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May 6, 2023 2:25 AM Subscribe
When you sign up for digital service, sometimes they make it difficult to unsubscribe. by Caroline Sinders
justdelete.me have a more extensive list including quite a few which are impossible to delete.
posted by Lanark at 3:21 AM on May 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by Lanark at 3:21 AM on May 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
Sometimes, I wonder if something isn’t simply bone-headed site design versus actual dark-patterns at work. I suppose there could be a bit of “why not both?” at work.
Recently, I was bored and was rummaging through the Amazon Prime app, to see if there wasn’t something that looked interesting to watch. I happened across a movie that looked interesting, so I selected it. I was taken to a screen that showed the movie was actually a rental (even though I was definitely not browsing anything other than free stuff.) There were two buttons displayed, one to accept the purchase and one to cancel. By every UI standard I know and have worked with, I highlighted the cancel button and clicked. I immediately got a screen verifying my purchase. WTF??. Since it was my wife’s Prime account, I quickly called her to see if she could go into her Amazon account and kill the purchase. At least there was no bullshit there, and she easily canceled it.
(Also, I find it a wee bit ironic that a site talking about bullshit web design is itself completely unviewable on an older mobile device.)
posted by Thorzdad at 3:24 AM on May 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Recently, I was bored and was rummaging through the Amazon Prime app, to see if there wasn’t something that looked interesting to watch. I happened across a movie that looked interesting, so I selected it. I was taken to a screen that showed the movie was actually a rental (even though I was definitely not browsing anything other than free stuff.) There were two buttons displayed, one to accept the purchase and one to cancel. By every UI standard I know and have worked with, I highlighted the cancel button and clicked. I immediately got a screen verifying my purchase. WTF??. Since it was my wife’s Prime account, I quickly called her to see if she could go into her Amazon account and kill the purchase. At least there was no bullshit there, and she easily canceled it.
(Also, I find it a wee bit ironic that a site talking about bullshit web design is itself completely unviewable on an older mobile device.)
posted by Thorzdad at 3:24 AM on May 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
The imbalance between "click here to subscribe" and "you must call to unsubscribe" is really egregious. One of the many things I despise about the New York Times.
I have fallen prey to the "x per month (billed annually)" trick. Fortunately, the service in question refunded me very quickly after I contacted customer service (without having to make a phone call). There was another time I only finally managed to cancel something by cancelling my card, which was a pretty drastic measure to have to take.
An app I use quite a lot, the journaling app Day One, has an annual subscription. It renewed on May 6 (today!) for $34.99. They didn't send me any notifications or alerts that it was renewing; I happened to notice because I was looking at all the subscriptions on my phone the other day, thinking about which ones I might cancel to save money. I only have a handful, but I hate the way all the apps have gone to a subscription rather than a buy-and-own model. I get why they're doing it, but it frustrates me, and they really add up. In March, I tracked all my spending very carefully, and realized that all my subscriptions, including Amazon Prime, Netflix, and Spotify, podcasts I pay for, and a few Patreons, add up to almost a hundred dollars a month. I was surprised it was so much. Money is tight for me right now, so I'm thinking about what I can cut, and hesitating before I think about adding a new podcast.
I will say that I just this morning cancelled my NY Times subscription, which I signed up for a couple of weeks ago because I missing doing the crossword. It didn't take me long to catch up on all the crosswords I'd missed while I was unsubscribed, so I didn't want to pay for another month, even at my special $6/month rate. It is now possible to cancel online, but there are several screens where they offer you even deeper discounts etc. before you actually get to cancel. That's OK, I think, because each screen was very clear and the "cancel" button on each one was clearly labelled and visible. I think it was even labelled in a way that, until the final screen, made it clear that button would not cancel the subscription—something like, "continue to cancel" or the like. That's a big improvement over the last time I cancelled my subscription.
I was listening to Pod Save America the other day and they were talking about how badly news outlets are doing: the recent closing of Buzzfeed News, for instance, as well as some others, and they mentioned that the New York Times is only doing OK financially on the back of the crossword and Wordle. I feel a sense of anxiety about this, and think, "Maybe I shouldn't cancel!" But I cancelled both the Washington Post and the Times because of their content. And I remind myself sternly that they are not charities. When they engage in both-siderism, or treat T***p like an ordinary presidential candidate, or, as the Post has done, lean big into the current client of transphobia and attacks on children, they're acting like businesses, making choices that, they hope, will increase their profits. So as much as I appreciate the important journalism they have done and still do, I steel myself to treat them as businesses as well.
Bit of a side track there.
posted by Well I never at 4:35 AM on May 6, 2023 [17 favorites]
I have fallen prey to the "x per month (billed annually)" trick. Fortunately, the service in question refunded me very quickly after I contacted customer service (without having to make a phone call). There was another time I only finally managed to cancel something by cancelling my card, which was a pretty drastic measure to have to take.
An app I use quite a lot, the journaling app Day One, has an annual subscription. It renewed on May 6 (today!) for $34.99. They didn't send me any notifications or alerts that it was renewing; I happened to notice because I was looking at all the subscriptions on my phone the other day, thinking about which ones I might cancel to save money. I only have a handful, but I hate the way all the apps have gone to a subscription rather than a buy-and-own model. I get why they're doing it, but it frustrates me, and they really add up. In March, I tracked all my spending very carefully, and realized that all my subscriptions, including Amazon Prime, Netflix, and Spotify, podcasts I pay for, and a few Patreons, add up to almost a hundred dollars a month. I was surprised it was so much. Money is tight for me right now, so I'm thinking about what I can cut, and hesitating before I think about adding a new podcast.
I will say that I just this morning cancelled my NY Times subscription, which I signed up for a couple of weeks ago because I missing doing the crossword. It didn't take me long to catch up on all the crosswords I'd missed while I was unsubscribed, so I didn't want to pay for another month, even at my special $6/month rate. It is now possible to cancel online, but there are several screens where they offer you even deeper discounts etc. before you actually get to cancel. That's OK, I think, because each screen was very clear and the "cancel" button on each one was clearly labelled and visible. I think it was even labelled in a way that, until the final screen, made it clear that button would not cancel the subscription—something like, "continue to cancel" or the like. That's a big improvement over the last time I cancelled my subscription.
I was listening to Pod Save America the other day and they were talking about how badly news outlets are doing: the recent closing of Buzzfeed News, for instance, as well as some others, and they mentioned that the New York Times is only doing OK financially on the back of the crossword and Wordle. I feel a sense of anxiety about this, and think, "Maybe I shouldn't cancel!" But I cancelled both the Washington Post and the Times because of their content. And I remind myself sternly that they are not charities. When they engage in both-siderism, or treat T***p like an ordinary presidential candidate, or, as the Post has done, lean big into the current client of transphobia and attacks on children, they're acting like businesses, making choices that, they hope, will increase their profits. So as much as I appreciate the important journalism they have done and still do, I steel myself to treat them as businesses as well.
Bit of a side track there.
posted by Well I never at 4:35 AM on May 6, 2023 [17 favorites]
Public Goods-- a company that sells from a curated list of household supplies and has simple packaging-- is especially egregious, or at least it's the one that snagged me. Buying anything means you get hit for $60 two weeks later.
It's possible they've improved, since a review I just read describes it as members-only-- the $60 is a membership fee.
They were good about refunding the $60.
I'm sorry to hear that Nord VPN is bad that way, since it's a sponsor for a number of yourtubers I like.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:48 AM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's possible they've improved, since a review I just read describes it as members-only-- the $60 is a membership fee.
They were good about refunding the $60.
I'm sorry to hear that Nord VPN is bad that way, since it's a sponsor for a number of yourtubers I like.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:48 AM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
The fool who keeps using my professional Gmail address as their own (without the dot separating my names) has recently signed up for PayPal. Which apparently you can do without verification. And my usual tactic of just requesting a password reset and cancelling the service won't work because they are requiring 2FA authentication for password resets.
I wonder if I can annoy them into fixing their email by continuely hitting the forgot password function.
posted by Mitheral at 5:37 AM on May 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
I wonder if I can annoy them into fixing their email by continuely hitting the forgot password function.
posted by Mitheral at 5:37 AM on May 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
I was annoyed enough by this article's own presentation in the form of a dark pattern that I very very quickly gave up on reading it.
Mission accomplished?
posted by flabdablet at 5:39 AM on May 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Mission accomplished?
posted by flabdablet at 5:39 AM on May 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Twenty years ago it took hours and a lot of arguing to cancel my CompuServe membership. Services have been deliberately doing this for a long time.
(edited because of unclear pronoun referent)
posted by Peach at 5:51 AM on May 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
(edited because of unclear pronoun referent)
posted by Peach at 5:51 AM on May 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Any discussion of dark patterns is a good discussion. It kills me seeing this stuff, knowing that people like me in my profession chose to build a product this way. To trick people into paying for something they don't want. Gross.
California has a couple of laws dating to 2018 and 2021 that protect consumers and make it easier to unsubscribe. Having a hard time finding a link that describes it but see here. The gist of it I've used is something that amounts to "if you can subscribe online, you get to unsubscribe online too". Some sites have special unsubscribe paths for Californians. Others just gave up and implement a humane cancellation for everyone because they had to do it for one state. I've also invoked the existence of the law in customer service chats to get a speedy unsubscribe.
The article mentions it took 17 minutes to cancel the NYT. I'm curious because it looks like I can cancel by digital only subscription just by pressing a few buttons on the website. The process is documented for everyone, not just Californians. It's a little annoying, there's like 5 screens preventing you to cancel but it looks like it'd work. I stopped short of actually cancelling, although I did take the 2/3 discount they offered me. I wonder what takes 17 minutes? Maybe it's a print subscription?
posted by Nelson at 7:01 AM on May 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
California has a couple of laws dating to 2018 and 2021 that protect consumers and make it easier to unsubscribe. Having a hard time finding a link that describes it but see here. The gist of it I've used is something that amounts to "if you can subscribe online, you get to unsubscribe online too". Some sites have special unsubscribe paths for Californians. Others just gave up and implement a humane cancellation for everyone because they had to do it for one state. I've also invoked the existence of the law in customer service chats to get a speedy unsubscribe.
The article mentions it took 17 minutes to cancel the NYT. I'm curious because it looks like I can cancel by digital only subscription just by pressing a few buttons on the website. The process is documented for everyone, not just Californians. It's a little annoying, there's like 5 screens preventing you to cancel but it looks like it'd work. I stopped short of actually cancelling, although I did take the 2/3 discount they offered me. I wonder what takes 17 minutes? Maybe it's a print subscription?
posted by Nelson at 7:01 AM on May 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Reminds me of this (then) well known tech journalist Ryan Block trying to cancel Comcast in 2012
After a disturbing amount of time on hold, and the customer retention agent insulting him, Block started recording the call. When he put the recording up on Soudcloud, most people were perturbed by the language used and the effort required to quit the subscription service.
[Ryan Block was the editor-in-chief of AOL’s Engadget, before he co-founded the community site gdgt, which was sold -for an unspecified amount - to AOL in 2013]
posted by Faintdreams at 7:10 AM on May 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
After a disturbing amount of time on hold, and the customer retention agent insulting him, Block started recording the call. When he put the recording up on Soudcloud, most people were perturbed by the language used and the effort required to quit the subscription service.
[Ryan Block was the editor-in-chief of AOL’s Engadget, before he co-founded the community site gdgt, which was sold -for an unspecified amount - to AOL in 2013]
posted by Faintdreams at 7:10 AM on May 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
The fool who keeps using my professional Gmail address as their own (without the dot separating my names) has recently signed up
I feel your pain! As an early adopter with a fairly simple Gmail address I am met with fools using my email all the goddamn time, and have developed a special seething rage towards sites that (a) don’t verify ownership of an address before using it to spam you, and especially (b) make it difficult or impossible to cancel.
Most of the time I can cancel or at least log in, change the email address to a throwaway or made-up one, or worst case scenario do a password reset (knowing I’ll be the one receiving the reset code by email) and then just log out forever. A few times the sites have retained an amazing amount of personal information even if no actual account has yet been created so I’m regularly getting people’s full name, address, phone number, e-tickets for various things (could have had a pair of tickets for a train ride through Europe, on someone else’s dime, just a few weeks ago), and at least once (for Verizon) full control over the account including ability to one-click cancel their phone service or change to an extortionately-expensive plan. (I’m hoping my call to Verizon customer service fixed that oversight, but Jesus, do better!!)
PlayStation was the worst of all of them, and not surprised to see it on the justdelete.me list as “impossible”. Step 1, to even log in to the account, you need a PlayStation. So when some dope used my email, it literally took me 3 years of constant back and-forth with people at multiple levels of the company before things were resolved. Every time I thought it was done, I’d get new mail weeks or months later. Eventually they deleted the account and I believe they blocked my email from ever being used to create a new account in their system.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:14 AM on May 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
I feel your pain! As an early adopter with a fairly simple Gmail address I am met with fools using my email all the goddamn time, and have developed a special seething rage towards sites that (a) don’t verify ownership of an address before using it to spam you, and especially (b) make it difficult or impossible to cancel.
Most of the time I can cancel or at least log in, change the email address to a throwaway or made-up one, or worst case scenario do a password reset (knowing I’ll be the one receiving the reset code by email) and then just log out forever. A few times the sites have retained an amazing amount of personal information even if no actual account has yet been created so I’m regularly getting people’s full name, address, phone number, e-tickets for various things (could have had a pair of tickets for a train ride through Europe, on someone else’s dime, just a few weeks ago), and at least once (for Verizon) full control over the account including ability to one-click cancel their phone service or change to an extortionately-expensive plan. (I’m hoping my call to Verizon customer service fixed that oversight, but Jesus, do better!!)
PlayStation was the worst of all of them, and not surprised to see it on the justdelete.me list as “impossible”. Step 1, to even log in to the account, you need a PlayStation. So when some dope used my email, it literally took me 3 years of constant back and-forth with people at multiple levels of the company before things were resolved. Every time I thought it was done, I’d get new mail weeks or months later. Eventually they deleted the account and I believe they blocked my email from ever being used to create a new account in their system.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:14 AM on May 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
All of these horror stories really make me appreciate how Square Enix handles billing for my Final Fantasy XIV subscription. I get an email a few days in advance saying "We're about to process a payment for your FFXIV sub for $XX.XX, on this date." And then, a few days later, I get an email with a receipt saying the charge completed successfully. I can also cancel or pause my subscription by logging into my account, and clicking a couple buttons. No harassment, no hoops to jump through. It's refreshing.
posted by xedrik at 7:38 AM on May 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by xedrik at 7:38 AM on May 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
I work in a subscription-based industry, and while I won't go into details, there have certainly been some bad actors over the years that have brought intense scrutiny down on everyone. My particular company, however, was fortunately well ahead of the curve on modernizing and we are incredibly conscientious about compliance, customer experience, and not doing Dumb Shit(tm).
That said, I've become very familiar with what both the law requires, and what credit card processors and the like will tolerate. And let me tell you it is wildly inconsistent. I see major corporations do shit on a regular basis that would get us fined or blacklisted in an instant. Until our regulatory agencies agree that everybody has to play by the same rules, it's pretty much caveat emptor forever.
posted by Zargon X at 8:08 AM on May 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
That said, I've become very familiar with what both the law requires, and what credit card processors and the like will tolerate. And let me tell you it is wildly inconsistent. I see major corporations do shit on a regular basis that would get us fined or blacklisted in an instant. Until our regulatory agencies agree that everybody has to play by the same rules, it's pretty much caveat emptor forever.
posted by Zargon X at 8:08 AM on May 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
@Well I Never - I had that EXACT experience and train of thought. Good to know we’re not alone in the world. 💗
posted by beckybakeroo at 8:14 AM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by beckybakeroo at 8:14 AM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Lobster traps are hardly a recent invention. Virtual Credit Card account numbers are, and the perfectly easy means of taking back control in response to this kind of consumer abuse (and data breaches, no less.)
posted by Fupped Duck at 10:21 AM on May 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Fupped Duck at 10:21 AM on May 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yup, virtual credit cards. Privacy.com has saved my ass many times. You can create single-use cards, use an alias name & address, adjust the card max up or down, limit charges by time period or total usasge. Each card is valid for one vendor only and you can create as many cards as you like .
posted by mono blanco at 11:44 AM on May 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by mono blanco at 11:44 AM on May 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
Does anyone know if and how services like Rocket Money do an endrun around the call to cancel thing?
posted by Selena777 at 12:46 PM on May 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Selena777 at 12:46 PM on May 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
My most hated dark pattern of late is the "one listing but different options within at different prices and characteristics" trick. AliExpress is good at listing what I expect to be a high-price item like a camera lens at $5, but when you click in, you find that the default purchase option is the $5 lenscap, and you have to select an internal 'option' to select the camera lens plus lenscap for $400.
On Amazon, just yesterday, I was tricked by searching for queen-sized sheets, but accidentally added twin-size sheets to my cart because if you changed the color of the sheets in what looks like a listing for queen-sized sheets, it also changed the size because the option change wasn't "queen size but also blue" but "these are our brand of sheets in many sizes, and you have chosen the ones which are blue and twin".
That's on top of how Amazon does not honor "exclude" searches at all -- it doesn't matter if you have "queen" in your search, you're going to get all sheet sizes and there's no way to do "-twin" or "-king".
posted by AzraelBrown at 2:41 PM on May 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
On Amazon, just yesterday, I was tricked by searching for queen-sized sheets, but accidentally added twin-size sheets to my cart because if you changed the color of the sheets in what looks like a listing for queen-sized sheets, it also changed the size because the option change wasn't "queen size but also blue" but "these are our brand of sheets in many sizes, and you have chosen the ones which are blue and twin".
That's on top of how Amazon does not honor "exclude" searches at all -- it doesn't matter if you have "queen" in your search, you're going to get all sheet sizes and there's no way to do "-twin" or "-king".
posted by AzraelBrown at 2:41 PM on May 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
Contacting a company directly via Twitter is often a quicker way to fix problems like this. Too bad that won’t be possible for much longer.
posted by gottabefunky at 3:19 PM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 3:19 PM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
It was not long ago that I finally cancelled my NYT subscription after many years. It took a phone call to complete the process.
As someone who took great pleasure devouring the print edition of the Sunday NYT in the past, I'm happy to report that I do not miss the digital subscription one tiny bit.
posted by djseafood at 4:15 PM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
As someone who took great pleasure devouring the print edition of the Sunday NYT in the past, I'm happy to report that I do not miss the digital subscription one tiny bit.
posted by djseafood at 4:15 PM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I recently accidentally subscribed to Amazon Prime because of how they just try to wedge it in there for a free trial if you don't have it, and I didn't notice it until it dinged my card for the monthly fee.
And, well, I'm actually really impressed that I was able to get it canceled *and* get a refund in just a few minutes of a live chat agent.
On the other hand they probably have a whole department of CSR agents that do nothing but deal with annoyed people who accidentally clicked "yes" on an Amazon prime trial, and there's probably even more people who just go with it or don't even realize they're paying for Prime.
It was honestly one of the least annoying dark pattern subscription fuckups I've ever had to deal with. Like 30 seconds in a chat window, refund in 2-3 days, done.
posted by loquacious at 5:43 PM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
And, well, I'm actually really impressed that I was able to get it canceled *and* get a refund in just a few minutes of a live chat agent.
On the other hand they probably have a whole department of CSR agents that do nothing but deal with annoyed people who accidentally clicked "yes" on an Amazon prime trial, and there's probably even more people who just go with it or don't even realize they're paying for Prime.
It was honestly one of the least annoying dark pattern subscription fuckups I've ever had to deal with. Like 30 seconds in a chat window, refund in 2-3 days, done.
posted by loquacious at 5:43 PM on May 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
The fool who keeps using my professional Gmail address as their own (without the dot separating my names) has recently signed up
Yeah I'd like to go back in time about 20 years (!) and have a stern talk with myself about my choice of email address, because I thought I was being slick and adopting a nice, short early adopter email address. It's so short that people blink when I tell them what it is.
And now I get so much fucking spam and random signups from doofuses.
I used to try to be nice about it because I was getting a lot of sensitive info like family photos, legal documents and even legit job offers or communications but I ran out of fucks to give a long time ago so I've gone full chaotic evil on any of that shit.
One time a few years ago I somehow got signed up to some youth sports little league or Pop Warner thing that was really badly run and often just used CC fields with dozens of email addresses and started a raging suburban Next Door app grade furball kerfuffle by asking to be removed from any/all of their lists and pointing out they were sending out sensitive information about their kids to a complete stranger and ended up getting treated like I was some super leet black hat hacker for being on an email list I never signed up for.
Another doofus kept using my email address for stuff like car maintenance appointments and hair salon reservations and all kinds of stuff where I'd often get their full name, address and phone number and they don't even have anything close to the same name as me so I have no idea what the fuck they're thinking using my name and email address for any of this.
I actually called them once and told them to knock it off and their response was to tell me to go fuck myself.
They finally stopped using my email (I think!) because I just started canceling their appointments thanks to the handy links in the appointment confirmation emails and just generally wasting their time.
But I must have canceled dozens of their appointments over a year or so before they apparently got the idea that no, it wasn't ok to just randomly make up or use someone's email for anything you cared about.
posted by loquacious at 6:01 PM on May 6, 2023 [15 favorites]
Yeah I'd like to go back in time about 20 years (!) and have a stern talk with myself about my choice of email address, because I thought I was being slick and adopting a nice, short early adopter email address. It's so short that people blink when I tell them what it is.
And now I get so much fucking spam and random signups from doofuses.
I used to try to be nice about it because I was getting a lot of sensitive info like family photos, legal documents and even legit job offers or communications but I ran out of fucks to give a long time ago so I've gone full chaotic evil on any of that shit.
One time a few years ago I somehow got signed up to some youth sports little league or Pop Warner thing that was really badly run and often just used CC fields with dozens of email addresses and started a raging suburban Next Door app grade furball kerfuffle by asking to be removed from any/all of their lists and pointing out they were sending out sensitive information about their kids to a complete stranger and ended up getting treated like I was some super leet black hat hacker for being on an email list I never signed up for.
Another doofus kept using my email address for stuff like car maintenance appointments and hair salon reservations and all kinds of stuff where I'd often get their full name, address and phone number and they don't even have anything close to the same name as me so I have no idea what the fuck they're thinking using my name and email address for any of this.
I actually called them once and told them to knock it off and their response was to tell me to go fuck myself.
They finally stopped using my email (I think!) because I just started canceling their appointments thanks to the handy links in the appointment confirmation emails and just generally wasting their time.
But I must have canceled dozens of their appointments over a year or so before they apparently got the idea that no, it wasn't ok to just randomly make up or use someone's email for anything you cared about.
posted by loquacious at 6:01 PM on May 6, 2023 [15 favorites]
how they just try to wedge it in there for a free trial if you don't have it
I recently placed an order with Amazon and at some point during checkout I got told that I was getting a 30 day free trial of Prime. When I log into my Amazon account and search for "cancel prime" I get taken to a results page that's not super helpful.
Yes, there's a link and a button in "Alexa's answer" above the rest of the results that takes me to Prime Central, but I cannot find any trace there of "update, cancel and more" that the answer tells me I need to select.
What is clearly visible is a notice that says they're giving me a 30 day free trial, and a big orange button labelled "Start your free 30 day trial".
This leads me to believe that I am in fact not currently in a 30 day free trial, and won't be unless I click that button, and therefore have nothing to cancel. Am I wrong? Is Amazon Prime even darker than I thought? I don't propose to click their stupid button to find out but I will certainly be keeping an even closer eye on my credit card statements for the next couple of months.
ended up getting treated like I was some super leet black hat hacker for being on an email list I never signed up for
This is 2023. All you need in order to be considered a super 1337 black hat hacker is knowing how to type an actual URL into a browser address omnibox by hand. Giving any hint that you might know what bcc: means will just 🤯 the normies. Don't do it. It's cruel.
posted by flabdablet at 6:26 PM on May 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
I recently placed an order with Amazon and at some point during checkout I got told that I was getting a 30 day free trial of Prime. When I log into my Amazon account and search for "cancel prime" I get taken to a results page that's not super helpful.
Yes, there's a link and a button in "Alexa's answer" above the rest of the results that takes me to Prime Central, but I cannot find any trace there of "update, cancel and more" that the answer tells me I need to select.
What is clearly visible is a notice that says they're giving me a 30 day free trial, and a big orange button labelled "Start your free 30 day trial".
This leads me to believe that I am in fact not currently in a 30 day free trial, and won't be unless I click that button, and therefore have nothing to cancel. Am I wrong? Is Amazon Prime even darker than I thought? I don't propose to click their stupid button to find out but I will certainly be keeping an even closer eye on my credit card statements for the next couple of months.
ended up getting treated like I was some super leet black hat hacker for being on an email list I never signed up for
This is 2023. All you need in order to be considered a super 1337 black hat hacker is knowing how to type an actual URL into a browser address omnibox by hand. Giving any hint that you might know what bcc: means will just 🤯 the normies. Don't do it. It's cruel.
posted by flabdablet at 6:26 PM on May 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
I recently placed an order with Amazon and at some point during checkout I got told that I was getting a 30 day free trial of Prime. When I log into my Amazon account and search for "cancel prime" I get taken to a results page that's not super helpful.
Yes, there's a link and a button in "Alexa's answer" above the rest of the results that takes me to Prime Central, but I cannot find any trace there of "update, cancel and more" that the answer tells me I need to select.
I never saw any of that and just went directly to what appeared to be their main support/chat page from the bottom sitemap-like bar.
Maybe I just got lucky because I was expecting to have to box with a phone tree.
posted by loquacious at 6:54 PM on May 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yes, there's a link and a button in "Alexa's answer" above the rest of the results that takes me to Prime Central, but I cannot find any trace there of "update, cancel and more" that the answer tells me I need to select.
I never saw any of that and just went directly to what appeared to be their main support/chat page from the bottom sitemap-like bar.
Maybe I just got lucky because I was expecting to have to box with a phone tree.
posted by loquacious at 6:54 PM on May 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
One positive thing I will say about Amazon: in all cases I have been able to easily and quickly contact a person who is authorized to take action regarding my problem in my favor. Mostly I've had to contact them because of problems inherent in how Amazon does business, but I was able to get it fixed without much hassle.
posted by AzraelBrown at 4:44 AM on May 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by AzraelBrown at 4:44 AM on May 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I recently cancelled my Amazon Prime subscription (which I mainly had for the purposes of saving money on shipping, since I live out in the sticks and very often it’s Amazon or nothing), because they have an Amazon Family thing now that lets me piggyback off a friend’s account and still get Prime benefits.
I still got emails warning me that my Prime was going to be renewed, and when I went to confirm I’d cancelled, dire warnings about how I was going to lose Prime benefits, even though I’d joined an Amazon Family by then so the system had to have known, at that point, that I would lose nothing.
Somewhat similarly, I ordered a takeaway through UberEats a few months back that never arrived. Getting my money back took digging up a phone number to complain to (because their website only led me in circles), then waiting two more weeks so I could complain to my bank and get them to intervene when the promised refund did not, in fact, arrive.
It’s infuriating, and a waste of time, and that’s exactly what they’re counting on.
posted by sailoreagle at 12:02 PM on May 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I still got emails warning me that my Prime was going to be renewed, and when I went to confirm I’d cancelled, dire warnings about how I was going to lose Prime benefits, even though I’d joined an Amazon Family by then so the system had to have known, at that point, that I would lose nothing.
Somewhat similarly, I ordered a takeaway through UberEats a few months back that never arrived. Getting my money back took digging up a phone number to complain to (because their website only led me in circles), then waiting two more weeks so I could complain to my bank and get them to intervene when the promised refund did not, in fact, arrive.
It’s infuriating, and a waste of time, and that’s exactly what they’re counting on.
posted by sailoreagle at 12:02 PM on May 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Does anyone know if and how services like Rocket Money do an end run around the call to cancel thing?
Having read many positive reviews of Trim, I recently set up a Trim account with that exact goal in mind. I was disappointed at the number of times that Trim informed me that it could not cancel a given thing and that I would have to do so myself.
So my experience is that services like Rocket Money don't do an end run around the call. Sigh. (If anyone has had a better experience, I'm all ears, of course.)
posted by virago at 12:24 PM on May 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Having read many positive reviews of Trim, I recently set up a Trim account with that exact goal in mind. I was disappointed at the number of times that Trim informed me that it could not cancel a given thing and that I would have to do so myself.
So my experience is that services like Rocket Money don't do an end run around the call. Sigh. (If anyone has had a better experience, I'm all ears, of course.)
posted by virago at 12:24 PM on May 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Adobe got me. I needed one of their stock images for something I was working on. I swear I canceled my free trial that signed me up for a whole year. They said I didn't. After a lengthy email exchange they canceled it but charged me the difference between the yearly monthly price and the monthly price. I said fine because it got them out of my hair.
posted by kathrynm at 5:31 PM on May 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kathrynm at 5:31 PM on May 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
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This was about 20 years ago, the worst I found was McAfee anti-virus.
About 80% of the way through their extensive terms, was a paragraph that was intentionally very easy to miss. that said
"..By agreeing to these terms and buying our software, you authorise us to automatically renew your subscription every year, at whatever price we may increase your subscription to, even if you are no longer using it or downloading updates. If you don't wish to renew, click on [this link] and speak to one of our team. You must quote the following code, along with your user details..." (or words very closely to that affect).
So I clicked in the link, a tiny chat window appeared on a big page full of other crap, and was just told 'someone will be with you soon'. About 40 minutes later someone appeared briefly, said hello, and then closed the chat window 15 seconds later.
So I went back to the link, reopened a new chat window, and sat staring at the screen with my hands poised on the keyboard for another 40
minutes. This time I was able to reply in time, told them I wanted to not auto-renew, quoted the required special code, and was told my request would be honoured.
Then I blocked my card.
posted by many-things at 2:55 AM on May 6, 2023 [37 favorites]