I Can Protect His Future, but She Can’t Be Helped
April 12, 2023 4:20 AM Subscribe
In a new article for Journal of Higher Education (twitter thread), University of Michigan Sociology Ph.D. candidate Nicole Bedera analyzes dozens of interviews with Title IX adminstrators at Western Michigan University.
She concludes that, rather than regretting the betrayal of sexual assault survivors or attributing these institutional failures to systemic constraints, administrators have developed a moral framework for siding with perpetrators. Survivor claims are systematically minimiized and cast as emotional or irrational, while the language of trauma is applied to the accused. When violence was undeniable, the damage was cast as "too late to repair," leading to a framework in which Title IX cases had no stakes for survivors and therefore outcomes only mattered for the accused, whose futures could still be protected.
She concludes that, rather than regretting the betrayal of sexual assault survivors or attributing these institutional failures to systemic constraints, administrators have developed a moral framework for siding with perpetrators. Survivor claims are systematically minimiized and cast as emotional or irrational, while the language of trauma is applied to the accused. When violence was undeniable, the damage was cast as "too late to repair," leading to a framework in which Title IX cases had no stakes for survivors and therefore outcomes only mattered for the accused, whose futures could still be protected.
While this is behind the paywall, perhaps the abstract will be helpful (emphasis mine):
posted by wenestvedt at 6:36 AM on April 12, 2023 [16 favorites]
It is well-established fact that sexual assault survivors who report the violence they endured are retraumatized by the reporting process, but there is limited research on how these institutional betrayals are enacted. The current study draws on ethnographic observation and interview data to explore how 24 administrators use gendered rationalization frames to justify betrayal in Title IX cases. Specifically, administrators invoke himpathy to define their primary role as protecting the futures of young men. To defend this view from critique, they condemn how survivors use Title IX by casting them as hysterical women who are either mistaken in labeling an experience as sexual assault or suffering from trauma too severe for a Title IX process to repair. Taken together, these frames portray institutional betrayal as moral, even as these ideologies reinforce gender inequality.Jesus, that's terrible.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:36 AM on April 12, 2023 [16 favorites]
I thought about contacting the author for access, but decided not to.
Of course our society's attempts to protect women from predation wind up as just Yet Another protection for the predators. Because that's the kind of society we are. And nobody "respectable" will say that out loud. Because if you said it out loud you would quickly cease to be "respectable." Because everything is run by and for the people who think maintaining the right appearance is the only thing that matters.
I read enough depressing findings about things that I can't influence, and decided that I didn't need to add the details of this one to the pile.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 6:39 AM on April 12, 2023 [14 favorites]
Of course our society's attempts to protect women from predation wind up as just Yet Another protection for the predators. Because that's the kind of society we are. And nobody "respectable" will say that out loud. Because if you said it out loud you would quickly cease to be "respectable." Because everything is run by and for the people who think maintaining the right appearance is the only thing that matters.
I read enough depressing findings about things that I can't influence, and decided that I didn't need to add the details of this one to the pile.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 6:39 AM on April 12, 2023 [14 favorites]
I’ve thought for a while that certain things aren’t really crimes, or, if they are, they’re only crimes for certain demographic segments. Thinking about traffic stops will illustrate the point quite well.
Anyway. In this framework, at least in the US, many sexual crimes are not really crimes. Looked at that way, everything makes more sense, and nothing in this abstract is a surprise.
posted by eirias at 7:24 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
Anyway. In this framework, at least in the US, many sexual crimes are not really crimes. Looked at that way, everything makes more sense, and nothing in this abstract is a surprise.
posted by eirias at 7:24 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I thought about contacting the author for access, but decided not to.
Truly, researchers almost never mind sending copies of their paywalled articles that they don't get paid for. Bedera even offered to do so on Twitter. But pjenks has offered to do it for you here.
posted by grouse at 7:37 AM on April 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
Truly, researchers almost never mind sending copies of their paywalled articles that they don't get paid for. Bedera even offered to do so on Twitter. But pjenks has offered to do it for you here.
posted by grouse at 7:37 AM on April 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
To follow up on a not-totally-despairing note, I do think that the world can be a better place than it is, if enough people demand the policies that will improve things. Even though, very often, you look at where the US is today v where it needs to get to, and think "there's no way there from here." Like for example how we need to have law enforcement done by organizations that are not themselves criminal.
Sexual assault is one of those things that shows that the world is not just. There is no solution where if the right procedure were followed unfailingly by perfectly-well-informed people of good will, the right outcomes would always occur. Because it is a crime that the victim sometimes cannot prove even happened. And, rare as they are, there are false accusers in the world whose existence makes an unqualified "believe the woman!" into a non-starter.
But things don't have to be this bad.
Plausibly the topic of OP is related to changes in University administration in recent decades. The very rapid growth of University administrative bureaucracies has all kinds of pathological consequences and a healthy society would be looking at how to purge the Universities of their excess superstructure and return governance to faculty. Just the capsule description in the twitter thread suggests to me that the culture around Title IX is so sick that the kind of people who currently become University administrators will never be able to reform this mess.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 8:10 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
Sexual assault is one of those things that shows that the world is not just. There is no solution where if the right procedure were followed unfailingly by perfectly-well-informed people of good will, the right outcomes would always occur. Because it is a crime that the victim sometimes cannot prove even happened. And, rare as they are, there are false accusers in the world whose existence makes an unqualified "believe the woman!" into a non-starter.
But things don't have to be this bad.
Plausibly the topic of OP is related to changes in University administration in recent decades. The very rapid growth of University administrative bureaucracies has all kinds of pathological consequences and a healthy society would be looking at how to purge the Universities of their excess superstructure and return governance to faculty. Just the capsule description in the twitter thread suggests to me that the culture around Title IX is so sick that the kind of people who currently become University administrators will never be able to reform this mess.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 8:10 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
The purpose of criminal law is to control members of the out-classes and protect the in-classes.
In order for an in-class to be legitimately controlled by criminal law they must first be expelled from the in-class.
For that to be legitimate, the criminal act must be against an equal or higher status in-class member and sufficiently bad to justify expulsion. "Crimes" against lower class targets are a bug in the system that can be mitigated through many means.
Prosecutors, Judges, Cops all have discretion to let the in-class person off, and that is how it is used. When this fails, legislatures fix the laws.
Stand your ground, for example, permits in-class members to murder lower class members and not be punished, even if the Cops and Prosecutors and Judges won't just let the person off.
Here we have men being punished for harming women of otherwise equal class. As this violates the fundamental principle of crime the administrators are fixing the bug.
posted by NotAYakk at 8:12 AM on April 12, 2023 [22 favorites]
In order for an in-class to be legitimately controlled by criminal law they must first be expelled from the in-class.
For that to be legitimate, the criminal act must be against an equal or higher status in-class member and sufficiently bad to justify expulsion. "Crimes" against lower class targets are a bug in the system that can be mitigated through many means.
Prosecutors, Judges, Cops all have discretion to let the in-class person off, and that is how it is used. When this fails, legislatures fix the laws.
Stand your ground, for example, permits in-class members to murder lower class members and not be punished, even if the Cops and Prosecutors and Judges won't just let the person off.
Here we have men being punished for harming women of otherwise equal class. As this violates the fundamental principle of crime the administrators are fixing the bug.
posted by NotAYakk at 8:12 AM on April 12, 2023 [22 favorites]
@NotAYakk,
You can also insist that all human relationships be understood exclusively in purely transactional terms, with detailed analysis of who comes out ahead. Again, it's not clear that you could be proven wrong, and if you insist on this approach, all of your human relationships will in fact be purely transactional. You will not be popular. In fact, people who know you will avoid intimacy because they will not want to be used by you all the time, or have some kind of score kept on every interaction.
I claim that there's something similar with too-world-weary-ultimate-cynicism analyses of social relations in the large, like the one you offer.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 8:44 AM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
The purpose of criminal law is to control members of the out-classes and protect the in-classes.You can insist upon this, and your opponents hard-put to prove you wrong.
You can also insist that all human relationships be understood exclusively in purely transactional terms, with detailed analysis of who comes out ahead. Again, it's not clear that you could be proven wrong, and if you insist on this approach, all of your human relationships will in fact be purely transactional. You will not be popular. In fact, people who know you will avoid intimacy because they will not want to be used by you all the time, or have some kind of score kept on every interaction.
I claim that there's something similar with too-world-weary-ultimate-cynicism analyses of social relations in the large, like the one you offer.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 8:44 AM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
You can't become a student affairs administrator without pledging allegiance to a general philosophy of misbehavior control which is highly pro-offender. The same culture that would fire you for reporting a student to the cops for stealing backpacks or bikes, is not going to suddenly turn around and drop a pile of bricks on someone accused of a Title IX violation.
posted by MattD at 8:46 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by MattD at 8:46 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I thought about contacting the author for access, but decided not to.
I emailed her! My hope is that she'll be flattered rather than annoyed at the interest.
posted by corb at 8:49 AM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
I emailed her! My hope is that she'll be flattered rather than annoyed at the interest.
posted by corb at 8:49 AM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
In fact, people who know you will avoid intimacy because they will not want to be used by you all the time, or have some kind of score kept on every interaction.
I claim that there's something similar with too-world-weary-ultimate-cynicism analyses of social relations in the large, like the one you offer.
In light of the pure and almost unfathomable monstrousness of this information, and in the context of Metafilter where I would hazard to guess that most US users have a glancing knowledge of how, for example, "stand your ground" or castle doctrine laws are applied in the United States*, I have to say..."oh you think criminal law in the US is busted shit? You must be fun at parties" is a truly bizarre take.
*Yes I fucking know there are other countries but Title IX is very specifically US law.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:54 AM on April 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
I claim that there's something similar with too-world-weary-ultimate-cynicism analyses of social relations in the large, like the one you offer.
In light of the pure and almost unfathomable monstrousness of this information, and in the context of Metafilter where I would hazard to guess that most US users have a glancing knowledge of how, for example, "stand your ground" or castle doctrine laws are applied in the United States*, I have to say..."oh you think criminal law in the US is busted shit? You must be fun at parties" is a truly bizarre take.
*Yes I fucking know there are other countries but Title IX is very specifically US law.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:54 AM on April 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
Am university professor. I cannot fail a student unless they entirely stop showing up to class and I have documentation for this. I cannot fail a student for totally plagiarizing (or now, ChatGPTing) an assignment. If there is an athlete in the class, they have to get at least a B. I cannot tell students they have to put their phones/tablets/laptops away. I have been told multiple times by admins that students are "paying customers" and are therefore essentially always right. Yes, institutional sexism exacerbates all this, but the problem writ large is one of lack of accountability in general.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 9:08 AM on April 12, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 9:08 AM on April 12, 2023 [8 favorites]
It is threads like these that make me wish Metafilter had images so I could post the flames on the side of my face GIF. Because while I might eventually arrive at coherent and useful thoughts on this subject, my starting point is flames, flames on the side of my face.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:23 AM on April 12, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 9:23 AM on April 12, 2023 [14 favorites]
The first thing this made me think of was a work experience I had a few years ago. My small company was bought by a larger company whose CEO was more egalitarian than ours. I had some hope that he gave a shit. So, I set up a meeting with him (at this point we had been a combined company for a while and he knew I did good work) and I laid out for him the open discrimination happening at our company which was now a branch of his. An obvious pattern of women not being allowed to advance into open positions until a much less qualified man advanced along with her. Our CEO (now head of our division), let's call him Garfield, was the one masterminding these promotions. I explained this all with clear examples which the CEO could easily confirm himself.
The first thing he said, the FIRST thing he said, enthusiastically, was: "Well, obviously we both love Garfield."
I gave up right then. I left that job and actually my whole career fizzled to nothing and I am about to graduate with a second Bachelor's in a completely unrelated field doing completely unrelated work. Garfield went on to violate his non-compete multiple times and was never held accountable for it and is richer than ever.
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:35 AM on April 12, 2023 [16 favorites]
The first thing he said, the FIRST thing he said, enthusiastically, was: "Well, obviously we both love Garfield."
I gave up right then. I left that job and actually my whole career fizzled to nothing and I am about to graduate with a second Bachelor's in a completely unrelated field doing completely unrelated work. Garfield went on to violate his non-compete multiple times and was never held accountable for it and is richer than ever.
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:35 AM on April 12, 2023 [16 favorites]
I have been told multiple times by admins that students are "paying customers" and are therefore essentially always right
I mean, rape culture is really the root of this but this idea that students are paying customers is definitely a piece of it (and a bunch of other problems as well). It's not even the idea that students are customers but what they are paying for is good instruction and teaching, well qualified instructors that give honest evaluations and grades. As a student, I'm paying you NOT to bullshit me and tell me my work is good when it's not.
I hope that someday we can get back to the idea that college is for learning and becoming a better person and citizen (of the world, the country, your community, whatever). Going to college and getting a degree is a worthwhile pursuit all on it's own and should be the primary reason people go to college. Anything that helps you get a job or whatever is secondary.
Being held accountable for their work would have to have some knock effects creating more of a culture of accountability in general.
posted by VTX at 9:47 AM on April 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
I mean, rape culture is really the root of this but this idea that students are paying customers is definitely a piece of it (and a bunch of other problems as well). It's not even the idea that students are customers but what they are paying for is good instruction and teaching, well qualified instructors that give honest evaluations and grades. As a student, I'm paying you NOT to bullshit me and tell me my work is good when it's not.
I hope that someday we can get back to the idea that college is for learning and becoming a better person and citizen (of the world, the country, your community, whatever). Going to college and getting a degree is a worthwhile pursuit all on it's own and should be the primary reason people go to college. Anything that helps you get a job or whatever is secondary.
Being held accountable for their work would have to have some knock effects creating more of a culture of accountability in general.
posted by VTX at 9:47 AM on April 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
I cannot fail a student unless they entirely stop showing up to class and I have documentation for this.
.... How?!
Reminds me of the arguments over "no grade" that they used to do at my alma mater. Professors didn't want to have to grant F's to people they never met, didn't ever show up, never bothered to drop the class, and then didn't want to get harassed over granting an F. After years of arguments, it was determined "tough titty, you give them F's now."
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:55 AM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
.... How?!
Reminds me of the arguments over "no grade" that they used to do at my alma mater. Professors didn't want to have to grant F's to people they never met, didn't ever show up, never bothered to drop the class, and then didn't want to get harassed over granting an F. After years of arguments, it was determined "tough titty, you give them F's now."
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:55 AM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
Not saying this doesn’t happen somewhere , but my 20-year-old kid’s experience is that college professors will absolutely fail you while also ignoring requests for documented accommodations, and administrators will blame the student.
To the point of TFA, I’d be interested in the ways these attitudes promulgate through the general field of college Title XI work. How is their work discussed at professional conferences? Is there a split in the field between perpetrator protectors and victim protectors?
posted by jeoc at 10:19 AM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
To the point of TFA, I’d be interested in the ways these attitudes promulgate through the general field of college Title XI work. How is their work discussed at professional conferences? Is there a split in the field between perpetrator protectors and victim protectors?
posted by jeoc at 10:19 AM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
just thinking back to the study in the OP, I realize that 24 administrators is practically the definition of small sample size, but I'm curious if the author found any variation based on gender or years of experience of the administrator. pjenks, if you could comment, or memail the study? either way. thanks!
posted by martin q blank at 10:43 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by martin q blank at 10:43 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Haven't read the article (but did read the twitter thread and the abstract) and I can't be surprised. Part of the larger issue is that men get mixed messages. The law says too much sexual aggression (aggression aimed at a woman to induce her to have sex) is a crime legally and in terms of university regulations, but a lot of our culture tells men that sexual aggression is a core trait of masculinity. If men behave as a significant part of their cultural training tells them to behave toward women, that they're told and shown that women want, they're at risk of committing crimes.
It's hard not to have a little himpathy around that confusion about masculinity and sexual aggression even if you abhor what's happening to women and think men who commit sexual assault of any sort should be punished to the extent of law and regulations. (Talking here about US culture and cishet relationships among the college aged and college administrators, YMMV if we're not talking about those demographics.)
Also just want to tie this back to a recent set of Metafilter discussions around editing books for modern sensibilities around gender, sex, race, etc. I don't have a dog in that particular hunt where kids are concerned but constant exposure to what we consider outmoded, wrong, or outright bigoted ideas are part of how kids absorb those ideas. Then, for instance, boys grow up with confusion about whether a woman's refusal to have sex with a man is an answer they (as a man) should accept or an act of nominal resistance ("good girls don't") that they should try to overcome to prove their masculinity.
If I were in university administration I'd still throw the book at rapists and harassers to the extent I could, but I recognize what a mindfuck it's got to be to be a man.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 11:08 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's hard not to have a little himpathy around that confusion about masculinity and sexual aggression even if you abhor what's happening to women and think men who commit sexual assault of any sort should be punished to the extent of law and regulations. (Talking here about US culture and cishet relationships among the college aged and college administrators, YMMV if we're not talking about those demographics.)
Also just want to tie this back to a recent set of Metafilter discussions around editing books for modern sensibilities around gender, sex, race, etc. I don't have a dog in that particular hunt where kids are concerned but constant exposure to what we consider outmoded, wrong, or outright bigoted ideas are part of how kids absorb those ideas. Then, for instance, boys grow up with confusion about whether a woman's refusal to have sex with a man is an answer they (as a man) should accept or an act of nominal resistance ("good girls don't") that they should try to overcome to prove their masculinity.
If I were in university administration I'd still throw the book at rapists and harassers to the extent I could, but I recognize what a mindfuck it's got to be to be a man.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 11:08 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
As a student, I'm paying you NOT to bullshit me and tell me my work is good when it's not.
Believe me, students like you are few and far between at my huge research university. Our mission is to continually increase the rate at which students finish their bachelor's degrees within six years of starting. It was made explicitly clear to me ten or so years ago that my job is to give students every chance to get at least a B: don't enforce deadlines, don't enforce standards, give lots of "extra credit", give them B's anyway. I can't fight City Hall, so I stopped giving a shit.
And jeoc, I'm sorry your student is having a hard time with accommodations, but at my uni they hand them out like candy, and a good way for even tenured faculty like me to get in real trouble is to ignore any aspect of those accommodations.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 11:11 AM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
Believe me, students like you are few and far between at my huge research university. Our mission is to continually increase the rate at which students finish their bachelor's degrees within six years of starting. It was made explicitly clear to me ten or so years ago that my job is to give students every chance to get at least a B: don't enforce deadlines, don't enforce standards, give lots of "extra credit", give them B's anyway. I can't fight City Hall, so I stopped giving a shit.
And jeoc, I'm sorry your student is having a hard time with accommodations, but at my uni they hand them out like candy, and a good way for even tenured faculty like me to get in real trouble is to ignore any aspect of those accommodations.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 11:11 AM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
At risk of derailing the thread, outgrown_hobnail's experience is nothing like mines. I could (and did) fail students for things like not turning in passable work or cheating, including a student athlete, and never once got grief about it. On one memorable occasion a student tried to complain to the department chair, but was resolved pretty quickly and not in their favor. The only thing holding me back from failing students was my personal ethics, which viewed it as a last resort after attempts to help the student as much as I reasonably and fairly could. And I was low in the hierarchy, a grad student instructor or an adjunct.
I really doubt that the "paying customer" mindset is the major reason for these rationalizations. They exist everywhere, and not just in universities like outgrown_hobnail's. They exist in other universities; they exist outside of universities; they existed before Title IX and before the "paying customer" mindset. They are so incredibly deep seated.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:19 AM on April 12, 2023
I really doubt that the "paying customer" mindset is the major reason for these rationalizations. They exist everywhere, and not just in universities like outgrown_hobnail's. They exist in other universities; they exist outside of universities; they existed before Title IX and before the "paying customer" mindset. They are so incredibly deep seated.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:19 AM on April 12, 2023
@We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese:
In light of... is a truly bizarre take.
I'm having a hard time parsing that.
One the one hand, yes, I tried to acknowledge elsethread that American law enforcement is so fucked that I can't even imagine how it could get unfucked, and how soul-crushingly "of course" it is that in America, an anti-rape initiative would wind up enabling rapists.
The world is not just. The moral arc of the Universe (if there is such a thing, which is not at all clear) does not bend toward justice, at least not by itself. Yet from time to time and place to place, sometimes and some places there seems to be be more justice for more people than in other times and places. Often this appears to be a consequence of people's choices, rather than the workings of some impersonal laws of nature upon accidental circumstances. The situation of the US in this regard is so bad that it's hard to imagine that improvement is not possible, if enough people cared.
All I'm trying to point out is that pure cynicism of the @NotAYakk is not particularly constructive, if you want people to have that kind of engagement.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 11:48 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
In light of... is a truly bizarre take.
I'm having a hard time parsing that.
One the one hand, yes, I tried to acknowledge elsethread that American law enforcement is so fucked that I can't even imagine how it could get unfucked, and how soul-crushingly "of course" it is that in America, an anti-rape initiative would wind up enabling rapists.
The world is not just. The moral arc of the Universe (if there is such a thing, which is not at all clear) does not bend toward justice, at least not by itself. Yet from time to time and place to place, sometimes and some places there seems to be be more justice for more people than in other times and places. Often this appears to be a consequence of people's choices, rather than the workings of some impersonal laws of nature upon accidental circumstances. The situation of the US in this regard is so bad that it's hard to imagine that improvement is not possible, if enough people cared.
All I'm trying to point out is that pure cynicism of the @NotAYakk is not particularly constructive, if you want people to have that kind of engagement.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 11:48 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I just want to say that the author was cheerful and helpful and sent the paper immediately.
posted by corb at 11:52 AM on April 12, 2023 [23 favorites]
posted by corb at 11:52 AM on April 12, 2023 [23 favorites]
It's hard not to have a little himpathy around that confusion about masculinity and sexual aggression
Hmm....nope. Don't find that challenging at all.
posted by praemunire at 12:19 PM on April 12, 2023 [12 favorites]
Hmm....nope. Don't find that challenging at all.
posted by praemunire at 12:19 PM on April 12, 2023 [12 favorites]
Well I guess we're even on un-parse-ability, because I don't see how "American law enforcement is so fucked that I can't even imagine how it could get unfucked" is any less cynical than "American law enforcement is so fucked that I have to think it's serving a different purpose than it claims to." It doesn't seem unreasonably cynical to me to question whether an institution that is so relentlessly Doing It The Worst might just have a different goal in mind than the one I have assumed.
But anyway the part I thought was weird was the implication that nobody's friends with a person who thinks that way, which is not the same as "this isn't constructive." But maybe that's just because growing up as a woman one of the reasons I was shamed out of pointing out terrible behavior of the men in my circles was because
people who know you will avoid intimacy.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:08 PM on April 12, 2023
But anyway the part I thought was weird was the implication that nobody's friends with a person who thinks that way, which is not the same as "this isn't constructive." But maybe that's just because growing up as a woman one of the reasons I was shamed out of pointing out terrible behavior of the men in my circles was because
people who know you will avoid intimacy.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:08 PM on April 12, 2023
The adversarial nature of sexual harassment and assault reporting in US academic institutions is right in the name of the office that you're expected to report to. It's not Student Support Services, they actually call it the Title IX Office.
Might as well call it the Bare Minimum To Maintain Access To Federal Education Funds Office.
The burden of proof is always on the victim. And to an extra standard. You have to show that the harassment got in the way of your access to educational opportunities. My recent university-required "Title IX Training" conflated sexual harassment and Title IX violation, stating that sexual harassment is "behavior, speech or touch of a sexual nature that impinges access to educational opportunities". That's an extra narrow definition, but it was presented in the training as a general definition of what sexual harassment is.
Absolutely infuriating.
posted by ewok_academy at 1:11 PM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
Might as well call it the Bare Minimum To Maintain Access To Federal Education Funds Office.
The burden of proof is always on the victim. And to an extra standard. You have to show that the harassment got in the way of your access to educational opportunities. My recent university-required "Title IX Training" conflated sexual harassment and Title IX violation, stating that sexual harassment is "behavior, speech or touch of a sexual nature that impinges access to educational opportunities". That's an extra narrow definition, but it was presented in the training as a general definition of what sexual harassment is.
Absolutely infuriating.
posted by ewok_academy at 1:11 PM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
(shit if anything it seems LESS cynical to think that people and systems tend to do well at accomplishing what they set out to accomplish, and therefore if you want to know what a system or a person is FOR, you could look at what they do. The other path is to believe that all institutions are simply completely incapable of ever doing anything correctly according to their mission, which is what I happen to agree with, but which seems intensely cynical.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:13 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:13 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Might as well call it the We Cover Our Ass, It's Up To You To Cover Yours Office.
posted by ewok_academy at 1:16 PM on April 12, 2023
posted by ewok_academy at 1:16 PM on April 12, 2023
The We Only Care If Our Funding Is Endangered Office
posted by ewok_academy at 1:17 PM on April 12, 2023
posted by ewok_academy at 1:17 PM on April 12, 2023
(ooh, I went on a tear. I'll see myself out. )
posted by ewok_academy at 1:18 PM on April 12, 2023
posted by ewok_academy at 1:18 PM on April 12, 2023
the problem writ large is one of lack of accountability in general.
^^^^^^
What ultimately killed my promising career in academic libraries, which I genuinely enjoyed and was quite fairly compensated, was reporting sexual harassment from someone who had multiple complaints against them—the most demoralizing experience and biggest professional mistake of my life. Everyone was "on my side" but no one was at all.
posted by avocet at 1:55 PM on April 12, 2023 [11 favorites]
^^^^^^
What ultimately killed my promising career in academic libraries, which I genuinely enjoyed and was quite fairly compensated, was reporting sexual harassment from someone who had multiple complaints against them—the most demoralizing experience and biggest professional mistake of my life. Everyone was "on my side" but no one was at all.
posted by avocet at 1:55 PM on April 12, 2023 [11 favorites]
I'm angry at these circumstances and sorry for the civilisation you've got there in the USA. (This next paragraph is my anger being sarcastic.)
"Have some himpathy" -- no, please, instead put emotional labour into laughing at my sh_t jokes, I'm entitled anddefault cis-het-white-male and completed postgraduate study. You don't owe this dog-on-the-internet anything, and I certainly understand why you'd believe "it's more than my job is worth" to act justly.
[Calming breaths]
We watched __The White Lotus__ this last fortnight. From over here in the UK it had milksop entitled customers and ... well, this piece explains all of the conversations between characters bridling against contemporary mores while also having these expectations of "boys while be boys."
The idea that you owekids young men just starting out an unsullied reputation ... because the system tells you their poor choices are natural, normalising these predatory and hurtful choices, that's going to cause some of the mess.
Civilisation says we're above animal instinct and can choose and be held responsible for our actions. Shame is a powerful motivator and consequences for actions causing deserved reputations ... seems fair. We have to collectively hold this line: some outcomes are better than others and you should be ashamed of poor outcomes. It's collective, not individual, and our communities need us to look out for each other.
"The purpose of a system is what it does." That's Stafford Beer, someone who studied how people organise themselves and sought to build ways to describe the systems of human organisation. Maybe it's a stretch to label this system, here, but I'm horrified that a mechanism to hold people to account betrays the vulnerable to protect the powerful -- while hindsight suggests the protection of powerful people is the purpose of the system.
posted by k3ninho at 3:31 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
"Have some himpathy" -- no, please, instead put emotional labour into laughing at my sh_t jokes, I'm entitled and
[Calming breaths]
We watched __The White Lotus__ this last fortnight. From over here in the UK it had milksop entitled customers and ... well, this piece explains all of the conversations between characters bridling against contemporary mores while also having these expectations of "boys while be boys."
The idea that you owe
Civilisation says we're above animal instinct and can choose and be held responsible for our actions. Shame is a powerful motivator and consequences for actions causing deserved reputations ... seems fair. We have to collectively hold this line: some outcomes are better than others and you should be ashamed of poor outcomes. It's collective, not individual, and our communities need us to look out for each other.
"The purpose of a system is what it does." That's Stafford Beer, someone who studied how people organise themselves and sought to build ways to describe the systems of human organisation. Maybe it's a stretch to label this system, here, but I'm horrified that a mechanism to hold people to account betrays the vulnerable to protect the powerful -- while hindsight suggests the protection of powerful people is the purpose of the system.
posted by k3ninho at 3:31 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
"I'm horrified that a mechanism to hold people to account betrays the vulnerable to protect the powerful -- while hindsight suggests the protection of poerful people is the purpose of the system.”
I am shooting from the hip a little bit here, but I suspect we can see this pattern in a lot of places, not just sexual crimes. For instance, people who try to report scientific malfeasance often run into issues where the journal editor is less interested in pursuing it than in covering it up. The same thing can happen inside their universities. Regulatory capture seems like another manifestation. People who work inside institutions get attached to those institutions and the people in them. I might ask instead — where do we not see this pattern? What could those situations tell us about how to protect the vulnerable more effectively?
posted by eirias at 3:39 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am shooting from the hip a little bit here, but I suspect we can see this pattern in a lot of places, not just sexual crimes. For instance, people who try to report scientific malfeasance often run into issues where the journal editor is less interested in pursuing it than in covering it up. The same thing can happen inside their universities. Regulatory capture seems like another manifestation. People who work inside institutions get attached to those institutions and the people in them. I might ask instead — where do we not see this pattern? What could those situations tell us about how to protect the vulnerable more effectively?
posted by eirias at 3:39 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I guess we'd have to study that more deeply.
"Power without accountability is corrupt" I figure, and the reckoning is due for those who've nothing to fear from having nothing to hide.
posted by k3ninho at 3:59 PM on April 12, 2023
"Power without accountability is corrupt" I figure, and the reckoning is due for those who've nothing to fear from having nothing to hide.
posted by k3ninho at 3:59 PM on April 12, 2023
If the central problem were really that “students are paying customers,” students who report a rape would be valued as much as the students accused of it.
They’re not.
The central problem is still patriarchy. Male students are “valued customers” who administrators fear might be “falsely accused,” and sexual assault/harassment/misogyny is just an extra cost the less-valuable female “customers” are expected to pay for seeking a higher education.
“Himpathy” is already very much a part of the calculus, TYVM. If these distractingly-female upstarts are going to compete for grades and jobs with our boys, at least there will still be one time-honored campus tradition to put the coeds in their place.
posted by armeowda at 4:14 PM on April 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
They’re not.
The central problem is still patriarchy. Male students are “valued customers” who administrators fear might be “falsely accused,” and sexual assault/harassment/misogyny is just an extra cost the less-valuable female “customers” are expected to pay for seeking a higher education.
“Himpathy” is already very much a part of the calculus, TYVM. If these distractingly-female upstarts are going to compete for grades and jobs with our boys, at least there will still be one time-honored campus tradition to put the coeds in their place.
posted by armeowda at 4:14 PM on April 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
I've learned over the years that if anything super bad ever happens to me, I won't be reporting it because it will only make things worse for me and never for the guilty party.
I've only ever reported something ONCE in my adult life because the person was literally screaming in front of me and an audience and at that point, I was stuck having to. I got lucky that time. I wouldn't count on getting lucky again.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:28 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've only ever reported something ONCE in my adult life because the person was literally screaming in front of me and an audience and at that point, I was stuck having to. I got lucky that time. I wouldn't count on getting lucky again.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:28 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm looking forward to reading the paper (emailed the other, a fellow U Mich person), but am curious about the sample:
analyzes dozens of interviews with Title IX adminstrators at Western Michigan University.
What did she learn about the specific culture at that institution, as opposed to about sexual assault admin nationally?
posted by doctornemo at 8:12 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
analyzes dozens of interviews with Title IX adminstrators at Western Michigan University.
What did she learn about the specific culture at that institution, as opposed to about sexual assault admin nationally?
posted by doctornemo at 8:12 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
And jeoc, I'm sorry your student is having a hard time with accommodations, but at my uni they hand them out like candy, and a good way for even tenured faculty like me to get in real trouble is to ignore any aspect of those accommodations
I know a lot of Disabled/chronically ill people in the US and the UK, and
a) it is incredibly difficult to get accommodations
b) even when you get accommodations, university lecturers often ignore them.
The worst example was a Blind friend of mine who had an accommodation that he get electronic copies of class documents (so that he could use his specialty software to enlarge the font), and the lecturer just refused and kept giving him the same small-font paper documents as everyone else.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:24 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I know a lot of Disabled/chronically ill people in the US and the UK, and
a) it is incredibly difficult to get accommodations
b) even when you get accommodations, university lecturers often ignore them.
The worst example was a Blind friend of mine who had an accommodation that he get electronic copies of class documents (so that he could use his specialty software to enlarge the font), and the lecturer just refused and kept giving him the same small-font paper documents as everyone else.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:24 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
There was a story recently in the news about an Australian university where a student said to the university
"[university staff member] sexually abused me when I was a high school student and he was my high school teacher"
and the university's response was to prohibit the staff member from having any contact with that particular student, but not to fire him or to stop him teaching other 17/18 year old university students.
"She told the court she also did not want to spend longer at the university, because, by the time Ms Munting started her science degree, Pollard was working in the university's science department. The court previously heard it was a condition of Pollard's contract not to have contact with Ms Munting."
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:28 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
"[university staff member] sexually abused me when I was a high school student and he was my high school teacher"
and the university's response was to prohibit the staff member from having any contact with that particular student, but not to fire him or to stop him teaching other 17/18 year old university students.
"She told the court she also did not want to spend longer at the university, because, by the time Ms Munting started her science degree, Pollard was working in the university's science department. The court previously heard it was a condition of Pollard's contract not to have contact with Ms Munting."
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:28 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
If the central problem were really that “students are paying customers,” students who report a rape would be valued as much as the students accused of it. They’re not. The central problem is still patriarchy.
Exactly this. The victim is also a "paying customer" but they get ignored. We need to stop thinking there's some rational self-interest behind these actions. People uphold patriarchy (and white supremacy and Christian dominionism and classism) even when it costs them money because they value those things more than money. We need to acknowledge that evil exists.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:44 AM on April 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
Exactly this. The victim is also a "paying customer" but they get ignored. We need to stop thinking there's some rational self-interest behind these actions. People uphold patriarchy (and white supremacy and Christian dominionism and classism) even when it costs them money because they value those things more than money. We need to acknowledge that evil exists.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:44 AM on April 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
And jeoc, I'm sorry your student is having a hard time with accommodations, but at my uni they hand them out like candy, and a good way for even tenured faculty like me to get in real trouble is to ignore any aspect of those accommodations.
You're saying that like it's a problem, but it's only a problem if you think there's just one REAL way to learn a subject and everything else is cheating.
And like I think that's kind of part of the problem described here. As others have said above, in order to succeed in a system, you have to buy into that system, and when that system values certain people over others, you buy into that too.
posted by Gygesringtone at 7:33 AM on April 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
You're saying that like it's a problem, but it's only a problem if you think there's just one REAL way to learn a subject and everything else is cheating.
And like I think that's kind of part of the problem described here. As others have said above, in order to succeed in a system, you have to buy into that system, and when that system values certain people over others, you buy into that too.
posted by Gygesringtone at 7:33 AM on April 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Yup, faculty, even tenured faculty, absolutely should be getting in trouble for ignoring documented, approved accommodations. There should be some process by which you can engage with the disability office if those accommodations are truly not tenable for the teaching you do, to discuss whether there might be alternatives that would work. But just ignoring accommodations should not be even remotely an option.
Unrelated thoughts: Part of my job involves overseeing a type of university-based misconduct investigation that is in no way related to Title IX issues but does often involve two people telling opposing stories with limited evidence where there's a significant power imbalance. I've been consistently heartened at how seriously and thoughtfully the committees I put together for these investigations take that imbalance, and how committed they are to proactively thinking about those issues and how to migitate them even before I bring it up. I don't know what the difference is - if it's because this is about gender, if it's because my thing is specifically about power differentials in the context of academic hierarchy so it's more salient to academics, if it's because we specifically select for people whose deans recommend them as being particularly trusted for this sort of deliberation, or what. But I feel like I see the best of my people in the type of investigation I do, and that clearly doesn't happen in this type of investigation at least at this university in the article, and there's a gap there that troubles and saddens me. Makes me want to find some time to chat with my Title IX folks and try to learn more about what's happening over there.
posted by Stacey at 8:19 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Unrelated thoughts: Part of my job involves overseeing a type of university-based misconduct investigation that is in no way related to Title IX issues but does often involve two people telling opposing stories with limited evidence where there's a significant power imbalance. I've been consistently heartened at how seriously and thoughtfully the committees I put together for these investigations take that imbalance, and how committed they are to proactively thinking about those issues and how to migitate them even before I bring it up. I don't know what the difference is - if it's because this is about gender, if it's because my thing is specifically about power differentials in the context of academic hierarchy so it's more salient to academics, if it's because we specifically select for people whose deans recommend them as being particularly trusted for this sort of deliberation, or what. But I feel like I see the best of my people in the type of investigation I do, and that clearly doesn't happen in this type of investigation at least at this university in the article, and there's a gap there that troubles and saddens me. Makes me want to find some time to chat with my Title IX folks and try to learn more about what's happening over there.
posted by Stacey at 8:19 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yup, faculty, even tenured faculty, absolutely should be getting in trouble for ignoring documented, approved accommodations. There should be some process by which you can engage with the disability office if those accommodations are truly not tenable for the teaching you do, to discuss whether there might be alternatives that would work. But just ignoring accommodations should not be even remotely an option.
The problem, unfortunately, is that academia's position is that working around the needs of students is a violation of "academic freedom", because harm and abuse are educational tools.
Also, part of the problem is that too many people see suffering the consequences of one's actions as punishment instead of causality.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:17 AM on April 13, 2023
The problem, unfortunately, is that academia's position is that working around the needs of students is a violation of "academic freedom", because harm and abuse are educational tools.
Also, part of the problem is that too many people see suffering the consequences of one's actions as punishment instead of causality.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:17 AM on April 13, 2023
I think partially it's that we're talking about the whole population which, net net is a bunch of bullshit as has been discussed.
But that average is the peak of a bell curve which means some programs are going to handle it MUCH MUCH better and some will be MUCH MUCH worse.
It seems to me like how I'm a standard issue upper-middle-class cis white male. I like to think I represent what should be at least the average if not the bare minimum. But I don't really get a cookie just for being a decent person and overall it's still very true that cis white men suck as a rule.
posted by VTX at 9:24 AM on April 13, 2023
But that average is the peak of a bell curve which means some programs are going to handle it MUCH MUCH better and some will be MUCH MUCH worse.
It seems to me like how I'm a standard issue upper-middle-class cis white male. I like to think I represent what should be at least the average if not the bare minimum. But I don't really get a cookie just for being a decent person and overall it's still very true that cis white men suck as a rule.
posted by VTX at 9:24 AM on April 13, 2023
The victim is also a "paying customer" but they get ignored.
Nobody wants to deal with victims. Victims require work to protect them, and nobody wants to do that. Everything is the victim's fault for being so awful that someone just had to mistreat them. It's always the victim's fault for bringing that treatment upon themselves, and they deserve it.
Those are the life lessons I've certainly learned.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:03 AM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Nobody wants to deal with victims. Victims require work to protect them, and nobody wants to do that. Everything is the victim's fault for being so awful that someone just had to mistreat them. It's always the victim's fault for bringing that treatment upon themselves, and they deserve it.
Those are the life lessons I've certainly learned.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:03 AM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Finally, a thank you to everyone who provided the emotional support required for a project like this one,
I bet this was heavy lifting.
posted by bq at 4:43 PM on April 13, 2023
I bet this was heavy lifting.
posted by bq at 4:43 PM on April 13, 2023
I've learned over the years that if anything super bad ever happens to me, I won't be reporting it because it will only make things worse for me and never for the guilty party.
My dad was one of those people who was really into tort reform. Really hated the idea that you could sue a company for coffee being too hot. I think he and my mother both viewed plaintiffs as people who got too big for their britches, people trying to rise above their station on the backs of others. So I didn’t realize until fairly late in life that suing over wrongdoing is fundamentally a prosocial act. Even if you win money, your life will almost certainly be worse in so many other ways that it’s hard to imagine it being a sensible trade. The best outcome you can hope for is that in acting to defend the rules that preserve our trust in one another, you might make it better for the next person, and for the community as a whole. Safer, or more just.
I can’t blame you for calculating that the low chance of payoff means it’s not worth it to pursue grievances through formal channels. I’m skeptical too, as I mentioned above. Our social world has not done a lot to recommend itself of late. I do wish I’d had the words to convince my dad that the thing he was sneering at is not only compatible with decency, but essential — not that every person is obliged to pursue it (that would be too cruel) but that it matters that someone is willing. Trust matters.
posted by eirias at 6:24 PM on April 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
My dad was one of those people who was really into tort reform. Really hated the idea that you could sue a company for coffee being too hot. I think he and my mother both viewed plaintiffs as people who got too big for their britches, people trying to rise above their station on the backs of others. So I didn’t realize until fairly late in life that suing over wrongdoing is fundamentally a prosocial act. Even if you win money, your life will almost certainly be worse in so many other ways that it’s hard to imagine it being a sensible trade. The best outcome you can hope for is that in acting to defend the rules that preserve our trust in one another, you might make it better for the next person, and for the community as a whole. Safer, or more just.
I can’t blame you for calculating that the low chance of payoff means it’s not worth it to pursue grievances through formal channels. I’m skeptical too, as I mentioned above. Our social world has not done a lot to recommend itself of late. I do wish I’d had the words to convince my dad that the thing he was sneering at is not only compatible with decency, but essential — not that every person is obliged to pursue it (that would be too cruel) but that it matters that someone is willing. Trust matters.
posted by eirias at 6:24 PM on April 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
academia's position is that working around the needs of students is a violation of "academic freedom", because harm and abuse are educational tools.
Depending on your definitions of harm and abuse.
posted by doctornemo at 1:25 PM on April 14, 2023
Depending on your definitions of harm and abuse.
posted by doctornemo at 1:25 PM on April 14, 2023
I contacted Nicole Bedera. She was very kind and helpful, sharing her article and (hopefully!) joining me on my video program about higher education's future soon.
posted by doctornemo at 1:26 PM on April 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 1:26 PM on April 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
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