"a total inversion of multiple truths"
July 2, 2020 7:38 AM Subscribe
Last week a football match in the UK was the backdrop of a particularly racist episode: while players took the knee in support of BlackLivesMatter, some "fans" of the local team flew a banner above the stadium that read "White Lives Matter"*. Cambridge academic (and Guardian contributor) Dr Priyamvada Gopal tweeted in response "white lives don’t matter" (with the qualifier "as white lives"), and found herself the target of racist abuse. Her colleague Nicholas Guyatt, professor of American history at Cambridge University, shared in this thread on Twitter [Threadreader] a few insightful observations about the whole episode and the reactions to it, specific racist attitudes in British media & politics** and white privilege in general.
Notes:
* a couple of quick reminders about the origins and usage of the phrase "white lives matter" - from the ADL and the SPLC (CW: racist slurs quoted as examples of white suprematists’ language)
** related: UK foreign secretary thinks taking the knee is a "symbol of subjugation and subordination" like something "out of Game of Thrones" — see instead: From Muhammad Ali to Colin Kaepernick, the proud history of black protest in sport
Notes:
* a couple of quick reminders about the origins and usage of the phrase "white lives matter" - from the ADL and the SPLC (CW: racist slurs quoted as examples of white suprematists’ language)
** related: UK foreign secretary thinks taking the knee is a "symbol of subjugation and subordination" like something "out of Game of Thrones" — see instead: From Muhammad Ali to Colin Kaepernick, the proud history of black protest in sport
(Gopal is her last name, not Gopa.)
posted by lesbiassparrow at 7:43 AM on July 2, 2020
posted by lesbiassparrow at 7:43 AM on July 2, 2020
Thanks lesbiassparrow, the final l was a victim of my copying and pasting links! I will ask the mods to fix that
posted by bitteschoen at 7:45 AM on July 2, 2020
posted by bitteschoen at 7:45 AM on July 2, 2020
Mod note: Hi, made a small correction to the spelling of Gopal.
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 8:06 AM on July 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 8:06 AM on July 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
An eleven-word Tweet is completely inappropriate for the ideas that Gopal was (charitably) trying to get across and was always going to be massively counter-productive, even with those above the level of aeroplane-banner-waving eejits who don't understand basic set theory.
posted by Aethelwulf at 8:10 AM on July 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Aethelwulf at 8:10 AM on July 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
Oh, were you thinking this should be an argument about how the form of a complaint from a victim of oppression is more important than its substance?
Because that is not a thing we do here any more.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:17 AM on July 2, 2020 [29 favorites]
Because that is not a thing we do here any more.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:17 AM on July 2, 2020 [29 favorites]
Interesting.
Good to read this in the context of yesterday's post on the term "BIPOC". Essentially racism creates these wholly unnatural categories in the first place and then we have to keep using them while we disassemble the machinery of race.
I don't think any normal person thinks of themselves as "white" to be honest. It's one thing to acknowledge that it's a category that exists in society and it would be dishonest for someone to pretend it didn't apply to them which I think of as "Michael Scott anti-racism" tagline, "I don't even see race!", but I really can't think of any way that someone would pick that as a core part of their identity without it being bad.
posted by atrazine at 8:19 AM on July 2, 2020
Good to read this in the context of yesterday's post on the term "BIPOC". Essentially racism creates these wholly unnatural categories in the first place and then we have to keep using them while we disassemble the machinery of race.
I don't think any normal person thinks of themselves as "white" to be honest. It's one thing to acknowledge that it's a category that exists in society and it would be dishonest for someone to pretend it didn't apply to them which I think of as "Michael Scott anti-racism" tagline, "I don't even see race!", but I really can't think of any way that someone would pick that as a core part of their identity without it being bad.
posted by atrazine at 8:19 AM on July 2, 2020
An eleven-word Tweet is completely inappropriate for the ideas that Gopal was (charitably) trying to get across and was always going to be massively counter-productive, even with those above the level of aeroplane-banner-waving eejits who don't understand basic set theory.
Remember that she is an academic and not an activist let alone a politician. The latter has to construct a message that brings a coalition together.
Academics should provoke with the intention of stimulating thought. She didn't accidentally say something provocative, you know? It's intended to briefly stagger the reader and as they recover their mental footing lead them somewhere interesting which I think it does do.
posted by atrazine at 8:24 AM on July 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Remember that she is an academic and not an activist let alone a politician. The latter has to construct a message that brings a coalition together.
Academics should provoke with the intention of stimulating thought. She didn't accidentally say something provocative, you know? It's intended to briefly stagger the reader and as they recover their mental footing lead them somewhere interesting which I think it does do.
posted by atrazine at 8:24 AM on July 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
The Burnley supporters already had this rep, so much so that on /r/soccer someone literally quipped ahead of time that a fan would probably fly an All Lives Manner banner around during the game. Although, that subreddit is 70% banter about the very worst examples of supporters and the community, so it's not as if all their supporters are shit heads online.
That said, the article doesn't mention it, but the guy who did the banner is a piece of shit, and he's banned for life from the club and he lost his job. He had lots of "but I have a black friend" type stuff to say and feigned obliviousness to what even Black Lives Matter means, so his "White Lives Matter" couldn't possible be racist blah blah. Obviously not true in the least, he knew what he was doing.
Another piece of this hell story is that his girlfriend/wife got in trouble for a different racial related incident at her job, and rather than just doing the basically useless discrimination training to stay employed, she refused and got terminated. So, definitely a pair of racist shit heads.
posted by sideshow at 8:34 AM on July 2, 2020 [9 favorites]
That said, the article doesn't mention it, but the guy who did the banner is a piece of shit, and he's banned for life from the club and he lost his job. He had lots of "but I have a black friend" type stuff to say and feigned obliviousness to what even Black Lives Matter means, so his "White Lives Matter" couldn't possible be racist blah blah. Obviously not true in the least, he knew what he was doing.
Another piece of this hell story is that his girlfriend/wife got in trouble for a different racial related incident at her job, and rather than just doing the basically useless discrimination training to stay employed, she refused and got terminated. So, definitely a pair of racist shit heads.
posted by sideshow at 8:34 AM on July 2, 2020 [9 favorites]
I don't think any normal person thinks of themselves as "white" to be honest.
This is a wholeass problem. Who did you mean by "normal?" We white people tend to think of ourselves as "normal" and not white and that leads to "not seeing color." I think it also leads to assigning a kind of whiteness to our "many Black friends." Because ones Black friends are "normal" people they are no longer "those people." It's kinda the inverse of "The Irish were also discriminated against so I can't be racist." It's a fundamental and probably willful misunderstanding of what whiteness is.
posted by Uncle at 9:37 AM on July 2, 2020 [15 favorites]
This is a wholeass problem. Who did you mean by "normal?" We white people tend to think of ourselves as "normal" and not white and that leads to "not seeing color." I think it also leads to assigning a kind of whiteness to our "many Black friends." Because ones Black friends are "normal" people they are no longer "those people." It's kinda the inverse of "The Irish were also discriminated against so I can't be racist." It's a fundamental and probably willful misunderstanding of what whiteness is.
posted by Uncle at 9:37 AM on July 2, 2020 [15 favorites]
An eleven-word Tweet is completely inappropriate for the ideas that Gopal was (charitably) trying to get across and was always going to be massively counter-productive
I'm actually not sure that it was. I mean, I'm sure it was a bad experience for her and she may well have wanted to avoid that. But, it drew further attention to the problems that the UK does face, caused people who would not necessarily have noted a racist incident at a football match to pay attention, and her institution appears to have backed her up pretty well. I think there are productive outcomes, and whether or not they make the whole thing "worth it" is not as clear cut as suggested here (and is something for Gopal to decide in any case).
Burnley FC probably need to do quite a bit more to show racism the red card within their fanbase than they've done so far.
posted by plonkee at 9:41 AM on July 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm actually not sure that it was. I mean, I'm sure it was a bad experience for her and she may well have wanted to avoid that. But, it drew further attention to the problems that the UK does face, caused people who would not necessarily have noted a racist incident at a football match to pay attention, and her institution appears to have backed her up pretty well. I think there are productive outcomes, and whether or not they make the whole thing "worth it" is not as clear cut as suggested here (and is something for Gopal to decide in any case).
Burnley FC probably need to do quite a bit more to show racism the red card within their fanbase than they've done so far.
posted by plonkee at 9:41 AM on July 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you're wondering about the timing of the Take a Knee protests in UK football (which doesn't as far as I know play the national anthem pre-game), the Guardian (archive link) describes one of them (though not this specific match):
It did not take long to notice that something was different. The players of Aston Villa and Sheffield United, contesting the first English football fixture in 100 days, came out on to the pitch at staggered times and then stood in a physically distant line to listen, as the Premier League anthem echoed across empty stands.
The teams then passed by each other without the traditional shake of hands and when the referee, Michael Oliver, blew his whistle for kick-off something else uncommon happened too: both teams and their coaching staff dropping to the ground to take a knee. This graceful, powerful action had been initiated and coordinated by the players to show support for racial justice. It was an image beamed around the world as a global audience tuned back in to the Premier League.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 9:55 AM on July 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
It did not take long to notice that something was different. The players of Aston Villa and Sheffield United, contesting the first English football fixture in 100 days, came out on to the pitch at staggered times and then stood in a physically distant line to listen, as the Premier League anthem echoed across empty stands.
The teams then passed by each other without the traditional shake of hands and when the referee, Michael Oliver, blew his whistle for kick-off something else uncommon happened too: both teams and their coaching staff dropping to the ground to take a knee. This graceful, powerful action had been initiated and coordinated by the players to show support for racial justice. It was an image beamed around the world as a global audience tuned back in to the Premier League.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 9:55 AM on July 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
>An eleven-word Tweet is completely inappropriate for the ideas that Gopal was (charitably) trying to get across
Gopal is on record as rejecting that excuse:
Frankly, the claim that tweets aren’t long enough for ‘nuance’ simply doesn’t wash. As Theodor Adorno shows us with exemplary economy, it is part of intellectual morality to be utterly precise and clear even in the shortest of sentences, particularly when it comes to matters of life, livelihood and the dignity of peoples.
posted by verstegan at 10:17 AM on July 2, 2020 [5 favorites]
Gopal is on record as rejecting that excuse:
Frankly, the claim that tweets aren’t long enough for ‘nuance’ simply doesn’t wash. As Theodor Adorno shows us with exemplary economy, it is part of intellectual morality to be utterly precise and clear even in the shortest of sentences, particularly when it comes to matters of life, livelihood and the dignity of peoples.
posted by verstegan at 10:17 AM on July 2, 2020 [5 favorites]
Dr. Gopal's point is incisive, important, and I think part of its strength comes from its short, clear statement of something white people don't want to think about.
I think of myself as a fairly "normal white person," in that I am not a white nationalist, and yet I am part of a white supremacist system that I have to constantly work against and that shows itself in ways I still need to work to uproot. Whiteness is part of my core identity; there's no getting around it. White folks "have race," we just like to pretend that we don't so we can (consciously or not) mark everyone else as "not normal." Whiteness is the privilege I have bathed in, it's the thing that lets me move through Boston without fear of repercussions due to my race, it's the thing that lets me inherently get respect when I walk in a room of students, etc. My whiteness is one of the things about me that has been utterly formative.
Until all white people realize just how formative our racial identity is, we won't be able to actually do anything about white supremacy - which I think is so pervasive and insidious because "normal white people" pretend that our whiteness is not meaningful, powerful, or consequential, and so we don't challenge all the ways it has meaning, power, and consequences.
posted by ChuraChura at 10:41 AM on July 2, 2020 [14 favorites]
I think of myself as a fairly "normal white person," in that I am not a white nationalist, and yet I am part of a white supremacist system that I have to constantly work against and that shows itself in ways I still need to work to uproot. Whiteness is part of my core identity; there's no getting around it. White folks "have race," we just like to pretend that we don't so we can (consciously or not) mark everyone else as "not normal." Whiteness is the privilege I have bathed in, it's the thing that lets me move through Boston without fear of repercussions due to my race, it's the thing that lets me inherently get respect when I walk in a room of students, etc. My whiteness is one of the things about me that has been utterly formative.
Until all white people realize just how formative our racial identity is, we won't be able to actually do anything about white supremacy - which I think is so pervasive and insidious because "normal white people" pretend that our whiteness is not meaningful, powerful, or consequential, and so we don't challenge all the ways it has meaning, power, and consequences.
posted by ChuraChura at 10:41 AM on July 2, 2020 [14 favorites]
re: Burnley, the post-match interview from their captain Ben Mee is a pretty strong rebuke and stand for inclusion from someone who's not paid to be a professional communicator.
posted by ambrosen at 10:43 AM on July 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by ambrosen at 10:43 AM on July 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
As the classic syllogism goes:
All men are mortal
Socrates is a man
Therefore, Socrates lies dead at the hands of brutal state oppression
... or something like that
posted by thedamnbees at 10:48 AM on July 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
All men are mortal
Socrates is a man
Therefore, Socrates lies dead at the hands of brutal state oppression
... or something like that
posted by thedamnbees at 10:48 AM on July 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I don't think any normal person thinks of themselves as "white" to be honest.
This is a wholeass problem.
maybe it isn't necessary to convince white people that they must self-identify as white even if they dont want to or dont see themselves as such. maybe it's enough instead to convince them that in the society they live in, others perceive them as white with all the attendant benefits and privileges that carries.
that way, we dont enter into the morass of telling anyone what they should be or feel in their heart--because that doesnt matter anyway, just like it doesnt matter when racist people avow that they arent racist in their heart. what matters is how they get on in society and how their society treats them and what responsibilities that fairly places on them.
posted by wibari at 2:37 PM on July 2, 2020
This is a wholeass problem.
maybe it isn't necessary to convince white people that they must self-identify as white even if they dont want to or dont see themselves as such. maybe it's enough instead to convince them that in the society they live in, others perceive them as white with all the attendant benefits and privileges that carries.
that way, we dont enter into the morass of telling anyone what they should be or feel in their heart--because that doesnt matter anyway, just like it doesnt matter when racist people avow that they arent racist in their heart. what matters is how they get on in society and how their society treats them and what responsibilities that fairly places on them.
posted by wibari at 2:37 PM on July 2, 2020
This is a wholeass problem. Who did you mean by "normal?" We white people tend to think of ourselves as "normal" and not white and that leads to "not seeing color." I think it also leads to assigning a kind of whiteness to our "many Black friends." Because ones Black friends are "normal" people they are no longer "those people." It's kinda the inverse of "The Irish were also discriminated against so I can't be racist." It's a fundamental and probably willful misunderstanding of what whiteness is.
What I mean by that, as a person who the world identifies as white (and who would therefore be disingenuous not to acknowledge that), is that "white" as an identity is entirely constructed by racism.
There is a difference though between accepting that this is a category that exists in the world and that we have to work with and choosing to embrace it as actually meaningful as an identity.
It's specifically the latter that I think is abnormal (in a normative sense) since once you take it apart to look inside there's nothing there but a negative.
There are groups of people who happen to be mostly white and there's nothing wrong with identifying with those groups.
posted by atrazine at 4:13 PM on July 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
What I mean by that, as a person who the world identifies as white (and who would therefore be disingenuous not to acknowledge that), is that "white" as an identity is entirely constructed by racism.
There is a difference though between accepting that this is a category that exists in the world and that we have to work with and choosing to embrace it as actually meaningful as an identity.
It's specifically the latter that I think is abnormal (in a normative sense) since once you take it apart to look inside there's nothing there but a negative.
There are groups of people who happen to be mostly white and there's nothing wrong with identifying with those groups.
posted by atrazine at 4:13 PM on July 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think antrazine hits on the heart of the matter. I would emphasize that “‘white’ as an identity is entirely constructed by racism.” The essential contradiction of race is that it is socially constructed (biologically irrelevant/nonexistent), yet it has brutal material consequences. Whiteness is a function of racism, but that doesn’t mean we can pretend it doesn’t exist.
posted by thedamnbees at 4:37 PM on July 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by thedamnbees at 4:37 PM on July 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
I heard it somewhere but can t find an attribution, to distinguish between "those who are called white, and those who answer the call". Perhaps this can be a useful concept.
If "Whiteness" is historically expanded to include more and more ethnicities over time, maybe it s worth looking at that process. Within my memory, Cajun people in Louisiana, historically subject to a moment of genocide in the new world, were recognized for state cultural funding, but had to 'clean up' the history of Cajun mixed ancestry to qualify for the fund as a 'legitimate ' culture. So, with the rift being more recent, the whiteness being more contingent, you see too many Cajun people 'answering the call' by publically calling for racial discrimination; most publicly, US Rep Clay Higgins.
For a minute, I thought the USA was going to push hard into making more Hispanics "white", (cf.Ted Cruz). But the movement for latinx solidarity, as well as the seemingly irresistible call to inflame southern border issues as the electoral strategy of the Republican party, seem to have stalled this latest reconfiguration of USA whiteness.
But I m curious to hear about the histories of whiteness in the UK, where the class system has been more explicitly dominant --- why Burnley?
posted by eustatic at 7:11 AM on July 4, 2020
If "Whiteness" is historically expanded to include more and more ethnicities over time, maybe it s worth looking at that process. Within my memory, Cajun people in Louisiana, historically subject to a moment of genocide in the new world, were recognized for state cultural funding, but had to 'clean up' the history of Cajun mixed ancestry to qualify for the fund as a 'legitimate ' culture. So, with the rift being more recent, the whiteness being more contingent, you see too many Cajun people 'answering the call' by publically calling for racial discrimination; most publicly, US Rep Clay Higgins.
For a minute, I thought the USA was going to push hard into making more Hispanics "white", (cf.Ted Cruz). But the movement for latinx solidarity, as well as the seemingly irresistible call to inflame southern border issues as the electoral strategy of the Republican party, seem to have stalled this latest reconfiguration of USA whiteness.
But I m curious to hear about the histories of whiteness in the UK, where the class system has been more explicitly dominant --- why Burnley?
posted by eustatic at 7:11 AM on July 4, 2020
But I m curious to hear about the histories of whiteness in the UK, where the class system has been more explicitly dominant --- why Burnley?
Like most former mill towns in Lancashire, Burnley has an Asian (predominantly Pakistani) minority community that is de facto segregated from the majority white population. Both communities are insular, and 'left behind' in both economic and cultural senses. It is a town in which I would expect Like most football clubs in northern towns of this size, Burnley FC is mainly supported by local white working class men and women. I don't know why it has such a strong racist element.
posted by plonkee at 9:56 AM on July 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Like most former mill towns in Lancashire, Burnley has an Asian (predominantly Pakistani) minority community that is de facto segregated from the majority white population. Both communities are insular, and 'left behind' in both economic and cultural senses. It is a town in which I would expect Like most football clubs in northern towns of this size, Burnley FC is mainly supported by local white working class men and women. I don't know why it has such a strong racist element.
posted by plonkee at 9:56 AM on July 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by lesbiassparrow at 7:42 AM on July 2, 2020 [3 favorites]