CHP investigating several incidences of juveniles riding bicycles
February 19, 2023 10:50 AM Subscribe
It's 2023 and San Francisco still hasn't put in a bike path on their half of the Bay Bridge to Oakland. But the kids are alright.
Even the folks managing the Richmond Bridge (which is also in the SF Bay Area) were able to figure out how to plop down some concrete barriers on a former car shoulder lane to make an instantly-popular route for human-scale traffic.
Even the folks managing the Richmond Bridge (which is also in the SF Bay Area) were able to figure out how to plop down some concrete barriers on a former car shoulder lane to make an instantly-popular route for human-scale traffic.
I wondered how popular the bike crossing of the Richmond Bridge actually is. Here's one story that includes stats in 2022 - roughly 400 total crossings on weekends, and about half that on weekdays. Another story with data from Berkeley research says half that number of users on the weekends. As a bike advocate and cyclist who puts 2,000-3,000 miles on my bike(s) yearly, that seems like a huge waste of infrastructure. That bridge carries huge amounts of car traffic and has regular traffic jams; it's hard to imagine this being a worthwhile tradeoff. I would hazard a guess that the bike / peds path is underused because the bridge is long, noisey, cold, and doesn't really go anywhere immediately useful at either end. It does give access to great cycling on the Marin side on the weekend for East Bay folks, at least.
Removing a lane from any of the Bay Area bridges to make a bike crossing seems like something to be avoided at all costs. Traffic is already horrible, drivers seem angry more than not, and cyclists are the target of all kinds of abuse. Visibly reducing throughput for cars would not help any of those three things, as much as I want the access as a cyclist.
posted by pkingdesign at 11:17 AM on February 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
Removing a lane from any of the Bay Area bridges to make a bike crossing seems like something to be avoided at all costs. Traffic is already horrible, drivers seem angry more than not, and cyclists are the target of all kinds of abuse. Visibly reducing throughput for cars would not help any of those three things, as much as I want the access as a cyclist.
posted by pkingdesign at 11:17 AM on February 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
Removing a lane from any of the Bay Area bridges to make a bike crossing seems like something to be avoided at all costs.
Counterpoint: catering relentlessly and incuriously to motor vehicle traffic, which is for-real destroying the world, is the thing that needs to be avoided at all costs.
posted by mhoye at 11:24 AM on February 19, 2023 [63 favorites]
Counterpoint: catering relentlessly and incuriously to motor vehicle traffic, which is for-real destroying the world, is the thing that needs to be avoided at all costs.
posted by mhoye at 11:24 AM on February 19, 2023 [63 favorites]
@pkingdesign
You can't ride all the way across, which makes it a lot less attractive to... everyone with a bicycle.
posted by cccorlew at 11:45 AM on February 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
You can't ride all the way across, which makes it a lot less attractive to... everyone with a bicycle.
posted by cccorlew at 11:45 AM on February 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
Removing a lane from any of the Bay Area bridges to make a bike crossing seems like something to be avoided at all costs.
They didn't remove a driving lane from the Richmond Bridge. They removed a shoulder. I don't bike across the Richmond Bridge all the time, but it is, as described, "a vital connection" for me when I need it.
Traffic is already horrible, drivers seem angry more than not, and cyclists are the target of all kinds of abuse.
Placating abusive and angry drivers is not what I value in my life or public infrastructure.
posted by aniola at 11:54 AM on February 19, 2023 [41 favorites]
They didn't remove a driving lane from the Richmond Bridge. They removed a shoulder. I don't bike across the Richmond Bridge all the time, but it is, as described, "a vital connection" for me when I need it.
Traffic is already horrible, drivers seem angry more than not, and cyclists are the target of all kinds of abuse.
Placating abusive and angry drivers is not what I value in my life or public infrastructure.
posted by aniola at 11:54 AM on February 19, 2023 [41 favorites]
I'm not in the Bay Area (and apologies if this is off-topic), but this seems timely as I got dragged into a pretty nasty argument on our neighborhood FB group today over aggressive driving. It got extremely heated, with multiple people defending the assholes going 20 over down our street because they "might be having a medical emergency" (???). Just Olympics level of mental gymnastics like that to defend car entitlement.
I don't know, I hate driving, I'm not willing to cycle in the US anymore (far too dangerous) and emigrating to a more civilized country isn't an option. Honestly at this point just being a shut-in and cutting all contact with other humans is starting to feel mighty attractive.
posted by photo guy at 12:13 PM on February 19, 2023 [18 favorites]
I don't know, I hate driving, I'm not willing to cycle in the US anymore (far too dangerous) and emigrating to a more civilized country isn't an option. Honestly at this point just being a shut-in and cutting all contact with other humans is starting to feel mighty attractive.
posted by photo guy at 12:13 PM on February 19, 2023 [18 favorites]
I'm mainly here to cheer on those kids biking and doing wheelies on the (mutter grumble) Bay Bridge. Erm. Juveniles, I mean. Juveniles. I guess that's what we call kids-these-days when they're being awesome.
posted by aniola at 12:17 PM on February 19, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by aniola at 12:17 PM on February 19, 2023 [10 favorites]
"I wondered how popular the bike crossing of the Richmond Bridge actually is. Here's one story that includes stats in 2022 - roughly 400 total crossings on weekends"
OK, so what's your plan for bringing that number up?
Because we've *got* to have a plan. The climate crisis pretty much demands it. Somebody's probably more up on this than me, but I've heard a target of halving vehicle-miles traveled pretty soon as a necessary step?
I don't claim to know what the best plan is for progress there, but if it requires taking just one of *five* lanes there--uh, that sounds like a pretty modest step to me.
posted by bfields at 12:40 PM on February 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
OK, so what's your plan for bringing that number up?
Because we've *got* to have a plan. The climate crisis pretty much demands it. Somebody's probably more up on this than me, but I've heard a target of halving vehicle-miles traveled pretty soon as a necessary step?
I don't claim to know what the best plan is for progress there, but if it requires taking just one of *five* lanes there--uh, that sounds like a pretty modest step to me.
posted by bfields at 12:40 PM on February 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
The Richmond bridge is a distraction. The Bay Bridge is a completely different beast. It gets piles of bike riders, in spite of not actually making it all the way to SF.
And meanwhile, the OPD isn't doing shit about someone who's been on a spree of intentionally dooring cyclists lately.
posted by kaibutsu at 1:04 PM on February 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
And meanwhile, the OPD isn't doing shit about someone who's been on a spree of intentionally dooring cyclists lately.
posted by kaibutsu at 1:04 PM on February 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
[This thread is is exactly why I don't post on Metafilter much any more. It's a hostile place. I *help fund metafilter* because I enjoy reading here, but the hostility toward whatever non-conforming POV helps keep me a reader only.]
A few of you didn't read the article, didn't read the links, don't understand local Bay Area geography, or don't care about any of those things when trying to simplify a complex issue. For starters the Richmond Bridge and the Bay Bridge are two totally separate bridges. One has an underused bike lane, the other doesn't have one at all. Simply put, kaibutsu is probably right that the Richmond Bridge is probably just a distraction.
hose "juveniles" aren't protesting lack of transit (at huge problem) or lack of bike access (a huge problem). They're almost certainly just pushing back against authority without thought or any reason to fear consequence. Riding wheelies out into middle lanes of traffic on a freeway is an awesome display of talent and also a menace. Different groups of kids do the same down crowded city streets close to my house. Along a similar theme to what I wrote above: this behavior makes all cyclists less safe. Do I want to enable and placate drivers at all costs, absolutely not. I never implied I did. Do I want to enrage drivers so that myself and my 5 year old daughter are *even more of a target* on our daily commutes? No.
I don't know how y'all take such offense to that perspective, but you're welcome to it I guess. I regret wasting my time posting in the first place.
posted by pkingdesign at 1:21 PM on February 19, 2023 [22 favorites]
A few of you didn't read the article, didn't read the links, don't understand local Bay Area geography, or don't care about any of those things when trying to simplify a complex issue. For starters the Richmond Bridge and the Bay Bridge are two totally separate bridges. One has an underused bike lane, the other doesn't have one at all. Simply put, kaibutsu is probably right that the Richmond Bridge is probably just a distraction.
hose "juveniles" aren't protesting lack of transit (at huge problem) or lack of bike access (a huge problem). They're almost certainly just pushing back against authority without thought or any reason to fear consequence. Riding wheelies out into middle lanes of traffic on a freeway is an awesome display of talent and also a menace. Different groups of kids do the same down crowded city streets close to my house. Along a similar theme to what I wrote above: this behavior makes all cyclists less safe. Do I want to enable and placate drivers at all costs, absolutely not. I never implied I did. Do I want to enrage drivers so that myself and my 5 year old daughter are *even more of a target* on our daily commutes? No.
I don't know how y'all take such offense to that perspective, but you're welcome to it I guess. I regret wasting my time posting in the first place.
posted by pkingdesign at 1:21 PM on February 19, 2023 [22 favorites]
This is not just kids being kids, it's an organized protest. There is a support vehicle with top mounted flashing lights and a trailer with grab poles.
But mostly, respect to the kid who enters the frame in a wheelie and and maintains it the whole way!
posted by joeyh at 1:33 PM on February 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
But mostly, respect to the kid who enters the frame in a wheelie and and maintains it the whole way!
posted by joeyh at 1:33 PM on February 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
Here's lots of data on bike and pedestrian bridge usage in the bay area.
Bay Bridge East: 108 (weekday) / 210 (weekend)
Richmond: 90 / 225
Dumbarton: 109 / 132
Benicia-Martinez: 39 / 49
Carquinez: 27 / 35
Meanwhile, the bay bridge gets ~250,000 cars per day... sigh. The Bay Bridge usage for bikes is lower than I thought, but would open up a lot of commute opportunities with a West Span. (The Bay Bridge also gets a fair number of pedestrians: 1,120 / 319. I find this actively surprising.)
While I'm compiling stats...
SFBay Ferry carries ~4,500 people per weekday.
BART is currently getting ~140,000 riders per day. And is still only ~1/3 of pre-pandemic ridership.
Infrastructure anecdata: I live on a four-lane street in Oakland that has since become a two-lane street with bike lanes and shoulder parking. Previous to the conversion, we saw about one horrific accident a month as drivers would regularly run the red light at the intersection we're next to and t-bone another car or sometimes a scooter or cyclist. Accidents are dramatically down since the bike lane conversion: instead of having a slow lane and a fast lane, you've got one lane and traffic only goes as fast as the slowest car. It basically kills joy-riding on the big street.
So, in some cases adding bike infrastructure actively reduces the space for cars to do dumb shit... And in other cases, adding bikes creates a greater expectation of bikes, which is good for cyclists.
posted by kaibutsu at 2:04 PM on February 19, 2023 [16 favorites]
Bay Bridge East: 108 (weekday) / 210 (weekend)
Richmond: 90 / 225
Dumbarton: 109 / 132
Benicia-Martinez: 39 / 49
Carquinez: 27 / 35
Meanwhile, the bay bridge gets ~250,000 cars per day... sigh. The Bay Bridge usage for bikes is lower than I thought, but would open up a lot of commute opportunities with a West Span. (The Bay Bridge also gets a fair number of pedestrians: 1,120 / 319. I find this actively surprising.)
While I'm compiling stats...
SFBay Ferry carries ~4,500 people per weekday.
BART is currently getting ~140,000 riders per day. And is still only ~1/3 of pre-pandemic ridership.
Infrastructure anecdata: I live on a four-lane street in Oakland that has since become a two-lane street with bike lanes and shoulder parking. Previous to the conversion, we saw about one horrific accident a month as drivers would regularly run the red light at the intersection we're next to and t-bone another car or sometimes a scooter or cyclist. Accidents are dramatically down since the bike lane conversion: instead of having a slow lane and a fast lane, you've got one lane and traffic only goes as fast as the slowest car. It basically kills joy-riding on the big street.
So, in some cases adding bike infrastructure actively reduces the space for cars to do dumb shit... And in other cases, adding bikes creates a greater expectation of bikes, which is good for cyclists.
posted by kaibutsu at 2:04 PM on February 19, 2023 [16 favorites]
From that dooring article, emphasis mine:
On the topic of passing, some good news. In California as of January 1, "On any street with multiple lanes in one direction, the law now requires drivers to completely change lanes before passing a bike rider proceeding in the same direction. On single lane streets the existing 3-foot minimum passing distance rule still applies."
posted by aniola at 2:17 PM on February 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
As she was traveling, however, the spell was broken as Mead noticed that a car had been driving close on her left-hand side despite there being “plenty of space” for the gray sedan to pass her.Definitely not your typical whoops-forgot-to-check-the-bike-lane "door"ing.
“Then it happened really, really fast,” she said.
The front passenger door of the sedan was opened into her path, just a few feet ahead.
“The next thing I knew, I was on the ground, falling off my bike,” she said. “The car sped away, and as it did, I heard them laughing.”
On the topic of passing, some good news. In California as of January 1, "On any street with multiple lanes in one direction, the law now requires drivers to completely change lanes before passing a bike rider proceeding in the same direction. On single lane streets the existing 3-foot minimum passing distance rule still applies."
posted by aniola at 2:17 PM on February 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
someone who's been on a spree of intentionally dooring cyclists lately.
That's just straight up evil attempted murder
posted by chavenet at 2:35 PM on February 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
That's just straight up evil attempted murder
posted by chavenet at 2:35 PM on February 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
(The Bay Bridge also gets a fair number of pedestrians: 1,120 / 319. I find this actively surprising.)
Scrolling down to the graph of daily trip counts, the pedestrian numbers spike after October 2022 and are so wildly irregular that I bet they're bad data. But if they're not, something interesting is going on!
As a Bay Area resident without a car, I'm not sure what to make of the bridge paths. Part of me thinks, yes, of course I should be able to use the bridges like anyone else! And I have; I walked the east span of the Bay Bridge as soon as it opened, and I walked the Richmond–San Rafael bridge last summer. After bathing in noise and exhaust for an hour, getting stiff limbs and an aching jaw from the rattling of the roadbed, and ending up with nowhere safe to continue my walk on the San Rafael side, I'm not in a hurry to repeat the experience. But sure, it should be an option!
Yet the kind of project kaibutsu talks about (narrowing a four-lane road to two lanes, making infrastructure in the heart of our cities safer for all users) has far more impact. If you think we should do both, I agree, but Caltrans doesn't seem to. This is what a typical Caltrans project (still) looks like.
posted by aws17576 at 2:42 PM on February 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Scrolling down to the graph of daily trip counts, the pedestrian numbers spike after October 2022 and are so wildly irregular that I bet they're bad data. But if they're not, something interesting is going on!
As a Bay Area resident without a car, I'm not sure what to make of the bridge paths. Part of me thinks, yes, of course I should be able to use the bridges like anyone else! And I have; I walked the east span of the Bay Bridge as soon as it opened, and I walked the Richmond–San Rafael bridge last summer. After bathing in noise and exhaust for an hour, getting stiff limbs and an aching jaw from the rattling of the roadbed, and ending up with nowhere safe to continue my walk on the San Rafael side, I'm not in a hurry to repeat the experience. But sure, it should be an option!
Yet the kind of project kaibutsu talks about (narrowing a four-lane road to two lanes, making infrastructure in the heart of our cities safer for all users) has far more impact. If you think we should do both, I agree, but Caltrans doesn't seem to. This is what a typical Caltrans project (still) looks like.
posted by aws17576 at 2:42 PM on February 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Here's data for an area bridge that actually has built-in sidewalks, the Golden Gate Bridge:
A previous traffic survey (2015) observed peak daily totals of 8,147 pedestrians and 2,240
bicyclists using the East Sidewalk and 5,753 peak daily bicyclists using the West Sidewalk (lots more data at the link).
Now, the Golden Gate isn't completely comparable, since the number of people who live in the communities north of SF is dwarfed by the number of people who live in the communities east of SF, and the demographics are very different.
posted by aneel at 3:22 PM on February 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
A previous traffic survey (2015) observed peak daily totals of 8,147 pedestrians and 2,240
bicyclists using the East Sidewalk and 5,753 peak daily bicyclists using the West Sidewalk (lots more data at the link).
Now, the Golden Gate isn't completely comparable, since the number of people who live in the communities north of SF is dwarfed by the number of people who live in the communities east of SF, and the demographics are very different.
posted by aneel at 3:22 PM on February 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Pay cyclists and pedestrians $1 to cross the bridge, they can do it as many times as they want, as long as there's 8 hours between payments. You'll incentivize people to leave their cars at home with minimal cost.
posted by blue_beetle at 3:29 PM on February 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 3:29 PM on February 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
That's just straight up evil attempted murder
Well, sure, from the perspective of a bicyclist, but from the perspective of a Bay Area cop it's "failure to ride as far right as practicable", and the ticket will go to the cyclist.
Up here in Sonoma County a friend of mine had to post rear bike camera video of the driver honking as they deliberately swerved into him to all the social media sites in order to get the ticket against him, the cyclist, dropped, and the driver charged. The driver was eventually charged with a a misdemeanor, got off with a diversion program. To cops, and indeed to prosecutors, cyclists aren't people.
Good on these kids, may there be more of them. Fuck driver entitlement.
As things get worse here I'm becoming more and more reluctant to ride without cameras. I guess I need to bite the bullet and spend a few hundred more dollars on bike gear.
posted by straw at 3:44 PM on February 19, 2023 [13 favorites]
Well, sure, from the perspective of a bicyclist, but from the perspective of a Bay Area cop it's "failure to ride as far right as practicable", and the ticket will go to the cyclist.
Up here in Sonoma County a friend of mine had to post rear bike camera video of the driver honking as they deliberately swerved into him to all the social media sites in order to get the ticket against him, the cyclist, dropped, and the driver charged. The driver was eventually charged with a a misdemeanor, got off with a diversion program. To cops, and indeed to prosecutors, cyclists aren't people.
Good on these kids, may there be more of them. Fuck driver entitlement.
As things get worse here I'm becoming more and more reluctant to ride without cameras. I guess I need to bite the bullet and spend a few hundred more dollars on bike gear.
posted by straw at 3:44 PM on February 19, 2023 [13 favorites]
I wondered how popular the bike crossing of the Richmond Bridge actually is. Here's one story that includes stats in 2022 - roughly 400 total crossings on weekends, and about half that on weekdays. Another story with data from Berkeley research says half that number of users on the weekends. As a bike advocate and cyclist who puts 2,000-3,000 miles on my bike(s) yearly, that seems like a huge waste of infrastructure.
This is the wrong way to look at public services if you actually want to serve as many people as possible. I mean, I could say elevators are a "huge waste of infrastructure" if there are public stairs and escalators. Why maintain a very expensive box when stairs and escalators move more people at a time? Oh right, there are people for whom access to what ever is up or down would be extremely difficult without an escalator.
And frankly, so what if only a few cyclists go over the Richmond Bridge? The point is that they can- that there's at least one access point for those that cannot or will not drive a car. And commute times on the Richmond Bridge for drivers have barely changed:
Based on the illustrated data, the following observations can be made regarding traffic conditions on the upper deck of the bridge:
• The addition of the barrier-separated path appears to have caused slight speed reductions on the bridge under heavy traffic demands. Before the modifications, reduced speeds on weekday mornings were primarily contained to the first third of the bridge, and more particularly to the first half mile. Traffic then flowed at or above 50 mph on the remainder of the bridge. In the fall of 2021, average speeds between 40 and 50 mph (yellow and orange areas) were observed across most of the length of the bridge during weekday mornings, indicating a slight deterioration of traffic conditions under heavy traffic demand.
• Similar speed deteriorations are observed for the Saturday and Sunday afternoon peak periods, but to a lower extent due to lower traffic demands.
• The expansion of reduced speed areas did not translate into significant increases in travel times across the bridge. As shown in Figure 8-63, average peak travel times for the weekday morning peak in the fall of 2021 are less than one minute higher than the travel times that were observed before the modifications.
• As shown in Figure 8-64 and Figure 8-65, peak travel times on Saturdays and Sundays remain similar to those observed with the prior bridge configuration.
posted by oneirodynia at 5:10 PM on February 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
This is the wrong way to look at public services if you actually want to serve as many people as possible. I mean, I could say elevators are a "huge waste of infrastructure" if there are public stairs and escalators. Why maintain a very expensive box when stairs and escalators move more people at a time? Oh right, there are people for whom access to what ever is up or down would be extremely difficult without an escalator.
And frankly, so what if only a few cyclists go over the Richmond Bridge? The point is that they can- that there's at least one access point for those that cannot or will not drive a car. And commute times on the Richmond Bridge for drivers have barely changed:
Based on the illustrated data, the following observations can be made regarding traffic conditions on the upper deck of the bridge:
• The addition of the barrier-separated path appears to have caused slight speed reductions on the bridge under heavy traffic demands. Before the modifications, reduced speeds on weekday mornings were primarily contained to the first third of the bridge, and more particularly to the first half mile. Traffic then flowed at or above 50 mph on the remainder of the bridge. In the fall of 2021, average speeds between 40 and 50 mph (yellow and orange areas) were observed across most of the length of the bridge during weekday mornings, indicating a slight deterioration of traffic conditions under heavy traffic demand.
• Similar speed deteriorations are observed for the Saturday and Sunday afternoon peak periods, but to a lower extent due to lower traffic demands.
• The expansion of reduced speed areas did not translate into significant increases in travel times across the bridge. As shown in Figure 8-63, average peak travel times for the weekday morning peak in the fall of 2021 are less than one minute higher than the travel times that were observed before the modifications.
• As shown in Figure 8-64 and Figure 8-65, peak travel times on Saturdays and Sundays remain similar to those observed with the prior bridge configuration.
posted by oneirodynia at 5:10 PM on February 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Huh, here I was thinking “400 crossings a day! That’s quite a few!”
Given that many low income people can’t afford cars, keeping other transportation options available, even if they aren’t as heavily used, is definitely an equity/fairness issue. Especially given the structural racism baked into the US economy that results in much higher proportions of Black, Latino, and other non-white people being in that car-less group.
posted by eviemath at 5:58 PM on February 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Given that many low income people can’t afford cars, keeping other transportation options available, even if they aren’t as heavily used, is definitely an equity/fairness issue. Especially given the structural racism baked into the US economy that results in much higher proportions of Black, Latino, and other non-white people being in that car-less group.
posted by eviemath at 5:58 PM on February 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
The framing of the discussion is so car centric. Imagine how different it would be if someone proposed reducing all residential streets to one lane with pull outs if they didn't get at least 400 cars a day because two lane streets were a huge waste of infrastructure. Bike infrastructure is so bloody cheap and yet it constantly has to compete with unquestioned "one more lane" builds for cars.
Even the infrastructure itself. Why is the path so unpleasant? Because the barrier is hip high, designed for cars, Jersey barrier instead of something high enough to act as a noise barrier. That would contain spray when it was raining. Cyclists are just expected to accept unpleasent riding enviroments that car drivers never would.
posted by Mitheral at 7:57 PM on February 19, 2023 [16 favorites]
Even the infrastructure itself. Why is the path so unpleasant? Because the barrier is hip high, designed for cars, Jersey barrier instead of something high enough to act as a noise barrier. That would contain spray when it was raining. Cyclists are just expected to accept unpleasent riding enviroments that car drivers never would.
posted by Mitheral at 7:57 PM on February 19, 2023 [16 favorites]
ending up with nowhere safe to continue my walk on the San Rafael side
It took me a few tries to find it (poor wayfinding!) but there is actually excellent connectivity to a multi-use path right there where you can enjoy a walk along the bay and watch pelicans diving for fish.
posted by aniola at 8:08 PM on February 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
It took me a few tries to find it (poor wayfinding!) but there is actually excellent connectivity to a multi-use path right there where you can enjoy a walk along the bay and watch pelicans diving for fish.
posted by aniola at 8:08 PM on February 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
East Bay cyclists show solidarity after a string of recent attacks causes over a dozen injuries
"The more of us together, the stronger we are," said Rollout Crew Bike Club member Truckie Evans.posted by zachlipton at 10:34 PM on February 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
It got extremely heated, with multiple people defending the assholes going 20 over down our street because they "might be having a medical emergency" (???).
It's hilarious that I've used nearly exactly this metaphor before to describe infuriating bad-faith reasoning.
Anyway, I lived on Treasure Island which connects the west and east spans of the bay bridge (technically it's Yerba Buena island) and cycled in the bay area for years. Here's my two cents:
Here's lots of data on bike and pedestrian bridge usage in the bay area. Bay Bridge East: 108 (weekday) / 210 (weekend)
This is a completely useless statistic. The missing context is that only the eastern span of the bridge (newly built a few years ago) has a bike path. No one uses it to commute between SF and the east bay, so it's pointless to point out low utilization rates.
You'd have to bike from Yerba Buena Island to Treasure Island (fun going there, a STEEP climb going back) to take the 25 muni downtown, and then continue on your commute. And those buses only carry 3 bicycles at a time. It's so much faster to take your bike on BART (though the crowding makes that hard too.)
Putting a bike path on the western span isn't simple though. Adding it to the existing bridge would be something it wasn't designed for, and I'm sure the eventual plan is to replace the western span as well so why add it to a bridge that may be torn down? Turning a lane into a bicycle lane with protected barriers is politically/logistically not going to happen (and I'm someone who is hard in favor of bike commuting.) And that ride is a slog: it's 30 minutes for the eastern span alone. On one end is Treasure Island that has nice views but that's it. The other end spots you out by the IKEA Emeryville, kind of middle of nowhere if you're on a bike. I'm not sure how many people would be willing to make an hour long bicycle commute (longer if you want to take a break).
When the western span is replaced, it absolutely should continue the bike path. Until then, it's a nice weekend ride to TI's wineries and fancy dining.
BUT RELATED TO THE FPP: this isn't Critical Mass or a protest ride (which has its own issues). It's just kids on scraper bikes (previously and previously) dangerously jamming up traffic because they can. Kudos for demonstrating the power of organized masses, but they're doing it for lulz. It'd be dangerous to try to arrest them on the bridge but more importantly: the cops don't care.
In fact, that's how you can tell there's no political force behind this: if this was protest demonstration the cops would be out in full riot gear to bust heads and arrest the leaders. Otherwise, it gets treated like a sports riot: lean back and let it happen unless a rich person's property is being threatened.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:53 AM on February 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's hilarious that I've used nearly exactly this metaphor before to describe infuriating bad-faith reasoning.
Anyway, I lived on Treasure Island which connects the west and east spans of the bay bridge (technically it's Yerba Buena island) and cycled in the bay area for years. Here's my two cents:
Here's lots of data on bike and pedestrian bridge usage in the bay area. Bay Bridge East: 108 (weekday) / 210 (weekend)
This is a completely useless statistic. The missing context is that only the eastern span of the bridge (newly built a few years ago) has a bike path. No one uses it to commute between SF and the east bay, so it's pointless to point out low utilization rates.
You'd have to bike from Yerba Buena Island to Treasure Island (fun going there, a STEEP climb going back) to take the 25 muni downtown, and then continue on your commute. And those buses only carry 3 bicycles at a time. It's so much faster to take your bike on BART (though the crowding makes that hard too.)
Putting a bike path on the western span isn't simple though. Adding it to the existing bridge would be something it wasn't designed for, and I'm sure the eventual plan is to replace the western span as well so why add it to a bridge that may be torn down? Turning a lane into a bicycle lane with protected barriers is politically/logistically not going to happen (and I'm someone who is hard in favor of bike commuting.) And that ride is a slog: it's 30 minutes for the eastern span alone. On one end is Treasure Island that has nice views but that's it. The other end spots you out by the IKEA Emeryville, kind of middle of nowhere if you're on a bike. I'm not sure how many people would be willing to make an hour long bicycle commute (longer if you want to take a break).
When the western span is replaced, it absolutely should continue the bike path. Until then, it's a nice weekend ride to TI's wineries and fancy dining.
BUT RELATED TO THE FPP: this isn't Critical Mass or a protest ride (which has its own issues). It's just kids on scraper bikes (previously and previously) dangerously jamming up traffic because they can. Kudos for demonstrating the power of organized masses, but they're doing it for lulz. It'd be dangerous to try to arrest them on the bridge but more importantly: the cops don't care.
In fact, that's how you can tell there's no political force behind this: if this was protest demonstration the cops would be out in full riot gear to bust heads and arrest the leaders. Otherwise, it gets treated like a sports riot: lean back and let it happen unless a rich person's property is being threatened.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:53 AM on February 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
People, not cars, build bridges, and people should have access to bridges, whether biking, boarding, or walking.
posted by Doug Holland at 6:57 AM on February 20, 2023
posted by Doug Holland at 6:57 AM on February 20, 2023
this isn't Critical Mass or a protest ride (which has its own issues). It's just kids on scraper bikes (previously and previously) dangerously jamming up traffic because they can.
Looks like a protest to me but I don't want to play one true scotsman about whether this is a protest or maybe just a demonstration or not. But if it wasn't (and assuming bikes aren't specifically prohibited from the bridge) they are just using the road to travel as they are legally permitted to do so. And the exact style of their bikes or their age would seem to be irrelevant. If automobilists don't want to deal with slower traffic like this maybe they should get behind proper infrastructure for that traffic.
posted by Mitheral at 10:07 AM on February 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Looks like a protest to me but I don't want to play one true scotsman about whether this is a protest or maybe just a demonstration or not. But if it wasn't (and assuming bikes aren't specifically prohibited from the bridge) they are just using the road to travel as they are legally permitted to do so. And the exact style of their bikes or their age would seem to be irrelevant. If automobilists don't want to deal with slower traffic like this maybe they should get behind proper infrastructure for that traffic.
posted by Mitheral at 10:07 AM on February 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
unless a rich person's property is being threatened.
Cars are kind of a rich people thing, people in this very conversation have expressed feeling threatened by these kids exercising what should be or is a basic right, and CHP is apparently investigating.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1041177/us-car-owners-by-income-group/ There is a sharp increase in vehicle ownership once income surpasses 50,000 U.S. dollars. The high running costs of owning a car makes it very difficult for low income earners to have their own vehicle. The annual salary of those in the lowest income group shown would not cover the cost of the average second hand car.
It this was scraper bikes, here is the scraper bike mission: The Scraper Bike Team empowers urban youth living in underserved communities through self-expression and creativity. We encourage youth entrepreneurship and promote healthy, sustainable living for all. The Scraper Bike Team will use each work of bicycle art to impact social justice and global change.
posted by aniola at 10:22 AM on February 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Cars are kind of a rich people thing, people in this very conversation have expressed feeling threatened by these kids exercising what should be or is a basic right, and CHP is apparently investigating.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1041177/us-car-owners-by-income-group/ There is a sharp increase in vehicle ownership once income surpasses 50,000 U.S. dollars. The high running costs of owning a car makes it very difficult for low income earners to have their own vehicle. The annual salary of those in the lowest income group shown would not cover the cost of the average second hand car.
It this was scraper bikes, here is the scraper bike mission: The Scraper Bike Team empowers urban youth living in underserved communities through self-expression and creativity. We encourage youth entrepreneurship and promote healthy, sustainable living for all. The Scraper Bike Team will use each work of bicycle art to impact social justice and global change.
posted by aniola at 10:22 AM on February 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
assuming bikes aren't specifically prohibited from the bridge
The Bay Bridge is literally US Interstate 80 (though it predates it) , so I'm pretty sure bicycles are prohibited.
posted by flamk at 2:33 PM on February 20, 2023
The Bay Bridge is literally US Interstate 80 (though it predates it) , so I'm pretty sure bicycles are prohibited.
posted by flamk at 2:33 PM on February 20, 2023
That's an organization called The Scraper Bike Team. I'm just using the term scraper bike. The SF Bicycle Coalition is not the same thing as "anyone on a bicycle in SF."
But this was not a protest organized by The Scraper Bike Team. This was just kids, some on scraper bikes, disrupting traffic because they could.
posted by AlSweigart at 3:23 PM on February 20, 2023
But this was not a protest organized by The Scraper Bike Team. This was just kids, some on scraper bikes, disrupting traffic because they could.
posted by AlSweigart at 3:23 PM on February 20, 2023
like the bicycles you find
in the windmills of your mind
posted by flabdablet at 9:52 PM on February 20, 2023
in the windmills of your mind
posted by flabdablet at 9:52 PM on February 20, 2023
I would consider any large group of cyclists riding together in contravention of current legal code to be a protest. Especially since most cyclists I know ride either solo or in small groups. But what do I know. I mean, look at 'em, they're not even in spandex or nice road bikes! Why I bet they drink crapy 7-11 coffee! Hooligans, that's what they are! There outa be a law!
posted by evilDoug at 8:39 PM on February 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 8:39 PM on February 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
« Older Showstoppers | Abolitionist creativity Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by flabdablet at 11:12 AM on February 19, 2023 [28 favorites]