Shall We Talk

August 30, 2022 6:08 PM

Why Don’t Chinese People Talk About the Dead? When I ask my relatives why we don’t talk about the dead, they cannot answer confidently. “Because you never asked,” my mother says. “Talking brings back unhappy memories,” one aunt suggests. Perhaps my dentist in Vancouver gave the most telling response. [...] She sat back and, narrowing her brows, said, “We just don’t.”
posted by Rora (12 comments total)

I know it's hardly the point of the story, but "we just don't" is a generalization that definitely doesn't hold true for my family. Maybe it's just my parents generation getting older, but it's definitely not uncommon to reminisce about something that happened in the past which inevitably includes events with people who aren't with us anymore.
posted by juv3nal at 7:04 PM on August 30, 2022 [3 favorites]

An engaging essay even if it feels like the author's sample space of his family and dentist is way too small to make such a sweeping generalization. I mean really it seems like his family doesn't talk about a lot of things.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 7:33 PM on August 30, 2022 [11 favorites]

I'm having a flashback to this poignant post about fruit in lieu of apologies.
posted by dum spiro spero at 8:10 PM on August 30, 2022 [2 favorites]

IIRC, we generally save it for Qingming (i.e. tomb sweeping day). It's not an every day topic.
posted by kschang at 9:37 PM on August 30, 2022 [2 favorites]

I'm sad for his mother, who had no choices, not even in 90's North America.

The more generalizable cultural element in this story is the social constraints placed on women in Chinese society. She couldn't really complain to anyone in her circle without hearing 嫁雞隨雞 嫁狗隨狗 ("Marry a chicken, follow the chicken. Marry a dog, follow the dog," where 嫁 is the specific verb for a woman entering a marriage.) She had to to 吃苦 ("swallow the bitterness") and keep serving the philandering husband, 看他臉色("watch his facial expressions").

The aunt somehow managed to break out of that, though she was still sending home 80% of her paycheck.
posted by dum spiro spero at 10:08 PM on August 30, 2022 [8 favorites]

It s difficult sometimes to engage with pieces like this, because in the kindest way possible, while this is a significantly present cultural dynamic, it's homogenizing/flattening to say it's a Chinese thing to do. It really depends on the family even if the general taboo 'feels' correct.

The other thing that stood out to me is the notion that because the one aunt who knew the rituals isn't sharing, it's practically impossible to learn. Do n.am Chinese diaspora mores not include a custom of fresh-faced youngins asking the shopkeeper of the prayer material shop for general recommendations of what to get or do? Certainly that's common here come Cheng Beng* season.

(*as spelled in my Cantonese/Southern-dominant region)
posted by cendawanita at 1:22 AM on August 31, 2022 [10 favorites]

I regret the choice of pull quote that emphasized the "X people don't do Y" framing of the article. The article did resonate with me a lot, but not because my family is reluctant to talk about death (quite the opposite, actually). I related to the writer's frustration of bumping against his family's past, kept unspoken for unknown reasons. If his family is like mine, they would have denied the aunt's death as being a secret, yet any attempt to learn more would have been quietly evaded until it felt like a taboo. I've always been fascinated by what felt to me like a "white people*" custom of knowing one's family stories inside and out, and the pride in tracking family genealogy. I do know my family's story, but in fragmented pieces, to be shared once and never again.
(*I fully realize that both sharing and hiding family history happens across all cultures.)

I have my own story about the loss of cultural rituals. At my last grandparent's funeral, my aunts and uncles stood around the burial site giggling as they lit the incense and waved it around. They had no idea what they were doing, only that it was supposed to be done.
posted by Rora at 6:24 AM on August 31, 2022 [2 favorites]

I've always been fascinated by what felt to me like a "white people*" custom of knowing one's family stories inside and out, and the pride in tracking family genealogy

I understand whiteness here is a family of features as it exist in a system of racial capitalism (a specific framework I'm only just learning about!) because I can tell you be it Straits Chinese or latter-wave diasporic Chinese, the families whom I know are obsessed with family stories and lineage (they make entire family projects about it) are those with wealth, even the lesser branches (of which, uh, the matriarch lead of Crazy Rich Asians is part of, to be poorly oblique about it so I don't get busted by a basic search), a drive they share with the other rich families of the other Asian demographics in my society.

ETA: I indict myself in this BTW.
posted by cendawanita at 10:14 AM on August 31, 2022 [1 favorite]

Chasing down family history is not QUITE as prevalent in Asian cultures as Asian cultures aren't as individualistic, but genealogy per family is usually still maintained, at least by older generations. But with the adoption of Western customs in the last century, with the young ones splitting off to form their only families instead of living under the family roof (unless it's like in Crazy Rich Asians) that genealogy is only kept if the family is big enough to warrant such. Hate to generalize here, but with a couple billion Chinese around, there's bound to be a wide range of practices and customs. I wouldn't say "we don't talk about X PERIOD". I'm more likely to say "in general, we reserve that for specific occasions."
posted by kschang at 9:22 PM on August 31, 2022 [1 favorite]

The essay explicitly says that talk about the dead involves ghosts, presumably listening. It's not that different today in western cultures. The common phrase, "Don't speak ill of the dead" has a long history, often explained as the goodwill notion that they aren't around to defend themselves. But this reason ignores the ancient and now common belief that they are in our midst to some degree, though maybe more restricted.
posted by Brian B. at 7:09 AM on September 1, 2022

My partner is Hakka. Her father wrote out his life story in Chinese and then translated it into English so his children (who speak but do not read Chinese) could know the family's past. Even I have read his book.
posted by jordantwodelta at 2:56 PM on September 2, 2022

@jordantwodelta -- that's slightly different. It has to do with the concept of 忘本, literally, forget one's origins. The father was afraid that their children will assimilate too completely and forget where they come from originally and the struggles to get there. There are many FBC (foreign-born Chinese) that turn into a derisive term... "bananas" (yellow outside, white inside). The concept of not forgetting one's origins was in a lot of Asian American IPs. In Joy Luck Club (by Amy Tan), Waverly, daughter of Lindo, was named after the "alley" in San Francisco Chinatown, as her mother wanted to remind her where she came from.

I agree, an autobiography is a good way to do it, esp. if there are photos and stuff to go with it.
posted by kschang at 1:46 AM on September 3, 2022