"This is Baseball in 2023"
February 26, 2023 3:23 PM Subscribe
It's Day 2 of spring training games and the pitch clock is already wreaking havoc. It's the bottom of the ninth in yesterday's Spring Training game between the Boston Red Sox and the Atlanta Braves. The bases are loaded, two men are out, and the Braves' Cal Conley has a full count. What happens next? Conley is given a strike by the umpire for taking too long to get ready and the game is over. Welcome to the new MLB season and the new rules.
If the pitch clock is intended to make the game shorter, I have a better, albeit more radical and probably heretical solution: the seven-inning game. Or even more heretical, the five-inning game; with that you're in and out in two hours, tops. Of course, that would mean an entire new sport, really. But one I would get behind.
posted by zardoz at 4:05 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by zardoz at 4:05 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Go Giants!
posted by chavenet at 4:10 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 4:10 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
A seven inning or five inning game @zardoz? Never! When the hell are we supposed to sing Sweet Caroline?
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:23 PM on February 26, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:23 PM on February 26, 2023 [10 favorites]
How about some rule changes to create a much more engaging game;
* reduce the number of innings to two, twenty overs of six balls in an innings
* overarm bowling
* two batters at either ends of a crease with wickets
* it's T20 cricket
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 4:43 PM on February 26, 2023 [43 favorites]
* reduce the number of innings to two, twenty overs of six balls in an innings
* overarm bowling
* two batters at either ends of a crease with wickets
* it's T20 cricket
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 4:43 PM on February 26, 2023 [43 favorites]
Baseball should just own that it is the game that goes slowly. Baseball was great because it has the rhythm of a summer day.
It has already lost the fans that don't like its speed, and I'd be shocked if this won them back.
posted by drezdn at 4:44 PM on February 26, 2023 [28 favorites]
It has already lost the fans that don't like its speed, and I'd be shocked if this won them back.
posted by drezdn at 4:44 PM on February 26, 2023 [28 favorites]
Also, this is going to be a strange and tough year for baseball, as MLB's biggest regional television partner is going bankrupt, and another one is exiting the business by the end of the year.
posted by drezdn at 4:47 PM on February 26, 2023
posted by drezdn at 4:47 PM on February 26, 2023
as MLB's biggest regional television partner is going bankrupt
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer company. Good riddance.
posted by gc at 4:49 PM on February 26, 2023 [6 favorites]
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer company. Good riddance.
posted by gc at 4:49 PM on February 26, 2023 [6 favorites]
Look, let's just go back to T-ball. We were all happier then.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:56 PM on February 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:56 PM on February 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
I bought an MLB.TV subscription for the first time this season (with the 50% discount from the MLBPAA) and have been watching a bunch of Spring Training games. Hadn't watched much baseball in 20 years until last postseason.
At first I was bummed at the speed-up because I mostly just wanted something partially distracting on while working on other things, but I'm adjusting to what feels like a more predictable pace fairly quickly.
The players seem to be adapting really well; it's the commentary and replay that's struggling more to adjust I think. Overall, I'm coming around to really favor the changes. Hell, I'll probably even appreciate the ghost runner once that applies.
posted by otsebyatina at 4:58 PM on February 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
At first I was bummed at the speed-up because I mostly just wanted something partially distracting on while working on other things, but I'm adjusting to what feels like a more predictable pace fairly quickly.
The players seem to be adapting really well; it's the commentary and replay that's struggling more to adjust I think. Overall, I'm coming around to really favor the changes. Hell, I'll probably even appreciate the ghost runner once that applies.
posted by otsebyatina at 4:58 PM on February 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
Baseball was great because it has the rhythm of a summer day.
The problem is that almost all games are night games now! Who cares if a game runs 4 hours if it started at 1:06 pm?
posted by thecaddy at 5:21 PM on February 26, 2023 [13 favorites]
The problem is that almost all games are night games now! Who cares if a game runs 4 hours if it started at 1:06 pm?
posted by thecaddy at 5:21 PM on February 26, 2023 [13 favorites]
I like baseball the way it is. But I prefer minor league games to MLB. The problem with MLB to me is that everyone is so good at the game. It functions like a well-oiled machine. Everyone does exactly what they need to do and there is no excitement with that. I want to see more people fail to catch the ball. More people throw a bad throw. See a weird hit off a bad ball. If everyone is perfect it's not as fun. That's what's ruined MLB. They don't need to change the game.
posted by downtohisturtles at 5:45 PM on February 26, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 5:45 PM on February 26, 2023 [10 favorites]
I have a better, albeit more radical and probably heretical solution: the seven-inning game
Good news, it already exists! It's called Little League and games are six innings.
posted by rhizome at 6:08 PM on February 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
Good news, it already exists! It's called Little League and games are six innings.
posted by rhizome at 6:08 PM on February 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
I like baseball the way it is. But I prefer minor league games to MLB. The problem with MLB to me is that everyone is so good at the game. It functions like a well-oiled machine. Everyone does exactly what they need to do and there is no excitement with that. I want to see more people fail to catch the ball. More people throw a bad throw. See a weird hit off a bad ball. If everyone is perfect it's not as fun. That's what's ruined MLB. They don't need to change the game.
So what you are saying, if I am reading between the lines correctly, is that MLB should bring back cocaine.
posted by srboisvert at 6:13 PM on February 26, 2023 [24 favorites]
So what you are saying, if I am reading between the lines correctly, is that MLB should bring back cocaine.
posted by srboisvert at 6:13 PM on February 26, 2023 [24 favorites]
I've been a Phillies fan since I was in second grade, and even I was getting to the point where I wished some of the games were shorter during their last playoff run. I might have felt different if I actually still lived in Philadelphia and could go to a bar with fellow Phillies fans, but unfortuantely I don't.
posted by eagles123 at 6:28 PM on February 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by eagles123 at 6:28 PM on February 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
Mrs. Calamari is quite irked with the pitch clock, I'm taking a wait and see approach. Quicker games may mean I get to see more complete games during the work week before my bedtime. I'm curious to see how banning the shift will play out and hope the predictions of more baserunners are accurate.
Which of the regional sports networks are tanking? I've missed that news, please tell me Root is one of them.
However it all plays out I have high hopes for my Mariners this year, should be a good one. GOMS!
posted by calamari kid at 6:31 PM on February 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
Which of the regional sports networks are tanking? I've missed that news, please tell me Root is one of them.
However it all plays out I have high hopes for my Mariners this year, should be a good one. GOMS!
posted by calamari kid at 6:31 PM on February 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." Earl Weaver.
MLB killed one of the most exciting situations of the game just to shave off 30 minutes. Imagine losing a playoff game because you took a few extra seconds to get ready.
posted by stltony at 6:33 PM on February 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
MLB killed one of the most exciting situations of the game just to shave off 30 minutes. Imagine losing a playoff game because you took a few extra seconds to get ready.
posted by stltony at 6:33 PM on February 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
. If everyone is perfect it's not as fun. That's what's ruined MLB. They don't need to change the game.
I am a long-time baseball fan. I’ve played in a tabletop baseball game league (uses dice and charts and cards) for 27 years. I am invested in a way lots people can never approach.
MLB is far from perfect.
It is an endless parade of pitchers throwing at max-effort against hitters that figured out the best way to score runs is to hit the ball far. It’s boring and it makes way too much money so it won’t change any time soon. It’s hard to make contact and nobody hits singles any more. Stolen bases don’t happen much because the threat of an extra-base hit trumps going one base at a time via steals.
It’s boring.
I am ambivalent about the pitch clock. My personal opinion is that the first time a regular season game gets decided by a pitch clock violation, the rules will be changed.
I am more concerned about the rules surrounding where players are allowed to stand in the field now. By caving in to the whining about “the shift”, they are providing an advantage to one type of player: the slow, left-handed, pull hitter. A few more bloop singles to short right field will happen.
My prediction: there will be a minor boost in offense but 2020’s baseball will remain one with low batting averages, tons of strikeouts, and the amount of homers will vary depending on how much MLB messes with the ball in-season (which they have started doing).
posted by grmpyprogrammer at 6:37 PM on February 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
I am a long-time baseball fan. I’ve played in a tabletop baseball game league (uses dice and charts and cards) for 27 years. I am invested in a way lots people can never approach.
MLB is far from perfect.
It is an endless parade of pitchers throwing at max-effort against hitters that figured out the best way to score runs is to hit the ball far. It’s boring and it makes way too much money so it won’t change any time soon. It’s hard to make contact and nobody hits singles any more. Stolen bases don’t happen much because the threat of an extra-base hit trumps going one base at a time via steals.
It’s boring.
I am ambivalent about the pitch clock. My personal opinion is that the first time a regular season game gets decided by a pitch clock violation, the rules will be changed.
I am more concerned about the rules surrounding where players are allowed to stand in the field now. By caving in to the whining about “the shift”, they are providing an advantage to one type of player: the slow, left-handed, pull hitter. A few more bloop singles to short right field will happen.
My prediction: there will be a minor boost in offense but 2020’s baseball will remain one with low batting averages, tons of strikeouts, and the amount of homers will vary depending on how much MLB messes with the ball in-season (which they have started doing).
posted by grmpyprogrammer at 6:37 PM on February 26, 2023 [7 favorites]
I'm also sticking with the minor leagues, because I live way out in the sticks, and we play teams like the Rocket City Trash Pandas. But I kinda like their swag, as well as that of the Jacksonville Jumbo Shrimp.
posted by credulous at 6:37 PM on February 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by credulous at 6:37 PM on February 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
The only one of these changes that I'm not neutral-to-positive on is the shift ban. The pitch clock will cause mayhem for a little while but I expect it will be pretty transparent once the league has adjusted to it, and I think that adjustment will be pretty much done by the end of spring training. Larger bases are a plausible way to reduce injury risk on high-effort baserunning plays. The pitching motion thing... meh, I dunno. If it clarifies what actually constitutes a balk, great. It's a bummer for a handful of pitchers who will actually have to change their setup a lot.
But to me, the shift ban just feels like outlawing the most effective way to play the game simply because it's the most effective.
Which of the regional sports networks are tanking? I've missed that news, please tell me Root is one of them.
The big one is Bally Sports, whose parent company Diamond Sports Group is on the edge of bankruptcy. (The "good riddance" comment above might be a reference to the fact that Diamond is itself a part of Sinclair, famous for buying up local news stations and turning them into right-wing propaganda outlets. But that's a story for another thread...)
posted by egregious theorem at 6:42 PM on February 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
But to me, the shift ban just feels like outlawing the most effective way to play the game simply because it's the most effective.
Which of the regional sports networks are tanking? I've missed that news, please tell me Root is one of them.
The big one is Bally Sports, whose parent company Diamond Sports Group is on the edge of bankruptcy. (The "good riddance" comment above might be a reference to the fact that Diamond is itself a part of Sinclair, famous for buying up local news stations and turning them into right-wing propaganda outlets. But that's a story for another thread...)
posted by egregious theorem at 6:42 PM on February 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
So what you are saying, if I am reading between the lines correctly, is that MLB should bring back cocaine.
...I mean, this is a puerile thought, but what if instead of different divisions of sports separated by skill, instead they were organized by substance abuse?
You could pick your fandom based on whether you'd rather see sport played on uppers, downers or psychedelics.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 6:45 PM on February 26, 2023 [12 favorites]
...I mean, this is a puerile thought, but what if instead of different divisions of sports separated by skill, instead they were organized by substance abuse?
You could pick your fandom based on whether you'd rather see sport played on uppers, downers or psychedelics.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 6:45 PM on February 26, 2023 [12 favorites]
So what you are saying, if I am reading between the lines correctly, is that MLB should bring back cocaine.
Every game should have one player from each team on MLB issued acid. Could be the pitcher, could be the mascot, could be the manager.
posted by clockwork at 6:47 PM on February 26, 2023 [13 favorites]
Every game should have one player from each team on MLB issued acid. Could be the pitcher, could be the mascot, could be the manager.
posted by clockwork at 6:47 PM on February 26, 2023 [13 favorites]
Let me know when the teams get together to charge the mound and melt the Coin.
posted by curious nu at 6:49 PM on February 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by curious nu at 6:49 PM on February 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
Every game should have one player from each team on MLB issued acid.
Will both Leagues allow Designated Druggies?
posted by CCBC at 6:51 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Will both Leagues allow Designated Druggies?
posted by CCBC at 6:51 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Banning the shift feels like saying, "You are too smart. Please do not adjust your play to suit my abilities." It's asking your opponent to not play the mental game.
And as for the clock, I am for it. Of course, Nomar Garciaparra is thanking his lucky stars he's already retired.
The guys on this week's "Hang Up And Listen" podcast were talking about the "ghost runners" and one pointed out that they should be called "unearned runners" because any runs scored that way do not count against the pitcher -- they are unearned runs. I like that symmetry.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:20 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
And as for the clock, I am for it. Of course, Nomar Garciaparra is thanking his lucky stars he's already retired.
The guys on this week's "Hang Up And Listen" podcast were talking about the "ghost runners" and one pointed out that they should be called "unearned runners" because any runs scored that way do not count against the pitcher -- they are unearned runs. I like that symmetry.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:20 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
You could pick your fandom based on whether you'd rather see sport played on uppers, downers or psychedelics.
I've seen baseball while on acid! You know that tracer they have on the ball during a replay when someone hits a homer? I was about 30 years ahead of that technology.
Or: I've seen baseball while on acid! You ever watch Bill Lee/Mark Fidrych/Dock Ellis pitch?
posted by not_on_display at 7:21 PM on February 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've seen baseball while on acid! You know that tracer they have on the ball during a replay when someone hits a homer? I was about 30 years ahead of that technology.
Or: I've seen baseball while on acid! You ever watch Bill Lee/Mark Fidrych/Dock Ellis pitch?
posted by not_on_display at 7:21 PM on February 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
I like baseball the way it is. But I prefer minor league games to MLB. The problem with MLB to me is that everyone is so good at the game. It functions like a well-oiled machine. Everyone does exactly what they need to do and there is no excitement with that. I want to see more people fail to catch the ball. More people throw a bad throw. See a weird hit off a bad ball. If everyone is perfect it's not as fun. That's what's ruined MLB. They don't need to change the game.
Listen, have you tried going to a little league game? Cause that might totally be your thing.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:34 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Listen, have you tried going to a little league game? Cause that might totally be your thing.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:34 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
A seven inning or five inning game @zardoz? Never! When the hell are we supposed to sing Sweet Caroline?
posted by Nanukthedog at 7:23 PM on February 26
Well, ideally never.
go jays
posted by ZaphodB at 7:38 PM on February 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 7:23 PM on February 26
Well, ideally never.
go jays
posted by ZaphodB at 7:38 PM on February 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
I have a better, albeit more radical and probably heretical solution: the seven-inning game
Good news, it already exists! It's called Little League and games are six innings.
So my son is 5 and a huge baseball fan and so eager to start little league instructional level this spring. Last year when he found out little league exists, he begged to go to a game. So we went. OMG...first of all, at the umpires (or whoever's) discretion, they actually can go more than 7 innings, and they did! I swear every single player who got to first base stole their way to third. Usually within the next at bat. I felt like this game lasted FOREVER. My son and I go to MLB games all the time and I have no issue with their (former) length. But this little league game....oh god... anyway, that's my fate this spring I guess. 7+ inning eternal games.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:38 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Good news, it already exists! It's called Little League and games are six innings.
So my son is 5 and a huge baseball fan and so eager to start little league instructional level this spring. Last year when he found out little league exists, he begged to go to a game. So we went. OMG...first of all, at the umpires (or whoever's) discretion, they actually can go more than 7 innings, and they did! I swear every single player who got to first base stole their way to third. Usually within the next at bat. I felt like this game lasted FOREVER. My son and I go to MLB games all the time and I have no issue with their (former) length. But this little league game....oh god... anyway, that's my fate this spring I guess. 7+ inning eternal games.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:38 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
A seven inning or five inning game @zardoz? Never! When the hell are we supposed to sing Sweet Caroline?
posted by Nanukthedog at 7:23 PM on February 26
Well, ideally never.
go jays
I'm still not over the Jays shortening "Let's go Blue Jays" so they could sing that stupid take me out to the ballgame song. Bring back the verses to let's go Blue Jays and get rid of that other song. That's not our song. I never sing it. My son sings it because he was born after this abomination started and he doesn't' know any better. But he does the (too short) 7th inning stretch, at least.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:40 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 7:23 PM on February 26
Well, ideally never.
go jays
I'm still not over the Jays shortening "Let's go Blue Jays" so they could sing that stupid take me out to the ballgame song. Bring back the verses to let's go Blue Jays and get rid of that other song. That's not our song. I never sing it. My son sings it because he was born after this abomination started and he doesn't' know any better. But he does the (too short) 7th inning stretch, at least.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:40 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ok, i promise this is my last comment in this post (for a few hours)....
Banning the shift feels like saying, "You are too smart. Please do not adjust your play to suit my abilities." It's asking your opponent to not play the mental game.
I feel this way about making it against the rules to steal signs. I think sign stealing should be fair game. Otherwise why not just hold up a sign that says "Next pitch, fast ball high and outside" and just demand that the batter close their eyes? Like if you're not smart enough to make signs that can't be easily read, then you deserve to have your signs stolen. I mean don't break into the club house and steal the list, but if you can figure out the code, that's fair play in my book.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:45 PM on February 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
Banning the shift feels like saying, "You are too smart. Please do not adjust your play to suit my abilities." It's asking your opponent to not play the mental game.
I feel this way about making it against the rules to steal signs. I think sign stealing should be fair game. Otherwise why not just hold up a sign that says "Next pitch, fast ball high and outside" and just demand that the batter close their eyes? Like if you're not smart enough to make signs that can't be easily read, then you deserve to have your signs stolen. I mean don't break into the club house and steal the list, but if you can figure out the code, that's fair play in my book.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:45 PM on February 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
Regarding drugs, I still remember Lenny Dkystra looking like a chipmunk on the 93 Phillies world series team with all the chew he had stuffed in his mouth. I guess nicotine is the anti-christ now, but enterprising major leaguers should still be able to get legally prescribed stimulents by convincing some doctor they have ADHD. Considering it seems like three quarters of the US adult population is getting that diagnosis (hello Ritalin shortage), that shouldn't be too difficult. I still swear I could tell whether or not Cliff Lee took his medication correctly when he was on the Phillies. Then Carlos Ruiz got popped for illegal stim use (I forget which drug) a season later .....
posted by eagles123 at 8:13 PM on February 26, 2023
posted by eagles123 at 8:13 PM on February 26, 2023
Will both Leagues allow Designated Druggies?
The official term certainly will be that there's one person on each team taking a Designated Hit.
posted by tclark at 8:44 PM on February 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
The official term certainly will be that there's one person on each team taking a Designated Hit.
posted by tclark at 8:44 PM on February 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
Uh, I don't know if the drugs will handicap them that much. This guy threw a no-hitter on LSD.
[snip]
Ellis threw a no-hitter on June 12, 1970, and later stated that he accomplished the feat under the influence of LSD.[1] Ellis was the starting pitcher for the National League in the All-Star Game in 1971 and later that year, the Pirates won the World Series.
posted by aleph at 8:54 PM on February 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
[snip]
Ellis threw a no-hitter on June 12, 1970, and later stated that he accomplished the feat under the influence of LSD.[1] Ellis was the starting pitcher for the National League in the All-Star Game in 1971 and later that year, the Pirates won the World Series.
posted by aleph at 8:54 PM on February 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
Well I'm excited for the changes. The endless staredowns and calls for time are just awful and a relatively new phenomenon. The pitch clock forces everyone to get back to it.
Lefties will definitely benefit from the shift ban, but athleticism of 1st and 2nd basemen will become prized as a result. Endless hits taken away by perfectly positioned players goes away. More offense, nice!
And the limit to the number of pickoff attempts and the larger bases means more steals. There's going to be more exciting small ball opportunities.
To hell with baseball as the platonic ideal of sport. Make it harder to be boring and predictable.
posted by rouftop at 8:57 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Lefties will definitely benefit from the shift ban, but athleticism of 1st and 2nd basemen will become prized as a result. Endless hits taken away by perfectly positioned players goes away. More offense, nice!
And the limit to the number of pickoff attempts and the larger bases means more steals. There's going to be more exciting small ball opportunities.
To hell with baseball as the platonic ideal of sport. Make it harder to be boring and predictable.
posted by rouftop at 8:57 PM on February 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Every game should have one player from each team on MLB issued acid. Could be the pitcher, could be the mascot, could be the manager.
I'd up the randomness by making sure everyone involved had a cup of koolaid roughly 45 minutes before game time, but only one cup for each team wouldn't be a placebo. As acid generally takes ninety minutes to two hours to fully kick in, whoever got the "lucky" cup would be well into the game before he realized ...
Of course, the play by play crowd would be keeping a keen eye on things, noting any strange behaviour on field or in the dugout. Cameras would zoom in. Smiles would be analyzed.
And I think it's only fair that one of the umpires should get dosed as well.
posted by philip-random at 9:16 PM on February 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'd up the randomness by making sure everyone involved had a cup of koolaid roughly 45 minutes before game time, but only one cup for each team wouldn't be a placebo. As acid generally takes ninety minutes to two hours to fully kick in, whoever got the "lucky" cup would be well into the game before he realized ...
Of course, the play by play crowd would be keeping a keen eye on things, noting any strange behaviour on field or in the dugout. Cameras would zoom in. Smiles would be analyzed.
And I think it's only fair that one of the umpires should get dosed as well.
posted by philip-random at 9:16 PM on February 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
Watched a fair amount of Cal League low-A games last season (go Quakes and 66ers) because I've always loved the minors more than the majors. I'm with downtohisturtles - the minors, they make mistakes. Mistakes are exciting!
So... anyway - last season - the pitch clock was there and the players dealt with it just fine. Games definitely moved with a bit more alacrity.
Never saw a violation called - and that's at the low A level - I suspect the Majors will adjust just fine. Every team will get screwed once and everyone will be the happy receiver of said screw up. The fans will grouse when it goes against and call for Manfred's head on a pike and cheer and jeer the other team when it falls their way.
ETA: Also, as a lifelong Sox fan, I'm going to add Manny getting called for the first violation to my list of moments to savor while wishing bad things on his head.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:19 PM on February 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
So... anyway - last season - the pitch clock was there and the players dealt with it just fine. Games definitely moved with a bit more alacrity.
Never saw a violation called - and that's at the low A level - I suspect the Majors will adjust just fine. Every team will get screwed once and everyone will be the happy receiver of said screw up. The fans will grouse when it goes against and call for Manfred's head on a pike and cheer and jeer the other team when it falls their way.
ETA: Also, as a lifelong Sox fan, I'm going to add Manny getting called for the first violation to my list of moments to savor while wishing bad things on his head.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:19 PM on February 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
Can you have ADHD and play professional baseball? That sounds like a nightmare to me. All that sitting around, waiting...
posted by Jacen at 11:19 PM on February 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacen at 11:19 PM on February 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
Listen, have you tried going to a little league game?
I played in those games for many years haha. But you're right. Watching the junior series championships they show on ESPN once a year is absolutely the best baseball. They're in it. They want it. They're not earning 10 mil a year for it. They just wanna play.
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:37 AM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I played in those games for many years haha. But you're right. Watching the junior series championships they show on ESPN once a year is absolutely the best baseball. They're in it. They want it. They're not earning 10 mil a year for it. They just wanna play.
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:37 AM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
So far, I like all these changes, even the ghost runner (or as I think I shall always call it, the Manfred Man). And I like the notion of baseball getting constant rule tweaks like a TTRPG's late-edition supplements.
But if I were commissioner, I would test/introduce changes like these in one league or the other for at least a few years. E.g., AL gets no shift restrictions but does get a pitch clock, NL the opposite. I dislike the AL and NL having nothing to differentiate them. Admittedly, that may simply be the pull of the past talking.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:58 AM on February 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
But if I were commissioner, I would test/introduce changes like these in one league or the other for at least a few years. E.g., AL gets no shift restrictions but does get a pitch clock, NL the opposite. I dislike the AL and NL having nothing to differentiate them. Admittedly, that may simply be the pull of the past talking.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:58 AM on February 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Now that baseball has followed basketball's shot clock lead, it sounds like y'all want it to follow basketball's March Madness lead, too, giving you some games with a little less predictability and professionalism that the whole [sporting] country is nonetheless invested in.
posted by clawsoon at 4:26 AM on February 27, 2023
posted by clawsoon at 4:26 AM on February 27, 2023
I'd up the randomness by making sure everyone involved had a cup of koolaid roughly 45 minutes before game time
they could turn it into a promotion - 10c kool-aid night - what could go wrong?
posted by pyramid termite at 4:26 AM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
they could turn it into a promotion - 10c kool-aid night - what could go wrong?
posted by pyramid termite at 4:26 AM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I feel this way about making it against the rules to steal signs.
I guess I would prefer the Vegas method to this. If you’re able to count blackjack in your head, you’re not going to jail. But use a computer, and you are.
Using video cameras in the outfield to steal the signs, then the guys in the dugout somehow relaying that into to the batter is the computer, here.
posted by hwyengr at 4:57 AM on February 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
I guess I would prefer the Vegas method to this. If you’re able to count blackjack in your head, you’re not going to jail. But use a computer, and you are.
Using video cameras in the outfield to steal the signs, then the guys in the dugout somehow relaying that into to the batter is the computer, here.
posted by hwyengr at 4:57 AM on February 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
I’ve been turning this ghost runner rule over in my head and I think we can make it better.
- everyone gets a ghost runner when they get a hit
- actually, since no one is actually running, we can get rid of the bases all together
- we’re going to need a way to tell how far a runner actually runs, so we’ll put some zones out in the outfield for doubles and triples. Ball lands in one of those, those are doubles or triples
- while we’re at it, to make things a little harder, we can make the ball smaller and the bat thinner
- …okay so now it’s corkball
posted by gc at 7:03 AM on February 27, 2023
- everyone gets a ghost runner when they get a hit
- actually, since no one is actually running, we can get rid of the bases all together
- we’re going to need a way to tell how far a runner actually runs, so we’ll put some zones out in the outfield for doubles and triples. Ball lands in one of those, those are doubles or triples
- while we’re at it, to make things a little harder, we can make the ball smaller and the bat thinner
- …okay so now it’s corkball
posted by gc at 7:03 AM on February 27, 2023
The designated hitter is still an abomination. They put it in my beloved National League and aren't taking it out and I'm salty as hell about it.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 7:27 AM on February 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 7:27 AM on February 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
Technologically unassisted sign-stealing has always been an accepted practice. It's why they try to obscure the signs. One interesting part of the new pitch clock rule is that the dugout will have less time to communicate signs to the field. Prior practice had been to obscure the "real signs" with long strings of meaningless "dummy signs." Under the new rules, Mets manager Buck Showalter has implied that they're considering using college football style placards instead of hand signs, since it's a quicker way to surround the "real signs" with jibberish.
posted by AndrewInDC at 8:48 AM on February 27, 2023
posted by AndrewInDC at 8:48 AM on February 27, 2023
Uh, I don't know if the drugs will handicap them that much. This guy threw a no-hitter on LSD.
You hear a lot about Dock Ellis, but you don't hear a lot about all the *other* games that were pitched on LSD.
You know there had to have been at least a few.
posted by saturday_morning at 9:04 AM on February 27, 2023
You hear a lot about Dock Ellis, but you don't hear a lot about all the *other* games that were pitched on LSD.
You know there had to have been at least a few.
posted by saturday_morning at 9:04 AM on February 27, 2023
Why the Pitch Clock Rule Is a Blessing, in One Short Clip:
Video of one of Jose Altuve's inside-the-park home runs loops SEVEN TIMES between Pedro Baez throwing to the plate in the 2016 NLCS.
It's not just about making the games shorter, it's about thinning out some of the interminable downtime. The pitch clock isn't changing the pastoral nature of the game, it's just putting a cap on how long players can stretch, give the stink-eye, stall, or adjust their crotches between action.
I've watched two games with it and they were both much more brisk and easy to enjoy.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:22 AM on February 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
Video of one of Jose Altuve's inside-the-park home runs loops SEVEN TIMES between Pedro Baez throwing to the plate in the 2016 NLCS.
It's not just about making the games shorter, it's about thinning out some of the interminable downtime. The pitch clock isn't changing the pastoral nature of the game, it's just putting a cap on how long players can stretch, give the stink-eye, stall, or adjust their crotches between action.
I've watched two games with it and they were both much more brisk and easy to enjoy.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:22 AM on February 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
I like the pace of play changes.
Out of 33 games over the first two days of spring training only 5 went over three hours and the longest was 3:06. 4 of the 5 that went long involved one team scoring 10 or more runs and the other team in the high single digits. The shortest game was just over two hours.
I’ve watched a few innings of these games and it is so much better to see the players getting ready to go. I’m sure the fielders are appreciating it as well.
posted by jvbthegolfer at 9:36 AM on February 27, 2023
Out of 33 games over the first two days of spring training only 5 went over three hours and the longest was 3:06. 4 of the 5 that went long involved one team scoring 10 or more runs and the other team in the high single digits. The shortest game was just over two hours.
I’ve watched a few innings of these games and it is so much better to see the players getting ready to go. I’m sure the fielders are appreciating it as well.
posted by jvbthegolfer at 9:36 AM on February 27, 2023
I'll be curious to see what this does to stats. The players I've known (mostly pitchers, oddly) are deeeeeeply weird and strange people with their rituals and I've no doubt this will mess with them for a bit.
And DOT - you know it's bad when the p2p announcer has to prompt the color guy for more fill while they wait for some action to happen!
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:42 AM on February 27, 2023
And DOT - you know it's bad when the p2p announcer has to prompt the color guy for more fill while they wait for some action to happen!
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:42 AM on February 27, 2023
Banning the shift feels like saying, "You are too smart. Please do not adjust your play to suit my abilities." It's asking your opponent to not play the mental game.
This was actually the stance I had for a while, too. But of all the changes this season, I feel that this has the most opportunity to move away from boring three-true-outcomes ball and bring some flukiness back. It is BORING, with the shift, for most plays to end in either a groundout or a homerun. Keeping two infielders on either side of home plate means that there's significantly more chance to put the ball in play.
And, honestly, putting limits on where players can be on the field/pitch/court is a common rule in many sports, so it doesn't feel to me like it's some sacrilegious new rule.. In basketball you can't park yourself in the key; offside rules are key to soccer and hockey. Those rules open up the game; they don't shut it down. (We can agree to disagree about soccer here.)
I actually want them to go even further and bar players from standing directly behind second base (even more similar to the key in basketball), as they're testing in the minor leagues now. Bring back the single up the middle!
posted by thecaddy at 9:48 AM on February 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
This was actually the stance I had for a while, too. But of all the changes this season, I feel that this has the most opportunity to move away from boring three-true-outcomes ball and bring some flukiness back. It is BORING, with the shift, for most plays to end in either a groundout or a homerun. Keeping two infielders on either side of home plate means that there's significantly more chance to put the ball in play.
And, honestly, putting limits on where players can be on the field/pitch/court is a common rule in many sports, so it doesn't feel to me like it's some sacrilegious new rule.. In basketball you can't park yourself in the key; offside rules are key to soccer and hockey. Those rules open up the game; they don't shut it down. (We can agree to disagree about soccer here.)
I actually want them to go even further and bar players from standing directly behind second base (even more similar to the key in basketball), as they're testing in the minor leagues now. Bring back the single up the middle!
posted by thecaddy at 9:48 AM on February 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Baseball should just own that it is the game that goes slowly. Baseball was great because it has the rhythm of a summer day.
The recent changes are trying to get baseball back to the rhythm it historically had. Even back in 1995 (when the average length was 2:50), there was some alarm that games were getting longer and longer. Per that link, through the 1940s the average game time was between 2 hours flat and 2:19. By 1980 it was up to 2:33. By 2020 it was 2:58. And last year it approached 3:10. So the game has gotten 50% longer over 70 years and almost 25% longer than it was in 1980.
Even with the pitch clock baseball is still a slow and contemplative and strategic game. I am all for making changes to try to save what relevance they can. (And even better that it happened in a final inning, bases loaded situation in spring training so players can get used to the gravity of the consequences and find the new rhythm by opening day.)
posted by AgentRocket at 9:59 AM on February 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
The recent changes are trying to get baseball back to the rhythm it historically had. Even back in 1995 (when the average length was 2:50), there was some alarm that games were getting longer and longer. Per that link, through the 1940s the average game time was between 2 hours flat and 2:19. By 1980 it was up to 2:33. By 2020 it was 2:58. And last year it approached 3:10. So the game has gotten 50% longer over 70 years and almost 25% longer than it was in 1980.
Even with the pitch clock baseball is still a slow and contemplative and strategic game. I am all for making changes to try to save what relevance they can. (And even better that it happened in a final inning, bases loaded situation in spring training so players can get used to the gravity of the consequences and find the new rhythm by opening day.)
posted by AgentRocket at 9:59 AM on February 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
How about some rule changes to create a much more engaging game;
* reduce the number of innings to two, twenty overs of six balls in an innings
* overarm bowling
* two batters at either ends of a crease with wickets
* it's T20 cricket
T20 and ODI cricket are a single inning only. Test cricket is where you get two whole innings, but man, if you think MLB is slow, have I got some fascinating news about test cricket.
(I love test cricket, btw. The five days are filled with a million decisions on strategy to ensure a win by the clearly superior squad and strategy to get to a no decision by the other squad)
posted by NoMich at 10:14 AM on February 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
* reduce the number of innings to two, twenty overs of six balls in an innings
* overarm bowling
* two batters at either ends of a crease with wickets
* it's T20 cricket
T20 and ODI cricket are a single inning only. Test cricket is where you get two whole innings, but man, if you think MLB is slow, have I got some fascinating news about test cricket.
(I love test cricket, btw. The five days are filled with a million decisions on strategy to ensure a win by the clearly superior squad and strategy to get to a no decision by the other squad)
posted by NoMich at 10:14 AM on February 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
The NCAA has been using the pitch clock since 2011 and MiLB has been using one since 2015 so I think a lot of current players have experience with them by now. Also, if a team loses a game because a guy on said team couldn't get his shit together in time, then that's on the guy. As AgentRocket pointed out above, the amount of time it takes to complete a game has sky rocketed by a ridiculous amount as of late.
posted by NoMich at 10:22 AM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by NoMich at 10:22 AM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
On the subject of sign-stealing, I do feel like forbidding it falls into an unhappy grey area on what I (coming from a mostly boardgaming perspective) think of as the three basic models of communication in games:
So how does all this relate to baseball? Well, it seems like it ought to decide what kind of game it wants to be. If it's the second, stealing signs is totally a valid (if emergent) part of the game. If it's the first, they ought to issue everyone an earpiece subvocal mic and be satisfied that everyone can communicate uninterceptably. If it's the third, they should ban signs except for specific agreed-upon ones.
posted by jackbishop at 10:55 AM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
- extraludic secret communication: any game where you can pass notes or whisper and doing so is basically considered permissible and not "cheating".
- intraludic secret communication: you can communicate secretly in-game through open statements which some number of other players might not be able to interpret (but may learn how to).
- no secret communication: no secret communication, even within the game's framework, is allowed; all communications must be open.
So how does all this relate to baseball? Well, it seems like it ought to decide what kind of game it wants to be. If it's the second, stealing signs is totally a valid (if emergent) part of the game. If it's the first, they ought to issue everyone an earpiece subvocal mic and be satisfied that everyone can communicate uninterceptably. If it's the third, they should ban signs except for specific agreed-upon ones.
posted by jackbishop at 10:55 AM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've been meaning to try and watch Finnish baseball (pesäpallo) on YouTube or something. In that game, balls hit over the fence are foul balls. I imagine that makes for a completely different game.
posted by Ampersand692 at 11:01 AM on February 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Ampersand692 at 11:01 AM on February 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Baseball has a pretty well-defined ethos when it comes to sign-stealing: anything that can be accomplished strictly from the field and/or dugouts by players and communicated openly (even if coded) at risk of being noticed is fair. See the signs at the plate while you're a runner on second and let the batter know? Fair. Notice from the dugout that the pitcher's head always tilts left when he agrees to a curveball so you tell the guy in the on-deck circle? Fair. Those things are as old as the game and completely allowed.
What's already against the rules and what they're trying to crack down on is the use of off-field personnel and technology to steal signs. Intern watching the game live on TV sees the signs, relays what pitch is coming to the Apple watch of the bench coach who yells a code to the batter? Cheating. (Not a hypothetical, that one happened.) Hidden camera in the outfield picks up the signs and someone in the trainer's room bangs a trash can? Cheating. (Also happened, of course.)
The dividing lines are very well-established: off-field personnel and/or technology are cheating.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:03 AM on February 27, 2023 [11 favorites]
What's already against the rules and what they're trying to crack down on is the use of off-field personnel and technology to steal signs. Intern watching the game live on TV sees the signs, relays what pitch is coming to the Apple watch of the bench coach who yells a code to the batter? Cheating. (Not a hypothetical, that one happened.) Hidden camera in the outfield picks up the signs and someone in the trainer's room bangs a trash can? Cheating. (Also happened, of course.)
The dividing lines are very well-established: off-field personnel and/or technology are cheating.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:03 AM on February 27, 2023 [11 favorites]
I am for most of the rule changes for the upcoming season. Except, I would prefer the Manfred Man beginning 13th inning. Before the introduction of this; around 85 percent of the extra-inning games ended before 12th anyway. But if the priority is to end the game as quickly as possible; both for watching purposes and saving the bullpens; I am okay with it. Especially with the expansion of WC slots and a more balanced schedule; competitive issues take precedence anyway.
The banning of the shifts was overdue. The three true outcome nature of the evolution of the game was making it unwatchable; especially on TV. Cricket has fielder placement restrictions for ODI and T20; and if anything that has made the game exciting. One thing I would do is restrict the area/size of outfielder gloves. They are enormous baskets now. Make them smaller so you have some dropped flies if you misplay them.
Clocks were already there for pitchers. Now they have added a wrinkle to the hitters as well. Which makes it equitable, I guess. If the pitcher is ready, you better be in the box ready to receive. One thing I would have liked to add was to make the batter stand in the box for the whole at-bat. No more peregrinations.
Also, along with making the first base larger; why did they not make half of it flat to the ground like home plate? That way the runner does not have to worry about stepping on the edges and twisting their ankles. And the regular half will give the first baseman the chance to tag without having to feel around for the base.
But I am looking forward to my 20 game package for the White Sox. I may actually have time to stop in Chinatown after the game for a late night nosh!
posted by indianbadger1 at 2:20 PM on February 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
The banning of the shifts was overdue. The three true outcome nature of the evolution of the game was making it unwatchable; especially on TV. Cricket has fielder placement restrictions for ODI and T20; and if anything that has made the game exciting. One thing I would do is restrict the area/size of outfielder gloves. They are enormous baskets now. Make them smaller so you have some dropped flies if you misplay them.
Clocks were already there for pitchers. Now they have added a wrinkle to the hitters as well. Which makes it equitable, I guess. If the pitcher is ready, you better be in the box ready to receive. One thing I would have liked to add was to make the batter stand in the box for the whole at-bat. No more peregrinations.
Also, along with making the first base larger; why did they not make half of it flat to the ground like home plate? That way the runner does not have to worry about stepping on the edges and twisting their ankles. And the regular half will give the first baseman the chance to tag without having to feel around for the base.
But I am looking forward to my 20 game package for the White Sox. I may actually have time to stop in Chinatown after the game for a late night nosh!
posted by indianbadger1 at 2:20 PM on February 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm waiting for a catcher to figure out that if he has a slow put her, he can give him extra time between pitches by holding onto the ball longer before tossing it back.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:59 PM on February 27, 2023
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:59 PM on February 27, 2023
I would require the catcher to stay in his regular catching position during intentional walks. A major league battery ought to be able to throw four balls on purpose without the catcher standing up.
Either that, or just send the guy directly to first.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:19 PM on February 27, 2023
Either that, or just send the guy directly to first.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:19 PM on February 27, 2023
Either that, or just send the guy directly to first.
They already implemented that, not sure if it was last year or earlier.
posted by calamari kid at 6:56 PM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
They already implemented that, not sure if it was last year or earlier.
posted by calamari kid at 6:56 PM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Can you have ADHD and play professional baseball? That sounds like a nightmare to me. All that sitting around, waiting...
posted by Jacen at 2:19 AM on February 27
Now I'm genuinely wondering if some classic baseball habits, like gum chewing or sunflower seed spitting, have stuck around in part because they are ways of stimming for ADHD players.
posted by ZaphodB at 7:43 PM on February 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 2:19 AM on February 27
Now I'm genuinely wondering if some classic baseball habits, like gum chewing or sunflower seed spitting, have stuck around in part because they are ways of stimming for ADHD players.
posted by ZaphodB at 7:43 PM on February 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Also, along with making the first base larger; why did they not make half of it flat to the ground like home plate? That way the runner does not have to worry about stepping on the edges and twisting their ankles. And the regular half will give the first baseman the chance to tag without having to feel around for the base.
Excellent question! I would genuinely love to hear the answer for this. It could be that the design never came up at MLB's offices
posted by NoMich at 6:18 AM on February 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Excellent question! I would genuinely love to hear the answer for this. It could be that the design never came up at MLB's offices
posted by NoMich at 6:18 AM on February 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
They have actually talked about making first base flat like home plate so that no one will Jason Kendall themselves.
Not sure if they dropped that or decided to do the larger bases first.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:24 AM on February 28, 2023
Not sure if they dropped that or decided to do the larger bases first.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:24 AM on February 28, 2023
Baseball is for listening to as you drive across the Great Plains.
And playoff baseball is as tense as it gets.
“Ohhhhhhhh people will come Ray. People will most definitely come”
Go Mariners!
posted by Windopaene at 1:19 PM on February 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
And playoff baseball is as tense as it gets.
“Ohhhhhhhh people will come Ray. People will most definitely come”
Go Mariners!
posted by Windopaene at 1:19 PM on February 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Many of you make good arguments for and against these changes.
I wish we could submit our preferred rule sets and teams/players to an AI -- maybe with modifiers about how high-scoring we want it to be -- in order to get bespoke fictional game broadcasts, like customizable Northwoods Sleep Baseball (https://www.sleepbaseball.com, previously).
posted by wenestvedt at 1:39 PM on February 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
I wish we could submit our preferred rule sets and teams/players to an AI -- maybe with modifiers about how high-scoring we want it to be -- in order to get bespoke fictional game broadcasts, like customizable Northwoods Sleep Baseball (https://www.sleepbaseball.com, previously).
posted by wenestvedt at 1:39 PM on February 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
So obviously you can find extreme examples if you look hard enough, but I honestly don’t think this video is misleading, because good lord I’ve seen the situation on the right way too much. Half inning with pitch clock vs one pitch without it.
posted by azpenguin at 6:17 AM on March 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 6:17 AM on March 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
Isn't it kind of weird that the catcher isn't in position until 5 seconds left? He's still standing at 8...7...6...I guess the 8-second rule only applies to the batter?
posted by mediareport at 5:41 PM on March 1, 2023
posted by mediareport at 5:41 PM on March 1, 2023
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posted by azpenguin at 3:57 PM on February 26, 2023 [11 favorites]