]
You have to wonder why the filmmakers went to such great lengths to make their lead an absolutely despicable person.
I loved "Raiders of the Lost Ark" as a kid, but I think the answer to this is that a lot of American heroes and motivations fall under the same rubric: Objectively and especially with the benefit of hindsight, they're trash -- but because they're good-looking white men on our side, we fail to see this in the moment.
posted by Borborygmus at 11:17 AM on March 6, 2020 [10 favorites]
It's noteworthy that for all the ways in which Raiders still holds up, Temple of Doom absolutely does not hold up anymore. It's a hyper-racist, hyper-misogynist retread that forgets how the original made its action fun, and should honestly be called "Indiana Jones and the Divorces of Lucas and Spielberg."
posted by Navelgazer at 11:32 AM on March 6, 2020 [24 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 11:32 AM on March 6, 2020 [24 favorites]
I saw it in the theater only a couple years ago and was again so impressed with Ford's performance. He calibrates the tone of it just so perfectly. He doesn't play it completely straight but he doesn't go the other way of winking at the audience saying "can you believe this shit?".
posted by octothorpe at 11:36 AM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 11:36 AM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
Seemingly, nobody in the Eighties even noticed.
The '80s seem to have been an oblivious time in general. I watched Top Gun for the first time a few years ago and it blew my mind how much blatant gay subtext there was, but apparently being gay was so unthinkable in the '80s that hardly anyone noticed it.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:40 AM on March 6, 2020 [9 favorites]
The '80s seem to have been an oblivious time in general. I watched Top Gun for the first time a few years ago and it blew my mind how much blatant gay subtext there was, but apparently being gay was so unthinkable in the '80s that hardly anyone noticed it.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:40 AM on March 6, 2020 [9 favorites]
Temple of Doom absolutely does not hold up anymore.
Temple of Doom didn't even hold up when it was in the theatres. We knew we were being made fun of but my friends and I had great fun calling the food we ate "chilled monkey brains" or "snake surprise". Or pretending to pull hearts out of each other's chests. We enjoyed it the same way my Chinese-Canadian friends enjoyed Big Trouble in Little China.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:46 AM on March 6, 2020 [15 favorites]
Temple of Doom didn't even hold up when it was in the theatres. We knew we were being made fun of but my friends and I had great fun calling the food we ate "chilled monkey brains" or "snake surprise". Or pretending to pull hearts out of each other's chests. We enjoyed it the same way my Chinese-Canadian friends enjoyed Big Trouble in Little China.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:46 AM on March 6, 2020 [15 favorites]
J.K. Seazer: "but apparently being gay was so unthinkable in the '80s that hardly anyone noticed it."
your 80s were not my 80s.
posted by chavenet at 11:53 AM on March 6, 2020 [11 favorites]
your 80s were not my 80s.
posted by chavenet at 11:53 AM on March 6, 2020 [11 favorites]
hardly anyone noticed it.Oh, no, we definitely noticed. I'm not queer, but it the subtext was super obvious to me at the time, and it was hilarious that it was invisible to so many people.
Also, I am constitutionally unable not to point out the existence of the Raiders Adaptation (previously covered here) created by middle-school kids in the 80s over the course of about 6 years.
posted by uberchet at 11:56 AM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
your 80s were not my 80s.
As a typical millennial, I was killing the '80s before I was even born.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:02 PM on March 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
As a typical millennial, I was killing the '80s before I was even born.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:02 PM on March 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
We are vearing into parachute pants territory.
posted by clavdivs at 12:21 PM on March 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 12:21 PM on March 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
apparently being gay was so unthinkable in the '80s that hardly anyone noticed it.
I dunno, kinda? gay culture and gay people in the 1980s were invisible and essentially mythical for me and probably many other people not living in a big city. I didn't meet an out LGBTQ person until I went to college.
posted by Dr. Twist at 12:23 PM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
I dunno, kinda? gay culture and gay people in the 1980s were invisible and essentially mythical for me and probably many other people not living in a big city. I didn't meet an out LGBTQ person until I went to college.
posted by Dr. Twist at 12:23 PM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
But nothing he says or does shows him to be ideologically opposed to the Nazis.
In Last Crusade, Indiana Jones has the line "Nazis! I hate those guys!" Jones' visceral disgust followed by active opposition is a good example to follow.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 1:10 PM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
In Last Crusade, Indiana Jones has the line "Nazis! I hate those guys!" Jones' visceral disgust followed by active opposition is a good example to follow.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 1:10 PM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
I was certainly oblivious in the '80s. When my gay cousin came over with his girlfriend, I commented afterwards that "he talks like some comedians on TV." The response I got, which I didn't understand until a few years later, was uncomfortable silence.
posted by clawsoon at 1:12 PM on March 6, 2020
posted by clawsoon at 1:12 PM on March 6, 2020
On rewatch Raiders of the Lost Ark is still an entertaining thrill ride, but it really struck me what an unabashed asshole Indiana Jones is.
Yes, he is. Like if I were on the curriculum committee with him and always had to do extra work because he was off misusing university funds, then his asshole behavior would bother me. However, I don't have to worry about him stealing my sandwiches from the faculty fridge (lbr he does that too), so I can enjoy watching him lie and cheat and steal and get tenure without actually publishing anything.
Personally, I don't have much interest in wholesome protagonists, but they're out there for those who are. Tbh, the racial and ethnic stereotypes in the film bother me more than the moral failings of Dr. Jones, but that's an issue I have with many, many 80s films (my least fave film decade) and I'm not going to get into it here.
posted by betweenthebars at 1:13 PM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
Yes, he is. Like if I were on the curriculum committee with him and always had to do extra work because he was off misusing university funds, then his asshole behavior would bother me. However, I don't have to worry about him stealing my sandwiches from the faculty fridge (lbr he does that too), so I can enjoy watching him lie and cheat and steal and get tenure without actually publishing anything.
Personally, I don't have much interest in wholesome protagonists, but they're out there for those who are. Tbh, the racial and ethnic stereotypes in the film bother me more than the moral failings of Dr. Jones, but that's an issue I have with many, many 80s films (my least fave film decade) and I'm not going to get into it here.
posted by betweenthebars at 1:13 PM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
Like if I were on the curriculum committee with him and always had to do extra work because he was off misusing university funds, then his asshole behavior would bother me.
That's why Indy's tenure was denied.
posted by hanov3r at 1:34 PM on March 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
That's why Indy's tenure was denied.
posted by hanov3r at 1:34 PM on March 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
We enjoyed it the same way my Chinese-Canadian friends enjoyed Big Trouble in Little China.
Big Trouble in Little China works as a pretty good satire of films like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Jack Burton is a hapless, blustering white dude who is way out of his depth and everyone in the movie knows it except him!
posted by lefty lucky cat at 1:44 PM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
Big Trouble in Little China works as a pretty good satire of films like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Jack Burton is a hapless, blustering white dude who is way out of his depth and everyone in the movie knows it except him!
posted by lefty lucky cat at 1:44 PM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
Watched Temple of Doom a couple months ago on a whim. I hadn't seen it since we rented it on VHS from the library, probably in the late '80s.
The opening sequence is amazing. Sure, it's full of racist stereotypes. But it's absolutely as good as Lost Ark. Everything about that first set piece is perfect. Just perfect. The movie crashes into a hard wall after that part in a jarring, almost startling way. It becomes nearly unwatchable. I think even as a kid, I mostly fell out of love with most of Spielberg's stuff when Temple of Doom came out. Don't get me wrong! I went to see every one of them in the theater!
Didn't know that beginning bit at Club Obi-Wan in Temple was originally concived for the first film, but reading that in this article makes perfect sense. Yes, plenty of problematic stuff in Raiders. But Raiders is nearly a perfect movie.
posted by SoberHighland at 1:49 PM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
The opening sequence is amazing. Sure, it's full of racist stereotypes. But it's absolutely as good as Lost Ark. Everything about that first set piece is perfect. Just perfect. The movie crashes into a hard wall after that part in a jarring, almost startling way. It becomes nearly unwatchable. I think even as a kid, I mostly fell out of love with most of Spielberg's stuff when Temple of Doom came out. Don't get me wrong! I went to see every one of them in the theater!
Didn't know that beginning bit at Club Obi-Wan in Temple was originally concived for the first film, but reading that in this article makes perfect sense. Yes, plenty of problematic stuff in Raiders. But Raiders is nearly a perfect movie.
posted by SoberHighland at 1:49 PM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
rikschell: That link to the story conference is creepy as all hell. Lucas is truly a weird, weird dude. Wouldn't be surprised to hear other unsavory details about the guy some time down the line.
posted by SoberHighland at 2:19 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by SoberHighland at 2:19 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Tom Breihan periodic historical columns previously:
The Popcorn Champs
A History of Violence
Age of Heroes
The Number Ones (music)
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:28 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
The Popcorn Champs
A History of Violence
Age of Heroes
The Number Ones (music)
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:28 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I didn't like the opening scene of Temple of Doom in Temple of Doom. I would have much preferred the opening scene of Temple of Doom if it had been in a James Bond movie, or an old Humphrey Bogart movie.
The concept of Indy selling relics to a gangster for diamonds just doesn't track with the Indy from either of the other two movies. And without appearances by either the university or Brody, it just felt completely adrift.
posted by Horkus at 2:29 PM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
The concept of Indy selling relics to a gangster for diamonds just doesn't track with the Indy from either of the other two movies. And without appearances by either the university or Brody, it just felt completely adrift.
posted by Horkus at 2:29 PM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
One second later, Indiana Jones bursts out of a tent, riding a stolen horse, ready to embark on one of the greatest chase scenes in film history. That’s all the setup he needed"
Hah, my parents watched this movie at the Van Nuys Drive-In (apparently I did too, but I was like 10 months old at the time), and projectionist skipped a reel. Their version of the movie showed Indy taking off with the horse and then...a cut to the an exterior shot of the submarine. It wasn't until us kids were old enough to watch the movie on VHS that he realized there was all kinds of shit between the horse and the sub.
Bonus late movie realization: My dad didn't realize that the Wizard of OZ switched to color when Dorthy got to Oz. He had only seen the movie on a B&W TV (I guess they played it at Christmas a bunch), and it again wasn't until us kids were watching it on VHS that he realized the incredibly crucial switch happened.
posted by sideshow at 3:49 PM on March 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Hah, my parents watched this movie at the Van Nuys Drive-In (apparently I did too, but I was like 10 months old at the time), and projectionist skipped a reel. Their version of the movie showed Indy taking off with the horse and then...a cut to the an exterior shot of the submarine. It wasn't until us kids were old enough to watch the movie on VHS that he realized there was all kinds of shit between the horse and the sub.
Bonus late movie realization: My dad didn't realize that the Wizard of OZ switched to color when Dorthy got to Oz. He had only seen the movie on a B&W TV (I guess they played it at Christmas a bunch), and it again wasn't until us kids were watching it on VHS that he realized the incredibly crucial switch happened.
posted by sideshow at 3:49 PM on March 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Which one is where he battles Tina Turner? That one's pretty good.
Bonus late movie realization: My dad didn't realize that the Wizard of OZ switched to color when Dorthy got to Oz. He had only seen the movie on a B&W TV (I guess they played it at Christmas a bunch), and it again wasn't until us kids were watching it on VHS that he realized the incredibly crucial switch happened.
Have you heard the joke along these lines? It started out as a black & white movie, but color film was invented partway through filming so they switched over to that to impress the audiences. However, color film was extremely expensive at the time and they ran out of money toward the end, so they had to switch back to B&W.
posted by rhizome at 3:54 PM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
Bonus late movie realization: My dad didn't realize that the Wizard of OZ switched to color when Dorthy got to Oz. He had only seen the movie on a B&W TV (I guess they played it at Christmas a bunch), and it again wasn't until us kids were watching it on VHS that he realized the incredibly crucial switch happened.
Have you heard the joke along these lines? It started out as a black & white movie, but color film was invented partway through filming so they switched over to that to impress the audiences. However, color film was extremely expensive at the time and they ran out of money toward the end, so they had to switch back to B&W.
posted by rhizome at 3:54 PM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
I saw the Wizard of Oz at least five or six times before we got a color set.
posted by octothorpe at 4:06 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 4:06 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
but it really struck me what an unabashed asshole Indiana Jones is.
One of the elements that makes this movie great is the Belloq calls him out on it in the film:
"You and I are very much alike. Archaeology is our religion, yet we have both fallen from the purer faith. Our methods have not differed as much as you pretend. I am a shadowy reflection of you. It would take only a nudge to make you like me, to push you out of the light."
What makes Indiana Jones a fun character is that he manages to remain in the light.
Last week we saw the PSO play the score to Raiders of the Lost Ark while the movie played on the big screen. It was great fun, the conductor (dressed in jacket, hat and whip) encouraged the audience to get into it (and they did) and there were a surprising number of kids dressed up as Indiana Jones, which warmed my pushing-50-80's-Harrison-Ford-loving-heart right up.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:52 PM on March 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
One of the elements that makes this movie great is the Belloq calls him out on it in the film:
"You and I are very much alike. Archaeology is our religion, yet we have both fallen from the purer faith. Our methods have not differed as much as you pretend. I am a shadowy reflection of you. It would take only a nudge to make you like me, to push you out of the light."
What makes Indiana Jones a fun character is that he manages to remain in the light.
Last week we saw the PSO play the score to Raiders of the Lost Ark while the movie played on the big screen. It was great fun, the conductor (dressed in jacket, hat and whip) encouraged the audience to get into it (and they did) and there were a surprising number of kids dressed up as Indiana Jones, which warmed my pushing-50-80's-Harrison-Ford-loving-heart right up.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:52 PM on March 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
One of the few perfect movies.
posted by gottabefunky at 4:53 PM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 4:53 PM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
What makes Indiana Jones a fun character is that he manages to remain in the light.
Pretty much this. Jones doesn't have to be a squeaky-clean Dudley Do-Right to be a good protagonist. He's allowed to have flaws, he's allowed to be a morally-questionable treasure hunter masquerading as an archaeologist. He's the one fighting to keep the Nazis from getting the Ark of the Covenant and that's what matters.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:32 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Pretty much this. Jones doesn't have to be a squeaky-clean Dudley Do-Right to be a good protagonist. He's allowed to have flaws, he's allowed to be a morally-questionable treasure hunter masquerading as an archaeologist. He's the one fighting to keep the Nazis from getting the Ark of the Covenant and that's what matters.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:32 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I also always thought Indy was supposed to be a bit of an asshole, like Han Solo. There are just a couple bits (like Marion's age) that would clearly be too edgy for a lovable rogue character now.
posted by atoxyl at 7:10 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by atoxyl at 7:10 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Raiders is simply a magnificent movie. It's like the apotheosis of worshiping adventure b-movies as a kid and watching them so much they've soaked into your very soul to the point where you can sit down and write... Raiders Of The Lost Ark. The sum total of everything you know is exciting about this kind of movie, gained from watching them and watching them and watching them.
It's basically how Tarantino writes his movies, only he's drawing from a different pool of movie experience.
posted by hippybear at 7:58 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
It's basically how Tarantino writes his movies, only he's drawing from a different pool of movie experience.
posted by hippybear at 7:58 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also, yes, Top Gun is gay gay gay gay gay and the gays have been talking about it basically since it came out, and a lot of non-gays were talking about it too.
posted by hippybear at 7:58 PM on March 6, 2020
posted by hippybear at 7:58 PM on March 6, 2020
SoberHighland: But Raiders is nearly a perfect movie.
I think it may, in fact, be my favorite movie. Over the past couple of years, it's become one of the standbys of the local midnight movie circuit. My rule is, if that's what's playing, that's what I'm doing. I've been known to see it twice in one weekend.
The more I watch it, the more I realize what a lean movie it is. I don't think it could gain or lose even a second and still be as great. Michael Kahn totally deserved the Oscar he got for editing.
Horkus: The concept of Indy selling relics to a gangster for diamonds just doesn't track with the Indy from either of the other two movies.
Temple of Doom could have been much better about showing Indy's character development (among many, many, manymanymany other things). It's supposed to show how he went from being in it for "fortune and glory" to being more altruistic, but that was not well depicted.
posted by MrBadExample at 8:06 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think it may, in fact, be my favorite movie. Over the past couple of years, it's become one of the standbys of the local midnight movie circuit. My rule is, if that's what's playing, that's what I'm doing. I've been known to see it twice in one weekend.
The more I watch it, the more I realize what a lean movie it is. I don't think it could gain or lose even a second and still be as great. Michael Kahn totally deserved the Oscar he got for editing.
Horkus: The concept of Indy selling relics to a gangster for diamonds just doesn't track with the Indy from either of the other two movies.
Temple of Doom could have been much better about showing Indy's character development (among many, many, manymanymany other things). It's supposed to show how he went from being in it for "fortune and glory" to being more altruistic, but that was not well depicted.
posted by MrBadExample at 8:06 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I am old as dirt and I remember when Top Gun came out. One reviewer called it "a homoerotic tribute to the Navy" so yeah, a lot of people got it. The high school girls crushing on Tom Cruise didn't get it but I clearly remember a gay friend of mine saying he saw it five times. It wasn't for the plot or the stunt flying.
posted by Ber at 8:14 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Ber at 8:14 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Such a tour de force of practical effects. When they drive a truck and drag someone under it, it's by...driving a truck and dragging someone under it!
posted by Chrysostom at 9:28 PM on March 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 9:28 PM on March 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
My favorite thing about most 80s movies is spent either going "holy shit, that's one hell of a stunt!" or going "holy shit, how did they even DO that in camera?". Today's digital age is much more vacant of wonder in the cinema.
posted by hippybear at 9:41 PM on March 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 9:41 PM on March 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
Chrysostom: "Such a tour de force of practical effects. When they drive a truck and drag someone under it, it's by...driving a truck and dragging someone under it!"
There was a TV special I saw about the stunts in Raiders. It was eye-opening. If you watch closely you can see the ditch they dug under the truck so that the stuntman could slide there without being grated. Also, you can see when the telephone pole under the truck shoots out to turn the truck full of munitions over in that Cairo scene where Marion's in the basket and it gets put into the truck and the truck turns over and blows up.
posted by chavenet at 1:14 AM on March 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
There was a TV special I saw about the stunts in Raiders. It was eye-opening. If you watch closely you can see the ditch they dug under the truck so that the stuntman could slide there without being grated. Also, you can see when the telephone pole under the truck shoots out to turn the truck full of munitions over in that Cairo scene where Marion's in the basket and it gets put into the truck and the truck turns over and blows up.
posted by chavenet at 1:14 AM on March 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Ber: "The high school girls crushing on Tom Cruise didn't get it "
Oh yes they did.
posted by chavenet at 1:17 AM on March 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Oh yes they did.
posted by chavenet at 1:17 AM on March 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
I wish I could watch Raiders for the first time today, to see if it stands up on its own, without the nostalgia factor. Because, like others have said, it's a damn near perfect popcorn-munching action-adventure movie. The cinematic equivalent of comfort food – like grandma's from-scratch macaroni and cheese.
Especially when times get hard, I find myself longing for a movie that presses the same buttons. And there are plenty of movies out there that are clearly aiming for a similar feel. But they're all Kraft Mac & Cheese, you know? They have the action set pieces, the dramatic orchestral score, the campy serial-fiction aesthetic, the swashbuckling cadence, the globe-trotting plot – but they just feel hollow. Even with huge budgets and star-studded casts, they can't bottle the same magic. Occasionally, they're worthwhile movies, but their reach always exceeds their grasp. It's like trying to paint a knockoff of the Mona Lisa.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:40 AM on March 7, 2020 [6 favorites]
Especially when times get hard, I find myself longing for a movie that presses the same buttons. And there are plenty of movies out there that are clearly aiming for a similar feel. But they're all Kraft Mac & Cheese, you know? They have the action set pieces, the dramatic orchestral score, the campy serial-fiction aesthetic, the swashbuckling cadence, the globe-trotting plot – but they just feel hollow. Even with huge budgets and star-studded casts, they can't bottle the same magic. Occasionally, they're worthwhile movies, but their reach always exceeds their grasp. It's like trying to paint a knockoff of the Mona Lisa.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:40 AM on March 7, 2020 [6 favorites]
My favorite thing about most 80s movies is spent either going "holy shit, that's one hell of a stunt!" or going "holy shit, how did they even DO that in camera?". Today's digital age is much more vacant of wonder in the cinema.
I used to be obsessed with movie special effects and wanted to know how they were done but now the answer is "with a computer" and I don't give a shit.
posted by octothorpe at 5:05 AM on March 7, 2020 [10 favorites]
I used to be obsessed with movie special effects and wanted to know how they were done but now the answer is "with a computer" and I don't give a shit.
posted by octothorpe at 5:05 AM on March 7, 2020 [10 favorites]
Yeah, Gay Top Gun has been a thing for a long time, but I think it was overshadowed by Point Break for a longer time, which I heard referenced that way much more often in the 90s+.
posted by rhizome at 2:00 PM on March 8, 2020
posted by rhizome at 2:00 PM on March 8, 2020
I will never stop wanting a Bellocq prequel (since I can't have a sequel). He was someone I always wanted to know a lot more about. I'd also love a Katanga side project. As characters they were always fascinating to me.
Another reason why the movie is so perfect. Everything mattered and added to the storytelling.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 5:07 AM on March 9, 2020
Another reason why the movie is so perfect. Everything mattered and added to the storytelling.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 5:07 AM on March 9, 2020
Quentin Tarantino on Top Gun in Sleep With Me (Caution: contains Quentin Tarantino acting):
posted by kirkaracha at 9:25 AM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Sid : It is a story about a man's struggle with his own homosexuality. It is! That is what Top Gun is about, man. You've got Maverick, all right? He's on the edge, man. He's right on the fucking line, all right? And you've got Iceman, and all his crew. They're gay, they represent the gay man, all right? And they're saying, go, go the gay way, go the gay way. He could go both ways.Kelly McGillis came out in 2009.
Duane : What about Kelly McGillis?
Sid : Kelly McGillis, she's heterosexuality. She's saying: no, no, no, no, no, no, go the normal way, play by the rules, go the normal way. They're saying no, go the gay way, be the gay way, go for the gay way, all right? That is what's going on throughout that whole movie... He goes to her house, all right? It looks like they're going to have sex, you know, they're just kind of sitting back, he's takin' a shower and everything. They don't have sex. He gets on the motorcycle, drives away. She's like, "What the fuck, what the fuck is going on here?" Next scene, next scene you see her, she's in the elevator, she is dressed like a guy. She's got the cap on, she's got the aviator glasses, she's wearing the same jacket that the Iceman wears. She is, okay, this is how I gotta get this guy, this guy's going towards the gay way, I gotta bring him back, I gotta bring him back from the gay way, so I'll do that through subterfuge, I'm gonna dress like a man. All right? That is how she approaches it. Okay, now let me just ask you - I'm gonna digress for two seconds here. I met this girl Amy here, she's like floating around here and everything. Now, she just got divorced, right? All right, but the REAL ending of the movie is when they fight the MIGs at the end, all right? Because he has passed over into the gay way. They are this gay fighting fucking force, all right? And they're beating the Russians, the gays are beating the Russians. And it's over, and they fucking land, and Iceman's been trying to get Maverick the entire time, and finally, he's got him, all right? And what is the last fucking line that they have together? They're all hugging and kissing and happy with each other, and Ice comes up to Maverick, and he says, "Man, you can ride my tail, anytime!" And what does Maverick say? "You can ride mine!" Swordfight! Swordfight! Fuckin' A, man!
posted by kirkaracha at 9:25 AM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Wait, is that really the angle? I thought it was more about volleyball and shit.
posted by rhizome at 10:12 AM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 10:12 AM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Everybody's at least a little gay during the volleyball scene.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:36 AM on March 9, 2020
posted by kirkaracha at 10:36 AM on March 9, 2020
I mostly think, "Fuck, I'd be miserable doing that. I'd rather be in the shade with a beer and a book."
posted by Chrysostom at 10:56 AM on March 9, 2020
posted by Chrysostom at 10:56 AM on March 9, 2020
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posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:34 AM on March 6, 2020 [22 favorites]