I’m thinking about it, and I’m telling you.

December 10, 2021 3:15 AM

CW: Suicide/suicidal ideation
Actor, comic and presenter Joe Tracini is thinking of killing himself. He doesn't want to, and he's telling us about it on Twitter so he can't. He's funny, kind and incisive, whether showing what BPD is like for him, protecting himself and others from suicide, writing songs about his erectile dysfunction, or providing insightful sports commentary. All links except the last contain references to suicide and suicidal ideation.
posted by howfar (9 comments total)

I've been thinking about killing myself recently. I think lots of us have. Talk of "it being hard for everyone at the moment" misses the fact that we each came into this terrible time with unique struggles, and each person's suffering has been compounded or changed in unique ways. It's harder for some people than others.

Facing down the things trying to kill us is something we can only do ourselves. But we don't always have to do it alone. If you want to tell someone, feel free to memail me. I can probably only hear you, as you have done for me, but if that might help I'd be happy to do it.
posted by howfar at 3:51 AM on December 10, 2021 [31 favorites]

There is help
posted by chavenet at 6:31 AM on December 10, 2021 [3 favorites]

I've had issues with suicidal ideation in the past. I've managed to get through it by mentally linking suicidal ideation to my flight or fight response, so I tense up and get real scared when I recognise it, as if someone has pointed a gun at me. In a way, I have, haven't I.

What I recognise now is that the survival instinct is a base level of wiring, core to my sense of functioning. If something is interfering with it, if I'm having suicidal ideations, I can be confident that my thought processes are under attack by hostile forces. My thoughts are not correct, they are not valid, they are not trustworthy.
posted by Merus at 4:20 AM on December 11, 2021 [2 favorites]

I am not always very attached to being alive
“Chronic, passive suicidal ideation is like living in the ocean. Let’s start talking about how to tread water.”

I read this, linked from Metafilter (thanks robbyrobs!) in 2019; it changed my life, and just in time for 2020. I am very lucky. With therapy and tweaks to meds, intrusive thoughts are now noticeable to me mainly in their absence, like voids once filled with violent imagery, and my ocean feels much brighter.

Stay safe everyone! I am also here to listen or talk if you need.
posted by soy bean at 5:02 AM on December 11, 2021 [4 favorites]

Hypothetically there is a certain point in my life where severe isolation, chronic pain, and insomnia will mean that the vast majority of the rest of my life will consist of coping with suffering. I realize ending my life prematurely is cruel to the handful of survivors who will notice my passing but at what point is that passing cruelty outweighed by the prospect of me living out years of an empty and painful existence. This is not a cry for help, I try to filter out my emotional state as much as possible when considering these issues. I just don't feel like there's anywhere else I can safely discuss these issues without dumping a potentially massive pile of guilt on anyone who knows me personally.
posted by viborg at 10:36 AM on December 11, 2021 [1 favorite]

Soy bean thanks for the link, I really like the treading water metaphor. This is quite a succinct statement of the specific issues as well:

“Research on people who endure passive suicidal ideation is limited by this innate stigma that it’s a bad, wrong thing, so people are less likely to report it,” said Eric Beeson, licensed counselor and faculty member at Northwestern University's Counseling@Northwestern whose research includes attitudes about suicide. Without self-reports, and in the absence of the hospital visits or attempts that help us track active ideation, it’s nearly impossible to measure.

I will say some of their claims are a bit iffy, and the main value for me was in commiseration. I'm not sure "maybe ketamine will help" is the kind of suggestion that is really practical for most people.
posted by viborg at 10:45 AM on December 11, 2021

I will say some of their claims are a bit iffy, and the main value for me was in commiseration. I'm not sure "maybe ketamine will help" is the kind of suggestion that is really practical for most people.

Oh yeah, I agree, and probably ‘changed my life” hypes it up a bit too much in the wrong direction. For context, I had never heard the term ‘passive suicidal ideation’ before, or even really considered that other people might not be living with these kinds of thoughts/mindset. Reading that piece snapped a lot into focus for me, but I likely glossed over a lot of the more iffy things as I was kind of stunned by the feeling of being so seen. Thanks for flagging that!
posted by soy bean at 11:52 AM on December 11, 2021

Also much love to you viborg. I totally get the worries about dumping guilt on people, but also I encourage you to talk to someone, maybe even with someone you know. In my experience it has really helped.
posted by soy bean at 12:08 PM on December 11, 2021

I say this with caution, because it will vary between individuals, but it seems to me that the recognition that suicide can, in some circumstances, be a rational and reasonable act: can be, in the medical jargon, a "protective factor".

First: because the guilt commonly associated with contemplating suicide can exacerbate the misery that leads to it, and also make the issues harder to talk about, especially with those close to us. Feeling so bad, hopeless or helpless that you might end your life is hard enough without feeling like you're a bad person because of it.

Second: because identifying the circumstances in which suicide could be an appropriate choice may help clarify that, for the vast majority of us, those circumstances do not apply, at the very least not yet. This can be a tool in identifying ways of managing and reducing suffering, and potentially more radical ways of addressing it that do not involve dying.

It seems to me (notwithstanding the thoughts I have sometimes, and have had more frequently recently) that suicide is, nearly always*, a worse option than the alternatives. But our taboos about it seem more a tool of social control than of compassionate support in suffering, and the idea that we can prevent suicide by stigmatising it seems bleakly grotesque. Expecting people to live in misery isn't the answer: giving everyone the tools and support we need to avoid or address that misery is.

I'm not a believer in sharing every moment of pain with those who love us. I've known too many people who seem compelled to vicariously indulging in the pain of others, or forcing others to share their pain beyond what is reasonable and useful. But a person thinking of suicide is, almost inevitably, going to need the insight of others to reach a responsible decision about what to do. All emotional states shape perception and cognition, and extreme emotional states do this in extreme ways. If I won millions on the lottery†, or fell head over heels in love, it wouldn't be a good idea to make major life decisions without some sort of outside input. It seems important to at least check in with someone when considering major decisions in times of turbulence.

I guess some of this comes down to a distinction between what is termed a "cry for help" and asking for help. Both are reasonable things to do in circumstances of peril or suffering, but understanding that they are different things can lower the barrier to getting the right help, at the right time, in the right way.

Thanks to you all for your thoughts on this. Hearing others considered and compassionate thoughts on the subject is useful to me.

* noting that I think the question of assisted dying for terminally ill people is outside of the scope of "suicide" as commonly understood.

† which would, I admit, be more likely if I played it.
posted by howfar at 12:22 AM on December 12, 2021