"They do cushion our lives. But I cushion their lives."
January 8, 2024 12:36 PM Subscribe
Something that this kind of thing seems to overlook is the other side of the family. There's a difference between living with your mother and living with your mother-in-law. And in addition, you what if you still have one or more parents on each side. Which do you live with, and how will the other side react to it?
posted by plonkee at 1:48 PM on January 8 [8 favorites]
posted by plonkee at 1:48 PM on January 8 [8 favorites]
From the article:
posted by slkinsey at 2:10 PM on January 8 [5 favorites]
I wrote a stern but collected message in which I outlined my years of resentment, the kind of note I wish I could have written for myself thirty years earlier, the kind of note, one could argue, that I wouldn’t have been able to write if I didn’t live with her. To my surprise, she apologized!It's too late to get something like this from either of my parents--my father effectively fell down and died one day, and my mother sank into dementia not long after--but I definitely would have appreciated it if it had. If this sort of thing is facilitated by multigenerational living, it sounds like a major upside.
posted by slkinsey at 2:10 PM on January 8 [5 favorites]
Multigenerational living ends up putting conservative, patriarchal elders in charge of kids and teens, which way too often means imposing shitty religious beliefs, patriarchy and homophobia upon those kids and teens. There's no way I want my parents pushing their social mores on my kids, and my parents aren't even religious or all that socially conservative.
Every time I hear some well-meaning progressive go deep on that "village of elders" bullshit, I think of the wrecked lives of young women, secularists and gay people that entails.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 2:24 PM on January 8 [36 favorites]
Every time I hear some well-meaning progressive go deep on that "village of elders" bullshit, I think of the wrecked lives of young women, secularists and gay people that entails.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 2:24 PM on January 8 [36 favorites]
When my daughters were 10ish and 8ish, their mother's blind, 90-something grandmother came to live with us. She wanted to be useful, so we put her on washing the dishes, which was almost more trouble than it was worth because everything had to be stacked up on the counter ready for her to wash. But it was a definite plus when she volunteered to make the bread. Designated baker me couldn't be bothered to knead the dough for ten (eternal) minutes; but she knew you got a better product if you put in the effort, and that was true. She also taught the girls the rudiments of French in the same didactic, slightly shouty, way that The Nuns had taught her on a different continent in a different century. Qu'est-ce que c'est? C'est la table! Ditto how to make îles flottantes (blergh)
Once, shortly after coming to stay, she got up from the kitchen table with quiet dignity and left the room. Being gone rather a long time, one of the girls went out to investigate and found their Gt.granny handing herself round and round the hallway unable to find the door leading to the toilet. The younger lady graciously helped the older out of that predicament. Making sure knives and forks and water-glass were in reach and there was no Lego on the floor of our bare-foot house all became a new normal. Everyone became a better person through sharing and compromise.
Those Walrus ménages are cast rather more transactional than I think we experienced it.
posted by BobTheScientist at 2:34 PM on January 8 [19 favorites]
Once, shortly after coming to stay, she got up from the kitchen table with quiet dignity and left the room. Being gone rather a long time, one of the girls went out to investigate and found their Gt.granny handing herself round and round the hallway unable to find the door leading to the toilet. The younger lady graciously helped the older out of that predicament. Making sure knives and forks and water-glass were in reach and there was no Lego on the floor of our bare-foot house all became a new normal. Everyone became a better person through sharing and compromise.
Those Walrus ménages are cast rather more transactional than I think we experienced it.
posted by BobTheScientist at 2:34 PM on January 8 [19 favorites]
Multigenerational living ends up putting conservative, patriarchal elders in charge of kids and teens...
Because no one of child-bearing age is anything close to being conservative or patriarchal?
Ageist much?
posted by Thorzdad at 2:48 PM on January 8 [20 favorites]
Because no one of child-bearing age is anything close to being conservative or patriarchal?
Ageist much?
posted by Thorzdad at 2:48 PM on January 8 [20 favorites]
I think it would be easier for me to swing multi-generational living if the other generation was not my parents, i.e. an elderly room-mate/friend. Which, given the dire stories we hear about being queer in senior living facilities, is maybe something that should happen. An older gay room mate who can cook, take care of the place when I'm not around, and pays rent ... and I'm just describing a sugar daddy aren't I?
I mean I love my parents, and they love me, and we love each other more for living in different cities and seeing each other maybe once a month.
posted by selenized at 2:51 PM on January 8 [14 favorites]
I mean I love my parents, and they love me, and we love each other more for living in different cities and seeing each other maybe once a month.
posted by selenized at 2:51 PM on January 8 [14 favorites]
Yeah, I'm not so worried about my conservative parents messing with my kids (after all, they did everything they could to raise me as a good Republican Catholic, and it didn't work, so why should it work on my kids?)... I'm worried that having my parents AND my kids to take care of would ultimately mean leaving my career to become a full time caregiver. It's already barely possible to hang onto it, and I don't live with them (or with my mother in law, who needs even more care.)
I think "family should take care of the elderly" is a nice idea which ultimately has the same outcome as "mothers should take care of their children" -- women leaving the paid workforce en masse. Which leads to a lot more dependence on men, and a lot more opportunities for abuse of the women, children, AND elders, all of whom end up dependent on the single overstressed "man of the house."
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:15 PM on January 8 [34 favorites]
I think "family should take care of the elderly" is a nice idea which ultimately has the same outcome as "mothers should take care of their children" -- women leaving the paid workforce en masse. Which leads to a lot more dependence on men, and a lot more opportunities for abuse of the women, children, AND elders, all of whom end up dependent on the single overstressed "man of the house."
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:15 PM on January 8 [34 favorites]
the issue of the "single family home" being a consumerist, capitalist choice is an interesting point to raise. it certainly is, and probably seems like more of a choice to asian americans or other immigrant/second gen familiies--I think the Chinese mainland was still multi-family in the 90's? as opposed to gringos in america, where multi-family was a pushed out ...in the 40's? Definitely by the time Nixon and Breshnev were debating in 1959.
It is a consumerist choice. But it wasn't a 'scam' in the 50's and 60's, when our governments were competing with the USSR to show how modern we could be.
As those promises decline, it's the kind of financial choice that is a choice, but it's kind of like Jimmy Carter advocating that americans wear sweaters instead of burning coal, or ride bikes. it is counter-cultural. It happens because someone in the famliy is sick, and a woman in the family becomes a caretaker, or it's done with a lot of intent and consideration. see the debate around 'degrowth'
It's a much bigger kind of choice, it is a cultural choice, and i do think the (very sad) violence statistics bear out the fact that this 'choice' is counter cultural--it is stressful. Any multi generational choice is by definition cultural.
It other bit is a question--are immigrant americans, or nonwhite americans are probably more likely to have elders in a more dependent situation than the youngers, whereas most white american youngers are going to have a lot less means than their elders.
Given all of that, who is making the call on the living situation? That is going to affect a lot of how this choice goes down, and how it is managed.
(after all, they did everything they could to raise me as a good Republican Catholic, and it didn't work, so why should it work on my kids?)
right. I think living near us has allowed my parents to keep up with the times. If you're not checking in with them, they are just going to be seduced by the television--they are of the TV generation, after all, and have suffered greatly under the Zuckerberg "Pivot to Video." And they are going to have to deal with their granddaughter saying "Black Lives Matter" and "Protect Trans Kids". it breaks them down to earth, and gets them out of the television, just a bit.
posted by eustatic at 3:50 PM on January 8 [16 favorites]
It is a consumerist choice. But it wasn't a 'scam' in the 50's and 60's, when our governments were competing with the USSR to show how modern we could be.
As those promises decline, it's the kind of financial choice that is a choice, but it's kind of like Jimmy Carter advocating that americans wear sweaters instead of burning coal, or ride bikes. it is counter-cultural. It happens because someone in the famliy is sick, and a woman in the family becomes a caretaker, or it's done with a lot of intent and consideration. see the debate around 'degrowth'
It's a much bigger kind of choice, it is a cultural choice, and i do think the (very sad) violence statistics bear out the fact that this 'choice' is counter cultural--it is stressful. Any multi generational choice is by definition cultural.
It other bit is a question--are immigrant americans, or nonwhite americans are probably more likely to have elders in a more dependent situation than the youngers, whereas most white american youngers are going to have a lot less means than their elders.
Given all of that, who is making the call on the living situation? That is going to affect a lot of how this choice goes down, and how it is managed.
(after all, they did everything they could to raise me as a good Republican Catholic, and it didn't work, so why should it work on my kids?)
right. I think living near us has allowed my parents to keep up with the times. If you're not checking in with them, they are just going to be seduced by the television--they are of the TV generation, after all, and have suffered greatly under the Zuckerberg "Pivot to Video." And they are going to have to deal with their granddaughter saying "Black Lives Matter" and "Protect Trans Kids". it breaks them down to earth, and gets them out of the television, just a bit.
posted by eustatic at 3:50 PM on January 8 [16 favorites]
Does anyone here understand what the difference is between a multigenerational household and the "doubling up" that is seen as a part of the experience of the housing insecure and can involve family ties?
posted by Selena777 at 3:51 PM on January 8 [6 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 3:51 PM on January 8 [6 favorites]
I keep having Thoughts about living with my mother. I lived with my parents until I graduated university, then moved an ocean and continent away and happily lived alone for a dozen years until my father suddenly passed away in 2019. They were still living an ocean away but had been thinking about moving "back" to my hometown once my dad retired.
So my recently-widowed mother and I bought a house together and moved her back across the ocean to Hometown. We bought a place that had been retrofitted for the elderly couple who had been living in it -- our realtor said we could remove the ramps leading to the front door and large handles in the bathroom, but Mum jokingly-not-so-jokingly said that we might as well keep it since this was going to be her "forever home." And probably mine, too, at least for the next couple of decades. (And I say "we" bought a house but really it was my parents' retirement home budget that got us the house, but I'm now the one who helps pay most of the expenses. Yay, living that Millennial life by only owning a home due to a death in the family.)
I'm learning to phrase it as "my mother lives with me" and not "I live with my mother" when I meet someone new who doesn't know our situation. For some reason that makes it seem like I'm the one in control, and it's not that I never left home in the first place. Which shouldn't be an issue... but... it is...
I joke that I'm "never getting out of my mother's basement" because I had a bedroom in the basement growing up and once again, my bedroom is in the basement. But it's my basement, too -- my name is on the deed. I'm also in the basement because it's a large bedroom with a private bath, and I can still deal with stairs for longer than she will. It's also "my" space -- she never ventures down there. I can just tell her "I'm going to be downstairs for awhile" and we understand that I need some quiet me-time, it's nothing personal (it helps we're both deeply introverted).
I'm glad we have our ranch-style house because she will be able to stay there for much longer, using the ramps and the giant handles, and the only thing that's downstairs is the laundry, which I can take over when she's no longer able to handle stairs.
Maybe it's because I'm an only child, a happy spinster (which means this household will never truly be multi-generational since there will only be two generations), and have a good relationship with my mother, but I haven't minded it. Maybe it's because we've both become each other's emotional support, dealing with the death of a loved one, a big move, a global pandemic, a cancer diagnosis (she's fine now -- they caught it early enough that treatment worked!), and my multiple lay-offs thanks to covid and the currently terrible job market.
It also probably helps that I'm the daughter, not the son, since in so many cultures, the women are the caretakers and it's not unusual for them to carry the burden of aging parents. It's ridiculous that it has to be that way, but there it is. No one seems to give me much (if any) grief for moving in with my mother, and I can see that the tides are turning with the multi-generational living in the US. Still, I always feel like I need to explain our living arrangement is Because of Reasons.
posted by paisley sheep at 4:13 PM on January 8 [22 favorites]
So my recently-widowed mother and I bought a house together and moved her back across the ocean to Hometown. We bought a place that had been retrofitted for the elderly couple who had been living in it -- our realtor said we could remove the ramps leading to the front door and large handles in the bathroom, but Mum jokingly-not-so-jokingly said that we might as well keep it since this was going to be her "forever home." And probably mine, too, at least for the next couple of decades. (And I say "we" bought a house but really it was my parents' retirement home budget that got us the house, but I'm now the one who helps pay most of the expenses. Yay, living that Millennial life by only owning a home due to a death in the family.)
I'm learning to phrase it as "my mother lives with me" and not "I live with my mother" when I meet someone new who doesn't know our situation. For some reason that makes it seem like I'm the one in control, and it's not that I never left home in the first place. Which shouldn't be an issue... but... it is...
I joke that I'm "never getting out of my mother's basement" because I had a bedroom in the basement growing up and once again, my bedroom is in the basement. But it's my basement, too -- my name is on the deed. I'm also in the basement because it's a large bedroom with a private bath, and I can still deal with stairs for longer than she will. It's also "my" space -- she never ventures down there. I can just tell her "I'm going to be downstairs for awhile" and we understand that I need some quiet me-time, it's nothing personal (it helps we're both deeply introverted).
I'm glad we have our ranch-style house because she will be able to stay there for much longer, using the ramps and the giant handles, and the only thing that's downstairs is the laundry, which I can take over when she's no longer able to handle stairs.
Maybe it's because I'm an only child, a happy spinster (which means this household will never truly be multi-generational since there will only be two generations), and have a good relationship with my mother, but I haven't minded it. Maybe it's because we've both become each other's emotional support, dealing with the death of a loved one, a big move, a global pandemic, a cancer diagnosis (she's fine now -- they caught it early enough that treatment worked!), and my multiple lay-offs thanks to covid and the currently terrible job market.
It also probably helps that I'm the daughter, not the son, since in so many cultures, the women are the caretakers and it's not unusual for them to carry the burden of aging parents. It's ridiculous that it has to be that way, but there it is. No one seems to give me much (if any) grief for moving in with my mother, and I can see that the tides are turning with the multi-generational living in the US. Still, I always feel like I need to explain our living arrangement is Because of Reasons.
posted by paisley sheep at 4:13 PM on January 8 [22 favorites]
My adult kids moved in with me a year ago. I am not, uh, conservative or patriarchal - I consider myself an anarcho socialist although ok, I'm more conservative than my purely anarchist kid and maybe I am a democratic socialist as he accuses me of being - but, yes, I'm getting old. Not old enough or rich enough to retire, mind you, but old. Ish. I had my kids quite young. My house is most assuredly not set up for multi generational living or, in fact, any living for more than maybe two, possibly three people by middle class American standards. I moved into it thinking I would live there through my late middle age and old age alone or sometimes with my son. I had long since made peace with the fact that he would probably live with me on and off his whole life - reasons - but I wasn't expecting the other kid and then, her kid.
Well, hello housing crisis and childcare crisis and all the other crises: now my 1400 square foot 3 bedroom 1.5 bath* bungalow is home to three adults and a toddler. For most of the year it was five adults and a toddler but the two non family members have moved out for (good) Reasons. It's going to be better now they are gone but honestly it's been a fairly terrible year. Would not recommend. Still, I don't see it changing any time soon. Rent is so crazy high if you can even find anything and daycare? Daycare is out of reach, especially if you're paying market rent. We're hoping to get Toddler back into daycare when the contagion times slow down a bit - we were all sick as dogs for the entire fall and never again - but can we even find an opening? And then, full time in this area is $1500 a month and going up, so my single mom daughter is unlikely to be able to afford both rent and daycare.
We - I am trying to think of everything as "we" now, because I am single, my kids are now single and I have no wealth at all except this house, so that is what they will inherit - have looked at trying to buy a bigger house or a duplex or a triplex or adding a tiny house to the yard or , or, or, but unfortunately we just do not have the money. I have basically accepted that this is going to be the way it is going forward. It's not great and I wish there was a way we could come up with the money for the wonderful perfect triplex we looked at a month ago, but, well, there isn't. I would give my eyeteeth for two kitchens and my own shower or even to sit alone in what used to be my own living room again but instead, it's filled with toys and toddler detritus and the rest of my books are going to have to go into storage.
People say, oh well it's because you live on the Oregon coast**. Fact: I moved to Oregon and my kids followed me because we got priced out of North Carolina. The housing crisis is everywhere. Rents and daycare are insanely expensive everywhere. At least in Oregon you can make decent money and really, honestly, the cost of living is not in fact dramatically different.
So here we are. It's not the independent early old age I was hoping for and it's not the adulthood they were hoping for and the adjustments have not really been easy. It's been hard for me to move past seeing them as kids and treating them accordingly. It's been hard for them to stop bristling and feeling judged when I say anything that might be perceived as mildly critical. It's hard for all of us to do the dishes without arguing. There are mental health issues. Small children are a Lot. Nobody wants to walk the dog. But as difficult as it sometimes is at least I'm here to help with child care and, someday, they will be here to help with me care.
* It was 1200 square feet and 2 bedrooms until we converted the garage into a bedroom, bringing the .5 bath and its elderly singing pink toilet - it's vintage! - into the house proper. More or less. I live in the garage.
** dude, I do not live like, ON the coast. If you peek from the upper left corner of the main bedroom window you can see a 2" sliver of a bay but I live in a town. Which is near, but not on, the beach.
posted by mygothlaundry at 4:43 PM on January 8 [22 favorites]
Well, hello housing crisis and childcare crisis and all the other crises: now my 1400 square foot 3 bedroom 1.5 bath* bungalow is home to three adults and a toddler. For most of the year it was five adults and a toddler but the two non family members have moved out for (good) Reasons. It's going to be better now they are gone but honestly it's been a fairly terrible year. Would not recommend. Still, I don't see it changing any time soon. Rent is so crazy high if you can even find anything and daycare? Daycare is out of reach, especially if you're paying market rent. We're hoping to get Toddler back into daycare when the contagion times slow down a bit - we were all sick as dogs for the entire fall and never again - but can we even find an opening? And then, full time in this area is $1500 a month and going up, so my single mom daughter is unlikely to be able to afford both rent and daycare.
We - I am trying to think of everything as "we" now, because I am single, my kids are now single and I have no wealth at all except this house, so that is what they will inherit - have looked at trying to buy a bigger house or a duplex or a triplex or adding a tiny house to the yard or , or, or, but unfortunately we just do not have the money. I have basically accepted that this is going to be the way it is going forward. It's not great and I wish there was a way we could come up with the money for the wonderful perfect triplex we looked at a month ago, but, well, there isn't. I would give my eyeteeth for two kitchens and my own shower or even to sit alone in what used to be my own living room again but instead, it's filled with toys and toddler detritus and the rest of my books are going to have to go into storage.
People say, oh well it's because you live on the Oregon coast**. Fact: I moved to Oregon and my kids followed me because we got priced out of North Carolina. The housing crisis is everywhere. Rents and daycare are insanely expensive everywhere. At least in Oregon you can make decent money and really, honestly, the cost of living is not in fact dramatically different.
So here we are. It's not the independent early old age I was hoping for and it's not the adulthood they were hoping for and the adjustments have not really been easy. It's been hard for me to move past seeing them as kids and treating them accordingly. It's been hard for them to stop bristling and feeling judged when I say anything that might be perceived as mildly critical. It's hard for all of us to do the dishes without arguing. There are mental health issues. Small children are a Lot. Nobody wants to walk the dog. But as difficult as it sometimes is at least I'm here to help with child care and, someday, they will be here to help with me care.
* It was 1200 square feet and 2 bedrooms until we converted the garage into a bedroom, bringing the .5 bath and its elderly singing pink toilet - it's vintage! - into the house proper. More or less. I live in the garage.
** dude, I do not live like, ON the coast. If you peek from the upper left corner of the main bedroom window you can see a 2" sliver of a bay but I live in a town. Which is near, but not on, the beach.
posted by mygothlaundry at 4:43 PM on January 8 [22 favorites]
Multigenerational living ends up putting conservative, patriarchal elders in charge of kids and teens, which way too often means imposing shitty religious beliefs, patriarchy and homophobia upon those kids and teens.
Um, may I introduce you to my family. My MIL lives with us and watches Ru Paul’s Drag race with my kids, celebrates Pride, and occasionally reminds my husband I’m bisexual. (Not that he needs the reminder but like…she joyfully embraces it. And I’m married to her son.)
Maybe more importantly, although we live together and eat dinner together, she does not have disciplinary say (or that kind of relationship) with my kids. When they were a bit younger, the age between after school daycare and true teenager age), she did watch them some between school and dinner but although we asked them to listen to her (don’t put foil in the microwave), it’s just…clear who are the parents and who’s not. She also doesn’t tell me or my husband what to do. And we don’t tell her what to do. Yet.
Where I do think it’s a bit fraught is that she is starting to need more care and is showing signs of dementia. And that does extend my caregiving out well beyond empty nest, and lots will fall to me as the lower earner. But we’d have to involved even at a distance.
The benefits to our family are so large. I got a person in my corner. My kids have had a third safe place to land. And even more…as boys, they have seen both my husband and I care for his mother and they do too, offering to carry her books downstairs or checking on her when she’s feeling poorly or designing meals (they help cook, the 13 year old just a bit and the 18 year old about once a week) that are diabetic friendly, while still being able to be kids in relative position to us, their parents. It’s been a real joy even if I see tough times on the horizon.
We’re family.
For the question around “fairness” to the other parents…it’s not fair. But I wouldn’t be able to live with my parents, for lots of reasons, and they also have a lot of means to pay for care. I’ll still be involved - most of the year they live 25 minutes away. But just like kids, parents are all different.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:29 PM on January 8 [22 favorites]
Um, may I introduce you to my family. My MIL lives with us and watches Ru Paul’s Drag race with my kids, celebrates Pride, and occasionally reminds my husband I’m bisexual. (Not that he needs the reminder but like…she joyfully embraces it. And I’m married to her son.)
Maybe more importantly, although we live together and eat dinner together, she does not have disciplinary say (or that kind of relationship) with my kids. When they were a bit younger, the age between after school daycare and true teenager age), she did watch them some between school and dinner but although we asked them to listen to her (don’t put foil in the microwave), it’s just…clear who are the parents and who’s not. She also doesn’t tell me or my husband what to do. And we don’t tell her what to do. Yet.
Where I do think it’s a bit fraught is that she is starting to need more care and is showing signs of dementia. And that does extend my caregiving out well beyond empty nest, and lots will fall to me as the lower earner. But we’d have to involved even at a distance.
The benefits to our family are so large. I got a person in my corner. My kids have had a third safe place to land. And even more…as boys, they have seen both my husband and I care for his mother and they do too, offering to carry her books downstairs or checking on her when she’s feeling poorly or designing meals (they help cook, the 13 year old just a bit and the 18 year old about once a week) that are diabetic friendly, while still being able to be kids in relative position to us, their parents. It’s been a real joy even if I see tough times on the horizon.
We’re family.
For the question around “fairness” to the other parents…it’s not fair. But I wouldn’t be able to live with my parents, for lots of reasons, and they also have a lot of means to pay for care. I’ll still be involved - most of the year they live 25 minutes away. But just like kids, parents are all different.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:29 PM on January 8 [22 favorites]
As an ethnic Chinese immigrant family (migrated from China to Singapore to Malaysia to Australia) it's funny that time moves in a circle. My grandfather built a traditional multi-generational clan home where he envisioned his 4 sons and their families living with him. His daughters were expected to live at their husbands' family clan homes, see. So his house had 5 separate living areas + bedroom pairs for each one, for a total of 10 bedrooms. Then my parents "rebelled" against him and wanted to live out on their own, which made him very upset, because he said my parents were poisoned by western culture and education. I did love that gigantic house as a kid though.
Anyway I migrated to Australia, built a 5 bedroom home, then invited my parents and parents in laws to live with me, so that's sort of what is happening now. Why would we split everyone out into 3 different properties and have to go through all the trouble of upkeeping 3 houses and travelling between them. We could rent the other two properties out instead! And hey there's a major housing crisis / shortage right now, so it's the ethical thing to do as well.
Now they're living with me I regret not going to the full multi-generational clan home route and building 3 separate living areas with two attached bedrooms each... lol.
Yes, interpersonal relationships and living with other people is challenging, and you need to be very good at negotiating, setting boundaries, you lose privacy but gain in many other ways as well. I think it's very much like middle management at a large corporation, you have to care but also not care about your feelings and other people's feelings in order to get a fair outcome for everyone. It's a problem of a democracy at a micro scale: dictators just rule by fiat, while being a leader of a democracy and making sure everyone needs are heard and validated is harder.
posted by xdvesper at 5:35 PM on January 8 [17 favorites]
Anyway I migrated to Australia, built a 5 bedroom home, then invited my parents and parents in laws to live with me, so that's sort of what is happening now. Why would we split everyone out into 3 different properties and have to go through all the trouble of upkeeping 3 houses and travelling between them. We could rent the other two properties out instead! And hey there's a major housing crisis / shortage right now, so it's the ethical thing to do as well.
Now they're living with me I regret not going to the full multi-generational clan home route and building 3 separate living areas with two attached bedrooms each... lol.
Yes, interpersonal relationships and living with other people is challenging, and you need to be very good at negotiating, setting boundaries, you lose privacy but gain in many other ways as well. I think it's very much like middle management at a large corporation, you have to care but also not care about your feelings and other people's feelings in order to get a fair outcome for everyone. It's a problem of a democracy at a micro scale: dictators just rule by fiat, while being a leader of a democracy and making sure everyone needs are heard and validated is harder.
posted by xdvesper at 5:35 PM on January 8 [17 favorites]
Multigenerational living systematically exploits women and provides unreciprocated labor and care, ready made community, and worst of all unearned power to the men. Speaking from direct personal experience of having been born in a culture where multigenerational living is the norm: there is no women's emancipation without the nuclear family.
Unless I guess we're talking about women-only multigenerational groups. I don't doubt that it's greatly beneficial to live with older women. Notice how nobody is pining for their dad's help with childcare. Notice how nobody's 90 yr old blind great uncle is making bread for the whole household.
Count me and my children out of a life of tending to entitled men's needs without anything resembling reciprocity from the men towards the women. We as a society are absolutely not in a place where men can be trusted to provide care to women and center women's needs consistently.
posted by MiraK at 6:05 PM on January 8 [29 favorites]
Unless I guess we're talking about women-only multigenerational groups. I don't doubt that it's greatly beneficial to live with older women. Notice how nobody is pining for their dad's help with childcare. Notice how nobody's 90 yr old blind great uncle is making bread for the whole household.
Count me and my children out of a life of tending to entitled men's needs without anything resembling reciprocity from the men towards the women. We as a society are absolutely not in a place where men can be trusted to provide care to women and center women's needs consistently.
posted by MiraK at 6:05 PM on January 8 [29 favorites]
In fact I think when people talk about how great and useful and convenient multigenerational living is in the context of blood family, what they actually mean is that it's great for younger generations to live with female elders. Let's stop erasing that specificity when we talk about this subject.
posted by MiraK at 6:13 PM on January 8 [21 favorites]
posted by MiraK at 6:13 PM on January 8 [21 favorites]
My MIL lives with us and watches Ru Paul’s Drag race with my kids, celebrates Pride, and occasionally reminds my husband I’m bisexual.
Parents don't have to be conservative to be shit to live with. My mom does all of the above, super lefty, crunchy granola when I was a kid, but also this is her:
Sometimes people use "respect" to mean "treating someone like a person" and sometimes they use "respect" to mean "treating someone like an authority" and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say "if you won't respect me I won't respect you" and they mean "if you won't treat me like an authority I won't treat you like a person" and they think they're being fair but they aren't, and it's not okay.
Fuck that. We shouldn't be pushing people to live with others that are unsafe. That's an asshole problem, not a generational problem, but whenever it multigenerational living comes up I think of what hell it would be to live with. (And I'm lucky because my dad is actually a stable rational person I could see myself living with. Many people have 0 good parents and 100% shit parents, this kind of arrangement with family is not really open to them.)
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:23 PM on January 8 [5 favorites]
Parents don't have to be conservative to be shit to live with. My mom does all of the above, super lefty, crunchy granola when I was a kid, but also this is her:
Sometimes people use "respect" to mean "treating someone like a person" and sometimes they use "respect" to mean "treating someone like an authority" and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say "if you won't respect me I won't respect you" and they mean "if you won't treat me like an authority I won't treat you like a person" and they think they're being fair but they aren't, and it's not okay.
Fuck that. We shouldn't be pushing people to live with others that are unsafe. That's an asshole problem, not a generational problem, but whenever it multigenerational living comes up I think of what hell it would be to live with. (And I'm lucky because my dad is actually a stable rational person I could see myself living with. Many people have 0 good parents and 100% shit parents, this kind of arrangement with family is not really open to them.)
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:23 PM on January 8 [5 favorites]
My mother lives about 500m from my house and my aunt lived 500m in the other direction before she went into the nursing home. My mother's comment, "Let's just get one thing straight. I NEVER want to live under the same roof as you and your madcap children."
As an only child, I did appreciate that clarification, as it does cut both ways.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 8:56 PM on January 8 [4 favorites]
As an only child, I did appreciate that clarification, as it does cut both ways.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 8:56 PM on January 8 [4 favorites]
My dad grew up next door to his grandparents and several other houses of family (my great grandparents built the neighborhood on a farm). I grew up with my grandmother living with us (age and frailty) and one sister was a newborn when I was in high school (adoption). Family has always been close. Now that my other sister and her wife have a baby and another on the way, my parents have, just this month, moved a few houses away from them for childcare and socialization. We’re probably going to do the same in a couple of years. Every home we’ve gotten has a room for my wife’s aging aunt in it, when she wants or needs to move in. I get some of the broader issues people have raised around cultural enforcement and women’s labor, but at least for my sister, my wife, and me, we’ve missed living with and around family and are actively working to be closer post-pandemic. Having spent a lot of my career in senior living, I also view it as the only realistic economic choice for aging for a lot of my family. Thank goodness I mostly like them, because I was always going to be caring for them, and then eventually being cared for.
posted by skookumsaurus rex at 9:37 PM on January 8 [2 favorites]
posted by skookumsaurus rex at 9:37 PM on January 8 [2 favorites]
A family friend has built a family compound that sounds similar to xdvesper's granddad's - she got a piece of land cheap, her husband is handy, and over the years they've added houses for each child/spouse pair. They had more children than the norm in Poland, all daughters, and last I heard she's up to 20 grandchildren, ages 18 years to 6 months, running around with their hobby farm animals. That arrangement always looked to me as exceedingly supportive for the daughters, with adults not currently in work exchanging babysitting responsibilities, but with enough privacy. Rare and specific to have it be so optimised, mostly because they're all architects in Poland's post communism construction boom.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 1:38 AM on January 9 [5 favorites]
posted by I claim sanctuary at 1:38 AM on January 9 [5 favorites]
We shouldn't be pushing people to live with others that are unsafe.
Agreed but…it’s not the norm? If anything’s pushing people, it’s the housing crisis (which is extremely real in Canada, esp Vancouver as in the article.) that’s the reason I anticipate my kids living with us for quite a while.
Socially, when we invited my MIL to come live with us we got more negativity than anything else. The assumption was that we wouldn’t get along. It’s been over 8 years now.
She has a sort-of in-law suite downstairs - bedroom, kitchen, bathroom but we kept the rec room as shared space. That definitely helps some.
The women’s labour issue is real but it’s kinda real wherever people live. My dad needs the most care and when he’s not in Florida I spend time with him to give my mum a break. I don’t see that changing. My sister lives in Maryland.
I noticed that the choices in the piece were that the son and his wife wanted a fancier neighborhood and better schools. I find that both really understandable but also - maybe a little bit of a fraught choice.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:22 AM on January 9 [4 favorites]
Agreed but…it’s not the norm? If anything’s pushing people, it’s the housing crisis (which is extremely real in Canada, esp Vancouver as in the article.) that’s the reason I anticipate my kids living with us for quite a while.
Socially, when we invited my MIL to come live with us we got more negativity than anything else. The assumption was that we wouldn’t get along. It’s been over 8 years now.
She has a sort-of in-law suite downstairs - bedroom, kitchen, bathroom but we kept the rec room as shared space. That definitely helps some.
The women’s labour issue is real but it’s kinda real wherever people live. My dad needs the most care and when he’s not in Florida I spend time with him to give my mum a break. I don’t see that changing. My sister lives in Maryland.
I noticed that the choices in the piece were that the son and his wife wanted a fancier neighborhood and better schools. I find that both really understandable but also - maybe a little bit of a fraught choice.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:22 AM on January 9 [4 favorites]
I am sympathetic to some of the more negative takes in this thread, but given how much housing inequity and the erosion of the middle class has advanced in North America in my lifetime, I fail to see how you avoid more multigenerational family households. In my area housing and childcare has become so ludicriously expensive it has become very common for my peers to have one or more of their parents living with them, since families cannot swing both mortgage payments and daycare fees even with two incomes. And those are the "professional", upper middle class-coded families. You have to have a number of very significant privileges to live completely independent of family support in North America, or you face considerable financial risk.
I am not suggesting we criticize or shame people who cannot or will not live with family because of significant safety issues. Everybody has to make that choice on their own. And I'm certain people entering into "found families" or roommate / housemate situations will increase too.
However, to push back on some of the assumptions elsewhere in this thread, it is far more common for close blood relations to enter into these arrangements, and most people are able to make peace with relatives whose viewpoints and attitudes differ from them, because they don't really have a choice. Even though we can all think of examples where this social contract does not work, the social pressure on families to support and provide for each is quite strong, and if these economic trends continue, it will become stronger. Nobody wants to see their aged parents or young children suffer from housing instability or financial disaster. For most people, the solution is going to involve some type of shared living support. Keep in mind before the invention of the modern welfare state and social safety net, almost everyone depended on their families for support when they could not work - or they faced literal starvation and exposure.
posted by fortitude25 at 6:44 AM on January 9 [6 favorites]
I am not suggesting we criticize or shame people who cannot or will not live with family because of significant safety issues. Everybody has to make that choice on their own. And I'm certain people entering into "found families" or roommate / housemate situations will increase too.
However, to push back on some of the assumptions elsewhere in this thread, it is far more common for close blood relations to enter into these arrangements, and most people are able to make peace with relatives whose viewpoints and attitudes differ from them, because they don't really have a choice. Even though we can all think of examples where this social contract does not work, the social pressure on families to support and provide for each is quite strong, and if these economic trends continue, it will become stronger. Nobody wants to see their aged parents or young children suffer from housing instability or financial disaster. For most people, the solution is going to involve some type of shared living support. Keep in mind before the invention of the modern welfare state and social safety net, almost everyone depended on their families for support when they could not work - or they faced literal starvation and exposure.
posted by fortitude25 at 6:44 AM on January 9 [6 favorites]
> The women’s labour issue is real but it’s kinda real wherever people live.
I'm not saying it's easy, but in nuclear families there's much greater impetus (and capacity) to break up and opt out of the trap of being obligated to provide unreciprocated labor. There's also a greater ability to recognize that the setup is unequal, which is fundamental. I can't even count the number of women I know who have gotten divorced in midlife because the wives got sick and the husbands ignored them.. so the wives were able to say, "oh, shit, this is totally unsustainable," and leave. And that is all it takes to fix this inequality. Usually these women already have, or eventually build, mutually supportive relationships with other women. They escape exploitation. This is not something to sneeze at.
In multigenerational living set ups, there's always enough women around to pick up the slack. Sick women don't go uncared for despite men's failure to reciprocate care, so there's less visibility of men's mooching, and less urgency for women to get out of unequal setups. Nothing to light a fire under any woman's ass to GTFO of a system that is exploiting her. Women get stuck due to a sense of obligation to reciprocate what the female members of the family group have done for them, if nothing else, and end up staying with the family group that exploits women, precisely because the bonds are so strong and the pressures not to disrupt it are so much greater.
So no, I don't think it's the same everywhere. Multigenerational living has systematic forces built in which force women to buy into their own exploitation.
posted by MiraK at 6:53 AM on January 9 [9 favorites]
I'm not saying it's easy, but in nuclear families there's much greater impetus (and capacity) to break up and opt out of the trap of being obligated to provide unreciprocated labor. There's also a greater ability to recognize that the setup is unequal, which is fundamental. I can't even count the number of women I know who have gotten divorced in midlife because the wives got sick and the husbands ignored them.. so the wives were able to say, "oh, shit, this is totally unsustainable," and leave. And that is all it takes to fix this inequality. Usually these women already have, or eventually build, mutually supportive relationships with other women. They escape exploitation. This is not something to sneeze at.
In multigenerational living set ups, there's always enough women around to pick up the slack. Sick women don't go uncared for despite men's failure to reciprocate care, so there's less visibility of men's mooching, and less urgency for women to get out of unequal setups. Nothing to light a fire under any woman's ass to GTFO of a system that is exploiting her. Women get stuck due to a sense of obligation to reciprocate what the female members of the family group have done for them, if nothing else, and end up staying with the family group that exploits women, precisely because the bonds are so strong and the pressures not to disrupt it are so much greater.
So no, I don't think it's the same everywhere. Multigenerational living has systematic forces built in which force women to buy into their own exploitation.
posted by MiraK at 6:53 AM on January 9 [9 favorites]
I'm not saying it's easy, but in nuclear families there's much greater impetus (and capacity) to break up and opt out of the trap of being obligated to provide unreciprocated labor
The vast majority of people do not view their families as a system for maximizing unreciprocated labor and never will. They view them as a haven in a heartless world. We had a couple of people in my extended family choose the type of path where they remained single, without children, and with minimal connections to their blood relations. They spent the last part of their lives in nursing homes, having outlived their friends, in poor health, surrounded by people they did not know and were only there because they were paid to be there, except for the distant family (my branch) that remembered to visit and communicate with them. They may have maximized their personal satisfaction in the short term, but in the long run, they regretted burning so many bridges with their relations.
posted by fortitude25 at 7:15 AM on January 9 [8 favorites]
The vast majority of people do not view their families as a system for maximizing unreciprocated labor and never will. They view them as a haven in a heartless world. We had a couple of people in my extended family choose the type of path where they remained single, without children, and with minimal connections to their blood relations. They spent the last part of their lives in nursing homes, having outlived their friends, in poor health, surrounded by people they did not know and were only there because they were paid to be there, except for the distant family (my branch) that remembered to visit and communicate with them. They may have maximized their personal satisfaction in the short term, but in the long run, they regretted burning so many bridges with their relations.
posted by fortitude25 at 7:15 AM on January 9 [8 favorites]
I've mentioned that my mom is in the early stages of Alzheimer's and can currently live independently, but my BIL is making plans turn a gigantic playroom in their house to a MIL suite when the time comes. My sister will be the primary caretaker for our mom as I live in another country. Sis is pushing hard to get Mom to move in sooner, but she's sticking to her guns. (Shepherd likes to say that the women in my family are stubborn as heck; he's right!) But in the US, I don't know that my sister's family wouldn't have any other choice but to have Mom live with them. Any sort of external care is incredibly expensive and despite their decent income (they also have two school age kids), it might not be financially possible to move Mom anywhere to be cared for in the future.
posted by Kitteh at 7:31 AM on January 9 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 7:31 AM on January 9 [2 favorites]
> The vast majority of people do not view their families as a system for maximizing unreciprocated labor and never will. They view them as a haven in a heartless world.
Oh, most definitely. I'm just talking about the fact that men in families do not contribute to the creation of said haven in terms of essential caregiving labor (which is by far the largest piece of family labor over a lifetime), and many women are thankfully opting out of providing one-sided havens to men, choosing instead to focus on their community and family networks who are capable of mutuality. In general women tend to have quite robust community networks throughout life.
It is quite overwhelmingly men who opt out of this labor and thus find themselves isolated and alone and without support at the end of their lives. It is quite an epidemic.
> They spent the last part of their lives in nursing homes, having outlived their friends, in poor health, surrounded by people they did not know and were only there because they were paid to be there, except for the distant family (my branch) that remembered to visit and communicate with them.
That is a tragedy. I'm sorry that happened to them. I wish they had invested in mutually caring relationships during their lifetime to reduce the chances of this happening. I have to wonder: those distant family members who bothered to visit were women, right?
posted by MiraK at 8:00 AM on January 9 [2 favorites]
Oh, most definitely. I'm just talking about the fact that men in families do not contribute to the creation of said haven in terms of essential caregiving labor (which is by far the largest piece of family labor over a lifetime), and many women are thankfully opting out of providing one-sided havens to men, choosing instead to focus on their community and family networks who are capable of mutuality. In general women tend to have quite robust community networks throughout life.
It is quite overwhelmingly men who opt out of this labor and thus find themselves isolated and alone and without support at the end of their lives. It is quite an epidemic.
> They spent the last part of their lives in nursing homes, having outlived their friends, in poor health, surrounded by people they did not know and were only there because they were paid to be there, except for the distant family (my branch) that remembered to visit and communicate with them.
That is a tragedy. I'm sorry that happened to them. I wish they had invested in mutually caring relationships during their lifetime to reduce the chances of this happening. I have to wonder: those distant family members who bothered to visit were women, right?
posted by MiraK at 8:00 AM on January 9 [2 favorites]
The vast majority of people do not view their families as a system for maximizing unreciprocated labor and never will.
Yeah…this is where I fall, even if I do think the goal is for men to be equally caring and for both jobs to allow for family needs and social safety nets, for everyone.
But my experience in caregiving, especially as I get older, is that while it is hard and it is labour, and although my spouse is great my career did take more hits than his and that became self-perpetuating, and it is sometimes very annoying and tiring…what I have gained is quite a lot. Just not money and power. (Both of which I support women having!)
With my MIL I really have gained a relation with whom I have the relationship I wish I could with my mother, and in turn I’ve been able to see my mother a bit more clearly. (I love her but she has a mental illness and was emotionally abusive, still is sometimes.) With my kids, as my oldest in particular starts to become an adult, I also just…so much joy, all through. I’ve also grown my own capacities. The caregiving is not always a net negative. It can be. It’s very specific.
But like I said…one huge benefit is that my sons are watching their dad and me and also participating and I think it is growing their caregiving muscles. I hope these string family experiences give them the base for either independence or interdependence. I don’t expect them to make my choices later, but I do hope they know they have a full range of them.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:01 AM on January 9 [3 favorites]
Yeah…this is where I fall, even if I do think the goal is for men to be equally caring and for both jobs to allow for family needs and social safety nets, for everyone.
But my experience in caregiving, especially as I get older, is that while it is hard and it is labour, and although my spouse is great my career did take more hits than his and that became self-perpetuating, and it is sometimes very annoying and tiring…what I have gained is quite a lot. Just not money and power. (Both of which I support women having!)
With my MIL I really have gained a relation with whom I have the relationship I wish I could with my mother, and in turn I’ve been able to see my mother a bit more clearly. (I love her but she has a mental illness and was emotionally abusive, still is sometimes.) With my kids, as my oldest in particular starts to become an adult, I also just…so much joy, all through. I’ve also grown my own capacities. The caregiving is not always a net negative. It can be. It’s very specific.
But like I said…one huge benefit is that my sons are watching their dad and me and also participating and I think it is growing their caregiving muscles. I hope these string family experiences give them the base for either independence or interdependence. I don’t expect them to make my choices later, but I do hope they know they have a full range of them.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:01 AM on January 9 [3 favorites]
I have to wonder: those distant family members who bothered to visit were women, right?
No. It was my brother and I - single men in their early twenties, visiting our elderly great-aunts. We lived nearby for college and would usually go over for lunch and visit on a Saturday. It was drilled into our head by our parents and family: be there for your elders.
posted by fortitude25 at 8:24 AM on January 9 [7 favorites]
No. It was my brother and I - single men in their early twenties, visiting our elderly great-aunts. We lived nearby for college and would usually go over for lunch and visit on a Saturday. It was drilled into our head by our parents and family: be there for your elders.
posted by fortitude25 at 8:24 AM on January 9 [7 favorites]
They may have maximized their personal satisfaction in the short term, but in the long run, they regretted burning so many bridges with their relations.
This is such a fancy way of scolding people for being too selfish to have kids lol.
Look, I get that you don't specifically (necessarily) mean that; obviously in your personal case I have no idea how or why those relatives burned their bridges. Certainly I had older relatives who estranged themselves from even their own children, as well as everyone else, through a variety of cruelties and such.
But there are also a number of ways in which this actually just illustrates MiraK's point: why DIDN'T anyone else bother to be there for their elders? Well, in part, because women are expected to give care work, not receive it. Not explicitly, it's just that this is what our society models. A woman with no children, no spouse, a woman without designated care recipients...well, what even IS she? A nothing, mostly forgotten.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:09 AM on January 9 [12 favorites]
This is such a fancy way of scolding people for being too selfish to have kids lol.
Look, I get that you don't specifically (necessarily) mean that; obviously in your personal case I have no idea how or why those relatives burned their bridges. Certainly I had older relatives who estranged themselves from even their own children, as well as everyone else, through a variety of cruelties and such.
But there are also a number of ways in which this actually just illustrates MiraK's point: why DIDN'T anyone else bother to be there for their elders? Well, in part, because women are expected to give care work, not receive it. Not explicitly, it's just that this is what our society models. A woman with no children, no spouse, a woman without designated care recipients...well, what even IS she? A nothing, mostly forgotten.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:09 AM on January 9 [12 favorites]
My nearest elders are men like those MiraK describes: patriarchal and entitled. I don't plan to abandon them, but would much prefer to help from the safety of my own home. My generation is currently constrained by job markets; the next generation is far too young to make housing decisions. Plus: I love living alone.
I'm choosing personal satisfaction over maximizing family cohesiveness for a span of maybe 40-50 years, which is not a bad run. And it doesn't feel right to pin expectations on someone currently in diapers. (Hopefully if I do end up in a nursing home, I'll still think it was all worthwhile, but who knows.)
posted by mersen at 10:30 AM on January 9 [2 favorites]
I'm choosing personal satisfaction over maximizing family cohesiveness for a span of maybe 40-50 years, which is not a bad run. And it doesn't feel right to pin expectations on someone currently in diapers. (Hopefully if I do end up in a nursing home, I'll still think it was all worthwhile, but who knows.)
posted by mersen at 10:30 AM on January 9 [2 favorites]
> > They may have maximized their personal satisfaction in the short term, but in the long run, they regretted burning so many bridges with their relations.
> This is such a fancy way of scolding people for being too selfish to have kids lol.
Haha that sentence surprised the heck out of me for a whole other reason too: in my comments here I emphasize the immense importance of making sure we build and maintain strong networks of mutually caring relationships... and I repeatedly expressed anger and contempt for people who focus on maximizing their personal satisfaction over working at mutually caring relationships. What a topsy-turvy interpretation it is to read that as a manifesto in support of bridge-burning, estrangement, and self-centered lifestyles.
I guess it's kind of the same logic as people who complain about "The Paradox Of Tolerance" when we say let's leave bigots out of groups where inclusiveness is a priority. Here I'm saying let's leave selfish assholes out of groups where mutual caregiving is a priority, and to certain types of people this sounds like *we* are the selfish ones.
posted by MiraK at 10:33 AM on January 9 [4 favorites]
> This is such a fancy way of scolding people for being too selfish to have kids lol.
Haha that sentence surprised the heck out of me for a whole other reason too: in my comments here I emphasize the immense importance of making sure we build and maintain strong networks of mutually caring relationships... and I repeatedly expressed anger and contempt for people who focus on maximizing their personal satisfaction over working at mutually caring relationships. What a topsy-turvy interpretation it is to read that as a manifesto in support of bridge-burning, estrangement, and self-centered lifestyles.
I guess it's kind of the same logic as people who complain about "The Paradox Of Tolerance" when we say let's leave bigots out of groups where inclusiveness is a priority. Here I'm saying let's leave selfish assholes out of groups where mutual caregiving is a priority, and to certain types of people this sounds like *we* are the selfish ones.
posted by MiraK at 10:33 AM on January 9 [4 favorites]
Wow, what a powerful essay - thanks so much for sharing it, Kitteh.
I’m the eldest child, only daughter, and live in the same metro area as my boomer parents (my siblings live on opposite coasts). I actively dread the point at which my aging parents’ care will be my responsibility. There were a couple years of cancer treatment where I had to step up for my mom while my dad showed his true colors, and I will never be able to unsee the shit that I saw then. Being able to distance myself from them for the first years of the pandemic was so great, and their reactions to me setting new boundaries has been so eye-opening. I actually wrote a letter to my father like the author of that essay, and while I technically received an apology, it was followed by excuses and “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks” bullshit. The patriarchy and filial piety can go fuck itself.
posted by Maarika at 11:24 AM on January 9 [3 favorites]
I’m the eldest child, only daughter, and live in the same metro area as my boomer parents (my siblings live on opposite coasts). I actively dread the point at which my aging parents’ care will be my responsibility. There were a couple years of cancer treatment where I had to step up for my mom while my dad showed his true colors, and I will never be able to unsee the shit that I saw then. Being able to distance myself from them for the first years of the pandemic was so great, and their reactions to me setting new boundaries has been so eye-opening. I actually wrote a letter to my father like the author of that essay, and while I technically received an apology, it was followed by excuses and “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks” bullshit. The patriarchy and filial piety can go fuck itself.
posted by Maarika at 11:24 AM on January 9 [3 favorites]
My wife's family lives in southern CA nearish to the beach, which has been expensive for a long time, so they have had a multi-generational household thing going on for about 40 years now. My family spends about 3 months a year there taking care of them, so even though I don't officially live there, I count for that as well. Before we took over, her oldest daughter had just moved out, into her husband's mom's home instead, but they took it over and now are single-generational.
A shiftless son-in-law also occasionally lives there, but it really depends on the year.
I see all the problems people are mentioning (MAGA control of the tv) tight quarters, but there are major plusses as well - kids getting to really know grandma & grandpa, etc. Caring for someone full-time or even part time is like having a 2nd job. Appointments, health considerations, cooking for a bunch of extra people - it adds to the workload.
My oldest sister also moved back in with our parents when her husband was dieing from alcohol induced liver failure, but my parents expected her to act like a child again, be there at the dinner table at 7:00pm (etc, whatever), that drinking that much was a bad idea, and it just didn't work out and soured their relationship a bit. She moved out as soon as her husband died and she could get a new place.
I think expectations have to be right, and people need a bit of space to get away now and then again.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:41 AM on January 9 [1 favorite]
A shiftless son-in-law also occasionally lives there, but it really depends on the year.
I see all the problems people are mentioning (MAGA control of the tv) tight quarters, but there are major plusses as well - kids getting to really know grandma & grandpa, etc. Caring for someone full-time or even part time is like having a 2nd job. Appointments, health considerations, cooking for a bunch of extra people - it adds to the workload.
My oldest sister also moved back in with our parents when her husband was dieing from alcohol induced liver failure, but my parents expected her to act like a child again, be there at the dinner table at 7:00pm (etc, whatever), that drinking that much was a bad idea, and it just didn't work out and soured their relationship a bit. She moved out as soon as her husband died and she could get a new place.
I think expectations have to be right, and people need a bit of space to get away now and then again.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:41 AM on January 9 [1 favorite]
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posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:23 PM on January 8 [2 favorites]