The Potential Power of Humid Places, or Tesla's Dream Cranks Up

July 9, 2023 6:52 PM

As the climate change proceeds there will be more water in the atmosphere, though its distribution is uneven, to say the least. Yet in those places with sufficiently humid air there may be an emerging technology that can help. It uses hygroelectricity, this is the static charge that forms on small airborne droplets of water, which in sufficient quantity might be able to power your house, with the right kind of nanowire device. At least that is what a professor at UMass Amherst and a private company in the seed round of investment both say in an article in the Guardian. They are not alone in seeing potential in this.

If the non-trivial technical issues are dealt with, then Nikola Tesla's dream of free energy for (potentially) everybody might finally be realizable, if not in his envisioned method, then in the spirit of the intention. Huzzah!

posted by Ignorantsavage (18 comments total)

Hell no.

Let's see now:
- Bold claims that this will save the world
- Proof of concept that produces microJoules
- Claims that this can scale up
- No fundamental analysis of how much energy can be extracted from turning charged humid air into less charged humid air
- No consideration of how much energy would be required to manufacture the complex nanostructured devices
- Irrelevant performance claims. (1.5 Voltes? Whoopee! Want to make 10,000 Volts? Rub a balloon on your sweater. What we want is Joules not Volts.)
- A website using the standard startup template that could have been thrown together in an afternoon

I'm a climate tech VC and this is literally scoring 7/7 on my bullshitometer.
posted by happyinmotion at 7:15 PM on July 9, 2023 [36 favorites]

Juxtaposing "power your house" with "nanowire".... no. One needs wires far thicker than nanometers to carry the kind of currents needed to "power your house".

It may be interesting for small, niche, remote, ultra-low-power applications in dark places. (It's damn hard to beat a thousand watts per square meter solar radiation.)

Sure it's tapping the same physical phenomenon that gives rise to a bolt of lightning, but unfortunately we still don't know when and where the latter is going to strike (and hence still need the plutonium I guess).
posted by heatherlogan at 7:28 PM on July 9, 2023 [2 favorites]

It still sounds more practical than fusion, though.
posted by TedW at 7:45 PM on July 9, 2023 [2 favorites]

None of these articles tell me when we extract energy what system is losing energy. Where it is coming from? Until I hear that I won't be putting much credence in it. TANSTAAFL
posted by hypnogogue at 7:48 PM on July 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

when we extract energy what system is losing energy. Where it is coming from?

Yup. This is where the technical analysis of a proposal like this should start.

There's two mechanisms proposed in the research papers.

First is extracting energy from charged droplets in humid air - some droplets carry negative charges, some positive. There's an effective current flow from one to the other leaving neutral, uncharged droplets. That's fine but the amount of actual energy is tiny.

Second seems to be starting with an ionic solid and "extracting" energy when it gets wet. That doesn't break the laws of thermodynamics but you're not going to get more energy out than is needed to create the ionic solid in the first place.

All the papers I've read on hygroelectricity are really unclear on the mechanism. That's a red flag in and of itself.
posted by happyinmotion at 8:01 PM on July 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

- Irrelevant performance claims.

sounds like it's eligible for the 45Q tax credit
posted by eustatic at 8:23 PM on July 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

First is extracting energy from charged droplets in humid air - some droplets carry negative charges, some positive. There's an effective current flow from one to the other leaving neutral, uncharged droplets. That's fine but the amount of actual energy is tiny.

I had read that proposed mechanism too, and it felt a bit Maxwell's demon-y to me.
posted by jedicus at 8:27 PM on July 9, 2023 [2 favorites]

two scientists are holding up a gym sock with a pair of lab tongs. one of them says to the other, "my god, we solved cold fusion!" the other looks at the dirty tube sock and replies, "yes, but will they believe us?"
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:02 PM on July 9, 2023

Please build this in Singapore so it can power air conditioned pathways through out the city. We would be walkable if we didn’t melt immediately on leaving the shade.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 3:03 AM on July 10, 2023

Please build this in Singapore so it can power air conditioned pathways through out the city. We would be walkable if we didn’t melt immediately on leaving the shade.

Why not build covered pathways?

My wife spent the first 28 years of her life there and lived just fine without A/C.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:54 AM on July 10, 2023

We have covered pathways everywhere, but as the world heats up, Singapore climate has steadily increased - I remember 28 degree days being common esp with monsoon, and also grew up without air conditioning, but now it’s just hot or hot and raining. Wet heat death is a serious health issue in the tropics, and while the fabled “put a glass bowl over downtown and air condition it” idea of the 80s is unlikely, there is going to be a real need for new cooling techniques for densely populated tropical areas with the energy demand involved.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 4:23 AM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'm a climate tech VC and this is literally scoring 7/7 on my bullshitometer.

But certified misunderstood genius Nikola Tesla doodled something on a napkin once, so it has to work!
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:37 AM on July 10, 2023 [2 favorites]

there is going to be a real need for new cooling techniques for densely populated tropical areas with the energy demand involved.

Air conditioning the outside world doesn't seem like an especially practical way of doing this.

Is electricity still as expensive there as it was in the 1990s? I remember being amazed by my wife's electric bill and all they had was a small (by US standards) refrigerator and washing machine, plus lights and a TV. Definitely no A/C as she wouldn't have been able to afford to run it in those days.
posted by drstrangelove at 6:15 AM on July 10, 2023

unfortunately we still don't know when and where the latter is going to strike

*whips out "Save the Clock Tower" flyer*

We do now.
posted by gauche at 6:35 AM on July 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

I had read that proposed mechanism too, and it felt a bit Maxwell's demon-y to me.

Well hello, I'll be here all week 😈
posted by Maxwell's demon at 7:13 AM on July 10, 2023 [5 favorites]

Please build this in Singapore so it can power air conditioned pathways

Do you not have sunshine in Singapore? Solar power is a mature and eminently scalable technology with massive established manufacturing capacity. If you can't build air conditioned pathways using solar electric generation, your problem is not the electricity source.
posted by heatherlogan at 7:31 AM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

Fusion is practical, TedW. Indeed fusion research even focuses upon existing practical applications!
posted by jeffburdges at 12:02 PM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

It sounds quite interesting but in reality I think we have to wait more for this becoming reality.
posted by SetMyTrip at 2:11 AM on July 11, 2023