"We are always the topic, rarely the voice."
August 25, 2023 8:43 AM Subscribe
Bad-ass writer Niko Stratis on the frustration of being talked about without being talked to in media (slPasteMagazine)
You can also find her Substack here.
You can also find her Substack here.
This quote from the article feels like the best quick summary, but it's worth a read from end to end;posted by krisjohn at 4:59 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
not only has nothing changed now that we know about santana, he's following the exact same pr/publicist script; get out your bingo cards for his apology, which ticks off everything except being written on the iOS notes app:
- it wasn't my intent to hurt people
- i apologise to everyone i offended
- they were insensitive comments
- they don't reflect me
- i respect the lgbt community
If I were famous, I'd just shut the fuck up about everything outside of things I knew intimately or cared about passionately. It's way too easy to fuck up simply because your influence is outsize of your knowledge.
Someone's going to comment about spotless giraffes, get ripped to shreds, and you'll decide that you want to support your friend, and say you don't see the big deal about spotless giraffes. Except, you missed the part where spotless giraffes became a proxy war about racial purity, and you didn't pay attention to your friend slowly becoming a racist, because whenever you hang out, you're talking music and beer.
I know it can feel like a minefield, but also how do people not know to just take a breath and say, "y'know, lemme get back to you on that one, I don't know why you're asking that."
posted by explosion at 6:27 PM on August 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
Someone's going to comment about spotless giraffes, get ripped to shreds, and you'll decide that you want to support your friend, and say you don't see the big deal about spotless giraffes. Except, you missed the part where spotless giraffes became a proxy war about racial purity, and you didn't pay attention to your friend slowly becoming a racist, because whenever you hang out, you're talking music and beer.
I know it can feel like a minefield, but also how do people not know to just take a breath and say, "y'know, lemme get back to you on that one, I don't know why you're asking that."
posted by explosion at 6:27 PM on August 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
I don't know why we're comparing celebrities making transphobic statements to a celebrity innocently using an obscure dogwhistle because they don't know its meaning.
Like, I think this comparison is really out of place.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:09 PM on August 25, 2023 [10 favorites]
Like, I think this comparison is really out of place.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:09 PM on August 25, 2023 [10 favorites]
who's using the obscure dogwhistle?
alice cooper? this is what he said:
is it santana? this is what he said:
posted by i used to be someone else at 8:13 PM on August 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
alice cooper? this is what he said:
A guy can walk into a woman’s bathroom at any time and just say, “I just feel like I’m a woman today” and have the time of his life in there, and he’s not in the least bit… He’s just taking advantage of that situation. Well, that’s going to happen. Somebody’s going to get raped, and the guy’s going to say, “Well, I felt like a girl that day, and then I felt like a guy.”is that obscure?
is it santana? this is what he said:
“When God made you and me, before we came out of the womb, you know who you are and what you are,” he said. “Later on, when you grow out of it, you see things, and you start believing that you could be something that sounds good, but you know it ain’t right.”is that obscure?
The guitarist then took his comments a step further, making a commonly disputed claim that there are only two genders. “Because a woman is a woman and a man is a man — that’s it,” he said. “Whatever you wanna do in the closet, that’s your business. I’m OK with that.”
Santana also gave a shoutout to comedian Dave Chappelle — who has also been criticized in recent years for making anti-trans comments during his stand-up routine — by bringing his hands together and saying, “I am like this with my brother Dave Chappelle.”
posted by i used to be someone else at 8:13 PM on August 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
i used to be..., pretty sure Kutsuwamushi was just referring to the hypothetical in explosion's comment.
posted by sagc at 8:21 PM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by sagc at 8:21 PM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
i mean, i guess? but like who's using obscure dogwhistles these days? the celebrities and other bigots are using bullhorns right now.
posted by i used to be someone else at 8:23 PM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by i used to be someone else at 8:23 PM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
Kutsuwamushi was responding to explotion's comment which seems to imply that the problem is mostly caused by celebrities accidentally using obscure dogwhistles.
Not sure that's what explotion meant, but that's how it read to me too.
Also not great to say that famous people should not talk about things outside of their area of expertise. That's what people said to Louis Armstrong when he spoke out about segregation.
Famous people are allowed to have opinions about all kinds of things and use their platform to talk about those opinions.
That's not the problem here.
It's when those opinions are wrong & harmful that one objects.
posted by Zumbador at 8:55 PM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Not sure that's what explotion meant, but that's how it read to me too.
Also not great to say that famous people should not talk about things outside of their area of expertise. That's what people said to Louis Armstrong when he spoke out about segregation.
Famous people are allowed to have opinions about all kinds of things and use their platform to talk about those opinions.
That's not the problem here.
It's when those opinions are wrong & harmful that one objects.
posted by Zumbador at 8:55 PM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
obscure dogwhistle would be a good user name.
posted by y2karl at 9:08 PM on August 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 9:08 PM on August 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
That was an excellent article, thanks for posting.
There's a little parody/response song I ran into on social media that's titled "stop giving men microphones" that could be well adapted to this phenomenon except I don't think that would cover all examples of course, but it could be a good start.
In a broader sense, we see this with crap opinions of all kinds, the media keep presenting us with the useless utterings of people with a very exaggerated sense of their intelligence and relevance... the crappiest lowest effort opinions ever, but ohhh it's a celebrity it's going to drive traffic let's give this a megaphone that'll be fun ... It's unconscionable and reckless and dangerous. But it won't stop because we're in a media system where everything is currency. Even people's lives
posted by bitteschoen at 12:23 AM on August 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
There's a little parody/response song I ran into on social media that's titled "stop giving men microphones" that could be well adapted to this phenomenon except I don't think that would cover all examples of course, but it could be a good start.
In a broader sense, we see this with crap opinions of all kinds, the media keep presenting us with the useless utterings of people with a very exaggerated sense of their intelligence and relevance... the crappiest lowest effort opinions ever, but ohhh it's a celebrity it's going to drive traffic let's give this a megaphone that'll be fun ... It's unconscionable and reckless and dangerous. But it won't stop because we're in a media system where everything is currency. Even people's lives
posted by bitteschoen at 12:23 AM on August 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
If I were famous, I'd just shut the fuck up about everything outside of things I knew intimately or cared about passionately.I generally agree, but both of these guys are very religious. Cooper is an evangelical Christian and I believe Santana is Catholic*. It’s not just celebrity driving their need to share a transphobic agenda; it’s also the word of God.
* Strictly anecdotal here, but my mother and her husband are evangelicals. Her husband loves guitar music and enjoys Santana, but wouldn’t listen to him for years because of songs like “Black Magic Woman.” When he found out Santana was a man of God, it made some of the “pagan” influence in his music okay. Yes, this is weird!
posted by pxe2000 at 3:50 AM on August 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
“When someone shows you who they are believe them the first time.”
― Maya Angelou
It's 2023.
When someone with a platform/influence, says or does something harmful about something that could easily be causally researched via open tools, with a low barrier to entry - such as Wikipedia... BELIEVE THEM.
Yes famous & rich people/celebrities exist in weird reality bubbles, but it's up to them to stick their heads outside the bubble before making a public statement.
It's gone far beyond the point of "Giving Grace to people" or "That's what they said what they meant was.." THEY ALREADY SAID WHAT THEY MEANT.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:19 AM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
One of the things that infuriates me about this crap is that if you are not a trans writer/journalist, then there is no fucking reason to be asking Alice Cooper or any rock dinosaur about what they think about trans rights. Did it add to the story? Was it relevant to your story? No? Then shut your mouth.
Carlos Santana just showed his ass without journalist prompting but I cannot imagine why a cis writer would need to ask any celebrity their thoughts about this matter if said celebrity has no real reason to offer their opinion. It's lazy shitty writing.
As Niko points out in her article, cis folks can feel all kinds of ways about listening to the music of these people now but ultimately those feelings are irrelevant for a minority group who is just trying to enjoy their lives without being killed.
posted by Kitteh at 5:59 AM on August 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
Carlos Santana just showed his ass without journalist prompting but I cannot imagine why a cis writer would need to ask any celebrity their thoughts about this matter if said celebrity has no real reason to offer their opinion. It's lazy shitty writing.
As Niko points out in her article, cis folks can feel all kinds of ways about listening to the music of these people now but ultimately those feelings are irrelevant for a minority group who is just trying to enjoy their lives without being killed.
posted by Kitteh at 5:59 AM on August 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
who's using the obscure dogwhistle?
Others have already clarified for me, but given the topic and the fact that five people have favorited your comment, I want to make it absolutely clear:
The point of my comment was the opposite, that this is not a problem of celebrities unwittingly using obscure dogwhistles when talking about a topic they know little about, but explicit transphobia. I was disagreeing with the comment directly above mine that seemed to draw an equivalence between the two.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:05 PM on August 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
Others have already clarified for me, but given the topic and the fact that five people have favorited your comment, I want to make it absolutely clear:
The point of my comment was the opposite, that this is not a problem of celebrities unwittingly using obscure dogwhistles when talking about a topic they know little about, but explicit transphobia. I was disagreeing with the comment directly above mine that seemed to draw an equivalence between the two.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:05 PM on August 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think rockers and other public figures should have opinions on these issues. Specifically I think they should think about the people involved and try to show compassion. Like this.
posted by poe at 5:47 PM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by poe at 5:47 PM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
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