Conferences moving out of Florida due to LGBT discrimination
July 10, 2023 1:48 AM Subscribe
As long as people continue rewarding Florida's slide into fascism with vacations and by moving there, which seemingly continues unabated, there's no reason for anything to change. And anyway, would Florida Man change what he's doing just because it's hurting the bottom line and earning him mass contempt? Or would Florida Man continue punching himself in the head out of "principle?"
posted by 1adam12 at 4:32 AM on July 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by 1adam12 at 4:32 AM on July 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
Ron DeSantis is short on ideas.
Also, short on a dais.
posted by Repack Rider at 4:34 AM on July 10, 2023 [10 favorites]
Also, short on a dais.
posted by Repack Rider at 4:34 AM on July 10, 2023 [10 favorites]
If you haven't seen Game of Thrones, it's a TV show and series of door-stopper books about medieval internecine warfare. It's strong stuff. There's rape, incest, infanticide, regicide, slavery, castration, torture, mutilation - whatever violence you can imagine, in large amounts and in gruesome detail. There are dragons too, supernatural wolves, ice zombies, shapeshifters, witchcraft. There are a lot of boobs and the occasional dong.
Fans of this show looked at Florida and thought 'too extreme for us'.
And DeSantis is going to say Game of Thrones has gone woke.
posted by adept256 at 5:02 AM on July 10, 2023 [19 favorites]
Fans of this show looked at Florida and thought 'too extreme for us'.
And DeSantis is going to say Game of Thrones has gone woke.
posted by adept256 at 5:02 AM on July 10, 2023 [19 favorites]
Bret Stevens in the NYT today:
I guess my main takeaway is that DeSantis isn’t going to be the next president. He makes Trump seem tolerant, Ted Cruz seem likable, Mitch McConnell seem moderate, Lauren Boebert seem mature and Rick Santorum seem cool.
posted by MtDewd at 5:27 AM on July 10, 2023 [33 favorites]
I guess my main takeaway is that DeSantis isn’t going to be the next president. He makes Trump seem tolerant, Ted Cruz seem likable, Mitch McConnell seem moderate, Lauren Boebert seem mature and Rick Santorum seem cool.
posted by MtDewd at 5:27 AM on July 10, 2023 [33 favorites]
The head of my company recently said he's thinking about getting everyone together in person soon and I almost immediately said on Slack basically "if this happens who can I talk to about where it's hosted, if this happens in Texas or Florida I can't go and there are a lot of other places that are similarly unsafe" and many of the the other trans people were like "that was my first thought too" and someone posted a map from Erin Reed (an older version of this one) saying they weren't willing to go anywhere with moderate or higher risk which seems very reasonable to me. That said, I know there are plenty of queer and trans people living in these places and unfortunately nowhere is safe, not even the very blue county where I live (there have been incidents such as Proud Boys attacking a drag queen story hour and so on). It is really scary out there.
posted by an octopus IRL at 5:39 AM on July 10, 2023 [43 favorites]
posted by an octopus IRL at 5:39 AM on July 10, 2023 [43 favorites]
I'm organizing a conference right now. I live in Texas. It didn't even cross my mind to host it in Texas (or Florida, for that matter).
posted by adamrice at 6:13 AM on July 10, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by adamrice at 6:13 AM on July 10, 2023 [17 favorites]
The National Education Association just had its Representatives Assembly in Orlando. (I’m an NEA member but didn’t go.) As a former Florida teacher I generally think the state should be boycotted and I probably wouldn’t have felt personally comfortable attending based on my presentation (literally “blue hair and pronouns”), but I’m glad the NEA didn’t move the conference… they moved forward with it as a show of solidarity to Florida teachers who are in a dire situation right now.
posted by donatella at 6:26 AM on July 10, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by donatella at 6:26 AM on July 10, 2023 [9 favorites]
The National Education Association just had its Representatives Assembly in Orlando.
Where they voted on a resolution to not have future events in Florida (and possibly some other heavily unfriendly states), but it was not approved, probably because so many people didn't feel comfortable going to Florida and therefore weren't able to vote.
posted by Etrigan at 6:32 AM on July 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
Where they voted on a resolution to not have future events in Florida (and possibly some other heavily unfriendly states), but it was not approved, probably because so many people didn't feel comfortable going to Florida and therefore weren't able to vote.
posted by Etrigan at 6:32 AM on July 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
My parents live in Florida, and keep asking when I'll be coming down to visit. I'm cis het (boom bah), but still don't want to spend any time or money there.
posted by cheshyre at 6:38 AM on July 10, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by cheshyre at 6:38 AM on July 10, 2023 [19 favorites]
John lewis knew what would happen if he went through the door that says 'whites only' and he called it good trouble. Have the cameras ready so people can see it.
John had his skull cracked. Twice, I believe. Brave fellow. He wasn't willing to cede territory without challenge, to just avoid those places and let them be. It would never end that way, so he went in knowing what was going to happen. He wanted to show people what would happen. Like Emmett Till's mother insisting on an open casket, the picture of her mutilated son being published. Look at this and decide if you can accept it or not.
This kind of protest can co-exist with a boycott. The irony is that they want a safe space, a safe space to be hateful bigots. So we can boycott it, and they won't have nice things in the hate space. But we can also violate it, challenge it, go in there and make them show who they are for all to see.
All that said, John Lewis had extraordinary courage. I can't hold anybody to that standard, it's more than most of us can do.
posted by adept256 at 6:58 AM on July 10, 2023 [15 favorites]
John had his skull cracked. Twice, I believe. Brave fellow. He wasn't willing to cede territory without challenge, to just avoid those places and let them be. It would never end that way, so he went in knowing what was going to happen. He wanted to show people what would happen. Like Emmett Till's mother insisting on an open casket, the picture of her mutilated son being published. Look at this and decide if you can accept it or not.
This kind of protest can co-exist with a boycott. The irony is that they want a safe space, a safe space to be hateful bigots. So we can boycott it, and they won't have nice things in the hate space. But we can also violate it, challenge it, go in there and make them show who they are for all to see.
All that said, John Lewis had extraordinary courage. I can't hold anybody to that standard, it's more than most of us can do.
posted by adept256 at 6:58 AM on July 10, 2023 [15 favorites]
Tourism’s currently also taking a beating in Florida. And that’s pretty much the tax base down there. So hopefully that invisible hand of the market Republicans love so much will strangle Desantis.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 7:09 AM on July 10, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 7:09 AM on July 10, 2023 [16 favorites]
bret stephens also goes on a short tirade against trans people in that nytimes link, and his conversational partner gail makes a small quip and changes the subject right after, so let's just put that warning there.
posted by i used to be someone else at 7:28 AM on July 10, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by i used to be someone else at 7:28 AM on July 10, 2023 [22 favorites]
The Mathematical Association of America is one of the major academic math groups in the US & Canada, and their big national meeting (with thousands of attendees) is next month in Florida. They are aware of the issue, and in fact devoted much of their latest magazine to discussions both pro and con.
These decisions on where to hold national meetings are made years in advance, and it would cost a huge amount of money to back out. And, there's the argument that Florida has a diversity of people, not all of whom support DeSantis.
But still. The Jim Crow South is in living memory, and people are with us today who were turned away from academic meetings held in whites-only hotels. Some professional organizations have apologized for those actions; the American Math Society specifically mentions its regret for:
posted by math at 7:48 AM on July 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
These decisions on where to hold national meetings are made years in advance, and it would cost a huge amount of money to back out. And, there's the argument that Florida has a diversity of people, not all of whom support DeSantis.
But still. The Jim Crow South is in living memory, and people are with us today who were turned away from academic meetings held in whites-only hotels. Some professional organizations have apologized for those actions; the American Math Society specifically mentions its regret for:
The exclusion of Black mathematicians from meetings, social functions, and lodging at AMS meetings prior to 1960, and the listing of ‘colored’ facilities in AMS Notices, even after the AMS had already pledged non-discrimination in its activities.There will come a time, I believe, when the MAA will also apologize for its decision. There will come a time, I hope, when we will look back in disgust at the 2020's legacy of hatred and discrimination against LGTBQ+ people, the same way we do now at the racism and discrimination of the 1950's and 60's. We seemed doomed to repeat the history we know all too well.
posted by math at 7:48 AM on July 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
Sometimes I struggle with where to draw the line, because I think if I knew everything about every business I patronize and location I visit, there'd be very few places I truly feel comfortable giving my money and implicit endorsement. But places like Florida and Texas are pretty easy calls. (Also easy for me because I don't travel, but whatever.)
Come to Illinois (northern half) if you can. Our government isn't trying to kill you.
posted by obfuscation at 7:50 AM on July 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
Come to Illinois (northern half) if you can. Our government isn't trying to kill you.
posted by obfuscation at 7:50 AM on July 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
I know of an academic conference through my professional work that is absorbing significant hotel cancellation fees (at a huge hit to their financial stability) to move their October conference from Miami. The pressure from member institutions/attendees was just too great to move forward with a conference in Florida.
My own organization was scheduled to host our conference in Miami in 2026, but the conference hotel has had construction delays and won't be ready in time, so we'll be moving the location regardless of the legal and political discrimination situation there.
Moving conferences that are already scheduled is a big deal; orgs plan them years in advance and once contracts are signed, you're on the hook for significant fees regardless of the reason. So if conferences are being cancelled that is saying a LOT.
posted by misskaz at 7:51 AM on July 10, 2023 [25 favorites]
My own organization was scheduled to host our conference in Miami in 2026, but the conference hotel has had construction delays and won't be ready in time, so we'll be moving the location regardless of the legal and political discrimination situation there.
Moving conferences that are already scheduled is a big deal; orgs plan them years in advance and once contracts are signed, you're on the hook for significant fees regardless of the reason. So if conferences are being cancelled that is saying a LOT.
posted by misskaz at 7:51 AM on July 10, 2023 [25 favorites]
It's not just that conferences and conventions are planned years in advance, it's that many of them sometimes have multi-year contracts.
for instance, when Indiana had that dumb law Pence supported re: gays, GenCon was locked into a long-term one and it would have wrecked their finances to move, and they were talking about it; BGGCon likely won't ever leave Dallas because it's where it's always been held.
tfcon is still in florida and has gotten itself in a bit of a terrible dilemma because they initially said that due to fl law, if you were participating in the cosplay contest, your transformers character would have to be of the same gender as your birth sex
y'know, the robots in disguise. the ones that didn't have a gender because they're ALIEN ROBOTS until they came to earth and i guess got infected with some kind of gender ideology i guess? the ones that didn't even have boy or girl ones until they decided to sell some more toys and made the girl ones thinner, smaller, and have some kind of protrusions on the chest because transformers also have some kind of mammary glands, i guess?
posted by i used to be someone else at 7:58 AM on July 10, 2023 [15 favorites]
for instance, when Indiana had that dumb law Pence supported re: gays, GenCon was locked into a long-term one and it would have wrecked their finances to move, and they were talking about it; BGGCon likely won't ever leave Dallas because it's where it's always been held.
tfcon is still in florida and has gotten itself in a bit of a terrible dilemma because they initially said that due to fl law, if you were participating in the cosplay contest, your transformers character would have to be of the same gender as your birth sex
y'know, the robots in disguise. the ones that didn't have a gender because they're ALIEN ROBOTS until they came to earth and i guess got infected with some kind of gender ideology i guess? the ones that didn't even have boy or girl ones until they decided to sell some more toys and made the girl ones thinner, smaller, and have some kind of protrusions on the chest because transformers also have some kind of mammary glands, i guess?
posted by i used to be someone else at 7:58 AM on July 10, 2023 [15 favorites]
Go anti-woke, go broke - isn't that the saying?
posted by rednikki at 7:59 AM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rednikki at 7:59 AM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
go fash lose cash
posted by i used to be someone else at 8:00 AM on July 10, 2023 [39 favorites]
posted by i used to be someone else at 8:00 AM on July 10, 2023 [39 favorites]
This kind of pressure did indeed cause dimwit governor Mike Pence to water down his so-called "religious freedom" discrimination bill. I don't know if GenCon really would have left Indianapolis, but they were definitely threatening to. And big companies like Eli Lilly noted that laws like that make it harder to recruit sought-after top talent.
As a result he had both the left and the right angry with him, and was likely on track to lose his re-election bid by the time Trump picked Pence as his running mate.
posted by Gelatin at 8:03 AM on July 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
As a result he had both the left and the right angry with him, and was likely on track to lose his re-election bid by the time Trump picked Pence as his running mate.
posted by Gelatin at 8:03 AM on July 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Librarians are dealing with IFLA's annual conference being hosted in Dubai in 2024. The LGBTQ+ caucus has already said they won't go, and several other caucuses are yelling at IFLA about it. What is presently known of internal deliberations at IFLA is... "sketchy" would be a kindness.
I hope the yellers prevail.
posted by humbug at 8:03 AM on July 10, 2023 [13 favorites]
I hope the yellers prevail.
posted by humbug at 8:03 AM on July 10, 2023 [13 favorites]
(I hesitate to say any of this because I might turn out to be wrong, but what the hell:)
I thought 'Ron DeSantis is too extremely online to be president' takes were kind of hacky, and I might still think that, but he just keeps doing things like the Twitter campaign announcement and the LGBTQ ad.
The Republican presidential primary is more important to him than being governor, and it's causing him to make choices (Disney, education, EVs...) that are bad for his state.
He's running like, if he wins the primary, he won't have to win the general. Which would be terrifying, if he were some kind of political genius, but, fortunately, he seems like kind of an idiot. He's trying to run to the right of Trump, which a)will make it impossible to win in the general, and b)is a position that doesn't exist, because MAGA isn't a coherent set of political principles, it's a personality cult.
DeSantis is 44 years old and term-limited from running for governor of Florida in 2026. Running for the Senate would be a step backward, and it's not like Rick Scott or Marco Rubio are going to just hand their seats to him. Unless a series of very unlikely things happen, he's not going to be the 2024 Republican presidential nominee. There's a decent chance that we are watching the end of his career in elected office.
posted by box at 8:16 AM on July 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
I thought 'Ron DeSantis is too extremely online to be president' takes were kind of hacky, and I might still think that, but he just keeps doing things like the Twitter campaign announcement and the LGBTQ ad.
The Republican presidential primary is more important to him than being governor, and it's causing him to make choices (Disney, education, EVs...) that are bad for his state.
He's running like, if he wins the primary, he won't have to win the general. Which would be terrifying, if he were some kind of political genius, but, fortunately, he seems like kind of an idiot. He's trying to run to the right of Trump, which a)will make it impossible to win in the general, and b)is a position that doesn't exist, because MAGA isn't a coherent set of political principles, it's a personality cult.
DeSantis is 44 years old and term-limited from running for governor of Florida in 2026. Running for the Senate would be a step backward, and it's not like Rick Scott or Marco Rubio are going to just hand their seats to him. Unless a series of very unlikely things happen, he's not going to be the 2024 Republican presidential nominee. There's a decent chance that we are watching the end of his career in elected office.
posted by box at 8:16 AM on July 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
Also noting the very real danger to pregnant people (and people who may become pregnant) in states limiting reproductive care. I've had several tense discussions with colleagues and others about sending staff to meetings in states where they might experience an emergency and be denied care. It's incredibly difficult to balance support for people in states like these who can't leave with safety and equity for those who are in relatively safe states (for now at least).
posted by Il etait une fois at 8:17 AM on July 10, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by Il etait une fois at 8:17 AM on July 10, 2023 [20 favorites]
As a couple of people have noted, yes, not all Floridians (I'm one) and the people who work in the tourism/hospitality sector around Orlando are incredibly exploited already -- low wages, no affordable housing, Medicaid gutted and unavailable -- and may bear the brunt of cancellations via reduced shifts or outright layoffs.
That said, I agree with the principle of sending DeSantis and his cronies and tourism industry donors and voters an expensive message, one that may make them rethink their support of culture warriors in general, beyond DeSantis. I recognize that's easy for me to say, and I do feel guilty about it. We see our trans and gay friends quite literally afraid for their futures, but our family is cis/het and fortunate enough that we can avoid most of what's happening here. We'll be able to leave here in a year; sympathies to the christopher hundreds and those less lucky or privileged.
posted by martin q blank at 8:47 AM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
That said, I agree with the principle of sending DeSantis and his cronies and tourism industry donors and voters an expensive message, one that may make them rethink their support of culture warriors in general, beyond DeSantis. I recognize that's easy for me to say, and I do feel guilty about it. We see our trans and gay friends quite literally afraid for their futures, but our family is cis/het and fortunate enough that we can avoid most of what's happening here. We'll be able to leave here in a year; sympathies to the christopher hundreds and those less lucky or privileged.
posted by martin q blank at 8:47 AM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
One of my favorite labor writers, who's also a native Floridian, just wrote a good piece that complements this: Fascist Economics Don't Work.
posted by heteronym at 8:53 AM on July 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by heteronym at 8:53 AM on July 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
This is somewhat tangent, but a Hugo nominee has withdrawn from consideration because Worldcon is being held in China this year.
posted by adamrice at 8:54 AM on July 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by adamrice at 8:54 AM on July 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
Grace Hopper 2023, probably the biggest annual gathering of women in computer science, is in Orlando this year. It's so gross. Frankly, I've worked on teams where there were more trans women than cis women. It's absolutely fucking nonsense to try and have an event for women in computing in a state where trans people aren't welcome.
GHC usually sells out in minutes and it probably still will. But I won't be going this year and I probably won't ever go again.
posted by potrzebie at 9:01 AM on July 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
GHC usually sells out in minutes and it probably still will. But I won't be going this year and I probably won't ever go again.
posted by potrzebie at 9:01 AM on July 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
I went and looked into it potrzebie, and it seems like Grace Hopper is aware of this issue and won't be doing it in Florida going forward:
For the past 26 years, AnitaB.org has worked to connect, inspire, and advance women and non-binary technologists to reach their highest potential. At the heart of our efforts is Grace Hopper Celebration (GHC), a global gathering that brings together thousands of tech professionals to learn, network, celebrate their achievements, and thrive.posted by foxfirefey at 9:32 AM on July 10, 2023 [17 favorites]
Despite the warm welcome GHC and its 25,000 attendees have received from Orlando over the past five years, recent actions by the Florida Legislature and Governor are inflicting harms that override the goodwill of local communities and impose harsh state-mandated restrictions that challenge our mission and hurt our Members. Therefore, Grace Hopper Celebration 2023 will conclude our investment in Florida, and we will not return until this legislation is overturned and the state becomes more welcoming to all.
The Florida State Legislature has demonstrated they intend to erase the identities and dignities of people from historically marginalized and excluded groups, including Black, Brown, LGBTQIA+, and Indigenous people. Recent legislation also restricts access to reproductive healthcare [Learn more – Article, Bill], overturns gun safety laws [Learn more – Article, Bill], promotes racial prejudice [Learn more – Article, Bill], and censors educators [Learn more – Article, Bill].
To combat this regressive legislation and ensure our final Celebration in Florida mitigates the challenges created by state elected leaders, we intend on working with organizations including Equality Florida, NAACP, and Florida Immigrant Coalition. We will support their efforts on the ground in Florida, and we encourage others to do so as well.
For Grace Hopper Celebration 2023, we’re including additional security measures and working with Orlando city leaders and partners to create a gender-affirming, successful event. As GHC leaves the state, AnitaB.org will be doubling support for the AnitaB.org local Florida community. While we are leaving Florida after this year’s event, we are not abandoning the cause. We will use our platform and our voice to elevate the message that we stand up for all our Members, and that dignity, respect, and equal protection are values that we will always seek to uphold.
Since its inception, Grace Hopper Celebration has always been about community,” said Brenda Darden Wilkerson, President and CEO of AnitaB.org. “That community is made up of people from different backgrounds, ethnicities, career levels, age groups, physical abilities, identities, and many more. We at AnitaB.org are very proud of our diversity because that diversity is our strength. We owe it to our community…to those women and non-binary technologists…to be vigilant.
We call on you to stand together with those doing the daily work on the ground in Florida. Come and connect with others from around the world who share our values and commitment to inclusion, equity, and innovation. For further questions, please contact ghc@anitab.org.
DeSantis is 44 years old and term-limited from running for governor of Florida in 2026.
This is a fact, and it's a state constitutional issue, not a law. Florida state officials were prohibited from running for another office without resigning their seats until Desantis wanted to do it. It was changed by the rubberstamp legislature to permit running for president. It would take too long to amend the constitution for it to help old Ron avoid a term limit.
The term-limit is not eternal, however. Following a 1-term break he could run for governor again. I could very well see him attempting a Putin-like term as, say, attorney general, with a stooge governor ready to stand down in time for Desantis to have a refreshed opportunity at 8 more years. He could also be setting himself up for right-wing-TV wealth, too. He had an official day of morning for Rush Limbaugh, he knows that angle as well as anyone.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 9:42 AM on July 10, 2023
This is a fact, and it's a state constitutional issue, not a law. Florida state officials were prohibited from running for another office without resigning their seats until Desantis wanted to do it. It was changed by the rubberstamp legislature to permit running for president. It would take too long to amend the constitution for it to help old Ron avoid a term limit.
The term-limit is not eternal, however. Following a 1-term break he could run for governor again. I could very well see him attempting a Putin-like term as, say, attorney general, with a stooge governor ready to stand down in time for Desantis to have a refreshed opportunity at 8 more years. He could also be setting himself up for right-wing-TV wealth, too. He had an official day of morning for Rush Limbaugh, he knows that angle as well as anyone.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 9:42 AM on July 10, 2023
It's also weird because conferences are in big trouble right now with attendance. They still haven't recovered from COVID.
The large annual Craft Brewers Conference was just held in Nashville earlier this year and there was a large outcry from the LGBTQ+ members of the org about holding it in that city. I wish the organizers had put out a response to acknowledge the issues at hand, but instead they mealy mouthed it with a wish washy statement because they didn't want to offend the more conservative members of the org. (and really, except for a few folks, everyone understands that shows are planned out years in advance, but you can still say and do something.
I honestly hope this keeps hurting Florida. When I grew up there, it had issues, but it wasn't like this frothing scrum of inchoate proto-fascism. My mom is still a teacher there and just went through the whole exercise of cataloging all of her media. If she could afford it, I'd move her to Palm Springs and let her relax there away from these assholes.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:45 AM on July 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
The large annual Craft Brewers Conference was just held in Nashville earlier this year and there was a large outcry from the LGBTQ+ members of the org about holding it in that city. I wish the organizers had put out a response to acknowledge the issues at hand, but instead they mealy mouthed it with a wish washy statement because they didn't want to offend the more conservative members of the org. (and really, except for a few folks, everyone understands that shows are planned out years in advance, but you can still say and do something.
I honestly hope this keeps hurting Florida. When I grew up there, it had issues, but it wasn't like this frothing scrum of inchoate proto-fascism. My mom is still a teacher there and just went through the whole exercise of cataloging all of her media. If she could afford it, I'd move her to Palm Springs and let her relax there away from these assholes.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:45 AM on July 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
Third-order thought: “do we have to move the con[vention|ference] for civil rights reasons?” is overdetermined because conferences are drawn to places with a lot of cheap labor.
posted by clew at 9:49 AM on July 10, 2023
posted by clew at 9:49 AM on July 10, 2023
Mod note: One comment removed. Please do not use "Karen" as a pejorative term. It is very sexist and insensitive.
posted by loup (staff) at 10:33 AM on July 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by loup (staff) at 10:33 AM on July 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
These cancellations are already having a measurable impact on Florida's tax revenue.
posted by overglow at 11:37 AM on July 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by overglow at 11:37 AM on July 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
I honestly hope this keeps hurting Florida. When I grew up there, it had issues, but it wasn't like this frothing scrum of inchoate proto-fascism.
Hard same. I feel bad for my friends and family who still live there. But also, part of me is like: What's it gonna take to get you guys out of there?
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 11:43 AM on July 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
Hard same. I feel bad for my friends and family who still live there. But also, part of me is like: What's it gonna take to get you guys out of there?
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 11:43 AM on July 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
Being term limited is a failure of imagination. There's nothing preventing Casey DeSantis from running for Governor, and Ron taking over after her, other than the fact that she's more popular, and the people might decide to stay with her. (It's been done before in both Alabama and Texas.)
posted by Spike Glee at 11:54 AM on July 10, 2023
posted by Spike Glee at 11:54 AM on July 10, 2023
I feel bad for my friends and family who still live there. But also, part of me is like: What's it gonna take to get you guys out of there?My mom wants to leave, but there's something to be said about moving in your mid-70's.
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:53 PM on July 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
The way things are going now, we won't get to watch my wife's bird go up when it's ready about a decade from now.
I'm glad I got to see the Atlantis and Apollo exhibits a few years ago, when the previous one flew.
posted by tigrrrlily at 1:48 PM on July 10, 2023
I'm glad I got to see the Atlantis and Apollo exhibits a few years ago, when the previous one flew.
posted by tigrrrlily at 1:48 PM on July 10, 2023
Thinking of this as a matter of principle betrays a lot of privilege. Events need to move not in order to hurt Florida, but because some of us can't go there. Those events that it would take a lot of money to move? We can't attend them. Even the airport bathrooms are off-limits, never mind some kind of other law enforcement encounter.
posted by tigrrrlily at 2:02 PM on July 10, 2023 [27 favorites]
posted by tigrrrlily at 2:02 PM on July 10, 2023 [27 favorites]
i'd like to underscore this. conferences and conventions are huge opportunities for cross-pollenization and networking and holding them in regions that exclude people basically excludes them from those opportunities.
losing out on those opportunities has a ripple effect on future ones, too.
posted by i used to be someone else at 2:07 PM on July 10, 2023 [9 favorites]
losing out on those opportunities has a ripple effect on future ones, too.
posted by i used to be someone else at 2:07 PM on July 10, 2023 [9 favorites]
I hoped to go back to Florida someday, but I'm banning it now. A friend of mine who went there several times a year to visit her sister refuses to go now, even though she will probably never see the sister again. We're both straight and unlikely to get pregnant and we still don't wanna go. I think it's great that people are starting to ban Florida and Texas travel.
On a bad note, I found out someone I know (straight) is moving to Texas. I'm glad I had a mask on so she couldn't see my whole reaction, but what she saw was probably bad enough. Even she winced, but was clearly trying to Look On The Bright Side. I don't know why and was afraid to ask--she's gotten engaged, maybe the guy got a job there, I dunno--but good god, I can't imagine moving there now. I don't think she's gonna like it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:26 PM on July 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
On a bad note, I found out someone I know (straight) is moving to Texas. I'm glad I had a mask on so she couldn't see my whole reaction, but what she saw was probably bad enough. Even she winced, but was clearly trying to Look On The Bright Side. I don't know why and was afraid to ask--she's gotten engaged, maybe the guy got a job there, I dunno--but good god, I can't imagine moving there now. I don't think she's gonna like it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:26 PM on July 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
Please also realize that some of us queer and trans folk who live in Florida can't afford to leave.
I'm disabled, own my small old house. Its fair value is maybe 40 grand, which won't even buy me a used trailer, much less land elsewhere to put it on, and I cannot afford monthly rent - I barely scrape by as it is.
Remember that even able bodied queer and trans folks often face real barriers to well paying jobs.
Sometimes the unrecognized economic privilege of many users here is breathtaking to me.
posted by Vigilant at 5:05 PM on July 10, 2023 [14 favorites]
I'm disabled, own my small old house. Its fair value is maybe 40 grand, which won't even buy me a used trailer, much less land elsewhere to put it on, and I cannot afford monthly rent - I barely scrape by as it is.
Remember that even able bodied queer and trans folks often face real barriers to well paying jobs.
Sometimes the unrecognized economic privilege of many users here is breathtaking to me.
posted by Vigilant at 5:05 PM on July 10, 2023 [14 favorites]
I mean the context is conferences... Exploitative and not aimed at the local populace, by and large.
posted by tigrrrlily at 6:30 PM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by tigrrrlily at 6:30 PM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Perhaps the people literally asking and favoriting “What's it gonna take to get you guys out of there?” need to remember that context as well.
posted by Etrigan at 6:53 PM on July 10, 2023
posted by Etrigan at 6:53 PM on July 10, 2023
Perhaps the people literally asking and favoriting “What's it gonna take to get you guys out of there?” need to remember that context as well.
Perhaps we're well aware of it.
Speaking for myself (since I'm the one being quoted) I thought it was clear that I was speaking of particular people I know. And some of them definitely do have the means to leave. One of them is gay. Both that person and their partner are attorneys in private practice (i.e., not working for civil rights orgs or anything). They have the resources to travel frequently out of the state, and out of the country. Maybe that allows them to feel somewhat detached from it all. I wish them nothing but the best, but still wonder why they stay.
My mom wants to leave, but there's something to be said about moving in your mid-70's.
True, and I certainly feel for those who can't leave, or who would have great difficulty in doing so. I have friends who might have the means to relocate themselves and their kids... but they also have elderly parents in the state who have no intention of leaving.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:20 PM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Perhaps we're well aware of it.
Speaking for myself (since I'm the one being quoted) I thought it was clear that I was speaking of particular people I know. And some of them definitely do have the means to leave. One of them is gay. Both that person and their partner are attorneys in private practice (i.e., not working for civil rights orgs or anything). They have the resources to travel frequently out of the state, and out of the country. Maybe that allows them to feel somewhat detached from it all. I wish them nothing but the best, but still wonder why they stay.
My mom wants to leave, but there's something to be said about moving in your mid-70's.
True, and I certainly feel for those who can't leave, or who would have great difficulty in doing so. I have friends who might have the means to relocate themselves and their kids... but they also have elderly parents in the state who have no intention of leaving.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:20 PM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
As a Florida resident I am 100% on board with conference and tourism boycotts. But to say "if you live here you should just leave"... well. It's complicated. My family probably could move, but (leaving aside the immense financial and practical difficulties it would cause us) it would mean uprooting an elderly person with dementia who's settled into an assisted living environment, and uprooting a young autistic adult who's settled into academic and social situations that he needs.
Also, if everybody who doesn't support DeSantis and his insanity just moves away, who's left to vote against him and his ilk? There are still plenty of battles to fight on the local level here. A lot of these policies are practically enforced at the county and municipal level, where there's still a chance to have some influence. If we go, who's left to show up at school board meetings to protest book bans, and help get people necessary health care, and try to keep the place from turning even more into an unmitigated hellspace? Are we supposed to abandon our LGBTQ friends who can't leave just so we can feel righteous? Not to mention, where would we go? These fundamental human rights are under attack everywhere in the US, it's not like we could move to California and say "phew, everything's all right now." And we can't leave the US, no place else would take us.
Florida wasn't like this when we moved here 10 years ago. Florida Republicans were never good people, but they were mostly kind of pragmatic, on the side of whatever the big money wanted - the idea of a Florida governor going against Disney or Big Agriculture would have been unthinkable. DeSantis won his first election by a tiny margin - around 10,000 votes. The second one he won by a landslide. Something big tipped in between, and I think it was the combination of MAGA politics and the pandemic encouraging a mass influx of "deplorables". More than 1,000 people a day are moving to Florida, and at this point I think the ones who are coming are coming because of the radical right politics, not despite them.
posted by Daily Alice at 4:07 AM on July 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
Also, if everybody who doesn't support DeSantis and his insanity just moves away, who's left to vote against him and his ilk? There are still plenty of battles to fight on the local level here. A lot of these policies are practically enforced at the county and municipal level, where there's still a chance to have some influence. If we go, who's left to show up at school board meetings to protest book bans, and help get people necessary health care, and try to keep the place from turning even more into an unmitigated hellspace? Are we supposed to abandon our LGBTQ friends who can't leave just so we can feel righteous? Not to mention, where would we go? These fundamental human rights are under attack everywhere in the US, it's not like we could move to California and say "phew, everything's all right now." And we can't leave the US, no place else would take us.
Florida wasn't like this when we moved here 10 years ago. Florida Republicans were never good people, but they were mostly kind of pragmatic, on the side of whatever the big money wanted - the idea of a Florida governor going against Disney or Big Agriculture would have been unthinkable. DeSantis won his first election by a tiny margin - around 10,000 votes. The second one he won by a landslide. Something big tipped in between, and I think it was the combination of MAGA politics and the pandemic encouraging a mass influx of "deplorables". More than 1,000 people a day are moving to Florida, and at this point I think the ones who are coming are coming because of the radical right politics, not despite them.
posted by Daily Alice at 4:07 AM on July 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
There are still plenty of battles to fight on the local level here. A lot of these policies are practically enforced at the county and municipal level, where there's still a chance to have some influence. If we go, who's left to show up at school board meetings to protest book bans, and help get people necessary health care, and try to keep the place from turning even more into an unmitigated hellspace?
As someone whose birth family still resides in Florida, this is the part that wrenches me every day. While on a reflexive level I do wonder what it would take to get them to leave, I recognize there are complicating factors, and even more it KILLS me to see them living there and not doing anything to push back against the ongoing horror show. They have close LGBTQ relatives they support in sentiment if not in action (me and my wife), they have a preteen daughter in public school there, they have property that is likely to be literally underwater within the not-too-distant future ... yet they sit there and tut tut about those awful republicans and angrily remind me #NotAllFloridians when I point out that even if my life fell to absolute pieces I could not retreat home, could not live anywhere near my birth family ... and never once have they gone to a school board meeting, contacted local representatives, donated to groups trying to provide shelter against hate and ignorance and violence, attended meetings of such groups, even risked "rocking the boat" to push back against hateful rhetoric of their friends and neighbors ...
I need to stop here because I'm winding myself up terribly, but it is absolutely excruciating and bewildering to witness the inaction. It's like the danger to themselves is still so abstract that they don't believe in it, and until such time they enjoy the benefits of living on the beach in a relatively lower-cost area without taking responsibility whatsoever to preserve what they love about the damn state.
My family, at least, are living there and disapprove of its politics, but are doing nothing to try and keep the place from turning even more into an unmitigated hellspace. It truly hurts to witness the inaction of people you deeply love and need in your life.
posted by DingoMutt at 8:03 AM on July 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
As someone whose birth family still resides in Florida, this is the part that wrenches me every day. While on a reflexive level I do wonder what it would take to get them to leave, I recognize there are complicating factors, and even more it KILLS me to see them living there and not doing anything to push back against the ongoing horror show. They have close LGBTQ relatives they support in sentiment if not in action (me and my wife), they have a preteen daughter in public school there, they have property that is likely to be literally underwater within the not-too-distant future ... yet they sit there and tut tut about those awful republicans and angrily remind me #NotAllFloridians when I point out that even if my life fell to absolute pieces I could not retreat home, could not live anywhere near my birth family ... and never once have they gone to a school board meeting, contacted local representatives, donated to groups trying to provide shelter against hate and ignorance and violence, attended meetings of such groups, even risked "rocking the boat" to push back against hateful rhetoric of their friends and neighbors ...
I need to stop here because I'm winding myself up terribly, but it is absolutely excruciating and bewildering to witness the inaction. It's like the danger to themselves is still so abstract that they don't believe in it, and until such time they enjoy the benefits of living on the beach in a relatively lower-cost area without taking responsibility whatsoever to preserve what they love about the damn state.
My family, at least, are living there and disapprove of its politics, but are doing nothing to try and keep the place from turning even more into an unmitigated hellspace. It truly hurts to witness the inaction of people you deeply love and need in your life.
posted by DingoMutt at 8:03 AM on July 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
My parents live in Florida, and keep asking when I'll be coming down to visit. I'm cis het (boom bah), but still don't want to spend any time or money there.
We succeeded in changing some close friends' intent to retire there with this same message. If I have any control over it whatsoever, I'll never set foot or spend even part of a dollar there.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 9:26 AM on July 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
We succeeded in changing some close friends' intent to retire there with this same message. If I have any control over it whatsoever, I'll never set foot or spend even part of a dollar there.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 9:26 AM on July 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I honestly hope this keeps hurting Florida.
The long planning cycle that is making it budgetarily difficult to move conferences out of Florida today will make it just as hard to move them back if things were to change. Harder really because things that make Florida attractive as a conference destination aren't anywhere near as compelling as the actual physical risk of travelling there. People don't like change but once change is forced on them they rapidly reset to a new normal.
I've been boycotting non essential travel to the US for years now because what with the gun violence etc. it is significantly riskier to cross the boarder than it is to travel within Canada. DeSantis' actions don't even much target me personally but there is no way I'm traveling to Florida or many other states while these policies are in place.
posted by Mitheral at 9:07 PM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
The long planning cycle that is making it budgetarily difficult to move conferences out of Florida today will make it just as hard to move them back if things were to change. Harder really because things that make Florida attractive as a conference destination aren't anywhere near as compelling as the actual physical risk of travelling there. People don't like change but once change is forced on them they rapidly reset to a new normal.
I've been boycotting non essential travel to the US for years now because what with the gun violence etc. it is significantly riskier to cross the boarder than it is to travel within Canada. DeSantis' actions don't even much target me personally but there is no way I'm traveling to Florida or many other states while these policies are in place.
posted by Mitheral at 9:07 PM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
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posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:02 AM on July 10, 2023 [46 favorites]