Forbes Discovers DMT
March 22, 2022 8:01 AM Subscribe
5-MeO-DMT: The 20-Minute Psychoactive Toad Experience That’s Transforming Lives "Since 2018, when Pollan first burst through the glass ceiling of legitimate psychedelic use with his influential book How To Change Your Mind, the idea of cognitive freedom had suddenly inched up to the forefront of the American conversation on mental health. Employing an erudite, mainstream viewpoint on mind-altering drugs, the then 62-year-old straight-edge author from Long Island — who taught at Harvard and Berkeley and penned bestselling books about the clean food movement — lent a credible air to the use of these magic molecules, including LSD, DMT and psilocybin." No word on the connection between DMT and Shpongle.
How can you write an article that says: "So when an email landed in my inbox with the subject line 'I’m a Facilitator of 5-MeO-DMT / Toad,' it was an irresistible invitation to slide down the rabbit hole"...and then proceed to *not* smoke the toad and write about it?? What a waste, anticlimactic! Smoke the toad coward!!
posted by windbox at 8:12 AM on March 22, 2022 [22 favorites]
posted by windbox at 8:12 AM on March 22, 2022 [22 favorites]
ctrl-f for 'Dr Martin Ball' - no results
phew
posted by FatherDagon at 8:20 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
phew
posted by FatherDagon at 8:20 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
There has to have been a 1960s band named "The 20-Minute Psychoactive Toad Experience". Didn't they play the Fillmore East with Moby Grape?
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 8:20 AM on March 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 8:20 AM on March 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
The tryptamine family of molecules wants you to know that they love you, and they wish you'd visit more often.
posted by aramaic at 8:24 AM on March 22, 2022 [21 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 8:24 AM on March 22, 2022 [21 favorites]
5MeODMT. AKA 5 Methyl-oxy-DMT.
I'm very puzzled. This drug was touted long before anything about toads, and the endangerment of their species. I LOVE toads! How can someone deliberately kill such an awesome, responsible, hard-working critter?
Some of us have expanded long since. Some of those, could benefit from some better info. Consciousness, well expanded, is a VAST landscape. Where is the stuff that helps?
Yea, it's easier to access such areas of the mind with the help of substances. But, once a person trips, it shouldn't be that difficult to guide them to the right places, without further hallucinogens.
posted by Goofyy at 8:37 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm very puzzled. This drug was touted long before anything about toads, and the endangerment of their species. I LOVE toads! How can someone deliberately kill such an awesome, responsible, hard-working critter?
Some of us have expanded long since. Some of those, could benefit from some better info. Consciousness, well expanded, is a VAST landscape. Where is the stuff that helps?
Yea, it's easier to access such areas of the mind with the help of substances. But, once a person trips, it shouldn't be that difficult to guide them to the right places, without further hallucinogens.
posted by Goofyy at 8:37 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Forbes has a thing where they post just whatever someone wants them to post which is broadly used for reputational laundering in e.g. cryptocurrency scams. I imagine this article comes from that part of Forbes.
posted by chrchr at 8:57 AM on March 22, 2022 [25 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 8:57 AM on March 22, 2022 [25 favorites]
I understand what the color white feels like as an emotion thanks to 5Meo DMT.
posted by Uncle at 9:06 AM on March 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Uncle at 9:06 AM on March 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
MetaFilter: Smoke the toad coward!!
posted by elkevelvet at 9:21 AM on March 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 9:21 AM on March 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
I agree with Goofyy -- I firmly support research in psychoactive therapies and believe our future could be brighter if those in power had their egos blasted and disassembled by heavy psychedelic experiences.
That said, are you really 'expanding your consciousness' by participating in the destruction of another species? It smells of myopic consumerism for an experience you can flout. Haven't we learnt anything?
There are so many plants, fungi, and synthetics that will turn your world inside-out and burn your ideas up in front of you.
posted by kmkrebs at 9:35 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
That said, are you really 'expanding your consciousness' by participating in the destruction of another species? It smells of myopic consumerism for an experience you can flout. Haven't we learnt anything?
There are so many plants, fungi, and synthetics that will turn your world inside-out and burn your ideas up in front of you.
posted by kmkrebs at 9:35 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well, thankfully, in the article they mention that
"In an effort to help preserve threatened Bufo alvarius populations, Lee is now solely serving synthetic versions of the substance."
So at least this facilitator is not contributing to the death of the toads.
posted by FritoKAL at 9:44 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
"In an effort to help preserve threatened Bufo alvarius populations, Lee is now solely serving synthetic versions of the substance."
So at least this facilitator is not contributing to the death of the toads.
posted by FritoKAL at 9:44 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
This drug was touted long before anything about toads
I mean, the use of the toad for psychoactive effect long predates the isolation of the drug, and has long been lore associated with the isolated drug. But the framing of this article around the toad is kind of a mess. It’s not a hard drug to synthesize, one used to (?) be able to buy it online on the grey market. Incessantly referring to it in terms of toads seems like basically the same commodification of indigenous mysticism as people who must try ayahuasca rather than DMT (although, yes, in both cases I imagine there is some difference in experience with the “original recipe.”)
Although I’m also wondering if the use of actual toads is for legal plausible deniability. Like one can’t buy mescaline or preparations of peyote, but one can (ssshhh) buy preparations of less infamous mescaline-containing cacti.
posted by atoxyl at 9:56 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I mean, the use of the toad for psychoactive effect long predates the isolation of the drug, and has long been lore associated with the isolated drug. But the framing of this article around the toad is kind of a mess. It’s not a hard drug to synthesize, one used to (?) be able to buy it online on the grey market. Incessantly referring to it in terms of toads seems like basically the same commodification of indigenous mysticism as people who must try ayahuasca rather than DMT (although, yes, in both cases I imagine there is some difference in experience with the “original recipe.”)
Although I’m also wondering if the use of actual toads is for legal plausible deniability. Like one can’t buy mescaline or preparations of peyote, but one can (ssshhh) buy preparations of less infamous mescaline-containing cacti.
posted by atoxyl at 9:56 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I didn't read the article but I havent heard of anyone seriously harming the toad in order to milk the venom for smoking. People who are into this are also pretty conscious of the toad welfare I think.
And the synthetic version can be made in home environment with the right supplies. I have a friend who was in a cult in the early 80s where they made 5Meo and smoked it daily.
posted by Liquidwolf at 10:03 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
And the synthetic version can be made in home environment with the right supplies. I have a friend who was in a cult in the early 80s where they made 5Meo and smoked it daily.
posted by Liquidwolf at 10:03 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
I reject the need for a twenty minute psychedelic experience anyway. What's the f***ing hurry? If you haven't got a day (or at least a substantial chunk of one) to invest in expanding and exploring yrrr vast-to-the-point-of-infinite beyond within, I submit that you're doing it wrong.
posted by philip-random at 10:04 AM on March 22, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 10:04 AM on March 22, 2022 [9 favorites]
I reject the need for a twenty minute psychedelic experience anyway. What's the f***ing hurry? If you haven't got a day (or at least a substantial chunk of one) to invest in expanding and exploring yrrr vast-to-the-point-of-infinite beyond within, I submit that you're doing it wrong.
It's the difference between sky diving and hang gliding. Plus more people have 20 mins to spare that 8-10 hours. I'm not saying I disagree with you though.
posted by Liquidwolf at 10:06 AM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
20 minutes seems short for this (I haven't tried it), but I DO see the appeal of "you won't be stuck in this unfamiliar mental state" as a selling point.
So not necessarily a hurry so much as a reassurance that it is temporary.
posted by Acari at 10:07 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
So not necessarily a hurry so much as a reassurance that it is temporary.
posted by Acari at 10:07 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
20 minutes seems short for this (I haven't tried it), but I DO see the appeal of "you won't be stuck in this unfamiliar mental state" as a selling point.
20 minutes means little by the clock in terms of the experience, you can live a lifetime in your experience of those 20 mins in an altered state, especially with tryptamines like this.
posted by Liquidwolf at 10:17 AM on March 22, 2022 [12 favorites]
I don't get the appeal of this at all. But if it works for you, hey, have fun!
posted by tommasz at 10:18 AM on March 22, 2022
posted by tommasz at 10:18 AM on March 22, 2022
20 minutes seems short for this (I haven't tried it)
If I recall correctly, most of that is the 15 minutes it takes just to get some kind of handle on sorting out what just happened during the initial onslaught. Which is very fast, very very intense, and for me at least was over way too soon.
I firmly believe that most of the complete nonsense people talk about their DMT experiences is constructed during that quarter hour, out of the shredded fragments of the Just So stories it's almost impossible to avoid telling oneself in an inevitable though futile attempt to recall what just happened and shoehorn it into the essentially sequential framework that ordinary experience hangs upon.
Absolutely extraordinary inner visuals, too, quite unlike those I've had with any other substance. No, I'm not going to try to describe them. At this remove I'd just be making shit up.
posted by flabdablet at 10:21 AM on March 22, 2022 [10 favorites]
If I recall correctly, most of that is the 15 minutes it takes just to get some kind of handle on sorting out what just happened during the initial onslaught. Which is very fast, very very intense, and for me at least was over way too soon.
I firmly believe that most of the complete nonsense people talk about their DMT experiences is constructed during that quarter hour, out of the shredded fragments of the Just So stories it's almost impossible to avoid telling oneself in an inevitable though futile attempt to recall what just happened and shoehorn it into the essentially sequential framework that ordinary experience hangs upon.
Absolutely extraordinary inner visuals, too, quite unlike those I've had with any other substance. No, I'm not going to try to describe them. At this remove I'd just be making shit up.
posted by flabdablet at 10:21 AM on March 22, 2022 [10 favorites]
Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia: The Psychedelic Toad does a pretty good job of talking about this.
posted by nikoniko at 10:28 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by nikoniko at 10:28 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Whoever has that email forward to me. Dead serious.
I grew up in the 80s drug panic, have no idea where to source these things or find a guide.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:29 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
I grew up in the 80s drug panic, have no idea where to source these things or find a guide.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:29 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
How can someone deliberately kill such an awesome, responsible, hard-working critter?
While the population is endangered, the production of 5-MeO DMT doesn't harm the actual toad producing the compound any more than milking a cow does (and if your personal ethics disagree with that too, that's fine and cool). While captivity is not ideal, it's not certain death for the frog. It's more an issue of, they live in a small ecological area, and are a stressed population already, adding pressures to the population like harvesting them out of their natural environment lowers their population more than would happen under 'natural' (but still human caused) pressures on their population.
Lots of plants produce this chemical however, and it is not necessarily difficult or dangerous to extract. The hardest part, and honestly most ambiguous is if the 5-MEO part of the equation makes any clinical difference in experience. The 5-MEO part of the molecule is a little difficult to synthesize, and isn't easily done with home equipment. But no concrete research has been done as to if this makes a difference in the end product as consumed by humans. It could; we don't know yet.
If you haven't got a day (or at least a substantial chunk of one) to invest in expanding and exploring yrrr vast-to-the-point-of-infinite beyond within, I submit that you're doing it wrong
I personally agree with you, but this is a value judgment (and a fine one to have), but it's not a value that everyone might have regarding these substances. If this is ever ends up being used in a routine clinical setting (not just a clinical trial), the argument can be made that DMT makes for a better option than LSD, Psilocybin, or Ketamine for that very reason. It has a short duration where someone needs to be observed for safety, and can have the same medium-term effects as those other drugs. There are plenty of folks out there who do not necessarily want, or need to experience the qualia of a full religious-type experience to benefit from the results of the neuroplastiscity that can persist for weeks and months after a any trip, regardless of length. Clinically, this could be a valuable tool (and cheaper than the prior options due to medical labor costs) to help people. Which is why the drug should be de-scheduled and much much much more research done. It is a potentially good tool, worth exploring.
There are several research tracks right now diving into ketamine-adjacent anti depressants that are actively trying to suppress the enthogenic properties of the drug; and some are showing early signs of success. So in those cases; there is no trip at all, but you still end up not-depressed, or having constant suicidal ideation. Even though it doesn't fit into your personal aspirations for self-exploration, it could still help people who are experiencing durable, long-lasting mental health issues, and reduce suffering.
posted by furnace.heart at 10:30 AM on March 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
While the population is endangered, the production of 5-MeO DMT doesn't harm the actual toad producing the compound any more than milking a cow does (and if your personal ethics disagree with that too, that's fine and cool). While captivity is not ideal, it's not certain death for the frog. It's more an issue of, they live in a small ecological area, and are a stressed population already, adding pressures to the population like harvesting them out of their natural environment lowers their population more than would happen under 'natural' (but still human caused) pressures on their population.
Lots of plants produce this chemical however, and it is not necessarily difficult or dangerous to extract. The hardest part, and honestly most ambiguous is if the 5-MEO part of the equation makes any clinical difference in experience. The 5-MEO part of the molecule is a little difficult to synthesize, and isn't easily done with home equipment. But no concrete research has been done as to if this makes a difference in the end product as consumed by humans. It could; we don't know yet.
If you haven't got a day (or at least a substantial chunk of one) to invest in expanding and exploring yrrr vast-to-the-point-of-infinite beyond within, I submit that you're doing it wrong
I personally agree with you, but this is a value judgment (and a fine one to have), but it's not a value that everyone might have regarding these substances. If this is ever ends up being used in a routine clinical setting (not just a clinical trial), the argument can be made that DMT makes for a better option than LSD, Psilocybin, or Ketamine for that very reason. It has a short duration where someone needs to be observed for safety, and can have the same medium-term effects as those other drugs. There are plenty of folks out there who do not necessarily want, or need to experience the qualia of a full religious-type experience to benefit from the results of the neuroplastiscity that can persist for weeks and months after a any trip, regardless of length. Clinically, this could be a valuable tool (and cheaper than the prior options due to medical labor costs) to help people. Which is why the drug should be de-scheduled and much much much more research done. It is a potentially good tool, worth exploring.
There are several research tracks right now diving into ketamine-adjacent anti depressants that are actively trying to suppress the enthogenic properties of the drug; and some are showing early signs of success. So in those cases; there is no trip at all, but you still end up not-depressed, or having constant suicidal ideation. Even though it doesn't fit into your personal aspirations for self-exploration, it could still help people who are experiencing durable, long-lasting mental health issues, and reduce suffering.
posted by furnace.heart at 10:30 AM on March 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
Also gotta admire the first guy who saw the toad and was like: all those other toads I licked did nothing so…
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:32 AM on March 22, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:32 AM on March 22, 2022 [17 favorites]
Heh. Back in college, we used to be able to buy this stuff online, more-or-less legally. Went a bit wild with it. Those were some times...
posted by panama joe at 10:32 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by panama joe at 10:32 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I’m a busy mom, need to trip on my lunch break, it’s called time management Jessica
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:37 AM on March 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:37 AM on March 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
One of the most interesting things about this particular substance was the apparent randomness of peoples' reactions. Some long-time psychedelic veterans hated the stuff. Random-assed drinking buddies would love it, couldn't get enough of it. It was weird.
Of course, we weren't being systematic about it at all — didn't have a good way to measure doses, would sometimes dose ourselves while still under the influence, etc. So that might account for some of the ... inconsistencies.
posted by panama joe at 10:41 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Of course, we weren't being systematic about it at all — didn't have a good way to measure doses, would sometimes dose ourselves while still under the influence, etc. So that might account for some of the ... inconsistencies.
posted by panama joe at 10:41 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
I reject the need for a twenty minute psychedelic experience anyway
There's a reason why it's also called, 'the businessman's trip"
posted by goalyeehah at 11:00 AM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
There's a reason why it's also called, 'the businessman's trip"
posted by goalyeehah at 11:00 AM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
There are several research tracks right now diving into ketamine-adjacent anti depressants that are actively trying to suppress the enthogenic properties of the drug
My immediate reaction to that is essentially the same thing Jorts said about a particularly complicated robot wheelchair.
posted by flabdablet at 11:01 AM on March 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
My immediate reaction to that is essentially the same thing Jorts said about a particularly complicated robot wheelchair.
posted by flabdablet at 11:01 AM on March 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
...the use of these magic molecules, including LSD, DMT and psilocybin.
"Nobody uses these enthogens anymore, they got too popular."
(with apologies to Yogi Berra)
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:19 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Nobody uses these enthogens anymore, they got too popular."
(with apologies to Yogi Berra)
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:19 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have a friend who for reasons thinks 5-MeO is trash and should not be promoted, not so much as a psychedelic as other issues. He has less issues with DMT.
I would well not kill for the above 3 entheos. I demand to be prescribed regularly and legally without fear of jail.
I just want Mushroom Lemonade a couple few times a year.
Maybe MDMA once every few years, and DMT on the bucket list. That's all.
posted by symbioid at 11:40 AM on March 22, 2022
I would well not kill for the above 3 entheos. I demand to be prescribed regularly and legally without fear of jail.
I just want Mushroom Lemonade a couple few times a year.
Maybe MDMA once every few years, and DMT on the bucket list. That's all.
posted by symbioid at 11:40 AM on March 22, 2022
You down with DMT? Yeah, you know me.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:12 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 1:12 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Focus on the creative, and not the destroyative"
-- Myself, in college, during a particularly heavy 5MEO-DMT session
posted by panama joe at 1:29 PM on March 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
-- Myself, in college, during a particularly heavy 5MEO-DMT session
posted by panama joe at 1:29 PM on March 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
I have a friend who for reasons thinks 5-MeO is trash and should not be promoted, not so much as a psychedelic as other issues.
I’m not sure what this means - toad conservation issues?
But of all of those this
MDMA once every few years
is the one I’ve sworn never to do again so individual results may vary.
(actually I never tried 5-MeO-DMT, though, just the “regular” kind)
posted by atoxyl at 1:39 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I’m not sure what this means - toad conservation issues?
But of all of those this
MDMA once every few years
is the one I’ve sworn never to do again so individual results may vary.
(actually I never tried 5-MeO-DMT, though, just the “regular” kind)
posted by atoxyl at 1:39 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Isnt Forbes kind of trash mag at this pt? is what I think most of you are getting on about?
posted by kfholy at 2:36 PM on March 22, 2022
posted by kfholy at 2:36 PM on March 22, 2022
The New Yorker also came out with an article on "smoking toad" this week: The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 3:25 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 3:25 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Isnt Forbes kind of trash mag at this pt?
This isn't Forbes the magazine. This is a pay-for-publication service called "Forbes sites". It's the same kind of thing as "TedX" talks as compared with real TED conferences.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 3:58 PM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
This isn't Forbes the magazine. This is a pay-for-publication service called "Forbes sites". It's the same kind of thing as "TedX" talks as compared with real TED conferences.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 3:58 PM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Meh, just give me some centipedes.
posted by zengargoyle at 4:07 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by zengargoyle at 4:07 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I still think Forbes is trash, re-legitimize it all you want. It's been trash since oh 99?
posted by kfholy at 4:45 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by kfholy at 4:45 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Paging Dr. Bob, Dr. Leary, Dr. Bob"
posted by clavdivs at 10:12 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 10:12 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I reject the need for a twenty minute psychedelic experience anyway.
But your boss won't. DMT and 5-MeO-DMT as psychedelic therapies have clearly got huge potential appeal to capital. Mental ill health is the largest source of lost productivity, but doing the things needed to make life non-corrosive all involve a more equitable distribution of goods, so naturally are unthinkable. What self-respecting CEO wouldn't want a quick fix for "broken" employees when the alternative is treating us like people? But even the most optimistic reports on other psychedelics indicate the need for multiple days of active treatment from a specialist practitioner and who's got time and the functioning healthcare system for that? Just get them up seeing God and back down in time for the 10:30am conference with Houston!
Or, as it is expressed in a more recent piece from the same site:
But your boss won't. DMT and 5-MeO-DMT as psychedelic therapies have clearly got huge potential appeal to capital. Mental ill health is the largest source of lost productivity, but doing the things needed to make life non-corrosive all involve a more equitable distribution of goods, so naturally are unthinkable. What self-respecting CEO wouldn't want a quick fix for "broken" employees when the alternative is treating us like people? But even the most optimistic reports on other psychedelics indicate the need for multiple days of active treatment from a specialist practitioner and who's got time and the functioning healthcare system for that? Just get them up seeing God and back down in time for the 10:30am conference with Houston!
Or, as it is expressed in a more recent piece from the same site:
Beckley Psytech CEO Cosmo Feilding-Mellen sees a potential in the short-acting nature of 5-MeO-DMT compared to psilocybin: “Requiring one or two therapists to sit in a room with a single patient for the entire duration of an MDMA or psilocybin experience, which is essentially a whole working day, is probably going to be very resource-intensive and expensive...[if we can show efficacy of synthetic 5-MeO-DMT] We could treat more patients, and the resource utilization and cost of treatment would be lower,” says Feilding-Mellen.posted by howfar at 3:50 AM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Support the Tucson Herpetological Society.
posted by The genius who rejected Anno's budget proposal. at 6:23 AM on March 23, 2022
posted by The genius who rejected Anno's budget proposal. at 6:23 AM on March 23, 2022
"Focus on the creative, and not the destroyative"
I believe it was "Focus on the creatitive, not the destroyative."
This was definitely the soundtrack though.
posted by schyler523 at 6:38 AM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
I believe it was "Focus on the creatitive, not the destroyative."
This was definitely the soundtrack though.
posted by schyler523 at 6:38 AM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Please don't refer to 5-MeO-DMT as "DMT". They are very different.
Please don't refer to 5-MeO-DMT as "5-MeO". There are many different 5-methoxy tryptamines, and the one that became famous in the homosexual subculture of Japan as "Gomeo" ("go" is Japanese for "five") was 5-MeO-DiPT, better known in the Anglosphere as "Foxy Methoxy".
Please don't milk toads to get your 5-MeO-DMT, make it from melatonin via mexamine.
posted by The genius who rejected Anno's budget proposal. at 8:12 AM on March 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
Please don't refer to 5-MeO-DMT as "5-MeO". There are many different 5-methoxy tryptamines, and the one that became famous in the homosexual subculture of Japan as "Gomeo" ("go" is Japanese for "five") was 5-MeO-DiPT, better known in the Anglosphere as "Foxy Methoxy".
Please don't milk toads to get your 5-MeO-DMT, make it from melatonin via mexamine.
posted by The genius who rejected Anno's budget proposal. at 8:12 AM on March 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
This was definitely the soundtrack though.
All in the name of research...
posted by panama joe at 8:49 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
All in the name of research...
posted by panama joe at 8:49 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've known people personally who had extremely difficult experiences from 5-MeO-DMT, especially the synthetic form (which can be very potent at dosages of less than 10 mg). I'm talking about the kind of thing that causes severe PTSD-like symptoms. Please be careful.
posted by mikeand1 at 2:17 PM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mikeand1 at 2:17 PM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I reject the need for a twenty minute psychedelic experience anyway.
Well, have you experienced it? Words can't really explain it adequately, but for lack of a better description, these are experiences that can exist "outside of time", or for which time is a meaningless concept. If that doesn't make sense, think of it as an experience that could feel like it lasts an eternity.
Suffice it to say, nobody should approach the experience thinking, "Oh, it's only 20 minutes." It could be the longest and most impactful 20 minutes of your life.
posted by mikeand1 at 2:27 PM on March 23, 2022
Well, have you experienced it? Words can't really explain it adequately, but for lack of a better description, these are experiences that can exist "outside of time", or for which time is a meaningless concept. If that doesn't make sense, think of it as an experience that could feel like it lasts an eternity.
Suffice it to say, nobody should approach the experience thinking, "Oh, it's only 20 minutes." It could be the longest and most impactful 20 minutes of your life.
posted by mikeand1 at 2:27 PM on March 23, 2022
I reject the need for a twenty minute psychedelic experience anyway.
Well, have you experienced it?
yes.
although it did come very much at the end of my psychedelic adventures, so maybe I was bound to feel a negative in the explosive velocity of it all. Rather like a top fuel dragster taking a straight line quarter mile run versus an Formula 1 two hundred mile outing full of twists and turns and various dramas and ebbs and flows of adrenaline.
these are experiences that can exist "outside of time", or for which time is a meaningless concept.
the most profound version of this I've ever had involved strong LSD and, when the moment was right, a pretty much limitless supply of nitrous oxide. That put my breathing in the driver's seat. It's a long, long story. It probably only went on for a half hour or so. I'm told that strange perhaps alien entities were witnessed in the vicinity. My focus was elsewhere.
posted by philip-random at 4:13 PM on March 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
Well, have you experienced it?
yes.
although it did come very much at the end of my psychedelic adventures, so maybe I was bound to feel a negative in the explosive velocity of it all. Rather like a top fuel dragster taking a straight line quarter mile run versus an Formula 1 two hundred mile outing full of twists and turns and various dramas and ebbs and flows of adrenaline.
these are experiences that can exist "outside of time", or for which time is a meaningless concept.
the most profound version of this I've ever had involved strong LSD and, when the moment was right, a pretty much limitless supply of nitrous oxide. That put my breathing in the driver's seat. It's a long, long story. It probably only went on for a half hour or so. I'm told that strange perhaps alien entities were witnessed in the vicinity. My focus was elsewhere.
posted by philip-random at 4:13 PM on March 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
howfar
posted by The genius who rejected Anno's budget proposal. at 5:28 PM on March 23, 2022
DMT and 5-MeO-DMT as psychedelic therapies have clearly got huge potential appeal to capital.Unfortunately, demonstrating appeal to capital is just about the only realistic way I can think of to get the Powers That Be to maybe stop putting human beings into cages for making or purchasing or possessing these substances.
posted by The genius who rejected Anno's budget proposal. at 5:28 PM on March 23, 2022
Since 2018?
R U Sirius?
(and of course Shulgin, Leary, Watts, Alpert/Ram Dass, etc)
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:39 PM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
R U Sirius?
(and of course Shulgin, Leary, Watts, Alpert/Ram Dass, etc)
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:39 PM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, demonstrating appeal to capital is just about the only realistic way I can think of to get the Powers That Be to maybe stop putting human beings into cages for making or purchasing or possessing these substances.
Absolutely, although I don't see medicalisation as a route to decriminalisation or legalisation. There are lots of medically used drugs that it is a crime to possess without authority. I think liberalisation of recreational drug laws is being driven by other market dominated forces. I see this as being more about the problem of innovation under capitalism. In the vast majority of science, tech and engineering fields the pressures on choice of research topic are overwhelmingly defined by the perceived interests of capital, which are unbelievably short-term in nature. As a result it's only by chance that anybody gets an opportunity to do research of long-term value. This would probably be an example of that, but it may well not be the best line of research to pursue. In a world of limited resources, it feels like capitalism is an increasingly excessive impediment to progress.
posted by howfar at 12:22 PM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Absolutely, although I don't see medicalisation as a route to decriminalisation or legalisation. There are lots of medically used drugs that it is a crime to possess without authority. I think liberalisation of recreational drug laws is being driven by other market dominated forces. I see this as being more about the problem of innovation under capitalism. In the vast majority of science, tech and engineering fields the pressures on choice of research topic are overwhelmingly defined by the perceived interests of capital, which are unbelievably short-term in nature. As a result it's only by chance that anybody gets an opportunity to do research of long-term value. This would probably be an example of that, but it may well not be the best line of research to pursue. In a world of limited resources, it feels like capitalism is an increasingly excessive impediment to progress.
posted by howfar at 12:22 PM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by geoff. at 8:05 AM on March 22, 2022