Houston's heat wave: ‘I Don’t Want to Be Here Anymore’
July 28, 2023 3:58 PM Subscribe
Houstonians pride themselves on how they tolerate heat. This summer, the heat has become intolerable. (ghostarchive.org)
Seems like every few months I run across a news article about people moving to supposedly climate-safe places in the US and changing the character of the place. The reporting generally has this "isn't-this-quirky" tone, suggesting that climate-driven migration within the US is still just for a few oddballs.
Numbers seem to bear out that viewpoint, with the Southwest and Florida still growing at [to me] jaw-dropping rates.
How long before climate-driven migration starts really shifting the US population around?
posted by gurple at 4:13 PM on July 28, 2023 [24 favorites]
Numbers seem to bear out that viewpoint, with the Southwest and Florida still growing at [to me] jaw-dropping rates.
How long before climate-driven migration starts really shifting the US population around?
posted by gurple at 4:13 PM on July 28, 2023 [24 favorites]
Things this WSJ article unsurprisingly does not mention, though it does mention a "shortage of skilled workers" and quotes a real estate agent and business owners:
The Texas Tribune article also points out that there is currently no OSHA national standard for prevention of heat-related injury and death. Seems like a clear oversight, given climate change.
Anyway, I know the WSJ is gonna WSJ but these omissions seemed absolutely egregious to me. Workers die from heat like this, and the WSJ article doesn't mention it at all.
posted by yasaman at 4:15 PM on July 28, 2023 [54 favorites]
Texas is the state where the most workers die from high temperatures, government data shows. At least 42 workers died in Texas between 2011 and 2021 from environmental heat exposure, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Workers’ unions claim this data doesn’t fully reflect the magnitude of the problem because heat-related deaths are often recorded under a different primary cause of injury.Also:
In a week when parts of the state are getting triple-digit temperatures and weather officials urge Texans to stay cool and hydrated, Gov. Greg Abbott gave final approval to a law that will eliminate local rules mandating water breaks for construction workers.Quotes from the Texas Tribune.
House Bill 2127 was passed by the Texas Legislature during this year’s regular legislative session. Abbott signed it Tuesday. It will go into effect on Sept. 1.
Supporters of the law have said it will eliminate a patchwork of local ordinances across the state that bog down businesses. The law’s scope is broad but ordinances that establish minimum breaks in the workplace are one of the explicit targets. The law will nullify ordinances enacted by Austin in 2010 and Dallas in 2015 that established 10-minute breaks every four hours so that construction workers can drink water and protect themselves from the sun. It also prevents other cities from passing such rules in the future. San Antonio has been considering a similar ordinance.
The Texas Tribune article also points out that there is currently no OSHA national standard for prevention of heat-related injury and death. Seems like a clear oversight, given climate change.
Anyway, I know the WSJ is gonna WSJ but these omissions seemed absolutely egregious to me. Workers die from heat like this, and the WSJ article doesn't mention it at all.
posted by yasaman at 4:15 PM on July 28, 2023 [54 favorites]
Here in Iceland me and my family have run into a few tourists from Houston who just impulse bought a holiday to “somewhere cold”. Iceland’s centuries old counter-programming marketing strategy is finally paying off.
posted by Kattullus at 4:16 PM on July 28, 2023 [61 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 4:16 PM on July 28, 2023 [61 favorites]
Arizonan here. I've lived here for almost 50 years, lived here since before I was too small to remember anything. The southern Arizona desert is pretty much all I've known. 2020 was an absolutely brutal summer, where we got a record hottest month in July of that year, only to have that record broken in August. Now in 2023, we were fortunate to have a cooler than normal first half of June, and ever since then it has been hellish. July is looking to break August 2020's record by nearly two degrees. We're currently on day 13 in a row of an excessive heat warning, when we recently just ended a record excessive heat warning that lasted for 6 days straight. We've beat that by a full week now. Our previous record for 110º+ days in a year was 10, set twice previously. We're now at 15 and we've got August to go. In other words, it's just miserably non-stop hot.
We're getting a lot of that same sentiment from long-time residents - the "this heat is different and it's bad." The amount of heat for as long as its lasted has been just putting a stop to what little summer activity the city has. It's too hot to hike or bike past the early morning. Our clients at work are really struggling to generate business right now. There's nothing to do and people are bored as hell. I'm hoping that the economic consequences of high heat help turn more resources towards combating climate change, but... I'm not hopeful.
Sigh. At least we're not in Phoenix.
posted by azpenguin at 4:34 PM on July 28, 2023 [30 favorites]
We're getting a lot of that same sentiment from long-time residents - the "this heat is different and it's bad." The amount of heat for as long as its lasted has been just putting a stop to what little summer activity the city has. It's too hot to hike or bike past the early morning. Our clients at work are really struggling to generate business right now. There's nothing to do and people are bored as hell. I'm hoping that the economic consequences of high heat help turn more resources towards combating climate change, but... I'm not hopeful.
Sigh. At least we're not in Phoenix.
posted by azpenguin at 4:34 PM on July 28, 2023 [30 favorites]
Meanwhile in Phoenix Arizona, temps have gone above 110F / 43C for 28 days in a row. The lowest nighttime temp for all of July was 84F / 29C.
(the human scale of F comes in handy here. "How hot is it?" '100. It is one hundred hot outside. 100% hot.')
On preview, jinx.
posted by bartleby at 4:42 PM on July 28, 2023 [21 favorites]
(the human scale of F comes in handy here. "How hot is it?" '100. It is one hundred hot outside. 100% hot.')
On preview, jinx.
posted by bartleby at 4:42 PM on July 28, 2023 [21 favorites]
Apparently it's been hot enough, for long enough, in Phoenix that the cacti are dying!
posted by notoriety public at 4:54 PM on July 28, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by notoriety public at 4:54 PM on July 28, 2023 [14 favorites]
Anyway, I know the WSJ is gonna WSJ but these omissions seemed absolutely egregious to me.Since the WSJ was acquired by Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp in 2007, it is essentially the print arm of his Fox News empire. (He even announced a plan to merge them into a single company a few months ago, though apparently that fell through.) WSJ may still have some of its pre-acquisition DNA, and does slightly more respectable reporting than Fox News does, but it’s the same people sitting at the top.
posted by mbrubeck at 5:19 PM on July 28, 2023 [27 favorites]
I was born in Houston. Summers, as a child, I used to run down the sidewalk and play in the DDT fog used to suppress mosquitoes. This could explain a number of things...
posted by jim in austin at 5:19 PM on July 28, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 5:19 PM on July 28, 2023 [14 favorites]
Man, Texas sure fucking loves fucking with its cities attempts to do anything normal or human or decent.
posted by Artw at 5:22 PM on July 28, 2023 [36 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:22 PM on July 28, 2023 [36 favorites]
I live in Houston. Our A/C went out because one of the wires burned through. The repair guy said that it's a common problem right now, because they're being driven beyond their expected duty cycle. He strongly recommended getting a window unit to cool the living area, while the rest of the house cooks during the day.
We're moving the kid tomorrow, and none of us are looking forward to it. She lives north of town, so it's a bit cooler, but her apartment's surrounded by asphalt, so it's really hot right there.
posted by Spike Glee at 5:23 PM on July 28, 2023 [8 favorites]
We're moving the kid tomorrow, and none of us are looking forward to it. She lives north of town, so it's a bit cooler, but her apartment's surrounded by asphalt, so it's really hot right there.
posted by Spike Glee at 5:23 PM on July 28, 2023 [8 favorites]
I was born in Houston and lived there almost continuously until I was in my mid-30s, including my college years. My university alumni community is slowly breaking up and leaving the state: they're collectively liberal and mobile and they don't have to put up with our state government or being flooded out of their homes one more time by a hurricane or the increasingly nasty heat (combined with the awful humidity). The ones who have family ties or good jobs elsewhere are bailing out.
This article didn't talk about the outside worker situation and the Death Star law as yasaman mentioned above. It also didn't talk about the fact that our electrical grid still isn't entirely stable. It's more noticeable after the big winter storm a couple of years back, but ERCOT has been threatening rolling brownouts during high heat periods for years. Generally they soft-shoe it in the early stages by having your providers email you to conserve energy during the afternoon and until the sun is down (10pm) and not use big appliances/turn house temps up/etc. If you have a remote-controllable thermostat, your utility will give you money to let them auto-raise your temperature a certain number of times each summer. If those measures don't do it, then they start talking rolling brownouts. This is a bad summer, the worst since 2011 (Texans, help me out, that's the year it was 110+ for a couple months, right?) and possibly the coolest of the rest of our lives. As bad as it is in Houston (and Austin and Dallas and San Antonio and... ) now, it's not a patch on what will happen when the statewide grid goes down hard in one of these prolonged broiling spells.
It's going to be a hard sell for businesses to come here when our infrastructure completely fails in the climate-change heat that nobody in state government wants to admit is rising because it would upset their cronies in the oil business. Another one of the fuck-you bills to the cities passed in this year's legislative session was a bill aimed at preventing Dallas, where I live, from banning gasoline leaf blowers. Those mofos in Austin are going to kill the goose that's laying their financial golden egg, not to mention a hell of a lot of people, to keep their donors from losing money on their stock portfolios for five more minutes.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 5:34 PM on July 28, 2023 [40 favorites]
This article didn't talk about the outside worker situation and the Death Star law as yasaman mentioned above. It also didn't talk about the fact that our electrical grid still isn't entirely stable. It's more noticeable after the big winter storm a couple of years back, but ERCOT has been threatening rolling brownouts during high heat periods for years. Generally they soft-shoe it in the early stages by having your providers email you to conserve energy during the afternoon and until the sun is down (10pm) and not use big appliances/turn house temps up/etc. If you have a remote-controllable thermostat, your utility will give you money to let them auto-raise your temperature a certain number of times each summer. If those measures don't do it, then they start talking rolling brownouts. This is a bad summer, the worst since 2011 (Texans, help me out, that's the year it was 110+ for a couple months, right?) and possibly the coolest of the rest of our lives. As bad as it is in Houston (and Austin and Dallas and San Antonio and... ) now, it's not a patch on what will happen when the statewide grid goes down hard in one of these prolonged broiling spells.
It's going to be a hard sell for businesses to come here when our infrastructure completely fails in the climate-change heat that nobody in state government wants to admit is rising because it would upset their cronies in the oil business. Another one of the fuck-you bills to the cities passed in this year's legislative session was a bill aimed at preventing Dallas, where I live, from banning gasoline leaf blowers. Those mofos in Austin are going to kill the goose that's laying their financial golden egg, not to mention a hell of a lot of people, to keep their donors from losing money on their stock portfolios for five more minutes.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 5:34 PM on July 28, 2023 [40 favorites]
Iceland’s centuries old counter-programming marketing strategy is finally paying off.
It is!
"Revenue in the Apparel market amounts to US$380.80m in 2023. The market is expected to grow annually by 5.02%."
posted by clavdivs at 5:57 PM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
It is!
"Revenue in the Apparel market amounts to US$380.80m in 2023. The market is expected to grow annually by 5.02%."
posted by clavdivs at 5:57 PM on July 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
How long before climate-driven migration starts really shifting the US population around?
Couple of wet bulb events ought to do it
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:04 PM on July 28, 2023 [11 favorites]
Couple of wet bulb events ought to do it
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:04 PM on July 28, 2023 [11 favorites]
Couple of wet bulb events ought to do it
I doubt we’ll see a big wet bulb event in the US any time soon. The thing is, we don’t even need that for a massive catastrophe. A recent study done estimated that if Phoenix had a two day or longer area wide power outage during a heatwave like this, that the area would see 13,000 deaths. What happens if the Texas power grid fails during one of these heatwaves? It caused hundred of deaths in the winter. It could be far worse in the summer.
posted by azpenguin at 6:21 PM on July 28, 2023 [18 favorites]
I doubt we’ll see a big wet bulb event in the US any time soon. The thing is, we don’t even need that for a massive catastrophe. A recent study done estimated that if Phoenix had a two day or longer area wide power outage during a heatwave like this, that the area would see 13,000 deaths. What happens if the Texas power grid fails during one of these heatwaves? It caused hundred of deaths in the winter. It could be far worse in the summer.
posted by azpenguin at 6:21 PM on July 28, 2023 [18 favorites]
The heat this summer reminds of me this Simpsons meme making the rounds.
posted by Kitteh at 6:33 PM on July 28, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 6:33 PM on July 28, 2023 [8 favorites]
I doubt we’ll see a big wet bulb event in the US any time soon.
Maybe, but then again, no one expected the ocean to reach 38 degrees this year, either.
That’s the thing about climate change—as the climate warms, weather becomes more unpredictable.
posted by rhymedirective at 7:11 PM on July 28, 2023 [20 favorites]
Maybe, but then again, no one expected the ocean to reach 38 degrees this year, either.
That’s the thing about climate change—as the climate warms, weather becomes more unpredictable.
posted by rhymedirective at 7:11 PM on July 28, 2023 [20 favorites]
Anyway, I know the WSJ is gonna WSJ but these omissions seemed absolutely egregious to me.
More egregious still is that the article says not a fucking word about climate change, global warming, or carbon. It ardently and very, very carefully uses terms like "weather pattern." It has to perform a particularly delicate dance in this section: "A 2019 research paper found that, on average, each one-degree Fahrenheit increase in the mean summer temperature in the U.S. leads to a 0.154 percentage-point decrease in the annual growth rate of gross state product." Hmmm, that's weird! Now, why would a research paper be analyzing the effects of an increase in average temperature across the entire country? Why not a decrease? Why on Earth would the average temperature be increasing across the entire country? Shucks, the Wall Street Journal surely doesn't know!
It's like Godzilla is slowly eating a bus, just crushing it smaller and smaller one bite at a time, and someone inside the bus keeps looking at each new tooth as it comes punching through the side of the bus, and all they can do is grab someone else and say, "oh my God, look at this tooth that just made a hole in the bus! Is this like anything ELSE that's been happening to the bus in the last thirty seconds? Are there any OTHER teeth currently puncturing the side of the bus? Is there some mechanism that might be causing THIS tooth to burst through the window, while also causing OTHER teeth to simultaneously burst into the side of the bus? I don't know! Nobody knows! Do you fucking hear me? Nobody knows!"
posted by cubeb at 8:25 PM on July 28, 2023 [51 favorites]
More egregious still is that the article says not a fucking word about climate change, global warming, or carbon. It ardently and very, very carefully uses terms like "weather pattern." It has to perform a particularly delicate dance in this section: "A 2019 research paper found that, on average, each one-degree Fahrenheit increase in the mean summer temperature in the U.S. leads to a 0.154 percentage-point decrease in the annual growth rate of gross state product." Hmmm, that's weird! Now, why would a research paper be analyzing the effects of an increase in average temperature across the entire country? Why not a decrease? Why on Earth would the average temperature be increasing across the entire country? Shucks, the Wall Street Journal surely doesn't know!
It's like Godzilla is slowly eating a bus, just crushing it smaller and smaller one bite at a time, and someone inside the bus keeps looking at each new tooth as it comes punching through the side of the bus, and all they can do is grab someone else and say, "oh my God, look at this tooth that just made a hole in the bus! Is this like anything ELSE that's been happening to the bus in the last thirty seconds? Are there any OTHER teeth currently puncturing the side of the bus? Is there some mechanism that might be causing THIS tooth to burst through the window, while also causing OTHER teeth to simultaneously burst into the side of the bus? I don't know! Nobody knows! Do you fucking hear me? Nobody knows!"
posted by cubeb at 8:25 PM on July 28, 2023 [51 favorites]
I grew up in Houston and went to school in Austin in the 70’s - 80’s and watched the Katy Freeway and I-35 double in size to accommodate all those cars with one driver (I actually studied this in college). Houston could have built a mass transit along the old Katy rail line, similar to BART in San Francisco. Instead they opted to rip up the line and widen the freeway. Same deal with I-35 and MoPac in Austin.
Sensible mass transit could alleviate the freeway sprawl along with the burning of fossil fuels but I don't think it's gonna happen in my lifetime in Texas or anywhere else frankly.
posted by jabo at 9:04 PM on July 28, 2023 [17 favorites]
Sensible mass transit could alleviate the freeway sprawl along with the burning of fossil fuels but I don't think it's gonna happen in my lifetime in Texas or anywhere else frankly.
posted by jabo at 9:04 PM on July 28, 2023 [17 favorites]
When I had to go to Houston for work it was completely impossible to stay in a hotel that was not next to a freeway. The whole city is just freeway.
posted by emjaybee at 11:05 PM on July 28, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 11:05 PM on July 28, 2023 [13 favorites]
BBC: Chief heat officers want to help cities adapt to scorching heatwaves
This weekend, more than half of people in the US will be under severe weather alerts as a heat wave battering the south expands into large parts of the central and eastern US.posted by sebastienbailard at 11:51 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
It will be a busy time for the country's three chief heat officers, who experts say they are quickly becoming key figures on the frontline of climate change.
"I've been on the phone and sending more text messages than I can remember in my life," says Phoenix chief heat officer David Hondula.
The Arizona city has seen daily temperatures above 110F (43C) every day for nearly a month, and Mr Hondula says he is working non-stop organising the local response.
Houston Redditor's take on the wsj article: https://www.reddit.com/r/houston/comments/15bwmae/i_dont_want_to_be_here_anymore_the_economic_cost/
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:53 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:53 PM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
How long before climate-driven migration starts really shifting the US population around?
posted by gurple at 4:13 PM on July 28
New Orleans here. You can't run from climate change. But forced displacement has been happening and Louisiana Native Tribes have petitioned the UN Special committee on human rights, that the USA is genociding them via climate inaction, not to mention the lack of enforcement of Clean Water Act, RCRA, and Rivers and Harbors Act against Chevron et al for the past 80 years.
So it goes.
posted by eustatic at 3:20 AM on July 29, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by gurple at 4:13 PM on July 28
New Orleans here. You can't run from climate change. But forced displacement has been happening and Louisiana Native Tribes have petitioned the UN Special committee on human rights, that the USA is genociding them via climate inaction, not to mention the lack of enforcement of Clean Water Act, RCRA, and Rivers and Harbors Act against Chevron et al for the past 80 years.
So it goes.
posted by eustatic at 3:20 AM on July 29, 2023 [17 favorites]
I moved back to Houston three years ago to be closer to family. It's 6:30 am now. While I read this last night, the power went out for a couple minutes.
I woke up this morning and things were quiet. I thought the power had gone out again, and my first thought was, "I wonder how many thousands of people are going to die today if the power stays off?"
It turned out things were just quiet this morning.
posted by AlSweigart at 4:46 AM on July 29, 2023 [12 favorites]
I woke up this morning and things were quiet. I thought the power had gone out again, and my first thought was, "I wonder how many thousands of people are going to die today if the power stays off?"
It turned out things were just quiet this morning.
posted by AlSweigart at 4:46 AM on July 29, 2023 [12 favorites]
I need to get out of here.
posted by AlSweigart at 4:48 AM on July 29, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by AlSweigart at 4:48 AM on July 29, 2023 [20 favorites]
I'm wondering when beachfront property will cost less instead of more.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 6:57 AM on July 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 6:57 AM on July 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
"I had hoped—against available evidence—that the scorcher of 2011 was a black swan, a once-in-a-lifetime heat wave, but now it seems like almost every summer finds new ways to challenge my resilience and upend my expectations of the future. Like a lot of folks, I underestimated the urgency of climate change."
-- Forrest Wilder, Texas Monthly
posted by cubeb at 7:40 AM on July 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
-- Forrest Wilder, Texas Monthly
posted by cubeb at 7:40 AM on July 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
Born and raised in so called "Texas." Currently residing on land stolen from the Akokisa peoples. Often referred to as the greater "Houston" area.
Had a comrade visit from "Boston" last week trying to figure out their next move while they navigate an online grad school program. They will not be moving here. I can't imagine anyone coming to "Houston" between May and September and then choosing to inflict a life here upon themselves (barring significant mitigating circumstances e.g. family, employment, etc).
The action of Greg Abbott and the Texas legislature make sense to me in the context of "Texas" history. Said history of the current power-wielders being defined almost solely by their culture of genocidal slavery. Much like the so called "United States."
Two times the arguably worst humans to govern opted to secede to keep their slaves at risk of war. With more flags than that waving over countless slaves (not sure if it was 4, 5, or 6 of those flags, but pretty sure the most recent 4). Considering that with a toothless reconstruction and continued "conditional" and defacto slaving subsequent, and you have the nightmare hellscape that is "Texas" in 2023. Something of a microcosm of the "US" as a whole to me, as I have long thought of "Texas" being to the "US" what the "US" is to the rest of the world; both during my indoctrination and subsequent (and ongoing) decolonization.
Hopefully the deplorable treatment of these lands and peoples will further demonstrate to coming generations how ill-fitting systems built by genocidal slavers are at shepherding biomes (they have and will always net negative for biological life by measures of biodiversity and biomass; all colonizer spaces - to say nothing of the quality of experience for flora/fauna). I have optimism that these inescapable realities coupled with significant emerging labor movements will leave some chance at a non-fascist hellscape for some humans eeking out life in the latter half of the century.
Good luck, y'all.
posted by CPAnarchist at 8:03 AM on July 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
Had a comrade visit from "Boston" last week trying to figure out their next move while they navigate an online grad school program. They will not be moving here. I can't imagine anyone coming to "Houston" between May and September and then choosing to inflict a life here upon themselves (barring significant mitigating circumstances e.g. family, employment, etc).
The action of Greg Abbott and the Texas legislature make sense to me in the context of "Texas" history. Said history of the current power-wielders being defined almost solely by their culture of genocidal slavery. Much like the so called "United States."
Two times the arguably worst humans to govern opted to secede to keep their slaves at risk of war. With more flags than that waving over countless slaves (not sure if it was 4, 5, or 6 of those flags, but pretty sure the most recent 4). Considering that with a toothless reconstruction and continued "conditional" and defacto slaving subsequent, and you have the nightmare hellscape that is "Texas" in 2023. Something of a microcosm of the "US" as a whole to me, as I have long thought of "Texas" being to the "US" what the "US" is to the rest of the world; both during my indoctrination and subsequent (and ongoing) decolonization.
Hopefully the deplorable treatment of these lands and peoples will further demonstrate to coming generations how ill-fitting systems built by genocidal slavers are at shepherding biomes (they have and will always net negative for biological life by measures of biodiversity and biomass; all colonizer spaces - to say nothing of the quality of experience for flora/fauna). I have optimism that these inescapable realities coupled with significant emerging labor movements will leave some chance at a non-fascist hellscape for some humans eeking out life in the latter half of the century.
Good luck, y'all.
posted by CPAnarchist at 8:03 AM on July 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
How long before climate-driven migration starts really shifting the US population around?
A long time, because economic migration is currently controlling the US population. I am kind of infuriated by this article - like an alternate reality where Houston sucks and everybody is moving away due to the heat and horrible government policies. Texas and Houston may suck, but the actual reality is that 124,000 people moved to the Houston metro alone between 2021 and 2022, ie: in one year, according to the census.
The reality is that an expensive A/C bill for a few months is still far less than an expensive house payment that you have to pay every month, and electric bills aren't that much less in more temperate states. Arizona is not that far behind Houston either, and Las Vegas is one of the fastest growing major cities in the US. And what do the more temperate state governments do? Nothing. California is finally making a few legislative changes that their temperate beach communities are all fighting. Eventually, they might build some housing near the desert, which is worse than Houston.
I'm wondering when beachfront property will cost less instead of more.
With the minor caveat of maybe in a few places, in the majority of the US, never. The advantages that the ocean provides in terms of moderating temperature and cool ocean breezes in the summer far outweigh the disadvantages.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:20 AM on July 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
A long time, because economic migration is currently controlling the US population. I am kind of infuriated by this article - like an alternate reality where Houston sucks and everybody is moving away due to the heat and horrible government policies. Texas and Houston may suck, but the actual reality is that 124,000 people moved to the Houston metro alone between 2021 and 2022, ie: in one year, according to the census.
The reality is that an expensive A/C bill for a few months is still far less than an expensive house payment that you have to pay every month, and electric bills aren't that much less in more temperate states. Arizona is not that far behind Houston either, and Las Vegas is one of the fastest growing major cities in the US. And what do the more temperate state governments do? Nothing. California is finally making a few legislative changes that their temperate beach communities are all fighting. Eventually, they might build some housing near the desert, which is worse than Houston.
I'm wondering when beachfront property will cost less instead of more.
With the minor caveat of maybe in a few places, in the majority of the US, never. The advantages that the ocean provides in terms of moderating temperature and cool ocean breezes in the summer far outweigh the disadvantages.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:20 AM on July 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
My wife's uncle moved to live with his daughter outside Phoenix some 20+ years ago "to escape the terrible Chicago weather" in his retirement. He's now around 90 years old. His daughter is close to 70. The family have been shut-ins for the last 20 years because of the relentless heat.
My wife went to visit them a couple years ago. They huddle together in a small bungalow and rarely leave the house except for necessities. The 90 year old man keeps the temperature in the house around 85F because any cooler and he can't take it. And now that he's that age, he can no longer travel anywhere — even though he's relatively healthy. He's stuck there.
Now, I know being 90 years old means having difficulties with physical limitations. But Arizona is no place for a frail elderly gent. My wife was so relieved to be back home when she returned, even though she loves her relatives.
Edit: my very healthy wife could barely tolerate being outside when she was there, too.
posted by SoberHighland at 8:31 AM on July 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
My wife went to visit them a couple years ago. They huddle together in a small bungalow and rarely leave the house except for necessities. The 90 year old man keeps the temperature in the house around 85F because any cooler and he can't take it. And now that he's that age, he can no longer travel anywhere — even though he's relatively healthy. He's stuck there.
Now, I know being 90 years old means having difficulties with physical limitations. But Arizona is no place for a frail elderly gent. My wife was so relieved to be back home when she returned, even though she loves her relatives.
Edit: my very healthy wife could barely tolerate being outside when she was there, too.
posted by SoberHighland at 8:31 AM on July 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
When your weather reporter has to start using terms from another language to report the weather, you know the climate has changed. When the language in question is Arabic, you really need to take notice. (Haboob - dust storm, khamseen - a hot wind that makes the heat worse, not better.)
posted by ocschwar at 8:49 AM on July 29, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 8:49 AM on July 29, 2023 [17 favorites]
I think the ocean property issue is more w/r/t sea level rise. its great to catch that breeze and all but high tide might suck.
posted by supermedusa at 9:33 AM on July 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 9:33 AM on July 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm wondering when beachfront property will cost less instead of more.
The trick is guessing where the beachfront will be.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:34 AM on July 29, 2023 [19 favorites]
The trick is guessing where the beachfront will be.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:34 AM on July 29, 2023 [19 favorites]
I was assuming the issue with beachfront property would be risk of storms, though sea level rise also means flooding will go farther and be higher.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 9:44 AM on July 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 9:44 AM on July 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
With the minor caveat of maybe in a few places, in the majority of the US, never. The advantages that the ocean provides in terms of moderating temperature and cool ocean breezes in the summer far outweigh the disadvantages.
Ummmmm do a Google search for “houses falling into ocean [insert name of ocean-bordering state]”
It’s happening in Maine!
There’s quite a bit of normalcy bias going on in this thread, to be honest.
posted by rhymedirective at 9:44 AM on July 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
Ummmmm do a Google search for “houses falling into ocean [insert name of ocean-bordering state]”
It’s happening in Maine!
There’s quite a bit of normalcy bias going on in this thread, to be honest.
posted by rhymedirective at 9:44 AM on July 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'm wondering when beachfront property will cost less instead of more.
When the property owner can't get insurance?
Do ocean-front properties even have flood insurance?
posted by Rash at 11:57 AM on July 29, 2023
When the property owner can't get insurance?
Do ocean-front properties even have flood insurance?
posted by Rash at 11:57 AM on July 29, 2023
When the property owner can't get insurance?
Do ocean-front properties even have flood insurance
You’d probably be able to get insurance for everything except water/flood damage, the burglary risk isn’t really so different by being ocean front.
But you’ll have to accept your self insuring by being ocean front at some point. There probably some areas with lower risks of storms/ocean rise that are still insurable but Florida has to be complex with the storm/hurricane situation even before climate change.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:06 PM on July 29, 2023
Do ocean-front properties even have flood insurance
You’d probably be able to get insurance for everything except water/flood damage, the burglary risk isn’t really so different by being ocean front.
But you’ll have to accept your self insuring by being ocean front at some point. There probably some areas with lower risks of storms/ocean rise that are still insurable but Florida has to be complex with the storm/hurricane situation even before climate change.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:06 PM on July 29, 2023
Texas and Houston may suck, but the actual reality is that 124,000 people moved to the Houston metro alone between 2021 and 2022, ie: in one year, according to the census.
Half of whom immigrated internationally I believe. Many of the rest due to corporate relocations. (Source). The former I suspect is related to global imperialism. The latter as well.
posted by CPAnarchist at 1:12 PM on July 29, 2023
Half of whom immigrated internationally I believe. Many of the rest due to corporate relocations. (Source). The former I suspect is related to global imperialism. The latter as well.
posted by CPAnarchist at 1:12 PM on July 29, 2023
Relatedly, "Texas" just nixed right to water for construction workers and is working on lowering property taxes while still having no state income tax. The fascists took over "Houston" ISD as well and are diversifying their tactics for "Austin" ISD. Pretty bleak times and coming to a state/nation near you.
posted by CPAnarchist at 1:20 PM on July 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by CPAnarchist at 1:20 PM on July 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
The fascists took over "Houston" ISD
I just saw a headline saying that they're turning school libraries into 'discipline centers'? Are they purposely trying to sound like movie villains?
posted by LindsayIrene at 1:59 PM on July 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
I just saw a headline saying that they're turning school libraries into 'discipline centers'? Are they purposely trying to sound like movie villains?
posted by LindsayIrene at 1:59 PM on July 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
This is about Abbott wanting to push "school choice" by creating additional demand.
posted by Selena777 at 2:02 PM on July 29, 2023
posted by Selena777 at 2:02 PM on July 29, 2023
I know it is unkind to many of the people living there, but these are the states enthusiastically on the side of oil companies and enthusiastically against anything alternative energy or climate friendly.
I have a friend who plans to retire and buy a house on the Gulf Coast of Florida. It isn't as cheap as Florida real estate used to be. Home insurers are moving out of state/refusing to issue policies. I reallly don't get it.
posted by olykate at 3:09 PM on July 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have a friend who plans to retire and buy a house on the Gulf Coast of Florida. It isn't as cheap as Florida real estate used to be. Home insurers are moving out of state/refusing to issue policies. I reallly don't get it.
posted by olykate at 3:09 PM on July 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
I've lived in Texas since 1980. My family, my friends, the location-specific job that I love, my house, my community--they're all here. It's my home. But I realize that staying here might not be sustainable and wonder if there will be enough power and water to keep us all alive and safe through increasingly harsh weather on both sides of the thermometer, through historic floods and dry spells. And the politics here are just filthy--evil men and women leveraging people's bigotry to stay in power and hollow out everything they can get their hands on and keep drilling for oil, baby, going so far as to handicap renewable energy sources in favor of fossil fuels. It's all such a waste of talent and potential. It's heartbreaking.
Some of the aforementioned friends have already started to trickle out to other parts of the country to escape the heat or the draconian policies that endanger their families. I'm putting off a decision for now because I simply don't want to leave everything I have. Plus, fuck these assholes--it's my state too, and I have not lost hope for it yet.
posted by Tuba Toothpaste at 3:50 PM on July 29, 2023 [10 favorites]
Some of the aforementioned friends have already started to trickle out to other parts of the country to escape the heat or the draconian policies that endanger their families. I'm putting off a decision for now because I simply don't want to leave everything I have. Plus, fuck these assholes--it's my state too, and I have not lost hope for it yet.
posted by Tuba Toothpaste at 3:50 PM on July 29, 2023 [10 favorites]
I'm putting off a decision for now because I simply don't want to leave everything I have. Plus, fuck these assholes--it's my state too, and I have not lost hope for it yet.
As a Floridian, I feel this. My family is here. My community based non-profit is here. And I don't want to let the state be completely run by assholes. I know this comes up in a lot of these similar threads and with other folks in my life, but it's not super easy to leave.
Is there a comparable job where I would be going? How do I move my aging parents who have health concerns? What do I do about the very harsh seasonal depression that I suffer from that finally got under control when I moved here two decades ago? It's very easy for other people to say leave and a lot harder for people to actually do it. Even my friends who have left -- it took capacity and resources and having a place to go.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 4:19 PM on July 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
As a Floridian, I feel this. My family is here. My community based non-profit is here. And I don't want to let the state be completely run by assholes. I know this comes up in a lot of these similar threads and with other folks in my life, but it's not super easy to leave.
Is there a comparable job where I would be going? How do I move my aging parents who have health concerns? What do I do about the very harsh seasonal depression that I suffer from that finally got under control when I moved here two decades ago? It's very easy for other people to say leave and a lot harder for people to actually do it. Even my friends who have left -- it took capacity and resources and having a place to go.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 4:19 PM on July 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
I know it is unkind to many of the people living there, but these are the states enthusiastically on the side of oil companies and enthusiastically against anything alternative energy or climate friendly.
Just please, stop. What is the point of this statement? That we shouldn't care about what's happening to people in Texas because the state government is terrible?
The entire country is purple. The only reason we have "red states" and "blue states" is that in some states, it's a reddish purple, and in some states, it's more blue, and we have a winner-takes-all system. In Texas, the margin is razor thin; the most recent numbers I can find (2017) put Republicans up by only three percentage points.
Even if you are absolutely burnt out on empathy for Republicans, which I absolutely understand, there are millions of people living in red states who are not Republican. It's easy to shit on the entire state, perhaps even cathartic, but imagine being someone who lives there and constantly coming across statements that you deserve it, that you're not worth caring about because you did it to yourself, that you should just leave (spoken by someone who doesn't know anything about why you haven't), etc.
It sucks and I'm tired.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 4:45 PM on July 29, 2023 [33 favorites]
Just please, stop. What is the point of this statement? That we shouldn't care about what's happening to people in Texas because the state government is terrible?
The entire country is purple. The only reason we have "red states" and "blue states" is that in some states, it's a reddish purple, and in some states, it's more blue, and we have a winner-takes-all system. In Texas, the margin is razor thin; the most recent numbers I can find (2017) put Republicans up by only three percentage points.
Even if you are absolutely burnt out on empathy for Republicans, which I absolutely understand, there are millions of people living in red states who are not Republican. It's easy to shit on the entire state, perhaps even cathartic, but imagine being someone who lives there and constantly coming across statements that you deserve it, that you're not worth caring about because you did it to yourself, that you should just leave (spoken by someone who doesn't know anything about why you haven't), etc.
It sucks and I'm tired.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 4:45 PM on July 29, 2023 [33 favorites]
LindsayIrene: “Are they purposely trying to sound like movie villains?”It is extremely important to remember that these people truly believe that they are the good guys. People who resort to violence usually believe their moral code demands it.
posted by ob1quixote at 7:25 PM on July 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
Kutsuwamushi
It is the conservative politicians who run these states who are voting against their interests and the interests of the people who live there. I don't mean to shit on entire states, and nobody who lives there, republican OR democrat, deserves any of this. But the republican politicians keep making bad policy.
posted by olykate at 9:23 PM on July 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
It is the conservative politicians who run these states who are voting against their interests and the interests of the people who live there. I don't mean to shit on entire states, and nobody who lives there, republican OR democrat, deserves any of this. But the republican politicians keep making bad policy.
posted by olykate at 9:23 PM on July 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
When the property owner can't get insurance?
Home insurance companies no longer renewing policies in Florida
Florida home insurance rates expected to increase by 40% in 2023
posted by meowzilla at 11:51 PM on July 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Home insurance companies no longer renewing policies in Florida
Florida home insurance rates expected to increase by 40% in 2023
posted by meowzilla at 11:51 PM on July 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Talked to my folks recently. They retired from Chicago to Phoenix.
They said that the ground has gotten so hot that the buried water lines are all delivering hot water. In Chicago they have to be buried below the frost line - typically four feet - so even in the summer the taps are still in the 60° range. Not so in Arizona.
So their hot water tap is hot and so is their cold water. I imagine you can have a cold water dispenser and ice maker in your fridge but that's even more energy lost to moving heat around. It sounds miserable.
posted by JoeZydeco at 5:51 AM on July 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
They said that the ground has gotten so hot that the buried water lines are all delivering hot water. In Chicago they have to be buried below the frost line - typically four feet - so even in the summer the taps are still in the 60° range. Not so in Arizona.
So their hot water tap is hot and so is their cold water. I imagine you can have a cold water dispenser and ice maker in your fridge but that's even more energy lost to moving heat around. It sounds miserable.
posted by JoeZydeco at 5:51 AM on July 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
hank you, Kutsuwamushi, for this comment.
As someone who lives close to Houston, everything you said is exactly true and exactly my current lived experience.
Ironically, one reason I can't "just move" is because we have solar panels that we are paying off. It is orders of magnitude harder to sell a house with panels that are not completely paid for.
The comment you specifically quoted is interesting in the fact that I live near some oil processing plants. Legitimately, I can not make a drive to or from work in any direction without passing them. Yet, our subdivision is covered in solar panels. It's not a majority, but it is very noticeable.
In summary, please read Kutsuwamushi's comment. Please also understand that there are plenty of people in Texas who think the current Texas lege, and Abbot in particular are bonkers. (Dan Patrick is no better.) Please also read the comments in an FPP from a while ago about legislation denying any sorts of care to trans minors and the reasons some are either not in a place to move or not willing to move so they can stand and fight for those who lack the resources to move.
And, FFS, please allow those of us who live in Texas a little compassion. A heck of a lot of us are between a rock and a hard place.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 7:17 AM on July 30, 2023 [19 favorites]
As someone who lives close to Houston, everything you said is exactly true and exactly my current lived experience.
Ironically, one reason I can't "just move" is because we have solar panels that we are paying off. It is orders of magnitude harder to sell a house with panels that are not completely paid for.
The comment you specifically quoted is interesting in the fact that I live near some oil processing plants. Legitimately, I can not make a drive to or from work in any direction without passing them. Yet, our subdivision is covered in solar panels. It's not a majority, but it is very noticeable.
In summary, please read Kutsuwamushi's comment. Please also understand that there are plenty of people in Texas who think the current Texas lege, and Abbot in particular are bonkers. (Dan Patrick is no better.) Please also read the comments in an FPP from a while ago about legislation denying any sorts of care to trans minors and the reasons some are either not in a place to move or not willing to move so they can stand and fight for those who lack the resources to move.
And, FFS, please allow those of us who live in Texas a little compassion. A heck of a lot of us are between a rock and a hard place.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 7:17 AM on July 30, 2023 [19 favorites]
When other posters here trot out comments about how people in states with absolutely shitty governance deserve all horrors they get by sheer dint of being their home, it reminds me that perhaps those people aren't very nice people after all. My mother's entire family has lived in Texas for generations--"we were here before the whites" is a common family refrain--and they aren't thrilled with the supremascist turn of the state either, but it really is an ugly look on MeFi when this happens. Same comment applies to shitting on people who live in rural areas.
posted by Kitteh at 8:47 AM on July 30, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:47 AM on July 30, 2023 [9 favorites]
Sometimes, that's exactly it. The Michael Bolton attitude -- "Why should I change? He's the one who sucks" -- rings true in daily life in so many ways. Being an unrepentant blue outpost in a deep red region can require patience and courage, but it's also an example to others that the knuckle-draggers don't automatically get their way because there's more of them. That there are other ways to live. That you CAN try that in a small town.
posted by delfin at 9:13 AM on July 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by delfin at 9:13 AM on July 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Numbers seem to bear out that viewpoint, with the Southwest and Florida still growing at [to me] jaw-dropping rates.
How long before climate-driven migration starts really shifting the US population around?
This is what I want to know! When are we going to read about people moving to the Northern states as a climate response? All we’re fed is the “mass migration” to Florida and Texas. Surely not everyone who moves down south is stupid…
An acquaintance of mine recently moved to Florida (The Villages, if you please) and she is a brilliant former teacher. Why, why would she do it? She left before I could ask her, and she wouldn’t have appreciated a grilling from me, anyway. Now she’s getting grilled firsthand by the relentless heat down there.
posted by BostonTerrier at 12:05 PM on July 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
How long before climate-driven migration starts really shifting the US population around?
This is what I want to know! When are we going to read about people moving to the Northern states as a climate response? All we’re fed is the “mass migration” to Florida and Texas. Surely not everyone who moves down south is stupid…
An acquaintance of mine recently moved to Florida (The Villages, if you please) and she is a brilliant former teacher. Why, why would she do it? She left before I could ask her, and she wouldn’t have appreciated a grilling from me, anyway. Now she’s getting grilled firsthand by the relentless heat down there.
posted by BostonTerrier at 12:05 PM on July 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
If the WSJ is not mentioning climate change, that's new. I read it daily from January through June (someone in my apartment building got it delivered but never picked it up, and their crossword puzzle is good...). There would usually be four to five pages in the front section that would mention the negative effects of climate change on business, and how business was trying to cope/ameliorate those effects. Then I'd hit the editorial pages, and it would just be piles of "climate change does not exist!"
If they are avoiding mentioning climate change in the news articles, then that is really new, and I mean new since last month new.
posted by rednikki at 12:17 PM on July 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
If they are avoiding mentioning climate change in the news articles, then that is really new, and I mean new since last month new.
posted by rednikki at 12:17 PM on July 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's dumb to talk as though Texas' state government actually represents the majority, or even a statistically significant plurality, of the people living in Texas. It represents the owners only. Money is speech in the USA, it has been since the beginning and recently codified under Citizens United.
It's arguable the same everywhere in the "States". In some places, and at some times in Texas, popular pressure and revolt has mitigated the tyranny of the used-car salesmen- but it never lasts, because it's a two-party system, and the two parties are Good Cop and Bad Cop.
Less Cop or No Cop have never been options on the table. Under the system as constituted, they never will be.
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 12:22 PM on July 30, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's arguable the same everywhere in the "States". In some places, and at some times in Texas, popular pressure and revolt has mitigated the tyranny of the used-car salesmen- but it never lasts, because it's a two-party system, and the two parties are Good Cop and Bad Cop.
Less Cop or No Cop have never been options on the table. Under the system as constituted, they never will be.
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 12:22 PM on July 30, 2023 [7 favorites]
They said that the ground has gotten so hot that the buried water lines are all delivering hot water.
Here in Tucson as well. The other day I checked our cold water tap. 105°. Gaahhhhhhhh. I always have water in the fridge now.
posted by azpenguin at 1:17 PM on July 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
Here in Tucson as well. The other day I checked our cold water tap. 105°. Gaahhhhhhhh. I always have water in the fridge now.
posted by azpenguin at 1:17 PM on July 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
Texas is the future of the USA. The wealth of the USA is based on racism, and Texas is there to remind you that the USA has never dealt with this, now that we are struggling to abolish a different source of capital, oil.
Remember when southerners fought off the Confederacy, but the Union Army had to sail onto Galveston and enforce the 14th amendment, and declare "all slaves are free" by force of arms? Those of us down here think about that a lot, more often than people not down here, probably. When the Army left without completing Reconstruction, we were put on this path.
How do we get the United States to come back down to Texas, and force divestment from oil, as it did from human chattel? Because this culture war bullshit the political parties promote only serves to consolidate power by dividing us.
Especially in regards to climate politics. Either you nationalize Exxon, or it nationalizes you. Having the USA there to drive inaction on climate is part of the plan for Exxon et al to stay solvent despite the stranded Assets problem. Look up the 45Q tax credit for fossil fuels. That is your wealth Exxon is stealing, too.
Within the USA, within a state, forcing people out, those people who are not in line with using a state's sovereign wealth to secure oil industry assets, that is part of the plan.
So, I would say that we are not going to fix the climate without turning Texas "blue" (again), as the jargon goes, and we are not going to do that without a common idea of Texas residents as we think of ourselves as part of the USA.
And if you have no love for Texans, and fighting for your freedom alongside Texans on the front lines, I'm sure those of us in Louisiana, who don't even have the money or electoral votes, are beneath concern. But we also have over 500 of these climate doomsday factoriies as well, and many of us, study them, comment, sue them, throw our bodies and families at them to stop them, everyday. The state of Louisiana is suing ALL of the oil companies, but this issue covered nowhere in the national press.
So I hope you will at least fight alongside Texans, and free the USA.
posted by eustatic at 2:33 PM on July 30, 2023 [11 favorites]
Remember when southerners fought off the Confederacy, but the Union Army had to sail onto Galveston and enforce the 14th amendment, and declare "all slaves are free" by force of arms? Those of us down here think about that a lot, more often than people not down here, probably. When the Army left without completing Reconstruction, we were put on this path.
How do we get the United States to come back down to Texas, and force divestment from oil, as it did from human chattel? Because this culture war bullshit the political parties promote only serves to consolidate power by dividing us.
Especially in regards to climate politics. Either you nationalize Exxon, or it nationalizes you. Having the USA there to drive inaction on climate is part of the plan for Exxon et al to stay solvent despite the stranded Assets problem. Look up the 45Q tax credit for fossil fuels. That is your wealth Exxon is stealing, too.
Within the USA, within a state, forcing people out, those people who are not in line with using a state's sovereign wealth to secure oil industry assets, that is part of the plan.
So, I would say that we are not going to fix the climate without turning Texas "blue" (again), as the jargon goes, and we are not going to do that without a common idea of Texas residents as we think of ourselves as part of the USA.
And if you have no love for Texans, and fighting for your freedom alongside Texans on the front lines, I'm sure those of us in Louisiana, who don't even have the money or electoral votes, are beneath concern. But we also have over 500 of these climate doomsday factoriies as well, and many of us, study them, comment, sue them, throw our bodies and families at them to stop them, everyday. The state of Louisiana is suing ALL of the oil companies, but this issue covered nowhere in the national press.
So I hope you will at least fight alongside Texans, and free the USA.
posted by eustatic at 2:33 PM on July 30, 2023 [11 favorites]
Democracy Now on Project 2025, to the republican plan for undoing climate and renewable progress for the USA
Note how many of the Project 2025 types are based in Texas. Texas is our future, and we have to fight for Texas to save the world, like literally.
posted by eustatic at 8:07 PM on July 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
Note how many of the Project 2025 types are based in Texas. Texas is our future, and we have to fight for Texas to save the world, like literally.
posted by eustatic at 8:07 PM on July 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
We ended slavery in large part because coal was a better energy source than slaves. It's clear the north won the war for this reason, but earlier coal helped end slavery in the UK and the north.
Yet, renewables are not a better energy source per se than oil & gas. We'd definitely obliterate every other planetary boundary if renewables were better, so renewables being worse is a good thing, if anything renewables are still too good. for our own good
Interestingly, renewables are a more "just" energy source, in that people can have much more control over their own means of energy collection, assuming they accept intermittent power. I suppose people loose control once you talk about national grids that provide base load by using wind all over the country.
Anyways..
In Europe, 62k people dying from heat, so similar to road deaths, nowhere near enough to prompt serious action that drops GDP. It's largely eastern Europe where they've less experience with heat, which confounds because adaptation shall reduce these numbers.
I'm cautiously optimistic that maybe 1 million heat related deaths per year would prompt real action in Europe, India, China, etc, once adaption pathways look exhausted. I do think these places would happily trade those lives for the economic benefits of oil, gas, coal, meat, dairy, etc, but once they begin a serious conversation then they'll impose some consequences.
America remains different though. I'm really not hopeful they'll act even once heat kills 1 million of them per year. We'll hit synchronous maize crop failure first, so maybe no more corn syrup prompts some lobbying there.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:25 PM on August 2, 2023
Yet, renewables are not a better energy source per se than oil & gas. We'd definitely obliterate every other planetary boundary if renewables were better, so renewables being worse is a good thing, if anything renewables are still too good. for our own good
Interestingly, renewables are a more "just" energy source, in that people can have much more control over their own means of energy collection, assuming they accept intermittent power. I suppose people loose control once you talk about national grids that provide base load by using wind all over the country.
Anyways..
In Europe, 62k people dying from heat, so similar to road deaths, nowhere near enough to prompt serious action that drops GDP. It's largely eastern Europe where they've less experience with heat, which confounds because adaptation shall reduce these numbers.
I'm cautiously optimistic that maybe 1 million heat related deaths per year would prompt real action in Europe, India, China, etc, once adaption pathways look exhausted. I do think these places would happily trade those lives for the economic benefits of oil, gas, coal, meat, dairy, etc, but once they begin a serious conversation then they'll impose some consequences.
America remains different though. I'm really not hopeful they'll act even once heat kills 1 million of them per year. We'll hit synchronous maize crop failure first, so maybe no more corn syrup prompts some lobbying there.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:25 PM on August 2, 2023
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The weeks of triple digit temperatures that the article mentions would be hellish. I was never there when it got that hot, but even low 90s in Houston is borderline unbearable.
posted by Dr. Twist at 4:11 PM on July 28, 2023 [2 favorites]