There are infinite planets, infinite stories, and infinite possibilities
May 10, 2023 11:03 PM Subscribe
Nobel prize-winning astrophysicist Didier Queloz explores the astronomy behind Hovoyerse (developer of Genshin Impact and Honkai Impact 3rd et al)'s new interstellar turn-based RPG Honkai Star Rail.
You play as the Trailblazer, following the Path of Trailblaze, sort of idealizing exploring and curiosity.
Your first path is actually Destruction because of the Stellaron installed in you; you just happen to be hitching a ride with a bunch of Trailblazers to whatever your end goal is. You then pick up Preservation's favor during the first planet's final boss. The MC seems to be a Roving Unaffiliated sort.
posted by creatrixtiara at 4:39 AM on May 11, 2023
Your first path is actually Destruction because of the Stellaron installed in you; you just happen to be hitching a ride with a bunch of Trailblazers to whatever your end goal is. You then pick up Preservation's favor during the first planet's final boss. The MC seems to be a Roving Unaffiliated sort.
posted by creatrixtiara at 4:39 AM on May 11, 2023
The description sounds amazing, and I love xdvesper 's framing. My fear is that too much amazingness will be locked behind the gacha (lootbox) mechanics. Does anyone know how that works in practice? Can you ignore the gacha and still make progress/have fun?
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 6:29 AM on May 11, 2023
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 6:29 AM on May 11, 2023
I didn't have any issues assembling a good team in Genshin Impact with free pulls. I'm not that far along in Star Rails, but a common comment I see is how good the free characters are. (You can't ignore the gatcha system, since that's a primary source of weapons and characters. Doesn't mean that you have to spend money on it, though.)
posted by Spike Glee at 6:57 AM on May 11, 2023
posted by Spike Glee at 6:57 AM on May 11, 2023
My fear is that too much amazingness will be locked behind the gacha (lootbox) mechanics. Does anyone know how that works in practice? Can you ignore the gacha and still make progress/have fun?
Yes, definitely. Hoyoverse's insight in this space is them figuring out that most players HATE paying for "power", because that's just cheap, all it takes is for them to tweak the damage values in the server database, and then it becomes a mechanical calculation of dollars per point of damage, which, ugh. But players will part with thousands of dollars to pay for a character they love - in voice acting, visual design, clothes, animations. The Seele promo trailer is gorgeous, and there's a long history because she mimics the original Seele in Honkai Impact 3rd so there are existing fans from a previous game pulling for her. And once you position the game concept this way, then there are no low value characters - every character has the potential to make them a boatload of money, because someone out there is going to love them and roll for them, and so they actually have the incentive to keep them roughly in a similar power level band and not make them unplayable / useless.
I actually believe the canonical way of the game is to completely ignore the gacha element... because the gacha element is very immersion breaking.
You get a full roster of 8 characters for free and they are well strong enough to complete all content in the game available right now, and if prior experiences with Genshin carry forward to this game, they will be more than capable of completing later end game content such as Forgotten Halls chaos mode as well.
The main trio - March (enthusiastic and giddy) and Dan Heng (silent stoic foil to her) - and yourself - are a really solid 3 persons to have in a team forever, and you will feel most comfortable using them because it's "you" running around the world talking to people and completing quests with your two best buddies.
I am playing two accounts at the moment, one with just using free characters and another using the starter characters. Is the limited time gacha Seele stronger than Dan Heng, considering both of them follow The Hunt path, fulfilling the single target DPS role in the team? Not hugely so, and they cover different element weaknesses anyway. I don't feel much "weaker" using Dan Heng in the team compared to Seele, and in some cases Dan Heng outperforms.
The immersion breaking part I mentioned - it's when you pull some character in the gacha, and play as them, when you haven't even met them in the actual story yet... ugh. But I guess I understand the gacha element is what pays the bills for them, so there's no real way around it.
This is a short clip of someone using a completely no-pull account to complete Forgotten Halls Stage 15 which is the hardest accessible content in the game right now, 5 days ago, immediately as they hit TB40 and were capable of attempting it. They breezed it no problem without using the roughly 260 free gacha pulls the game would given you by that point. (for reference, you can buy 80 pulls for USD100 more or less... basically it makes no sense to gacha that amount of money for the "power" it gains you, you'd only pay that much because you fell in love with the character)
posted by xdvesper at 7:00 AM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yes, definitely. Hoyoverse's insight in this space is them figuring out that most players HATE paying for "power", because that's just cheap, all it takes is for them to tweak the damage values in the server database, and then it becomes a mechanical calculation of dollars per point of damage, which, ugh. But players will part with thousands of dollars to pay for a character they love - in voice acting, visual design, clothes, animations. The Seele promo trailer is gorgeous, and there's a long history because she mimics the original Seele in Honkai Impact 3rd so there are existing fans from a previous game pulling for her. And once you position the game concept this way, then there are no low value characters - every character has the potential to make them a boatload of money, because someone out there is going to love them and roll for them, and so they actually have the incentive to keep them roughly in a similar power level band and not make them unplayable / useless.
I actually believe the canonical way of the game is to completely ignore the gacha element... because the gacha element is very immersion breaking.
You get a full roster of 8 characters for free and they are well strong enough to complete all content in the game available right now, and if prior experiences with Genshin carry forward to this game, they will be more than capable of completing later end game content such as Forgotten Halls chaos mode as well.
The main trio - March (enthusiastic and giddy) and Dan Heng (silent stoic foil to her) - and yourself - are a really solid 3 persons to have in a team forever, and you will feel most comfortable using them because it's "you" running around the world talking to people and completing quests with your two best buddies.
I am playing two accounts at the moment, one with just using free characters and another using the starter characters. Is the limited time gacha Seele stronger than Dan Heng, considering both of them follow The Hunt path, fulfilling the single target DPS role in the team? Not hugely so, and they cover different element weaknesses anyway. I don't feel much "weaker" using Dan Heng in the team compared to Seele, and in some cases Dan Heng outperforms.
The immersion breaking part I mentioned - it's when you pull some character in the gacha, and play as them, when you haven't even met them in the actual story yet... ugh. But I guess I understand the gacha element is what pays the bills for them, so there's no real way around it.
This is a short clip of someone using a completely no-pull account to complete Forgotten Halls Stage 15 which is the hardest accessible content in the game right now, 5 days ago, immediately as they hit TB40 and were capable of attempting it. They breezed it no problem without using the roughly 260 free gacha pulls the game would given you by that point. (for reference, you can buy 80 pulls for USD100 more or less... basically it makes no sense to gacha that amount of money for the "power" it gains you, you'd only pay that much because you fell in love with the character)
posted by xdvesper at 7:00 AM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've played Genshin since Feb 2022 and HSR on release both free-to-play. You get SO MUCH free wishing-currency from doing things in the game and the occasional promo elsewhere - I've already gotten a stack of 5-stars (including the banner 5-star) on HSR within a week and I barely even use them tbh. HSR allows you to borrow another player's chosen support character (which you can set for yourself in settings) so if you need a higher-powered support for some dungeons you can get that.
There are the occasional times that I rue my gacha luck (Nahida...T_T) but that's more because the character has a cute gimmick (she can READ MINDS) rather than feeling like I need to get overpowered to get past any part of the game. I've more often taught about paying to help support Hoyoverse's engagement in arts and culture (e.g. the OP video, their various Chinese arts videos for Genshin) but they've got tons of money, I'll wait until they have some killer merch that I definitely want or they release a print manga (I know about the webtoon) or something where the money makes sense,
posted by creatrixtiara at 7:27 AM on May 11, 2023
There are the occasional times that I rue my gacha luck (Nahida...T_T) but that's more because the character has a cute gimmick (she can READ MINDS) rather than feeling like I need to get overpowered to get past any part of the game. I've more often taught about paying to help support Hoyoverse's engagement in arts and culture (e.g. the OP video, their various Chinese arts videos for Genshin) but they've got tons of money, I'll wait until they have some killer merch that I definitely want or they release a print manga (I know about the webtoon) or something where the money makes sense,
posted by creatrixtiara at 7:27 AM on May 11, 2023
Your first path is actually Destruction because of the Stellaron installed in you
I interpreted it differently... the crew of the express are Trailblazers because they follow in the Path of the Trailblaze, but for whatever reason, it's not a path that has enough energy to tap on, at least in the gameplay sense - there are likely dozens of paths in the game that don't yield any gameplay powers either (besides Trailblaze, there's Elation, Voracity, etc). The Aeon of Trailblaze Akivili is dead, or missing, but a mere thing like death doesn't stop its followers, like any religion today.
The Trailblazers also align their will to other Paths which allows them access to their powers. The MC gets access to Destruction Path powers at the start, but they choose to be a Trailblazer. It's hard to argue that the MC's actions and motivations align closer to Destruction than Trailblaze, and the same goes for all the Express crew.
But yea from a gameplay perspective, there's no such thing as a Trailblaze path so you get Destruction / Preservation powers, but from a lore perspective I still say you're a Trailblazer =P
posted by xdvesper at 7:33 AM on May 11, 2023
I interpreted it differently... the crew of the express are Trailblazers because they follow in the Path of the Trailblaze, but for whatever reason, it's not a path that has enough energy to tap on, at least in the gameplay sense - there are likely dozens of paths in the game that don't yield any gameplay powers either (besides Trailblaze, there's Elation, Voracity, etc). The Aeon of Trailblaze Akivili is dead, or missing, but a mere thing like death doesn't stop its followers, like any religion today.
The Trailblazers also align their will to other Paths which allows them access to their powers. The MC gets access to Destruction Path powers at the start, but they choose to be a Trailblazer. It's hard to argue that the MC's actions and motivations align closer to Destruction than Trailblaze, and the same goes for all the Express crew.
But yea from a gameplay perspective, there's no such thing as a Trailblaze path so you get Destruction / Preservation powers, but from a lore perspective I still say you're a Trailblazer =P
posted by xdvesper at 7:33 AM on May 11, 2023
This looks cool, but I’ve never played an RPG on my iPad. Will this be fun with screen touch controls?
posted by caviar2d2 at 8:43 AM on May 11, 2023
posted by caviar2d2 at 8:43 AM on May 11, 2023
Combat is turn-based, movement around areas is WASD. I don't see any issues with managing this on an iPad.
My suggestion: investigate the trash cans and bins around Belobog whenever possible. They, too, have their stories to tell.
posted by SPrintF at 9:29 AM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
My suggestion: investigate the trash cans and bins around Belobog whenever possible. They, too, have their stories to tell.
posted by SPrintF at 9:29 AM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Thank you for the detailed explanations and enthusiasm, xdvesper and creatrixtiara. I'm going to give this game a try now that you've defused my gacha phobia :)
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 10:24 AM on May 11, 2023
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 10:24 AM on May 11, 2023
One annoyance is that you can't remap WASD. I ended up doing it in the keyboard driver, which can do it on a per app basis.
posted by Spike Glee at 10:55 AM on May 11, 2023
posted by Spike Glee at 10:55 AM on May 11, 2023
I'm really enjoying HSR - the free drops have been enough for me to get two of the heavier hitters, and adding that to the free healer has given me a pretty effective team.
Hoyoverse still has the issue of all their characters lacking melanin, with one PC being a little more tan than the rest. There was even a questline involving a character whose was called "Man with Afro" that had the name changed "Man with Luscious Hair" because I guess somebody figured out there isn't a single black person in the game. I've also run into a battle rapper, so they've got hip-hop in Jarilo-VI, just no one to invent it.
Fans let is slide, but everyone on Jarilo-VI is coded as European with French or Russian last names. So this isn't a case of Chinese developer makes games with Chinese characters.
posted by thecjm at 11:32 AM on May 11, 2023
Hoyoverse still has the issue of all their characters lacking melanin, with one PC being a little more tan than the rest. There was even a questline involving a character whose was called "Man with Afro" that had the name changed "Man with Luscious Hair" because I guess somebody figured out there isn't a single black person in the game. I've also run into a battle rapper, so they've got hip-hop in Jarilo-VI, just no one to invent it.
Fans let is slide, but everyone on Jarilo-VI is coded as European with French or Russian last names. So this isn't a case of Chinese developer makes games with Chinese characters.
posted by thecjm at 11:32 AM on May 11, 2023
One annoyance is that you can't remap WASD.
Yes, this is irritating. I picked up an inexpensive game controller just to escape from the tyranny of WASD. To the game's credit, it detects whether input is coming from keyboard or controller and updates the displayed prompts quickly (although it doesn't allow switching control modes mid-combat).
posted by SPrintF at 12:23 PM on May 11, 2023
Yes, this is irritating. I picked up an inexpensive game controller just to escape from the tyranny of WASD. To the game's credit, it detects whether input is coming from keyboard or controller and updates the displayed prompts quickly (although it doesn't allow switching control modes mid-combat).
posted by SPrintF at 12:23 PM on May 11, 2023
I’ve never played an RPG on my iPad. Will this be fun with screen touch controls?
I'm playing it exclusively on my iPad for now and while navigating the overworld is a little hinky, there's little pressure in that mode, and as noted the combat is turn-based and works great via touch.
It's surprisingly fun, and the writing in particular stands out from Genshin. I was ready to try it and bounce off, having already played way too much Genshin; but being turn-based instead of button-mash combat, plus a bunch of quality-of-life upgrades & the more engaging/amusing writing, plus the somewhat novel setting – I might stick with this for a while.
Bonus facts: Qingque, the mahjong playing diviner (whose gimmick is, again, surprisingly more fun than expected) is voiced in the Japanese by a VA who is also a professional mahjong competitor! Similarly, Serval - who is a rock musician and not a cat nor even a catgirl - is voiced by a Japanese musician. No idea if the Chinese/English/Korean actresses also share these traits...
posted by cyrusdogstar at 3:28 PM on May 11, 2023
I'm playing it exclusively on my iPad for now and while navigating the overworld is a little hinky, there's little pressure in that mode, and as noted the combat is turn-based and works great via touch.
It's surprisingly fun, and the writing in particular stands out from Genshin. I was ready to try it and bounce off, having already played way too much Genshin; but being turn-based instead of button-mash combat, plus a bunch of quality-of-life upgrades & the more engaging/amusing writing, plus the somewhat novel setting – I might stick with this for a while.
Bonus facts: Qingque, the mahjong playing diviner (whose gimmick is, again, surprisingly more fun than expected) is voiced in the Japanese by a VA who is also a professional mahjong competitor! Similarly, Serval - who is a rock musician and not a cat nor even a catgirl - is voiced by a Japanese musician. No idea if the Chinese/English/Korean actresses also share these traits...
posted by cyrusdogstar at 3:28 PM on May 11, 2023
Qingque, the mahjong playing diviner (whose gimmick is, again, surprisingly more fun than expected)
I like how her gameplay and theme / personality gets intertwined. She's all about being efficient and doing the least amount of work, and in her gameplay she doesn't actually spend any skill points, she just waits for other people to do stuff (whenever another character plays a turn she flips a new mahjong tile) and when she gets a 4 set she does a big attack for free. Yet at the same time, if the need really arises, she gets off her bum and puts in enough work to look competent, and that's where her skill point management comes in, she can burn away extra skill points by flipping her mahjong tiles repeatedly.
And Seele, who is impulsive and direct to the point she doesn't wait for her turn (she has the ability to skip ahead and get extra turns) haha.
posted by xdvesper at 9:33 PM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I like how her gameplay and theme / personality gets intertwined. She's all about being efficient and doing the least amount of work, and in her gameplay she doesn't actually spend any skill points, she just waits for other people to do stuff (whenever another character plays a turn she flips a new mahjong tile) and when she gets a 4 set she does a big attack for free. Yet at the same time, if the need really arises, she gets off her bum and puts in enough work to look competent, and that's where her skill point management comes in, she can burn away extra skill points by flipping her mahjong tiles repeatedly.
And Seele, who is impulsive and direct to the point she doesn't wait for her turn (she has the ability to skip ahead and get extra turns) haha.
posted by xdvesper at 9:33 PM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've enjoyed Star Rail, but I'm completely stuck. My current quest has a level 42 battle which I can't win (and yes, I have the right element types). My characters are all locked at level 40, because to progress further I need to complete a later story mission.
In general I don't like the leveling system, but previous roadblocks have been fixable (level up more, or use different characters). Its not even fixable by spending money, though I blame the gacha system anyway.
posted by zompist at 12:10 AM on May 20, 2023
In general I don't like the leveling system, but previous roadblocks have been fixable (level up more, or use different characters). Its not even fixable by spending money, though I blame the gacha system anyway.
posted by zompist at 12:10 AM on May 20, 2023
zompist: increase your Trailblaze level (you can do this by grinding at the various calyxes/Simulated Universes/etc). This will eventually prompt you to do a thing to unlock further Trailblaze levels, which also lets you upgrade your characters.
posted by creatrixtiara at 7:39 AM on May 20, 2023
posted by creatrixtiara at 7:39 AM on May 20, 2023
Also I found that you can still do battles that are a couple of levels above your character's current level - it may be harder but it's still possible
posted by creatrixtiara at 7:40 AM on May 20, 2023
posted by creatrixtiara at 7:40 AM on May 20, 2023
Zompist - perhaps you're missing a step, and it's totally not your fault, these gacha games have their own unique design language. To reiterate what Creatrixtriara said -
1. Your Trailblaze level will increment upwards every day by doing the daily activities and using your Trailblaze power at Calyxes to obtain Ascension Materials or other upgrade materials.
2. When you reach Trailblaze Level 30, you get a quest to raise the World Equilibrium Level to Two (enabling level 50 characters). This quest is not linked to any other story requirement.
As for combat, the game seems designed for it to be possible to clear up to 10 levels above, and about 15 levels above in Simulated Universe due to the ridiculously OP buffs. I think part of the design of these games is having enough interlocking synergies that would allow you to beat harder enemies.
I know this isn't quite related to your issue but I recently completed a 2 out of 3 star clear of Memory of Chaos 2 - you fight four level 70 bosses consecutively, I used a level 59 team, this is the last of the four.
I also beat the absolute living shit out of the level 68 Svarog with a level 59 team in Simulated Universe 4-2, the random combination of buffs had me laughing.
posted by xdvesper at 7:30 PM on May 21, 2023
1. Your Trailblaze level will increment upwards every day by doing the daily activities and using your Trailblaze power at Calyxes to obtain Ascension Materials or other upgrade materials.
2. When you reach Trailblaze Level 30, you get a quest to raise the World Equilibrium Level to Two (enabling level 50 characters). This quest is not linked to any other story requirement.
As for combat, the game seems designed for it to be possible to clear up to 10 levels above, and about 15 levels above in Simulated Universe due to the ridiculously OP buffs. I think part of the design of these games is having enough interlocking synergies that would allow you to beat harder enemies.
I know this isn't quite related to your issue but I recently completed a 2 out of 3 star clear of Memory of Chaos 2 - you fight four level 70 bosses consecutively, I used a level 59 team, this is the last of the four.
I also beat the absolute living shit out of the level 68 Svarog with a level 59 team in Simulated Universe 4-2, the random combination of buffs had me laughing.
posted by xdvesper at 7:30 PM on May 21, 2023
OK, I'm unblocked. I did defeat Mr. Level 42. Actually that fight was for a special treasure and not necessary for the mission. :P
posted by zompist at 4:23 AM on May 22, 2023
posted by zompist at 4:23 AM on May 22, 2023
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You can see it in the Closed Beta Trailer where every single character just oozes personality, and their faces are so expressive. The voice acting quality, auto lip-sync, and daily interactions you have - particularly the instant text exchanges - are really a cut above what we had in Genshin and often had me laughing out loud at how relatable and human they were. The animated shorts that advance the story outside the game are in 2D - this is the first one (A Flash) they released a week before Jing Yuan is released.
Thinking about it, Genshin is sort of what Lord of the Rings is - a milieu type story. Legolas is a personification of all elves, he isn't an actual character with his own personality, dreams, traumas, lovers, or even character arc with growth and change. Like the characters in LOTR, Genshin characters seem designed to represent a certain type, vision, or ideal.
Honkai Star Rail probably follows Honkai Impact 3rd which does more character growth and melodrama, which is something to my preference. It's too early to tell, but the characters definitely feel a lot more real and relatable. I love talking to March and Dan Heng... Paimon not so much.
Similarly, on the the topic of astronomy / sci-fi - I think the universe building feels way more dynamic and high stakes. In Genshin you had a bunch of archons and nations, who were just their own thing.
(Minor spoilers) - in as much as you can spoil the entire universe-building concept - there are different "Paths" in the universe, sort of like ideals, which are created when an Aeon is born (sort of like a God) - the paths are streams of imaginary energy, and people whose will aligns with a path can draw on that energy. You play as the Trailblazer, following the Path of Trailblaze, sort of idealizing exploring and curiosity.
You get thrust straight into conflicts between paths on different planets. One of the early factions you end up helping is the Xianzhou Alliance - a collection of space-faring space stations and ships - which has wholly aligned themselves with the Path of The Hunt, they seek to destroy any followers of The Abundance. The Xianzhou initially travelled the stars, searching for the secret to immortality, which they found through Yaoshi, the Aeon of The Abundance. Horrified by it, they flocked to Lan, the Aeon of the Hunt, and now they dedicate themselves to scouring the galaxy for any followers of The Abundance and genociding them.
I feel it draws parallels from The Culture by Ian M.Banks, where a benign, effectively immortal, endlessly replicating culture ends up inadvertently erasing everything else and turning entire planets into monocultures of themselves. The Culture is "good", because it holds peace and individual freedom as core values, and it's not their fault everyone else wants to be like them, right? So one of the threads in the story is how and why the Idirans decide to fight against The Culture.
Actually, Honkai Star Rail draws from such a wide variety of the very best of all SF sources for inspiration - there's SCP stuff in there, there's echoes of Voices of Distant Star, to the point where it feels a bit generic. I guess maybe this is what an AI generated future could feel like.
posted by xdvesper at 2:05 AM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]