California Election Guide 2020
September 25, 2020 9:11 AM Subscribe
Confused about CA's propositions on the ballot? CalMatters has you covered. CalMatters is a non-profit, non-partisan newsroom committed to explaining California policy and politics. For 2020, they've created a guide to all of the propositions on this year's ballot.
The guide provides the following: explanations in plain language about what the proposition would do if passed, what supporters and opponents say, which groups support and oppose, how much funding is being provided, and by whom, and a quiz at the bottom to help you figure out if you support or oppose.
The guide provides the following: explanations in plain language about what the proposition would do if passed, what supporters and opponents say, which groups support and oppose, how much funding is being provided, and by whom, and a quiz at the bottom to help you figure out if you support or oppose.
In general, it seems that these assessments can be simplified:
...if the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association is against something, then sane people should be in favor of it.
posted by aramaic at 9:56 AM on September 25, 2020 [26 favorites]
...if the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association is against something, then sane people should be in favor of it.
posted by aramaic at 9:56 AM on September 25, 2020 [26 favorites]
My default position on ballot propositions is to vote NO unless I can find a compelling argument to vote otherwise.
While "direct democracy" sounds good in theory, in practice it's led to bad law (Prop 13 being the canonical example) that is very difficult for the legislature to adjust or repeal. And it allows big spenders to buy a place on the ballot. Look at Prop 24: it's only on the ballot because a rich guy (Alastair Mactaggart) thinks it's in his interest to do so; more like "direct deposit democracy," amirite? Even if well-intended, laws drafted by amateurs tend to be poorly-written and since it is intentionally difficult for the legislature to modify these laws, garbage laws (like Prop 13) tend to stay on the books.
Keep in mind that these are state propositions. Every county and city has its own ballot proposition process and it takes a lot of time for even a dedicated voter to weed through the arguments FOR and AGAINST to figure out whose ox is being gored.
Respect to CalMatters for providing this resource; I will definitely make use of it. But I think it's unreasonable to expect every California voter to escape from the labyrinth of state, county and city propositions without feeling a bit of uncertainty: did I vote the right way, or not?
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On Edit: yes! to aramaic. The best thing about the arguments FOR and AGAINST is that the arguments tell you that this proposition is backed/opposed by a lot of assholes, "Howard Jarvis" (he of Prop 13) leading the pack.
posted by SPrintF at 10:02 AM on September 25, 2020 [7 favorites]
While "direct democracy" sounds good in theory, in practice it's led to bad law (Prop 13 being the canonical example) that is very difficult for the legislature to adjust or repeal. And it allows big spenders to buy a place on the ballot. Look at Prop 24: it's only on the ballot because a rich guy (Alastair Mactaggart) thinks it's in his interest to do so; more like "direct deposit democracy," amirite? Even if well-intended, laws drafted by amateurs tend to be poorly-written and since it is intentionally difficult for the legislature to modify these laws, garbage laws (like Prop 13) tend to stay on the books.
Keep in mind that these are state propositions. Every county and city has its own ballot proposition process and it takes a lot of time for even a dedicated voter to weed through the arguments FOR and AGAINST to figure out whose ox is being gored.
Respect to CalMatters for providing this resource; I will definitely make use of it. But I think it's unreasonable to expect every California voter to escape from the labyrinth of state, county and city propositions without feeling a bit of uncertainty: did I vote the right way, or not?
--------
On Edit: yes! to aramaic. The best thing about the arguments FOR and AGAINST is that the arguments tell you that this proposition is backed/opposed by a lot of assholes, "Howard Jarvis" (he of Prop 13) leading the pack.
posted by SPrintF at 10:02 AM on September 25, 2020 [7 favorites]
My problem with the default of no is similar to my problems with people who don't tip or who say because Bernie lost they won't vote for Biden. I agree that the system is broken and things absolutely could and should be better, but one person taking that approach in a vacuum leads to negative outcomes to those who don't have the ability to claim a moral high ground. Maybe that's what you mean by compelling argument, but then the devil's in the details.
posted by Carillon at 10:28 AM on September 25, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Carillon at 10:28 AM on September 25, 2020 [3 favorites]
My default position on ballot propositions is to vote NO unless I can find a compelling argument to vote otherwise.
...except for school bonds, zoning changes to allow more affordable housing, .
And yeah, the anti-taxers are bad. It's not easy to use the term, but my current stance is that to the degree that you work to reduce the amount of taxes through a complicated return filing (loopholes, investment and savings engineering, etc.), you are anti-American. "Anti" as in consciously working to prevent the U.S. government from operating. We all can argue about how well the government spends the money that it does get, but to decide for yourself that potholes are just fine, that military excursions are useful, that teacher salaries are just fine, that public defenders have the correct workload, that poor kids don't need breakfast, oversight agencies have enough staff, and so on, all the way up to federal issues, is a pretty shitty attitude to have toward your neighbors nationwide.
That said, I like this project. Explaining things in "plain language" is a minefield because writing with an even hand is difficult. Streamlining the decision process cuts both ways and risks accusations of bias, or partisan gravitation by the project itself. Things like this and voting notes that can actually fit in a pocket and be used in the voting booth, unlike California sample ballots which appear to be required to be the exact same size as the actual ballot, and not detachable from the magazine-sized voter information guide.
posted by rhizome at 10:35 AM on September 25, 2020 [3 favorites]
...except for school bonds, zoning changes to allow more affordable housing, .
And yeah, the anti-taxers are bad. It's not easy to use the term, but my current stance is that to the degree that you work to reduce the amount of taxes through a complicated return filing (loopholes, investment and savings engineering, etc.), you are anti-American. "Anti" as in consciously working to prevent the U.S. government from operating. We all can argue about how well the government spends the money that it does get, but to decide for yourself that potholes are just fine, that military excursions are useful, that teacher salaries are just fine, that public defenders have the correct workload, that poor kids don't need breakfast, oversight agencies have enough staff, and so on, all the way up to federal issues, is a pretty shitty attitude to have toward your neighbors nationwide.
That said, I like this project. Explaining things in "plain language" is a minefield because writing with an even hand is difficult. Streamlining the decision process cuts both ways and risks accusations of bias, or partisan gravitation by the project itself. Things like this and voting notes that can actually fit in a pocket and be used in the voting booth, unlike California sample ballots which appear to be required to be the exact same size as the actual ballot, and not detachable from the magazine-sized voter information guide.
posted by rhizome at 10:35 AM on September 25, 2020 [3 favorites]
The problem with "vote no" is all the times the props are deliberately worded to evoke a no response that is actually a yes to something awful.
I use the League of Women Voters California to prepare my votes, as they have an excellent prop explainer that includes "who's for it" and "who's against it". My rule of thumb is if the LA police/sheriff's department union is for it, I am definitely not.
And PLEASE, Californians, DO learn about this year's set of props, because there's a lot going on here:
Prop 14 – Stem Cell Research
Prop 15 – Taxes on Commercial Property
Prop 16 – Allow Public Agencies to Consider Diversity
Prop 17 – Voting Rights for People Who Have Completed Their Prison Term
Prop 18 – Voting Rights for 17-Year-Olds
Prop 19 – Changes in Property Tax Rules
Prop 20 – Changes to Criminal Penalties and Parole
Prop 21 – Local Governments and Rent Control
Prop 22 – Rideshare and Delivery Drivers
Prop 23 – Kidney Dialysis Clinics
Prop 24 – Changes to Consumer Privacy Laws
Prop 25 – Yes or No on Getting Rid of Bail
posted by Lyn Never at 10:44 AM on September 25, 2020 [11 favorites]
I use the League of Women Voters California to prepare my votes, as they have an excellent prop explainer that includes "who's for it" and "who's against it". My rule of thumb is if the LA police/sheriff's department union is for it, I am definitely not.
And PLEASE, Californians, DO learn about this year's set of props, because there's a lot going on here:
Prop 14 – Stem Cell Research
Prop 15 – Taxes on Commercial Property
Prop 16 – Allow Public Agencies to Consider Diversity
Prop 17 – Voting Rights for People Who Have Completed Their Prison Term
Prop 18 – Voting Rights for 17-Year-Olds
Prop 19 – Changes in Property Tax Rules
Prop 20 – Changes to Criminal Penalties and Parole
Prop 21 – Local Governments and Rent Control
Prop 22 – Rideshare and Delivery Drivers
Prop 23 – Kidney Dialysis Clinics
Prop 24 – Changes to Consumer Privacy Laws
Prop 25 – Yes or No on Getting Rid of Bail
posted by Lyn Never at 10:44 AM on September 25, 2020 [11 favorites]
My friend Pete has been rating all California propositions for 40 years. I don't always agree with his conclusions, but he's always got a good analysis. Plus each election one analysis is a poem.
posted by feckless at 11:09 AM on September 25, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by feckless at 11:09 AM on September 25, 2020 [7 favorites]
The Split Roll proposition warms the cockles of this quasi-Georgist's heart, yes.
Prolly not going to pass because people but hey we gotta try.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 11:10 AM on September 25, 2020
Prolly not going to pass because people but hey we gotta try.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 11:10 AM on September 25, 2020
>Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association
back last decade I got paid $100 by them via one of those random focus group thingies.
Part of the deal was they gave out dials for the group to individually rate our feelings on a series of things -- when Howard Jarvis TA came up, I damn near broke the dial on its CCW detent of course.
The fucks were outside the room for a bit afterwards and yes they all looked like frat-boy Orange County scion types, like who are running things today.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 11:14 AM on September 25, 2020
back last decade I got paid $100 by them via one of those random focus group thingies.
Part of the deal was they gave out dials for the group to individually rate our feelings on a series of things -- when Howard Jarvis TA came up, I damn near broke the dial on its CCW detent of course.
The fucks were outside the room for a bit afterwards and yes they all looked like frat-boy Orange County scion types, like who are running things today.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 11:14 AM on September 25, 2020
You'd be surprised, Prop 15 is actually polling pretty well relatively speaking at the moment.
posted by toastyk at 11:20 AM on September 25, 2020
posted by toastyk at 11:20 AM on September 25, 2020
I'm deeply conflicted about Prop13. On the one hand, I empathize with my friends who pay huge current market-value taxes on their properties and the unfairness of that. On the other hand, homeownership for me is only going to happen if I outlive my Dad and inherit my childhood house - which I would immediately be forced to sell if it were re-assessed for taxes and I had to pay that bill. It's a modest house in a nice neighborhood, and what little money I've been able to save over the years towards buying a condo or something for myself is now earmarked for inheritance taxes.
I don't think commercial property should be protected, but there's nuance there in that I do think SBO's are worth protecting.
Do I vote against my own best interest to help build a better community or be selfish? If it was something other than literally my not being homeless as a senior citizen, I'd probably feel differently.
posted by ApathyGirl at 11:31 AM on September 25, 2020
I don't think commercial property should be protected, but there's nuance there in that I do think SBO's are worth protecting.
Do I vote against my own best interest to help build a better community or be selfish? If it was something other than literally my not being homeless as a senior citizen, I'd probably feel differently.
posted by ApathyGirl at 11:31 AM on September 25, 2020
I'm deeply conflicted about Prop13. On the one hand, I empathize with my friends who pay huge current market-value taxes on their properties and the unfairness of that. On the other hand, homeownership for me is only going to happen if I outlive my Dad and inherit my childhood house - which I would immediately be forced to sell if it were re-assessed for taxes and I had to pay that bill. It's a modest house in a nice neighborhood, and what little money I've been able to save over the years towards buying a condo or something for myself is now earmarked for inheritance taxes.
There are no inheritance taxes in CA (unless something has changed recently), and federal estate taxes are on individual inheritance greater than $5m. If it got re-asssessed to as high as $2m, then yearly property taxes would be in the $25k range, which is high but is 1.25% of $2m, which would leave you with like 3X the current median coastal CA home price to buy a home.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:46 AM on September 25, 2020 [6 favorites]
There are no inheritance taxes in CA (unless something has changed recently), and federal estate taxes are on individual inheritance greater than $5m. If it got re-asssessed to as high as $2m, then yearly property taxes would be in the $25k range, which is high but is 1.25% of $2m, which would leave you with like 3X the current median coastal CA home price to buy a home.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:46 AM on September 25, 2020 [6 favorites]
I became old enough to vote and first registered in California, and distinctly remember mailing in my ballot to vote against Prop 8. When I first started voting elsewhere (I now vote in New York State) I remember being dismayed at the relative lack of propositions or proposals on the ballot in that Californian/Western US direct-democracy way.
Now that I've done some more education and seen more elections, I'm pretty skeptical of the value/net benefit of these propositions (hello, Prop 8 and before my lifetime, also Prop 13) but I can't deny as a voter that it does feel immediately more like I'm having an impact on policy than otherwise.
(This may also be because I am living in NYS where, prior to the last year or two, I have sometimes felt like I am living in a bizarro blue state with red state-style voter restrictions, but that's another story.)
posted by andrewesque at 11:49 AM on September 25, 2020
Now that I've done some more education and seen more elections, I'm pretty skeptical of the value/net benefit of these propositions (hello, Prop 8 and before my lifetime, also Prop 13) but I can't deny as a voter that it does feel immediately more like I'm having an impact on policy than otherwise.
(This may also be because I am living in NYS where, prior to the last year or two, I have sometimes felt like I am living in a bizarro blue state with red state-style voter restrictions, but that's another story.)
posted by andrewesque at 11:49 AM on September 25, 2020
Proposition 58, passed in 1986, allows property owners to transfer their primary residence to their children and lets the child maintain the Prop 13 assessment basis. Then in 1996, Proposition 193 passed, which allows some property to be transferred from grandparents to grandchildren.
So vote for Prop 15 with a clear conscience, Apathy Girl and others.
posted by mogget at 11:53 AM on September 25, 2020 [5 favorites]
So vote for Prop 15 with a clear conscience, Apathy Girl and others.
posted by mogget at 11:53 AM on September 25, 2020 [5 favorites]
The problem with "vote no" is all the times the props are deliberately worded to evoke a no response that is actually a yes to something awful.
My version of a default "Vote No on everything" stance has been "Vote No on any measure that changes the status quo".
This is mainly because I believer there are very few issues that wouldn't be better achieved through the legislative process rather than a populist vote campaign.
posted by madajb at 11:59 AM on September 25, 2020
My version of a default "Vote No on everything" stance has been "Vote No on any measure that changes the status quo".
This is mainly because I believer there are very few issues that wouldn't be better achieved through the legislative process rather than a populist vote campaign.
posted by madajb at 11:59 AM on September 25, 2020
I'm deeply conflicted about Prop13.
A plea to the California voter: don't be conflicted.
[...]what little money I've been able to save over the years towards buying a condo or something for myself is now earmarked for inheritance taxes.
What inheritance taxes? The untaxed estate tax cutoff is $11.18 million, and California has no inheritance tax. If the property and estate in question exceeds this limit, I'd question whether this situation deserves sympathy.
On preview, The_Vegetables has it (though they quoted the older, smaller inheritance tax cutoff). Onerous property taxes are naturally balanced by the fact that the payer is sitting on a multimillion dollar asset. When the value of that asset is out of sync with its maintenance costs, we see distorting effects like families being disincentivized to downsize properties when children move out, job circumstances change, etc. The patchwork of legal carveouts which attempt to address these situations later are band-aids masking a fundamental problem.
Smarter people than me have written about why Prop 13 is disastrous legislation, massively transferring wealth from young to old (and from renters to property holders), artificially increasing real estate prices, and providing perverse incentives that ossify the market. Yes, it is difficult to vote against your own interests if you're in this position -- but please consider doing so. If you are not in this position, don't be fooled into thinking that preserving Prop 13 is in the best interests of you or or community.
posted by Expecto Cilantro at 12:00 PM on September 25, 2020 [12 favorites]
A plea to the California voter: don't be conflicted.
[...]what little money I've been able to save over the years towards buying a condo or something for myself is now earmarked for inheritance taxes.
What inheritance taxes? The untaxed estate tax cutoff is $11.18 million, and California has no inheritance tax. If the property and estate in question exceeds this limit, I'd question whether this situation deserves sympathy.
On preview, The_Vegetables has it (though they quoted the older, smaller inheritance tax cutoff). Onerous property taxes are naturally balanced by the fact that the payer is sitting on a multimillion dollar asset. When the value of that asset is out of sync with its maintenance costs, we see distorting effects like families being disincentivized to downsize properties when children move out, job circumstances change, etc. The patchwork of legal carveouts which attempt to address these situations later are band-aids masking a fundamental problem.
Smarter people than me have written about why Prop 13 is disastrous legislation, massively transferring wealth from young to old (and from renters to property holders), artificially increasing real estate prices, and providing perverse incentives that ossify the market. Yes, it is difficult to vote against your own interests if you're in this position -- but please consider doing so. If you are not in this position, don't be fooled into thinking that preserving Prop 13 is in the best interests of you or or community.
posted by Expecto Cilantro at 12:00 PM on September 25, 2020 [12 favorites]
Does anyone know why Kaiser opted to weigh in for 1.5 million on Prop 16? It doesn't seem like changing college admissions or government office hiring would be a debate that they'd naturally take a side on, and a lazy Google doesn't turn up something immediately obvious.
posted by tautological at 12:33 PM on September 25, 2020
posted by tautological at 12:33 PM on September 25, 2020
Kaiser's statement on Prop 16.
Basically, they are saying it will help with diversity and inclusion efforts in healthcare, which makes sense to me.
posted by thefoxgod at 1:00 PM on September 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
Basically, they are saying it will help with diversity and inclusion efforts in healthcare, which makes sense to me.
posted by thefoxgod at 1:00 PM on September 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
Prop 16 seeks to overturn 1996's Prop 209. Kaiser's stance back then: Days before the bitter campaign over Proposition 209 drew to a close, Kaiser Permanente wrote to its California employees strongly backing affirmative action but refusing to take a position on the measure because the issue was "highly emotional" and "highly partisan."
If corporations can be people now, and people can feel shame...
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:06 PM on September 25, 2020 [3 favorites]
If corporations can be people now, and people can feel shame...
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:06 PM on September 25, 2020 [3 favorites]
I would like to know why we have to keep voting on kidney dialysis clinics every election.
posted by toastyk at 1:11 PM on September 25, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by toastyk at 1:11 PM on September 25, 2020 [6 favorites]
Regarding Prop 22, They mention at the end ...
"If this proposition passes, any amendments would require a 7/8 supermajority — a longshot in the Legislature."
I'm not sure why that requirement for a 7/8 supermajority to amend in the future doesn't get more press. It seems absurd regardless of whatever the proposition states. Even a great proposition might need some future adjustments.
posted by Hicksu at 1:40 PM on September 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
"If this proposition passes, any amendments would require a 7/8 supermajority — a longshot in the Legislature."
I'm not sure why that requirement for a 7/8 supermajority to amend in the future doesn't get more press. It seems absurd regardless of whatever the proposition states. Even a great proposition might need some future adjustments.
posted by Hicksu at 1:40 PM on September 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
Argh, why is the list of propositions represented with wholly unhelpful icons? What's wrong with text?? I really hate it when some graphic designer gets a bee in their bonnet about text making things look cluttered 'cause it leads to usability nightmares like this where everything is mystery meat until I click on it.
Also, thanks to whoever posted that Progressive Voter's Guide, which I'll read instead because they use text.
posted by Aleyn at 1:54 PM on September 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also, thanks to whoever posted that Progressive Voter's Guide, which I'll read instead because they use text.
posted by Aleyn at 1:54 PM on September 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
Thanks, mogget! It seems likely I knew that at one point, but it clearly didn't sink in.
-There are no inheritance taxes in CA (unless something has changed recently), and federal estate taxes are on individual inheritance greater than $5m. If it got re-asssessed to as high as $2m, then yearly property taxes would be in the $25k range, which is high but is 1.25% of $2m, which would leave you with like 3X the current median coastal CA home price to buy a home.
-
What inheritance taxes? The untaxed estate tax cutoff is $11.18 million, and California has no inheritance tax. If the property and estate in question exceeds this limit, I'd question whether this situation deserves sympathy.
-
Without doxxing myself too much, there is still hopefully at least a decade, likely more, until this happens. My earning potential and subsequent income will never reach that of my family's (my highest yearly income in the last 15 years was $22k), and who knows what will happen with the tax laws in the intervening years. The way property values in the neighborhood have been going, it's not unthinkable that it could hit 1.5 or 2m in the intervening years. (For a sense of scale, it's a 1500sqf 2br/2ba built in 1940 in the LA county suburbs, on a street with larger homes on bigger lots selling for >1m, which is inflating the value undeservedly.)
No one, not one of us knows for certain what the inheritance tax might look like in 2040. I don't think it's unreasonable to prepare for the worst case scenario, which would be happening on top of an event (losing my dad and being the last one standing) I'm not sure I can survive in the first place (for other Reasons.)
I didn't post this looking for sympathy, and my ignorance of the current tax law laid bare certainly makes me feel like a jackass. I apologize for speaking out-of-turn, and sincerely appreciate the education.
posted by ApathyGirl at 2:13 PM on September 25, 2020 [2 favorites]
-There are no inheritance taxes in CA (unless something has changed recently), and federal estate taxes are on individual inheritance greater than $5m. If it got re-asssessed to as high as $2m, then yearly property taxes would be in the $25k range, which is high but is 1.25% of $2m, which would leave you with like 3X the current median coastal CA home price to buy a home.
-
What inheritance taxes? The untaxed estate tax cutoff is $11.18 million, and California has no inheritance tax. If the property and estate in question exceeds this limit, I'd question whether this situation deserves sympathy.
-
Without doxxing myself too much, there is still hopefully at least a decade, likely more, until this happens. My earning potential and subsequent income will never reach that of my family's (my highest yearly income in the last 15 years was $22k), and who knows what will happen with the tax laws in the intervening years. The way property values in the neighborhood have been going, it's not unthinkable that it could hit 1.5 or 2m in the intervening years. (For a sense of scale, it's a 1500sqf 2br/2ba built in 1940 in the LA county suburbs, on a street with larger homes on bigger lots selling for >1m, which is inflating the value undeservedly.)
No one, not one of us knows for certain what the inheritance tax might look like in 2040. I don't think it's unreasonable to prepare for the worst case scenario, which would be happening on top of an event (losing my dad and being the last one standing) I'm not sure I can survive in the first place (for other Reasons.)
I didn't post this looking for sympathy, and my ignorance of the current tax law laid bare certainly makes me feel like a jackass. I apologize for speaking out-of-turn, and sincerely appreciate the education.
posted by ApathyGirl at 2:13 PM on September 25, 2020 [2 favorites]
I didn't post this looking for sympathy, and my ignorance of the current tax law laid bare certainly makes me feel like a jackass. I apologize for speaking out-of-turn, and sincerely appreciate the education.
I don't think it you were out of turn or a jackass, and I apologize for probably coming off harshly in my first comment. The stance that you had in your comment seems to be pretty commonly held; I think if anything, it shows how much misinformation and misunderstanding there is surrounding the real-world effects of Prop 13.
posted by Expecto Cilantro at 3:27 PM on September 25, 2020 [4 favorites]
I don't think it you were out of turn or a jackass, and I apologize for probably coming off harshly in my first comment. The stance that you had in your comment seems to be pretty commonly held; I think if anything, it shows how much misinformation and misunderstanding there is surrounding the real-world effects of Prop 13.
posted by Expecto Cilantro at 3:27 PM on September 25, 2020 [4 favorites]
I think ballot props and other forms of direct democracy, while sometimes problematic, are a nice check on gerrymandering and other corrupt ways of consolidating power.
And that's in part intention. California's ballot initative process was added in the Progressive Era.
posted by gryftir at 6:28 PM on September 25, 2020
And that's in part intention. California's ballot initative process was added in the Progressive Era.
posted by gryftir at 6:28 PM on September 25, 2020
Well, I just looked at all of these websites for all of the props that I previously looked at and had no idea how to vote on. I confess that these websites were no help at all as for helping me to decide yes or no and I was just as confused as I was before.
Seriously, the kidney thing?! I, an idiot random voter with no medical experience, should be the one deciding whether or not a doctor is necessary to have on staff for dialysis vs. being told I will bankrupt clinics if I do so?!? I cannot for the life of me figure out which is best or right. As an idiot, I of course think "it sounds bad to not have a doctor around," but then being told I will bankrupt clinics and people might not get their help/die if I vote yes for a doctor, but uh.... God, I DONT KNOW. It's some kind of battle I don't understand.
I'd be fine with getting rid of bail, but trusting to an algorithm also sounds incredibly dicey.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:39 PM on September 25, 2020
Seriously, the kidney thing?! I, an idiot random voter with no medical experience, should be the one deciding whether or not a doctor is necessary to have on staff for dialysis vs. being told I will bankrupt clinics if I do so?!? I cannot for the life of me figure out which is best or right. As an idiot, I of course think "it sounds bad to not have a doctor around," but then being told I will bankrupt clinics and people might not get their help/die if I vote yes for a doctor, but uh.... God, I DONT KNOW. It's some kind of battle I don't understand.
I'd be fine with getting rid of bail, but trusting to an algorithm also sounds incredibly dicey.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:39 PM on September 25, 2020
This sums up the kidney thing for me.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:51 PM on September 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:51 PM on September 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I have a similar flip-flop. It does seem good to have a doctor on premises, but then I remember the recent (attempts at) laws that required something similar of abortion clinics, and how that was a bad idea. I mean, in over 10 years of being aware of Davita, a dialysis provider where a friend worked, I have never heard in the news of anything going wrong with strip-mall dialysis. It may simply be a solved problem, more or less.
posted by rhizome at 12:53 AM on September 26, 2020
posted by rhizome at 12:53 AM on September 26, 2020
This sums up the kidney thing for me.
Yikes, clear as mud. Now I'm confused again.
posted by rhizome at 12:55 AM on September 26, 2020 [2 favorites]
Yikes, clear as mud. Now I'm confused again.
posted by rhizome at 12:55 AM on September 26, 2020 [2 favorites]
Does anyone have any advice on how you choose judges? Especially in the Bay Area, the choice is often between two fairly progressive liberals, and the endorsements are from similar-sounding liberal groups and unions.
posted by toastyk at 8:11 AM on September 26, 2020
posted by toastyk at 8:11 AM on September 26, 2020
My usual advice for races where you can't tell the difference policy-wise, either because they appear the same-ish or there's no easy info, is to just vote for people presenting as women, or for people whose appearance or names appear Black to you (or other ethnic minorities), or for people who appear queer to you (or who you happen to know are). Or whatever other representational concerns make sense to you.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:35 AM on September 26, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:35 AM on September 26, 2020 [3 favorites]
Thanks for the PeteRates link, feckless. I remember seeing him every election year when I'm doing my research but it always slipped my mind. He's been really helpful in helping me make sense of things.
That reminded me - there's another guy who decided to make haikus out of the propositions.
posted by toastyk at 10:01 AM on September 26, 2020
That reminded me - there's another guy who decided to make haikus out of the propositions.
posted by toastyk at 10:01 AM on September 26, 2020
Yeah, I have a similar flip-flop. It does seem good to have a doctor on premises, but then I remember the recent (attempts at) laws that required something similar of abortion clinics
I thought of this comparison but I though the union (of the people who work at the clinics) supports the proposition?
posted by atoxyl at 12:58 PM on September 26, 2020
I thought of this comparison but I though the union (of the people who work at the clinics) supports the proposition?
posted by atoxyl at 12:58 PM on September 26, 2020
I just have a friend who's smart AF about politics and whose views highly overlap mine and do what she tells me.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:17 PM on September 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 2:17 PM on September 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also, WTF is up with the CA NAACP? I was wondering why their endorsements were so obviously right-wing; as it turns out...they're getting paid by corporations.
posted by toastyk at 10:16 PM on September 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by toastyk at 10:16 PM on September 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
(This may also be because I am living in NYS where, prior to the last year or two, I have sometimes felt like I am living in a bizarro blue state with red state-style voter restrictions, but that's another story.)
I also moved from California to New York, and really felt like I had returned to the dark ages when I cast my first ballot here. Where was the voter guide? Where could I learn about the pros and cons of the (infrequent) ballot measures? The whole election system betrays the obvious effects of decades of machine politics, and voters are clearly an afterthought. (This has started to slowly improve in the last few years, thankfully, as the state legislature has become dominated by a single party.)
At the same time, I have pretty mixed feelings about the Californian system. Prop 13 is the most obvious argument against it, of course, but even when I tried my best to do my due diligence about the selection of 15-20 propositions in a given year, I would often think that I was probably not the right person to entrust with making decisions about (say) some arcane provision of insurance law, and neither were the vast majority of voters in the state.
The system is also set up so that making an end-run around the legislature seems like a worthwhile bet to many parties who are looking to change the law in ways that benefit themselves; if you only have to spend a few million dollars on a signature-gathering effort and a few million more on a deceptive advertising campaign, but the resulting change will save you hundreds of million dollars through tax changes or deregulation, you might as well give it a shot.
posted by whir at 8:55 AM on September 28, 2020
I also moved from California to New York, and really felt like I had returned to the dark ages when I cast my first ballot here. Where was the voter guide? Where could I learn about the pros and cons of the (infrequent) ballot measures? The whole election system betrays the obvious effects of decades of machine politics, and voters are clearly an afterthought. (This has started to slowly improve in the last few years, thankfully, as the state legislature has become dominated by a single party.)
At the same time, I have pretty mixed feelings about the Californian system. Prop 13 is the most obvious argument against it, of course, but even when I tried my best to do my due diligence about the selection of 15-20 propositions in a given year, I would often think that I was probably not the right person to entrust with making decisions about (say) some arcane provision of insurance law, and neither were the vast majority of voters in the state.
The system is also set up so that making an end-run around the legislature seems like a worthwhile bet to many parties who are looking to change the law in ways that benefit themselves; if you only have to spend a few million dollars on a signature-gathering effort and a few million more on a deceptive advertising campaign, but the resulting change will save you hundreds of million dollars through tax changes or deregulation, you might as well give it a shot.
posted by whir at 8:55 AM on September 28, 2020
For anyone interested, CalMatters is holding Q&As with subject matter experts on the propositions over the next month. Topics will be based on questions and comments submitted. (I do not work for or get paid by CalMatters, I just like them as a source for CA news.)
posted by toastyk at 10:49 AM on September 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by toastyk at 10:49 AM on September 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by BuddhaInABucket at 9:26 AM on September 25, 2020 [4 favorites]