Collective pay-setting
December 14, 2022 5:28 PM Subscribe
How the team sets its own salaries at OCF (part 1) - This is part one, detailing the model we came up with and transparently sharing our staff's pay—part two is about the process we used and resources for other groups who might want to try something similar. - How OCF Developed a New Compensation Model (part 2)
Ah, this is NOT about Oregon Country Fair.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 7:33 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 7:33 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I hope this isn't too much of a derail. But I looked over the article and the website, and I still don't know what this foundation does.
posted by NotLost at 7:59 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by NotLost at 7:59 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Hahahaha. I tried the calculator. It's 40% higher than the local benchmark. Good luck with that one.
posted by metametamind at 8:05 PM on December 14, 2022
posted by metametamind at 8:05 PM on December 14, 2022
Good luck with that one
To whom with what? Aren’t they actually using this payscale?
posted by atoxyl at 8:56 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
To whom with what? Aren’t they actually using this payscale?
posted by atoxyl at 8:56 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
NotLost: From their Introduction page: "We enable groups to quickly set up a collective, raise funds and manage them transparently."
Oddly, the one thing I balked at on reading this was that your number of dependents affect your payscale.
"What?" I thought. "I get paid less if I don't have kids?"
Then I sat with that a while, and realised that I actually benefit from other people raising kids. They will be the generation that pays the taxes that fund hospitals and public transport when I retire. So it's fair enought their parents get some help now.
posted by davidwitteveen at 10:47 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Oddly, the one thing I balked at on reading this was that your number of dependents affect your payscale.
"What?" I thought. "I get paid less if I don't have kids?"
Then I sat with that a while, and realised that I actually benefit from other people raising kids. They will be the generation that pays the taxes that fund hospitals and public transport when I retire. So it's fair enought their parents get some help now.
posted by davidwitteveen at 10:47 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I don't know how well this system would work in practice in my professional circles (not professing doubt; I just can't really guess with any confidence), but this seems like a well thought-out approach that tries to balance the different ways things could go wrong.
I'm sure it's not perfect, but it's almost certainly better than how salaries are set anywhere I've ever worked.
posted by Ickster at 12:37 AM on December 15, 2022
I'm sure it's not perfect, but it's almost certainly better than how salaries are set anywhere I've ever worked.
posted by Ickster at 12:37 AM on December 15, 2022
What struck me reading this article is that all the participants talked about how challenging and fraught the discussion and design was. This is a small-ish, tight-knit group, capable of difficult, emotional, (as my mum would have called it) consciousness-raising work. It takes a huge amount of trust for this to be possible.
I’ve gone back and forth between this kind of organization and various kinds of tech companies. Most people in the latter environment (and a good chunk of people in the former) would not be capable of, or interested in doing, this kind of work together.
I think it’s pretty awesome! But I also look at the results and go, huh, did they really need to do all that to wind up within a few bucks per hour of each other? The answer is no; but the process has surely led to deeper capabilities as a team.
posted by sixswitch at 4:55 AM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
I’ve gone back and forth between this kind of organization and various kinds of tech companies. Most people in the latter environment (and a good chunk of people in the former) would not be capable of, or interested in doing, this kind of work together.
I think it’s pretty awesome! But I also look at the results and go, huh, did they really need to do all that to wind up within a few bucks per hour of each other? The answer is no; but the process has surely led to deeper capabilities as a team.
posted by sixswitch at 4:55 AM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oddly, the one thing I balked at on reading this was that your number of dependents affect your payscale.
"What?" I thought. "I get paid less if I don't have kids?"
Then I sat with that a while, and realised that I actually benefit from other people raising kids. They will be the generation that pays the taxes that fund hospitals and public transport when I retire. So it's fair enought their parents get some help now.
One possible problem with this is that sometimes the reason that people don't have kids is due to chronic medical conditions/chronic illnesses. And those chronic medical conditions/chronic illnesses come with significant medical costs not covered by health insurance.
So paying childless people less is going to hurt some people who really need the extra money.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 9:08 AM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
"What?" I thought. "I get paid less if I don't have kids?"
Then I sat with that a while, and realised that I actually benefit from other people raising kids. They will be the generation that pays the taxes that fund hospitals and public transport when I retire. So it's fair enought their parents get some help now.
One possible problem with this is that sometimes the reason that people don't have kids is due to chronic medical conditions/chronic illnesses. And those chronic medical conditions/chronic illnesses come with significant medical costs not covered by health insurance.
So paying childless people less is going to hurt some people who really need the extra money.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 9:08 AM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Personal factorsThey also noted that it wasn't a perfect system (and gave some examples) but they weren't going to let that stop them from implementing it now and improving it as they go.
This confidential section is for workers to self-determine how much they are affected by disability, debt, and disadvantage, and how many dependents they support financially. The answers to these questions are kept private, do not influence hiring or promotion decisions, and can only adjust someone’s pay upward. This recognizes the very real impacts these factors have on earning potential and financial needs. OCF values creating a more equitable society, and wants to reflect that in our compensation formula.
posted by aniola at 9:49 AM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Hahahaha. I tried the calculator. It's 40% higher than the local benchmark. Good luck with that one.
I tried it and wound up with a number that was 40 percent of my base salary. Closer to 20 percent when you factor in performance bonuses and equity grants. But even base salary as a grunt worker is higher than the top line ED gets. Presumably they have a different set of priorities and skillsets required, but as I've said before, non-profits are notorious for underpaying, and this is no exception. That said, its in line with what was making at my last job, at a non profit.
We did not base the formula on ‘market rates’ because we prioritize contribution to and accountability to our mission, over how the capitalist economy might otherwise value someone’s labor.
The capitalists have to do this too, you know. Market rate comparisons are there to ensure your comp plan can actually hire and retain people. Like, the open collective foundation mission is at least partially about providing non-profit status, fundraising and accounting for open source projects, which seems like it would need lawyers, accountants coders and sysops. And probably some technical support. But the calculator implies all roles equally contribute to the mission, and the only variable is how independently you perform your job.
Dependant 1: supported by you and 1 other people.
Notably, you can't go to zero other people. Single child with an Elder care dependent? I guess you just need to add more fictitious dependents until the effective dependent rate is accurate.
posted by pwnguin at 11:10 AM on December 15, 2022
I tried it and wound up with a number that was 40 percent of my base salary. Closer to 20 percent when you factor in performance bonuses and equity grants. But even base salary as a grunt worker is higher than the top line ED gets. Presumably they have a different set of priorities and skillsets required, but as I've said before, non-profits are notorious for underpaying, and this is no exception. That said, its in line with what was making at my last job, at a non profit.
We did not base the formula on ‘market rates’ because we prioritize contribution to and accountability to our mission, over how the capitalist economy might otherwise value someone’s labor.
The capitalists have to do this too, you know. Market rate comparisons are there to ensure your comp plan can actually hire and retain people. Like, the open collective foundation mission is at least partially about providing non-profit status, fundraising and accounting for open source projects, which seems like it would need lawyers, accountants coders and sysops. And probably some technical support. But the calculator implies all roles equally contribute to the mission, and the only variable is how independently you perform your job.
Dependant 1: supported by you and 1 other people.
Notably, you can't go to zero other people. Single child with an Elder care dependent? I guess you just need to add more fictitious dependents until the effective dependent rate is accurate.
posted by pwnguin at 11:10 AM on December 15, 2022
... Does this calculator believe that single-parent families do not exist?
posted by meowzilla at 4:25 PM on December 15, 2022
posted by meowzilla at 4:25 PM on December 15, 2022
Step 9: implement 3 month trial
The compensation model we came up with is only a first iteration; we fully expect it to keep evolving. But we didn’t want to wait for perfection before taking a step in the right direction and adjusting people’s pay for real. So we had a formal Loomio proposal to implement the new model as a 3-month trial period. It passed unanimously.
Check out the “reflections from team members” and “what’s next” sections of part one to learn some of the pros and cons of this process, and questions we still have outstanding after reaching this point.
posted by aniola at 7:22 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by NotLost at 7:04 PM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]