In Iran, a florist turned her living room into a flower shop.
March 23, 2022 9:47 AM Subscribe
Revisiting Work From Home. In March of 2021, Rest of World profiled nine workers. Now that we're in 2022, how do they describe the past year? "I have noticed that people celebrate even harder these days, perhaps because they are still here after the pandemic, and the ones that are still here want to celebrate life."
I’ve been pushing very hard on the “all meetings should be online” line. They waste less time, are more productive, and a lot of abusive shenanigans can’t be easily pulled off. 10000% better.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:01 PM on March 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:01 PM on March 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
However, this:
I actually transitioned to a new job and am a virtual health care assistant now. I was nervous to make the change because the training was two months without pay, and I had to buy my own laptop.
Should be illegal everywhere.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:05 PM on March 23, 2022 [15 favorites]
I actually transitioned to a new job and am a virtual health care assistant now. I was nervous to make the change because the training was two months without pay, and I had to buy my own laptop.
Should be illegal everywhere.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:05 PM on March 23, 2022 [15 favorites]
I want everyone who wants to work from home forever to have that opportunity. I'm very happy that these folks in the article are happy.
But I would love to go back to the office 2-3 days a week. I was already WFH 1 day a week and enjoyed it but 2 straight years has been very monotonous and very isolating. I live in a suburb and used to take the train into Philadelphia to work. I feel like my entire world has shrunken down to a 5-mile radius. The taunt about people like me is that we don't have friends outside of work and ... yeah ... I do only have a handful of friends and while we get together when we can we're geographically spread out. I had a bunch of work-friends and people I enjoyed collaborating with. Now they're just bored faces on zoom meetings. We text and chat and get together sometimes, but I miss seeing them more often.
In the office I can concentrate on work without hearing barking dogs (mine) or landscapers or knocks at the door because people know I'm always home. Here at home, when I stretch my legs I feel compelled to start laundry or empty the dishwasher so my days are work-work broken up by housework. It is depressing.
If the office isn't people's thing, then again, with all sincerity, I hope you get to work remotely forever. But those of us who want to go back do exist and we have good reasons. You do you, but the flip side of that is me being able to work how I work best as well.
posted by kimberussell at 12:19 PM on March 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
But I would love to go back to the office 2-3 days a week. I was already WFH 1 day a week and enjoyed it but 2 straight years has been very monotonous and very isolating. I live in a suburb and used to take the train into Philadelphia to work. I feel like my entire world has shrunken down to a 5-mile radius. The taunt about people like me is that we don't have friends outside of work and ... yeah ... I do only have a handful of friends and while we get together when we can we're geographically spread out. I had a bunch of work-friends and people I enjoyed collaborating with. Now they're just bored faces on zoom meetings. We text and chat and get together sometimes, but I miss seeing them more often.
In the office I can concentrate on work without hearing barking dogs (mine) or landscapers or knocks at the door because people know I'm always home. Here at home, when I stretch my legs I feel compelled to start laundry or empty the dishwasher so my days are work-work broken up by housework. It is depressing.
If the office isn't people's thing, then again, with all sincerity, I hope you get to work remotely forever. But those of us who want to go back do exist and we have good reasons. You do you, but the flip side of that is me being able to work how I work best as well.
posted by kimberussell at 12:19 PM on March 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
I hope it works out that people who like going in to work can keep doing that without the economics of it forcing everyone back too. Most corporations & people who work for them are incapable of understanding that it doesn't matter where people are looking at their computer. "Just let them look at the computer wherever they want." is too complicated for them.
posted by bleep at 1:39 PM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by bleep at 1:39 PM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
star gentle uterus: Here in NYC Mayor Adams at the behest of the real estate industry is push very, very hard for people to go back to the office but fuuuuuuck that.
Real estate aside, there is an entire ecosystem of restaurants, shops, delis, dry cleaners, vendors, etc that are dependent on the shiny office towers full of well-paid workers looking for a place to spend their bucks. It’s a wonder some of them got enough business from the construction trades, cops, fire, essential workers to scrape by after so much office/college business disappeared overnight.
bleep: Most corporations & people who work for them are incapable of understanding that it doesn't matter where people are looking at their computer. "Just let them look at the computer wherever they want." is too complicated for them.
Now that the urgency to go remote or go out of business is gone in so many places, let’s see how many of these changes stay around without a corresponding change in the culture. If you’re looking for a job and remote work isn’t mentioned by the posting or recruiter, employers in the old-fashioned mindset will take the question of working remotely to mean “I care more about farting around in my pajama pants instead of putting on adult business clothes and going to work”. At best, you’ll start to see a rift between the “five days in-office people who are super eager go-getters” versus the “pajama pant slackers” in the perceptions of upper management, regardless of what the numbers say. In the corporate world, the big tech and banking companies will set the trend and everyone else copies.
posted by dr_dank at 1:54 PM on March 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
Real estate aside, there is an entire ecosystem of restaurants, shops, delis, dry cleaners, vendors, etc that are dependent on the shiny office towers full of well-paid workers looking for a place to spend their bucks. It’s a wonder some of them got enough business from the construction trades, cops, fire, essential workers to scrape by after so much office/college business disappeared overnight.
bleep: Most corporations & people who work for them are incapable of understanding that it doesn't matter where people are looking at their computer. "Just let them look at the computer wherever they want." is too complicated for them.
Now that the urgency to go remote or go out of business is gone in so many places, let’s see how many of these changes stay around without a corresponding change in the culture. If you’re looking for a job and remote work isn’t mentioned by the posting or recruiter, employers in the old-fashioned mindset will take the question of working remotely to mean “I care more about farting around in my pajama pants instead of putting on adult business clothes and going to work”. At best, you’ll start to see a rift between the “five days in-office people who are super eager go-getters” versus the “pajama pant slackers” in the perceptions of upper management, regardless of what the numbers say. In the corporate world, the big tech and banking companies will set the trend and everyone else copies.
posted by dr_dank at 1:54 PM on March 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
Real estate aside, there is an entire ecosystem of restaurants, shops, delis, dry cleaners, vendors, etc that are dependent on the shiny office towers full of well-paid workers looking for a place to spend their bucks.
There's no "real estate aside". This "rich white collars vs. the poors" line is utterly cynical bullshit pushed by the real estate industry.
You can tell this because the line is always "these privileged officer workers need to do their part and get back in the office to support the economy" and never "commercial landlords need to lower rents to help out local businesses and support the economy!".
posted by star gentle uterus at 2:08 PM on March 23, 2022 [11 favorites]
There's no "real estate aside". This "rich white collars vs. the poors" line is utterly cynical bullshit pushed by the real estate industry.
You can tell this because the line is always "these privileged officer workers need to do their part and get back in the office to support the economy" and never "commercial landlords need to lower rents to help out local businesses and support the economy!".
posted by star gentle uterus at 2:08 PM on March 23, 2022 [11 favorites]
So long as people that want to dial into Zoom/Google Meet from the office are fine continuing to actively dial in (vs. the old days of "we'll be in a meeting room, & we'll share the slide deck virtually, but everybody's going to ignore the dial-ins until the very end with a "Oh right, remote folks! Any comments?"), I figure we've got no tension. We're fellow workers, after all, so concerns can be directed upward instead.
Concerns about a self-admittedly limited tranche of white-collar US work aside, I do appreciate that the article is looking at a broader range of interviewees than the US-parochial view so many media outlets default to. I'm going to have to poke around the site more, I like their premise.
posted by CrystalDave at 2:21 PM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Concerns about a self-admittedly limited tranche of white-collar US work aside, I do appreciate that the article is looking at a broader range of interviewees than the US-parochial view so many media outlets default to. I'm going to have to poke around the site more, I like their premise.
posted by CrystalDave at 2:21 PM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
I had never really internalized this before the pandemic, because my entire work career was service-industry adjacent and I'd never had a work from home day in my entire life, just how bad a commute is for me, and negatively impacts my life. I know a routine of disengagement from work is important for a lot of people, but man, as soon as my shift is over, I am done. I wash my hands of that job, and it doesn't enter my mind (often) until the next day. I get off work, my kid comes home from school, we walk the dogs, and have time left over to cook a great meal for my family (and eat at a reasonable hour). It's the best I've ever felt about work ever.
I've reached the position that, to commute is theft. It's bad. It wastes resources, mostly my time, but fuel as well. We have so little of both to spend, it's a shame to spend them that way.
posted by furnace.heart at 2:54 PM on March 23, 2022 [16 favorites]
I've reached the position that, to commute is theft. It's bad. It wastes resources, mostly my time, but fuel as well. We have so little of both to spend, it's a shame to spend them that way.
posted by furnace.heart at 2:54 PM on March 23, 2022 [16 favorites]
Here in the US, I’d guess that zoning laws would keep someone from running a florist shop out of their home.
posted by Ideefixe at 3:12 PM on March 23, 2022
posted by Ideefixe at 3:12 PM on March 23, 2022
It would be super dope to change those zoning laws, and let run folks all sorts of stuff out of their garages or whatever is available. These aren't really businesses, but I'd be down for more of this in every neighborhood, it would make the suburbs much more livable.
Even in my fairly urban area, if there was a garage bar, florist a coffee shop and if the tamale lady could just sling tamales from her garage instead lugging her cooler around, I'd rarely leave a 12 block radius, even in the shittiest weather.
posted by furnace.heart at 4:13 PM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
Even in my fairly urban area, if there was a garage bar, florist a coffee shop and if the tamale lady could just sling tamales from her garage instead lugging her cooler around, I'd rarely leave a 12 block radius, even in the shittiest weather.
posted by furnace.heart at 4:13 PM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
There is something to be said for counting commute time as work time, especially as work and home move further apart. Like, I have to commute 2 hours each way? You pay me 8 hours and benefits for 4. hours of work. That’s fair, right? Alternatively, you pay me enough to afford a place to live within a 10 minute walking commute. Fair is fair.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:10 PM on March 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:10 PM on March 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
Furnace.heart, wouldn’t that cause parking and noise problems for residents?
posted by Selena777 at 7:49 AM on March 24, 2022
posted by Selena777 at 7:49 AM on March 24, 2022
There is something to be said for counting commute time as work time, especially as work and home move further apart.
I've heard ideas like this before, and I agree to an extent, although I think that approach could also lead to some perverse incentives by subsidizing and/or incentivizing longer commutes. Especially given the negative externalities that those commutes have.
At my job, I know some people (and I am not saying this is you!) who are paid plenty well enough to live within a reasonable public transit trip to work but instead live considerably further away because they absolutely must have a 2500+ square foot single family home or a wealthy school district or a multi-car garage or what have you. And [pre-WFH] they commuted longer distances, by car, complaining the whole time about it without seemingly realizing that that commute was a choice they were making to support certain lifestyle preferences. Frankly, as someone in a modest townhouse much closer to the office that I intentionally picked for its transit access, I have no interest in subsidizing their choices. We make the same money.
It is of course a different story with underpaid jobs where living in the burbs is genuinely the only option in order to access safe and secure housing. But I do get annoyed when reasonably well-paid workers complain about their chosen commutes, and that is something I've seen a frustrating amount.
posted by mosst at 7:59 AM on March 24, 2022
I've heard ideas like this before, and I agree to an extent, although I think that approach could also lead to some perverse incentives by subsidizing and/or incentivizing longer commutes. Especially given the negative externalities that those commutes have.
At my job, I know some people (and I am not saying this is you!) who are paid plenty well enough to live within a reasonable public transit trip to work but instead live considerably further away because they absolutely must have a 2500+ square foot single family home or a wealthy school district or a multi-car garage or what have you. And [pre-WFH] they commuted longer distances, by car, complaining the whole time about it without seemingly realizing that that commute was a choice they were making to support certain lifestyle preferences. Frankly, as someone in a modest townhouse much closer to the office that I intentionally picked for its transit access, I have no interest in subsidizing their choices. We make the same money.
It is of course a different story with underpaid jobs where living in the burbs is genuinely the only option in order to access safe and secure housing. But I do get annoyed when reasonably well-paid workers complain about their chosen commutes, and that is something I've seen a frustrating amount.
posted by mosst at 7:59 AM on March 24, 2022
Furnace.heart, wouldn’t that cause parking and noise problems for residents.
I mean, not necessarily. Especially not if car use was limited. Spain's Superblocks are an good example of pretty harsh restrictions on cars. Cars can't use most streets within superblocks (carve outs exist for certain emergency services and to assist folks with mobility issues). I'm not a city planner, but a balance can likely be struck.
The example of the dudes making bars in their garages, was specifically kind of created because their neighborhoods had no walkable bars. This is a single-case type of example, because driving while intoxicated is regulated, but still a valuable example. I would hope that if a things that fell into the category of 'places people visit frequently' could become more home-based, they'd travel less by car. This might include, cafes, bars, take out restaurants, bakeries, smaller little grocers, etc. If this became extremely common, you might see independent or even city sponsored mass transit in suburban areas that don't currently have any at all.
This digresses from the original post a little bit, but COVID altered how urban and suburban areas work really, really fast. Climate change is going to do the same thing, in some similar and some different ways. We should be planning towards flexibility. The suburbs and 'medium urban' areas of the world are going to look drastically different in the coming decades, no matter what progress we can make on climate change. COVID showed how fast we can adapt in an emergency; and this kind of creativity and experimentation should be encouraged.
posted by furnace.heart at 11:11 AM on March 24, 2022
I mean, not necessarily. Especially not if car use was limited. Spain's Superblocks are an good example of pretty harsh restrictions on cars. Cars can't use most streets within superblocks (carve outs exist for certain emergency services and to assist folks with mobility issues). I'm not a city planner, but a balance can likely be struck.
The example of the dudes making bars in their garages, was specifically kind of created because their neighborhoods had no walkable bars. This is a single-case type of example, because driving while intoxicated is regulated, but still a valuable example. I would hope that if a things that fell into the category of 'places people visit frequently' could become more home-based, they'd travel less by car. This might include, cafes, bars, take out restaurants, bakeries, smaller little grocers, etc. If this became extremely common, you might see independent or even city sponsored mass transit in suburban areas that don't currently have any at all.
This digresses from the original post a little bit, but COVID altered how urban and suburban areas work really, really fast. Climate change is going to do the same thing, in some similar and some different ways. We should be planning towards flexibility. The suburbs and 'medium urban' areas of the world are going to look drastically different in the coming decades, no matter what progress we can make on climate change. COVID showed how fast we can adapt in an emergency; and this kind of creativity and experimentation should be encouraged.
posted by furnace.heart at 11:11 AM on March 24, 2022
employers in the old-fashioned mindset will take the question of working remotely to mean “I care more about farting around in my pajama pants instead of putting on adult business clothes and going to work”.
I mean...they're right? I care infinitely more about pajama pants than adult business clothes.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:58 AM on March 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
I mean...they're right? I care infinitely more about pajama pants than adult business clothes.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:58 AM on March 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Where they went wrong was ever assuming anyone actually cared about their dumbshit clothes and office meetings.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:58 AM on March 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:58 AM on March 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
At my job, I know some people (and I am not saying this is you!) who are paid plenty well enough to live within a reasonable public transit trip to work but instead live considerably further away because they absolutely must have
Not sure where you live but in the NYC metro area, there is basically nowhere that is both affordable and a reasonable public transit trip to work, no matter where you work. Everyone here is paying a ton for housing AND has a bad commute. This is why nobody here wants to go back to commuting 5 days a week.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:35 AM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Not sure where you live but in the NYC metro area, there is basically nowhere that is both affordable and a reasonable public transit trip to work, no matter where you work. Everyone here is paying a ton for housing AND has a bad commute. This is why nobody here wants to go back to commuting 5 days a week.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:35 AM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
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posted by star gentle uterus at 10:46 AM on March 23, 2022 [15 favorites]