Does that mean all music is good now? Is nothing tacky?
May 9, 2024 4:51 AM Subscribe
How did Creed, the most hated band of the 1990s, become so beloved—and even cool? [Luke Winkie] sailed the seas with thousands of fellow lunatics to find out.
“I think it started as a joke. The songs were good, but there was definitely a feeling of, like, Yeah, Creed!” he tells me. “But then, next thing you know, you find yourself in your car, alone, deciding to put on Creed.”
“I hated Creed. I thought they were terrible,” says Mike Hobey, who, at 28, is the oldest of the posse and therefore the one who possesses the clearest recollection of Creed’s long, strange journey toward absolution. “But then I started listening to them ironically. And I was like, Oh, shit, I like them now.”
no, no, your favourite band still sucks, don't worry, that is part of the human condition.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:05 AM on May 9 [12 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:05 AM on May 9 [12 favorites]
Now that Jimmy Buffett is dead, someone needs to perform for drunk straight white cruise ship people, I guess.
posted by rikschell at 5:12 AM on May 9 [15 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 5:12 AM on May 9 [15 favorites]
They're so popular their new tour is in the middle of the ocean?
posted by Brachinus at 5:16 AM on May 9 [10 favorites]
posted by Brachinus at 5:16 AM on May 9 [10 favorites]
Look, I have a substantial collection of Jethro Tull albums. So understand I am coming from a place of empathy when I tell you Creed will never be cool.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 5:17 AM on May 9 [31 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 5:17 AM on May 9 [31 favorites]
I'm exactly in the demographic this is aimed at, and I'm too old to care about things being cool. I'm not too old to listen to "Higher" though, so I'm doing that.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:30 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:30 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
Leaving aside any judgment about their music, Creed is like any AOR-ish rock band whose fans evolved from deeply uncool teenagers into deeply uncool adults with disposable incomes: They're getting their 20-year payout in the form of audiences who can afford VIP concert packages and cruises. And that's fine. Let people have their fun.
(The edgy bands with the cool kids fans? Same progression. What are Pixies tickets going for these days, I ask you)
posted by jscalzi at 5:35 AM on May 9 [16 favorites]
(The edgy bands with the cool kids fans? Same progression. What are Pixies tickets going for these days, I ask you)
posted by jscalzi at 5:35 AM on May 9 [16 favorites]
Every time I hear about Creed, I think about my youth as a 90s indie kid, and I remember this snippet from the biography of NYC-area almost-made-its The Wrens:
1995: Grass Records is bought from Dutch East India by insane, grudge-bearing millionaire and Chinese food aficionado, Alan Melzter, to acquire the Wrens – now the label’s flagship band. The Wrens release their second full length, Secaucus (1996), for Meltzer’s revamped Grass to even more wonderful critical review.posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 5:35 AM on May 9 [25 favorites]
Halfway into first tour supporting Secaucus, the Wrens are told that if they do not sign their ‘big buck record contract’ all promotion for Secaucus will be stopped. The Wrens, frowning on strong-arm tactics, do not re-sign and as promised, all promotion (including support for a pending tour of Europe with Brainiac) is pulled. The head of the record company, infuriated, commences layoffs of involved record company personnel and vows that “the next band to walk through that door will be made famous – at any cost”. The next band through the door is Creed. Grass Records becomes Wind Up Records. Creed becomes famous at any cost.
Leaving aside any judgment about their music, Creed is like any AOR-ish rock band whose fans evolved from deeply uncool teenagers into deeply uncool adults with disposable incomes: They're getting their 20-year payout in the form of audiences who can afford VIP concert packages and cruises. And that's fine. Let people have their fun.
(The edgy bands with the cool kids fans? Same progression. What are Pixies tickets going for these days, I ask you)
Ticketmaster was apparently trying to sell my husband $25 Creed tickets recently, so maybe in reach for the less rich olds, too.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:37 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
(The edgy bands with the cool kids fans? Same progression. What are Pixies tickets going for these days, I ask you)
Ticketmaster was apparently trying to sell my husband $25 Creed tickets recently, so maybe in reach for the less rich olds, too.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:37 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
I’m not going to read the article because I don’t care if somebody thinks that Creed is cool but I’m going to say a few things about this. First, good for Creed; so many bands don’t make it past the decade that they’re in, much less can still be around and successful 30 years later. Second, “cool” is such an ambiguous term that it’s almost meaningless. Subsititute cool with “being listened to by younger generations”, it means more. Third, I never owned any Creed albums because they weren’t my thing but I definitely knew some of their songs and had no problem listening to them because the songs are good. Fourth, I had no idea about their Christian associations until a few years later and I really didn’t care because the songs stand on their own. Fifth, they sold a bazillion albums, got a Grammy. Neither of those things are random. Last, like what you like and don’t care about what other people say about it. Creed did.
posted by ashbury at 5:38 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
posted by ashbury at 5:38 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
They're getting their 20-year payout in the form of audiences who can afford VIP concert packages and cruises.
It's more complicated than that. There's a big under-30 contingent listening to Creed and going to Creed concerts and buying Creed merch these days. Those people were literal children (or not-yet-born) when Creed were on top of the world. This isn't Pearl Jam selling $150 tickets to over-50s.
Creed are riding a wave of haha-only-serious with youth in a way that other bands of their era should be salivating over.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:41 AM on May 9 [8 favorites]
It's more complicated than that. There's a big under-30 contingent listening to Creed and going to Creed concerts and buying Creed merch these days. Those people were literal children (or not-yet-born) when Creed were on top of the world. This isn't Pearl Jam selling $150 tickets to over-50s.
Creed are riding a wave of haha-only-serious with youth in a way that other bands of their era should be salivating over.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:41 AM on May 9 [8 favorites]
Ticketmaster was apparently trying to sell my husband $25 Creed tickets recently
Ticketmaster has something called "Concert Week" where it sells a limited number of tickets to a bunch of shows for $25. They'll be snapped up quickly, at which point Ticketmaster is hoping you'll go "oh, but I still want to see this band" and pay $100 (or whatever).
posted by jscalzi at 5:44 AM on May 9 [8 favorites]
Ticketmaster has something called "Concert Week" where it sells a limited number of tickets to a bunch of shows for $25. They'll be snapped up quickly, at which point Ticketmaster is hoping you'll go "oh, but I still want to see this band" and pay $100 (or whatever).
posted by jscalzi at 5:44 AM on May 9 [8 favorites]
Isn't it cool, Norwegian Pearl?
posted by chavenet at 5:53 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
posted by chavenet at 5:53 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
I’m sorry, are we referring to the most NJ-centric band since Bruce as “NYC-area”?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:03 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:03 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
What are Pixies tickets going for these days, I ask you
They're touring this summer with Elvis Costello. In Toronto lawns are $75 CAD, seats start at $100
posted by thecjm at 6:05 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
They're touring this summer with Elvis Costello. In Toronto lawns are $75 CAD, seats start at $100
posted by thecjm at 6:05 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
Ticketmaster has something called "Concert Week" where it sells a limited number of tickets to a bunch of shows for $25. They'll be snapped up quickly, at which point Ticketmaster is hoping you'll go "oh, but I still want to see this band" and pay $100 (or whatever).
I'm the husband in question and yes, this is exactly right; Ticketmaster offered me the opportunity to drive fifty-eight minutes to Bristow, a "census-designated place" in Virginia, to see Creed for twenty-five dollars, an unmissable opportunity I am none-the-less going to miss.
posted by an octopus IRL at 6:07 AM on May 9 [7 favorites]
I'm the husband in question and yes, this is exactly right; Ticketmaster offered me the opportunity to drive fifty-eight minutes to Bristow, a "census-designated place" in Virginia, to see Creed for twenty-five dollars, an unmissable opportunity I am none-the-less going to miss.
posted by an octopus IRL at 6:07 AM on May 9 [7 favorites]
I was checking our summer concert tickets thanks to that Live Nation $25 sale, and saw that Creed has not one but two concert tours this year - they're playing outdoor venues in the summer and then an arena show in the winter.
posted by thecjm at 6:08 AM on May 9
posted by thecjm at 6:08 AM on May 9
This is of a feather with the Friends revival. All sorts of corny stuff is trending because people are into unvarnished earnestness.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:08 AM on May 9 [8 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:08 AM on May 9 [8 favorites]
I enjoyed the article, but I definitely read the whole thing (given that it was published by Slate) waiting for the New Yorker Eurostep to Slate's notorious 2009 argument that "Creed is good" launching the #slatepitch hashtag. And it gets a reference, though Wilkie doesn't dwell on it:
posted by thecaddy at 6:29 AM on May 9 [4 favorites]
But, frankly, when I revisit Weiner’s piece, many of his arguments sound remarkably cogent to modern orthodoxies. “Creed seemed to irritate people precisely because its music was so unabashedly calibrated towards pleasure: Every surging riff, skyscraping chorus, and cathartic chord progression telegraphed the band’s intention to rock us, wow us, move us,” he writes.I was definitely the right age for both Creed and the backlash. I had a car without a tape deck in high school in the late nineties, and K-Rock 92.3 was frequently tuned in. I did indeed own a CD of My Own Prison (along with several Dave Matthews albums; both became sources of deep embarrassment in Charlottesville indie rock circles in the early aughts). This definitely gets at the appeal: it's molasses-y sweet, churning and dark on the surface. As a contrast to the bubble-gum pop of Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys, it was refreshing—but it's just as poppy as everything else that was getting radio play at the time. Nostalgia and big riffs resuscitated Journey's and Kansas's reputations, too.
posted by thecaddy at 6:29 AM on May 9 [4 favorites]
What are Pixies tickets going for these days, I ask you
Gouge away.
(Actually fairly reasonable, before scalpers jack it up, but nowhere near me. I see some $250 VIP packages in there)
posted by Artw at 6:33 AM on May 9 [2 favorites]
Gouge away.
(Actually fairly reasonable, before scalpers jack it up, but nowhere near me. I see some $250 VIP packages in there)
posted by Artw at 6:33 AM on May 9 [2 favorites]
I've always put Creed in the same box as Nickelback and Imagine Dragons. Music that is inoffensive at first but becomes actively irritating very quickly.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:38 AM on May 9 [7 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:38 AM on May 9 [7 favorites]
I’m sorry, are we referring to the most NJ-centric band since Bruce as “NYC-area”?
Haha, I plead forgiveness, as I was a kid without a car and kept seeing them do shows in Brooklyn.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 6:39 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
Haha, I plead forgiveness, as I was a kid without a car and kept seeing them do shows in Brooklyn.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 6:39 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
I've always put Creed in the same box as Nickelback and Imagine Dragons. Music that is inoffensive at first but becomes actively irritating very quickly.
My mental health status at any given moment has a big effect on my taste in music and once during a manic episode in my early twenties I decided I really really liked Nickelback.
posted by an octopus IRL at 6:47 AM on May 9 [6 favorites]
My mental health status at any given moment has a big effect on my taste in music and once during a manic episode in my early twenties I decided I really really liked Nickelback.
posted by an octopus IRL at 6:47 AM on May 9 [6 favorites]
As a contrast to the bubble-gum pop of Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys, it was refreshing—but it's just as poppy as everything else that was getting radio play at the time.
Yeah, that's accurate. I haven't looked at sheet music or tabs for any of their songs since they were relevant the first time... but as I recall it they were in the same boat as a lot of other "heavy" bands that were getting played on the radio. The heavy riffs were mixed with all the trappings of contemporary pop music. i.e. simple structure, simple rhythm guitar parts, not exactly full of complex drum fills, etc.
Which is fine. I'm not hating on it. People like what they like. Not everything has to be Dream Theater or Bach.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 6:50 AM on May 9
Yeah, that's accurate. I haven't looked at sheet music or tabs for any of their songs since they were relevant the first time... but as I recall it they were in the same boat as a lot of other "heavy" bands that were getting played on the radio. The heavy riffs were mixed with all the trappings of contemporary pop music. i.e. simple structure, simple rhythm guitar parts, not exactly full of complex drum fills, etc.
Which is fine. I'm not hating on it. People like what they like. Not everything has to be Dream Theater or Bach.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 6:50 AM on May 9
Though it's kind of crazy to think Gen Z is like, unironically liking this. I guess we did the same thing. The Eagles got a shot in the arm back in the late 90s when I was in high school. We didn't know the Eagles sucked. Hotel California was catchy as hell.
To their credit I think some bands like Kittie are undergoing a kind of resurgence from the same thing. The Kids (tm) are finding things like Spit and hearing something that's new to them, and something that's been missing from popular music for awhile.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 6:55 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
To their credit I think some bands like Kittie are undergoing a kind of resurgence from the same thing. The Kids (tm) are finding things like Spit and hearing something that's new to them, and something that's been missing from popular music for awhile.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 6:55 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
The specific social conditions that made Creed uniquely uncool have gone away. New, less-restrictive social conditions apply to them (but not to contemporary bands; rules of contemporary cool are still in place). That's why it's okay to like Steely Dan now*. It's also why when I worked in China around 2000, the Carpenters and Tom Jones were unironically popular - the social conditions which made them embarrassing in the US didn't apply. This is why I know the entirety of "It's Not Unusual" and sing it when I'm feeling upbeat.
*I really hate Steely Dan. I tried when people were like "but they are so accomplished" but "pseudoprofound" is the very word for them, the worst, intellectually speaking, of post-sixties pop culture trends. Sorry.
posted by Frowner at 6:56 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
*I really hate Steely Dan. I tried when people were like "but they are so accomplished" but "pseudoprofound" is the very word for them, the worst, intellectually speaking, of post-sixties pop culture trends. Sorry.
posted by Frowner at 6:56 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
I unironically and earnestly love the Eagles and Steely Dan.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 7:05 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 7:05 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
There's no bad publicity, in action. And it doubly applies online where it's hard to tell how cool the people you're talking to actually are.
posted by subdee at 7:19 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
posted by subdee at 7:19 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
Until I read these comments I didn't realize I had somehow conflated Creed and Nickelback. Creedback. Nickeleed. Crickelbeed.
posted by custardfairy at 7:19 AM on May 9 [16 favorites]
posted by custardfairy at 7:19 AM on May 9 [16 favorites]
...I had somehow conflated Creed and Nickelback.
Crack'd.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:38 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
Crack'd.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:38 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
The specific social conditions that made Creed uniquely uncool have gone away.
I experienced this phenomena at a recording session where there was an age gap of maybe 10 years between band members. The topic of Steve Miller came up, and we younger folk were all "he's fine, kind of milquetoast but inoffensive, and that synth intro to Fly Like An Eagle is admittedly pretty dope" to which the older folk responded "ARGLBARGL STEVE MILLER IS THE @*#^@# DEVIL."
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:38 AM on May 9 [10 favorites]
I experienced this phenomena at a recording session where there was an age gap of maybe 10 years between band members. The topic of Steve Miller came up, and we younger folk were all "he's fine, kind of milquetoast but inoffensive, and that synth intro to Fly Like An Eagle is admittedly pretty dope" to which the older folk responded "ARGLBARGL STEVE MILLER IS THE @*#^@# DEVIL."
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:38 AM on May 9 [10 favorites]
Why do I feel like about ten years ago I was seeing very similar articles as this only they were about Dave Matthews Band?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:41 AM on May 9 [4 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:41 AM on May 9 [4 favorites]
The Eagles got a shot in the arm back in the late 90s when I was in high school. We didn't know the Eagles sucked. Hotel California was catchy as hell.
Thankfully The Big Lebowski came along to offer a necessary corrective.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:42 AM on May 9 [13 favorites]
Thankfully The Big Lebowski came along to offer a necessary corrective.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:42 AM on May 9 [13 favorites]
Wait -- what's wrong with the Steve Miller Band?
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:43 AM on May 9 [2 favorites]
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:43 AM on May 9 [2 favorites]
Wait -- what's wrong with the Steve Miller Band?
To many of us, Steve Miller is just a familiar voice on Classic Rock radio, like Heart or Boston. Who can be mad at Classic Rock Radio? But in the 70s, best I can tell, Steve Miller was inescapably popular, which made people who cared about Real Rock very, very angry, because Steve Miller, aside from being a nepo baby (Les Paul was his godfather!), just had a very lazy vibe. I'm sure the phrase "triumph of mediocrity" was lobbed in his direction by Creem magazine.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:51 AM on May 9 [10 favorites]
To many of us, Steve Miller is just a familiar voice on Classic Rock radio, like Heart or Boston. Who can be mad at Classic Rock Radio? But in the 70s, best I can tell, Steve Miller was inescapably popular, which made people who cared about Real Rock very, very angry, because Steve Miller, aside from being a nepo baby (Les Paul was his godfather!), just had a very lazy vibe. I'm sure the phrase "triumph of mediocrity" was lobbed in his direction by Creem magazine.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:51 AM on May 9 [10 favorites]
What makes the "is Creed cool" argument especially terrible is that Scott Stapp is an evangelical Christian--an inherently uncool thing, since any concept of "cool" is defined by personal agency--and apparently has a domestic record. For all my abundant problems with Dave Matthews Band, at least Matthews fired Boyd Tinsley (CN: Graphic descriptions of sexual assault) after Tinsley was accused of harassing and assaulting one of his proteges. Then again, if Creed were to fire and distance themselves from Stapp, there would be no band.
posted by pxe2000 at 8:03 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 8:03 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
Metalfilter: ARGLBARGL STEVE MILLER
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 8:08 AM on May 9 [14 favorites]
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 8:08 AM on May 9 [14 favorites]
My fave Scott Stapp story - https://www.neogaf.com/threads/its-another-laugh-at-scott-stapp-thread.87481/
posted by The Vice Admiral of the Narrow Seas at 8:20 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
posted by The Vice Admiral of the Narrow Seas at 8:20 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
along with several Dave Matthews albums
You can slag Creed all you want, but don't blaspheme Dave.
posted by kjs3 at 8:33 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
You can slag Creed all you want, but don't blaspheme Dave.
posted by kjs3 at 8:33 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
I feel like I should post the "That's bait" meme from Fury Road as a warning to other reformed Gen X music snobs.
We've come so far, y'all. We don't have to jump at this red meat. This juicy, juicy red meat.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:40 AM on May 9 [8 favorites]
We've come so far, y'all. We don't have to jump at this red meat. This juicy, juicy red meat.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:40 AM on May 9 [8 favorites]
"because Steve Miller... just had a very lazy vibe"
Sometime in the mid 90's, two friends were going to see Steve Miller and invited me along (since I was in the area), and I remember Steve's guitar strap coming off of his guitar mid-song, and him just standing there, holding the guitar and not playing it for probably 30 seconds while one of his crew ran out from back stage and pulled the strap back over Steve's shoulder and reattached it to the guitar. I still remember that as one of the laziest things I've ever seen from a rock star on stage.
posted by klausman at 8:41 AM on May 9 [13 favorites]
Sometime in the mid 90's, two friends were going to see Steve Miller and invited me along (since I was in the area), and I remember Steve's guitar strap coming off of his guitar mid-song, and him just standing there, holding the guitar and not playing it for probably 30 seconds while one of his crew ran out from back stage and pulled the strap back over Steve's shoulder and reattached it to the guitar. I still remember that as one of the laziest things I've ever seen from a rock star on stage.
posted by klausman at 8:41 AM on May 9 [13 favorites]
You can slag Creed all you want, but don't blaspheme Dave.
Please note the "Charlottesville indie rock circles in the early aughts" clause there, because there were distinct cultural aspects related to that specific time and place. Dave himself always seemed like a chill dude when I would see him out and about.
posted by thecaddy at 8:42 AM on May 9 [2 favorites]
Please note the "Charlottesville indie rock circles in the early aughts" clause there, because there were distinct cultural aspects related to that specific time and place. Dave himself always seemed like a chill dude when I would see him out and about.
posted by thecaddy at 8:42 AM on May 9 [2 favorites]
Apropos of .. something ... Kansas will be playing our state fair this summer, and the band still includes a couple of original members, and it's going to cost like ten bucks to see them, and I couldn't be more thrilled, words which I will never say about Creed.
posted by vverse23 at 8:44 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
posted by vverse23 at 8:44 AM on May 9 [5 favorites]
(There's a novel, or at least a short story, in folks in the aughts wanting Charlottesville to break big on the national musical stage, like an Athens or a Chapel Hill, while studiously ignoring the fact that Pavement and Dave Matthews had gotten pretty big half a decade before.)
posted by thecaddy at 8:46 AM on May 9
posted by thecaddy at 8:46 AM on May 9
"because Steve Miller... just had a very lazy vibe"
IMO the lazy vibe is deserved as Take the Money and Run lines almost but don't quite rhyme - and he wasn't clever enough to do that purposefully. And Abracadbra - his last #1, the chorus is:
Abra abracadabra
I wanna reach out and grab ya
Abra abracadabra
Abracadabra
The rest of the lyrics are fine, but that's just extremely lazy.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:46 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
IMO the lazy vibe is deserved as Take the Money and Run lines almost but don't quite rhyme - and he wasn't clever enough to do that purposefully. And Abracadbra - his last #1, the chorus is:
Abra abracadabra
I wanna reach out and grab ya
Abra abracadabra
Abracadabra
The rest of the lyrics are fine, but that's just extremely lazy.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:46 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
Tried to read the article but it's set in some alternate reality and I'm not in the mood for fiction.
posted by GoblinHoney at 8:51 AM on May 9
posted by GoblinHoney at 8:51 AM on May 9
Why do I feel like about ten years ago I was seeing very similar articles as this only they were about Dave Matthews Band?
It was almost exactly one year ago on MetaFilter.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:59 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
It was almost exactly one year ago on MetaFilter.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:59 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
I don't care for Creedence.
posted by surlyben at 9:04 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
posted by surlyben at 9:04 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
In Steve Miller...appreciation, but probably a sign of laziness -- he can perform Take The Money and Run to the tune of The Joker (as a palate clenser, the Fat Boy Slim version of The Joker.)
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:06 AM on May 9
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:06 AM on May 9
Here's Steve Miller in his prime. Very strong "middlingly talented rich kid who buys weed for everyone playing a show in someone's basement" vibes.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:11 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:11 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
A week ago I was at a cookout and a young hipster was telling horrifiex me how much he liked Creed and I was instantly transported to my past of being a young hipster telling a horrified older someone else how much I liked Styx and Hall & Oates.
Our youthful sins are visited upon us in middle age.
posted by Kattullus at 9:13 AM on May 9 [16 favorites]
Our youthful sins are visited upon us in middle age.
posted by Kattullus at 9:13 AM on May 9 [16 favorites]
I don't care for Creedence.
Being a regular Just King Things listener means regular exposure to Uncle Stevie’s Mixtape and through it a shit ton of Creedance. It’s okay. He listens to/namechecks worse.
posted by Artw at 9:17 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
Being a regular Just King Things listener means regular exposure to Uncle Stevie’s Mixtape and through it a shit ton of Creedance. It’s okay. He listens to/namechecks worse.
posted by Artw at 9:17 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
That's funny, I saw Kansas 25 years ago playing in a .. state fair in Florida. They were pretty good, too.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:20 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:20 AM on May 9 [1 favorite]
I don't actively listen to Creedence, but I can't dislike anyone who inspired D Boon.
posted by pxe2000 at 9:27 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 9:27 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
Creed are riding a wave of haha-only-serious with youth in a way that other bands of their era should be salivating over.
Nu metal revivalism is definitely a bit of a thing, I can’t say about Creed revivalism (feels harder to sustain from a musical perspective because at least nu metal was weird and fused rock and hip hop in a way that fits the modern landscape) but indeed that’s what the article is claiming.
Otherwise I would have placed them as “always popular but never cool” so the cruise and longtime fans with tattoos are not surprising. Tremonti’s post-Creed projects were pretty successful, too.
posted by atoxyl at 9:34 AM on May 9
Nu metal revivalism is definitely a bit of a thing, I can’t say about Creed revivalism (feels harder to sustain from a musical perspective because at least nu metal was weird and fused rock and hip hop in a way that fits the modern landscape) but indeed that’s what the article is claiming.
Otherwise I would have placed them as “always popular but never cool” so the cruise and longtime fans with tattoos are not surprising. Tremonti’s post-Creed projects were pretty successful, too.
posted by atoxyl at 9:34 AM on May 9
Creed was and is so easily mockable and silly. I was there. Nothing has changed about that. Oh well, I listen to Blackpink now, ha.
posted by teece303 at 9:38 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
posted by teece303 at 9:38 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
Tremonti’s post-Creed projects
“Yeah, [frontman] kinda sucks, but [guitarist] is actually pretty talented” syndrome is an interesting phenomenon in uncool 00s band apologetics.
posted by atoxyl at 9:39 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
“Yeah, [frontman] kinda sucks, but [guitarist] is actually pretty talented” syndrome is an interesting phenomenon in uncool 00s band apologetics.
posted by atoxyl at 9:39 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
My bartender poured me a beer and misheard my description of it as "creedy" so now I think we're gonna make that happen as an adjective.
posted by credulous at 9:40 AM on May 9 [2 favorites]
posted by credulous at 9:40 AM on May 9 [2 favorites]
A week ago I was at a cookout and a young hipster was telling horrifiex me how much he liked Creed and I was instantly transported to my past of being a young hipster telling a horrified older someone else how much I liked Styx and Hall & Oates.
The problem with this story is that Hall & Oates is objectively awesome. Creed and Styx, not so much.
Then he screamed, "Leave me alone, I'm a family man
"And my bark is much worse than my bite"
He said, "Leave me alone, I'm a family man
"But if you push me too far, I just might"
posted by signal at 9:56 AM on May 9 [2 favorites]
The problem with this story is that Hall & Oates is objectively awesome. Creed and Styx, not so much.
Then he screamed, "Leave me alone, I'm a family man
"And my bark is much worse than my bite"
He said, "Leave me alone, I'm a family man
"But if you push me too far, I just might"
posted by signal at 9:56 AM on May 9 [2 favorites]
The problem with this story is that Hall & Oates is objectively awesome. Creed and Styx, not so much.
You have made a powerful enemy this day.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 10:15 AM on May 9 [16 favorites]
You have made a powerful enemy this day.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 10:15 AM on May 9 [16 favorites]
> Look, I have a substantial collection of Jethro Tull albums. So understand I am coming from a place of empathy when I tell you Creed will never be cool.
A couple of weeks ago I was digging through the records in a "$5 each/3 for $10" room and there were two guys in there with me who looked to be about 20. One of them pulled a record out of the bin, held it up and asked his friend "Have you heard of Jethro...........TULL?" in a tone of complete bewilderment.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:21 AM on May 9 [4 favorites]
A couple of weeks ago I was digging through the records in a "$5 each/3 for $10" room and there were two guys in there with me who looked to be about 20. One of them pulled a record out of the bin, held it up and asked his friend "Have you heard of Jethro...........TULL?" in a tone of complete bewilderment.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:21 AM on May 9 [4 favorites]
the band still includes a couple of original members, and it's going to cost like ten bucks to see them, and I couldn't be more thrilled, words which I will never say about Creed.
I don't know, I'd be up for giving Creed with none of the original members a shot. At least for the new stuff.
I kid. Tremonti had some good riffs.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 10:22 AM on May 9
I don't know, I'd be up for giving Creed with none of the original members a shot. At least for the new stuff.
I kid. Tremonti had some good riffs.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 10:22 AM on May 9
EARTH IS ATTACKED
HUMANS ESCAPE
15 YEARS AE
HUMANS ARE HOMELESS
ALIENS RULE
SET THE COURSE
FIGHT THE BATTLE
TAKE THE RIDE
"CAN YOU TAKE ME HIGHER?"
ENTER A UNIVERSE WITHOUT RULES
WITHOUT LAWS
WITHOUT LIMITS
AFTER EARTH ENDS
THE ADVENTURE BEGINS
GET READY FOR
THE HUMAN RACE
posted by straight at 10:29 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
HUMANS ESCAPE
15 YEARS AE
HUMANS ARE HOMELESS
ALIENS RULE
SET THE COURSE
FIGHT THE BATTLE
TAKE THE RIDE
"CAN YOU TAKE ME HIGHER?"
ENTER A UNIVERSE WITHOUT RULES
WITHOUT LAWS
WITHOUT LIMITS
AFTER EARTH ENDS
THE ADVENTURE BEGINS
GET READY FOR
THE HUMAN RACE
posted by straight at 10:29 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
I've always put Creed in the same box as Nickelback and Imagine Dragons. Music that is inoffensive at first but becomes actively irritating very quickly.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 9:38 AM on May 9
A parent friend currently has a fourth grader who constantly listens to Imagine Dragons. I think its going to destroy him. Whenever he mentions it, he seems like a man about to have a break down.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:40 AM on May 9 [8 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 9:38 AM on May 9
A parent friend currently has a fourth grader who constantly listens to Imagine Dragons. I think its going to destroy him. Whenever he mentions it, he seems like a man about to have a break down.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:40 AM on May 9 [8 favorites]
But the truth is that little of the smug hatred for the group has ever had much to do with the music itself. Creed’s first record, 1997’s My Own Prison, was nearly identical to the down-tuned angst of Soundgarden or Alice in Chains, drawn well inside the lines of alt-rock radio. (It earned a tasteful 4/5 rating from the longtime consumer guide AllMusic.)
The problems arose only after the band started writing the celestial hooks of Human Clay, solidifying its superstar association with other groups chasing the same crunchy highs with machine-learning efficiency: Nickelback, Staind, Shinedown, and so on.
But it was partly about the music. I remember "My Own Prison," the song, on alt rock radio when I was a preteen boy. I thought it was kind of boring and droney, but it did fit right in with other angsty music of the time (and somehow nobody caught that the very explicit Christian imagery wasn't just there to be edgy—the '90s were a weird time). They didn't seem like posers, just like they had written a slow song that was on the radio too much. It was only when Creed got poppy that they seemed actually lame, because they had put aside music that at least maybe said something you wouldn't hear on Good Morning America (again, the '90s were a weird time) for mediocre pop rock.
posted by smelendez at 10:52 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
The problems arose only after the band started writing the celestial hooks of Human Clay, solidifying its superstar association with other groups chasing the same crunchy highs with machine-learning efficiency: Nickelback, Staind, Shinedown, and so on.
But it was partly about the music. I remember "My Own Prison," the song, on alt rock radio when I was a preteen boy. I thought it was kind of boring and droney, but it did fit right in with other angsty music of the time (and somehow nobody caught that the very explicit Christian imagery wasn't just there to be edgy—the '90s were a weird time). They didn't seem like posers, just like they had written a slow song that was on the radio too much. It was only when Creed got poppy that they seemed actually lame, because they had put aside music that at least maybe said something you wouldn't hear on Good Morning America (again, the '90s were a weird time) for mediocre pop rock.
posted by smelendez at 10:52 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
We've come so far, y'all. We don't have to jump at this red meat. This juicy, juicy red meat.
This... Red Red Meat?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:06 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
This... Red Red Meat?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:06 AM on May 9 [3 favorites]
smelendez: 1997’s My Own Prison, was nearly identical to the down-tuned angst of Soundgarden or Alice in Chains,
I had all three on CD.
Not. Even. Close.
posted by signal at 11:41 AM on May 9 [4 favorites]
I had all three on CD.
Not. Even. Close.
posted by signal at 11:41 AM on May 9 [4 favorites]
interesting to see that neither the article nor this discussion has talked about the 'divorced dad rock' genre of which Creed is one of the most hallowed bands
the gen z 'rediscovery' of late 90s/early 00s bands like Nirvana, the coming back in vogue of frutiger aero, the unironic enjoyment of the bands that some were forced to listen to on the bus, in friends cars, everywhere pre-streaming media, like yes, of course Creed is touring
for the divorced folks of my generation driving to their increasingly worse-paying jobs in their crunched up '12 Camaros with custom rims and a rebuilt title, memories of summers stinking of gel, sweat, and good times, I'm sure Creed evokes a sentimentality unrivaled in its bittersweetness
me, I will for sure be singing along during karaoke with very little irony on my mind
posted by paimapi at 12:03 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
the gen z 'rediscovery' of late 90s/early 00s bands like Nirvana, the coming back in vogue of frutiger aero, the unironic enjoyment of the bands that some were forced to listen to on the bus, in friends cars, everywhere pre-streaming media, like yes, of course Creed is touring
for the divorced folks of my generation driving to their increasingly worse-paying jobs in their crunched up '12 Camaros with custom rims and a rebuilt title, memories of summers stinking of gel, sweat, and good times, I'm sure Creed evokes a sentimentality unrivaled in its bittersweetness
me, I will for sure be singing along during karaoke with very little irony on my mind
posted by paimapi at 12:03 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
it did fit right in with other angsty music of the time
Partly the uncoolness of Creed is exactly about that, right? This has been discussed to death but post-grunge dragged on forever, continuing to sell tons of albums but getting less and less hip. And on top of that Creed added “pretentiously Christian.” But when it comes time for ironic reappropriation that makes them stand out from the crowd a bit.
posted by atoxyl at 12:14 PM on May 9
Partly the uncoolness of Creed is exactly about that, right? This has been discussed to death but post-grunge dragged on forever, continuing to sell tons of albums but getting less and less hip. And on top of that Creed added “pretentiously Christian.” But when it comes time for ironic reappropriation that makes them stand out from the crowd a bit.
posted by atoxyl at 12:14 PM on May 9
no? only one person is allowed to yarl, and everyone else can f right off. Creed should never ever be "rehabilitated" even ironically. They should be mocked as mercilessly as nickelback. If you want a shitty rednecky rock sounding band with a little mild yarling, go listen to Seven Mary Three or something. At least that dude had a cool mustache.
Or hell that Soul whatever band (WOOOOOOOOAH Heaven let your light shine down). Or even Counting Crows. But Creed? Never. Bury it with a thousand feet of dirt with the ET capsules, and never dig it up again (unlike what they did with the ET carts).
posted by symbioid at 12:31 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
Or hell that Soul whatever band (WOOOOOOOOAH Heaven let your light shine down). Or even Counting Crows. But Creed? Never. Bury it with a thousand feet of dirt with the ET capsules, and never dig it up again (unlike what they did with the ET carts).
posted by symbioid at 12:31 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
I’ve never heard anything by Creed. Back in the day, I was too busy running around calling Kid A overrated, so I didn’t have time to hate on a wide variety of music. Do you know how many people foolishly thought too highly of Kid A? It was exhausting.
However, I enjoyed the article because slate.com contrarianism always entertains me, although I do suspect that the “surprising” number of “young” people, is similar to the amount of “young” people at a Belle and Sebastian show or here at Metafilter. A handful, here and there, but mostly the stage lights reflect off a sea of shiny heads.
posted by betweenthebars at 12:52 PM on May 9 [5 favorites]
However, I enjoyed the article because slate.com contrarianism always entertains me, although I do suspect that the “surprising” number of “young” people, is similar to the amount of “young” people at a Belle and Sebastian show or here at Metafilter. A handful, here and there, but mostly the stage lights reflect off a sea of shiny heads.
posted by betweenthebars at 12:52 PM on May 9 [5 favorites]
Soul Asylum? Dang that was a greatest hits of bad post grunge, symbioid. Ha.
posted by teece303 at 12:53 PM on May 9
posted by teece303 at 12:53 PM on May 9
Or hell that Soul whatever band (WOOOOOOOOAH Heaven let your light shine down).
Collective Soul, and they are actually still a thing. I don't think I've ever heard anything negative about them - largely because "Shine" is basically the only song people have heard from them in most cases. Maybe that's the way to go.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:54 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
Collective Soul, and they are actually still a thing. I don't think I've ever heard anything negative about them - largely because "Shine" is basically the only song people have heard from them in most cases. Maybe that's the way to go.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:54 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
Soul Asylum? Dang that was a greatest hits of bad post grunge, symbioid. Ha.
Watch your mouth. Soul Asylum put out a string of great albums before Grave Dancers Union, and were contemporaries with the Replacements (obviously).
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:56 PM on May 9 [5 favorites]
Watch your mouth. Soul Asylum put out a string of great albums before Grave Dancers Union, and were contemporaries with the Replacements (obviously).
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:56 PM on May 9 [5 favorites]
Or hell that Soul whatever band (WOOOOOOOOAH Heaven let your light shine down). Or even Counting Crows. But Creed? Never. Bury it with a thousand feet of dirt with the ET capsules, and never dig it up again (unlike what they did with the ET carts).
I really dislike Collective Soul. And I find Creed incredibly boring. But I'd listen to both nonstop for a week before I listen to Counting Crows. The are one of the very few bands I genuinely hate hearing.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 12:58 PM on May 9 [3 favorites]
I really dislike Collective Soul. And I find Creed incredibly boring. But I'd listen to both nonstop for a week before I listen to Counting Crows. The are one of the very few bands I genuinely hate hearing.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 12:58 PM on May 9 [3 favorites]
A parent friend currently has a fourth grader who constantly listens to Imagine Dragons. I think its going to destroy him. Whenever he mentions it, he seems like a man about to have a break down.
.
posted by tracknode at 1:16 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
.
posted by tracknode at 1:16 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
Now I'm wondering who "the most hated band of the 1980s" might be.
I can also think of a couple one-hit-wonders I would love to nominate.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:17 PM on May 9
I can also think of a couple one-hit-wonders I would love to nominate.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:17 PM on May 9
Collective Soul, and they are actually still a thing. I don't think I've ever heard anything negative about them - largely because "Shine" is basically the only song people have heard from them in most cases. Maybe that's the way to go.
That dusts off a recent-ish memory. I'm pretty sure it was Collective Soul that a friend of mine saw maybe 5-10 years ago. The lead singer's crowd banter at one point included "...not bad for a one hit wonder band from the 90s, eh?"
Something to be said for owning it.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 1:20 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
That dusts off a recent-ish memory. I'm pretty sure it was Collective Soul that a friend of mine saw maybe 5-10 years ago. The lead singer's crowd banter at one point included "...not bad for a one hit wonder band from the 90s, eh?"
Something to be said for owning it.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 1:20 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
I think the Clear Channelling of radio really cemented our hatred of some of these late 90s early 00s bands. If you were stuck listening to the radio at work in my midwestern town you were screwed (it’s not like anyone else would be fine with the local jazz station). Hearing “Mr Jones” on the radio 17 times a day has programmed me. If I heard it now I would activate like a sleeper agent and drive a car off the road into an overpass bollard as fast as I could to escape the racket.
“Shine” is fairly irritating in high doses, but Collective Soul’s next couple albums hold up as far as anodyne pop rock goes (found my high school CDs during the pandemic).
Creed’s first album was dark enough to be interesting; the rest felt like being stuck at Wednesday night rock church. A decade plus of Scott Stapp’s shitty behavior didn’t help, either. He’s every wanker youth pastor I’ve ever met.
All that said, you can fight me for System of a Down or deftones.
posted by hototogisu at 2:32 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
“Shine” is fairly irritating in high doses, but Collective Soul’s next couple albums hold up as far as anodyne pop rock goes (found my high school CDs during the pandemic).
Creed’s first album was dark enough to be interesting; the rest felt like being stuck at Wednesday night rock church. A decade plus of Scott Stapp’s shitty behavior didn’t help, either. He’s every wanker youth pastor I’ve ever met.
All that said, you can fight me for System of a Down or deftones.
posted by hototogisu at 2:32 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
A sub genre of "don't read the YouTube comments" is knowing whether you're ready to see how many people are praising a song you know in your heart to be terrible.
"20+ years later I think we can say Creed stood the test of time. Great music today"
"This is music that speaks to the heart. Still cranking it in 2024!"
"This banger right here still saves lives. Grateful for having ears to hear this masterpiece. Bravo"
"People can hate all they want..But this album was one great song after another.."
"People can say what they want about Creed but 'My Own Prison' is one of the best songs of it’s era."
posted by straight at 2:33 PM on May 9 [2 favorites]
"20+ years later I think we can say Creed stood the test of time. Great music today"
"This is music that speaks to the heart. Still cranking it in 2024!"
"This banger right here still saves lives. Grateful for having ears to hear this masterpiece. Bravo"
"People can hate all they want..But this album was one great song after another.."
"People can say what they want about Creed but 'My Own Prison' is one of the best songs of it’s era."
posted by straight at 2:33 PM on May 9 [2 favorites]
"Have you heard of Jethro...........TULL?"
Youth these days don't know the great agronomists.
posted by away for regrooving at 3:04 PM on May 9 [9 favorites]
Youth these days don't know the great agronomists.
posted by away for regrooving at 3:04 PM on May 9 [9 favorites]
Oh boy, there’s a lot of hate in this thread but here goes: I unabashedly, unironically and without apology have no problem whatsoever with Collective Soul, Soul Asylum, Goo Goo Dolls, Matchbox 20, Nickelback, Counting Crows, Smash Mouth, and all the other generic sounding bands from the 90’s. I will never choose to listen to them because they were overplayed then and not necessary now, but neither would i turn them off or complain if they were on.
But I have a problem with lumping in Styx, the Eagles, Hall & Oates, Jethro Tull to those 90’s bands. Well, maybe not Hall & Oates but anyway, in my opinion these bands contributed in a significant way to the evolution of rock unlike those 90’s bands. Honestly, Aqualung is embarrassing? Hotel California is tripe? Come Sail Away is ridiculous? Nobody has to like these groups but some acknowledgement that something special was going with them seems reasonable.
I don’t know, I guess I just think that hating on certain bands or certain types of music is silly and pretentious.
I know, I know, pistols at dawn and all that stuff and I also realize that all of this is spoken more in fun than in any seriousness
posted by ashbury at 5:17 PM on May 9 [2 favorites]
But I have a problem with lumping in Styx, the Eagles, Hall & Oates, Jethro Tull to those 90’s bands. Well, maybe not Hall & Oates but anyway, in my opinion these bands contributed in a significant way to the evolution of rock unlike those 90’s bands. Honestly, Aqualung is embarrassing? Hotel California is tripe? Come Sail Away is ridiculous? Nobody has to like these groups but some acknowledgement that something special was going with them seems reasonable.
I don’t know, I guess I just think that hating on certain bands or certain types of music is silly and pretentious.
I know, I know, pistols at dawn and all that stuff and I also realize that all of this is spoken more in fun than in any seriousness
posted by ashbury at 5:17 PM on May 9 [2 favorites]
A sub genre of "don't read the YouTube comments" is knowing whether you're ready to see how many people are praising a song you know in your heart to be terrible.
My favorite version of this, as a child of the 90s, is some comment along the lines of "life was so much simpler then" sometimes with a reference to 9/11. I like most of the music people are hating this thread, like I can name three Collective Soul songs I like, but even I find those comments funny.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:46 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
My favorite version of this, as a child of the 90s, is some comment along the lines of "life was so much simpler then" sometimes with a reference to 9/11. I like most of the music people are hating this thread, like I can name three Collective Soul songs I like, but even I find those comments funny.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:46 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
But I have a problem with lumping in Styx, the Eagles, Hall & Oates, Jethro Tull to those 90’s bands. Well, maybe not Hall & Oates
Method of Modern Love is far better than anything by them others.
posted by signal at 5:57 PM on May 9
Method of Modern Love is far better than anything by them others.
posted by signal at 5:57 PM on May 9
Youth these days don't know the great agronomists.
Total degeneracy. It's like the seed drill means nothing to them.
Now I'm wondering who "the most hated band of the 1980s" might be.
If we're taking suggestions, I nominate Warrant. It's like someone looked at GNR and thought "good, good. but what if Slash also sucked"
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:15 PM on May 9 [3 favorites]
Total degeneracy. It's like the seed drill means nothing to them.
Now I'm wondering who "the most hated band of the 1980s" might be.
If we're taking suggestions, I nominate Warrant. It's like someone looked at GNR and thought "good, good. but what if Slash also sucked"
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:15 PM on May 9 [3 favorites]
Method of Modern Love is far better than anything by them others.
M-E-T-H-O-D-O-F-L-O-V-E. I can't tell if you're serious or not. I was pretty fond of their album Private Eyes and I have the song Private Eyes on a few playlists, however. And I generally like their radio hits/greatest hits.
Now I'm wondering who "the most hated band of the 1980s" might be.
Starship? Phil Collins? Name your least favourite hair band? Milli Vanilli? Controversial or not, I enjoyed their songs, to be honest.
Maybe fighting words for some but I always had a hard time with Toto and I don't know why. On the other hand I totally liked them in their various formations as session musicians
posted by ashbury at 6:39 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
M-E-T-H-O-D-O-F-L-O-V-E. I can't tell if you're serious or not. I was pretty fond of their album Private Eyes and I have the song Private Eyes on a few playlists, however. And I generally like their radio hits/greatest hits.
Now I'm wondering who "the most hated band of the 1980s" might be.
Starship? Phil Collins? Name your least favourite hair band? Milli Vanilli? Controversial or not, I enjoyed their songs, to be honest.
Maybe fighting words for some but I always had a hard time with Toto and I don't know why. On the other hand I totally liked them in their various formations as session musicians
posted by ashbury at 6:39 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
ashbury: I can't tell if you're serious or not.
Completely. Hall & Oates wrote some amazing songs.
posted by signal at 6:42 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
Completely. Hall & Oates wrote some amazing songs.
posted by signal at 6:42 PM on May 9 [1 favorite]
For absolutely no valid reason at all I always felt that Daryl was totally arrogant and that John was underrated as a singer, both of which have no bearing on the quality of their music.
They had a long string of number 1's and for a bunch of years they rightfully dominated radio but do you feel that Method is truly one of their better tracks? Like, better than or on par with Rich Girl, Kiss on my List, Sara Smile, Did it in a Minute, Out of Touch, etc etc?
I've been enjoying watching some of their videos - wow, they sure are a product of the time
posted by ashbury at 7:06 PM on May 9
They had a long string of number 1's and for a bunch of years they rightfully dominated radio but do you feel that Method is truly one of their better tracks? Like, better than or on par with Rich Girl, Kiss on my List, Sara Smile, Did it in a Minute, Out of Touch, etc etc?
I've been enjoying watching some of their videos - wow, they sure are a product of the time
posted by ashbury at 7:06 PM on May 9
ashbury: do you feel that Method is truly one of their better tracks?
Oh no, not by a long shot. I meant that Method, not even one of their best songs, is better than anything by Styx, Eagles, etc.
It was, as the kids say, a diss.
posted by signal at 7:58 PM on May 9
Oh no, not by a long shot. I meant that Method, not even one of their best songs, is better than anything by Styx, Eagles, etc.
It was, as the kids say, a diss.
posted by signal at 7:58 PM on May 9
Right, I thought that’s what was going on and it was a good diss, fwiw. I have no snappy comeback, sadly. I might as well dive all the way in and say that I also like Steve Miller, America, a relatively obscure band called Five Guys Named Moe, late 70’s and early 80’s Genesis, Cat Stevens, Soundgarden, Human League, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Moody Blues, Yes, think that the Jar of Flies EPwas Alice in Chains best work, prefer Eddie over Pearl Jam, can’t get enough of Beck, love love love 60’s and early 70’s soul, Motown, Lemon Jelly, Tosca, Spoon, LCD Soundsystem, dozens and dozens of bands from the last 10 years and you’re wrong but obviously welcome to have any opinion you want wrt music and let’s not forget Steely Dan and I can’t say that I ever liked Nirvana. And Eric Clapton has views that are abhorrent to me but I still think that he’s one of the Greats, and Prince is a genius but I can’t always get with everything that he’s done
posted by ashbury at 8:41 PM on May 9 [2 favorites]
posted by ashbury at 8:41 PM on May 9 [2 favorites]
Fun fact: Creed's Mark Tremonti was in a band in high school with Kevin Barnes, the mastermind behind Of Montreal.
posted by Dokterrock at 9:48 PM on May 9 [4 favorites]
posted by Dokterrock at 9:48 PM on May 9 [4 favorites]
Love Human League, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, Spoon, LCD Soundsystem, Prince, Nirvana. Don't really have an opinion on the others, either because I haven't really listened to them or they had no impact on me, except I'm not the right kind of hipster for Beck and I dislike Tears in Heaven too much to take Clapton seriously.
Diving in: Hole was better than Nirvana but patriarchy. Rock in general and Metal in particular is stronger than it's ever been and the future of hip-hop is 4 of the 8 members of XG, a Japanese K-Pop group.
posted by signal at 6:30 AM on May 10
Diving in: Hole was better than Nirvana but patriarchy. Rock in general and Metal in particular is stronger than it's ever been and the future of hip-hop is 4 of the 8 members of XG, a Japanese K-Pop group.
posted by signal at 6:30 AM on May 10
And Eric Clapton has views that are abhorrent to me but I still think that he’s one of the GreatsAt what, playing a string of 16th notes with his mouth open? He was never anything other than an above-average guitarist with a vocal stan army. His generational peers--Richard Thompson, Ry Cooder, Tom Verlaine, looking at you--were far better guitarists on a technical level, and while they didn't have a loud, opinionated fanbase, they also didn't use racial slurs or use their platforms to share their antivax beliefs.
posted by pxe2000 at 7:01 AM on May 10 [3 favorites]
> Now I'm wondering who "the most hated band of the 1980s" might be.
Starship? Phil Collins? Name your least favourite hair band? Milli Vanilli?
Honestly, I didn't have anyone in particular in mind (since we're all going to have our own candidates anyway). I personally have a grudge against someone named "Pebbles" who did this one song that was the absolute bane of my existence during a summer job where we had the radio on and it was played every 40 minutes or so and it made me want to throw things. ....I don't think Pebbles did anything else so I don't know if that counts.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:34 AM on May 10
Starship? Phil Collins? Name your least favourite hair band? Milli Vanilli?
Honestly, I didn't have anyone in particular in mind (since we're all going to have our own candidates anyway). I personally have a grudge against someone named "Pebbles" who did this one song that was the absolute bane of my existence during a summer job where we had the radio on and it was played every 40 minutes or so and it made me want to throw things. ....I don't think Pebbles did anything else so I don't know if that counts.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:34 AM on May 10
Oh no, not by a long shot. I meant that Method, not even one of their best songs, is better than anything by Styx, Eagles, etc.
The Eagles only good song "Take it Easy", was mostly written by Jackson Browne. Hotel California could have been a decent song with a different set up and take off those boring guitar solos. They also have a few ok songs.
Also, I don't really like the music of Styx, but you can't say they weren't trying - unlike Creed, who where totally just ripping of Alice in Chains and Eddie Vedder's voice. I don't personally think any their experiments worked, but I get it if you do.
Also Soul Asylum -wrote this thing during the sad grunge period as a radio single - "We could build a factory and make misery -Frustrated Incorporated". Of course it was a litmus test of in-group mockery, and didn't become a hit.
Finally CCR was mentioned above: John Fogerty wrote an album track (not a single or greatest hit) with this chorus:
Wrote a song for everyone
Wrote a song for truth
Wrote a song for everyone
When I couldn't even talk to you
If you've never felt like that, you are a lucky person. So they are alright in my book.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on May 10
The Eagles only good song "Take it Easy", was mostly written by Jackson Browne. Hotel California could have been a decent song with a different set up and take off those boring guitar solos. They also have a few ok songs.
Also, I don't really like the music of Styx, but you can't say they weren't trying - unlike Creed, who where totally just ripping of Alice in Chains and Eddie Vedder's voice. I don't personally think any their experiments worked, but I get it if you do.
Also Soul Asylum -wrote this thing during the sad grunge period as a radio single - "We could build a factory and make misery -Frustrated Incorporated". Of course it was a litmus test of in-group mockery, and didn't become a hit.
Finally CCR was mentioned above: John Fogerty wrote an album track (not a single or greatest hit) with this chorus:
Wrote a song for everyone
Wrote a song for truth
Wrote a song for everyone
When I couldn't even talk to you
If you've never felt like that, you are a lucky person. So they are alright in my book.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on May 10
Also Soul Asylum -wrote this thing during the sad grunge period as a radio single - "We could build a factory and make misery -Frustrated Incorporated ". Of course it was a litmus test of in-group mockery, and didn't become a hit.
If hitting number one on Billboard's Modern Rock charts isn't becoming a hit, I don't know what is. That song was massive. Weird Al parodied it for crying out loud.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:53 AM on May 10 [3 favorites]
If hitting number one on Billboard's Modern Rock charts isn't becoming a hit, I don't know what is. That song was massive. Weird Al parodied it for crying out loud.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:53 AM on May 10 [3 favorites]
ashbury: Come Sail Away is ridiculous?
Yes? I mean, yes. And that’s what makes it great. A normal band would’ve written a song about wanting to escape humanity by going out on a boat. An out there band would’ve written a song about a guy wanting to escape humanity by going out on a boat and encountering a host of angels that will whisk him away to heaven. But that wasn’t enough for Styx, no, in Come Sail Away the angels are actually aliens, and he’s going to sail the stars with them.
That said, my favorite song of theirs is the comparatively subtle The Best of Times.
posted by Kattullus at 12:36 PM on May 10 [2 favorites]
Yes? I mean, yes. And that’s what makes it great. A normal band would’ve written a song about wanting to escape humanity by going out on a boat. An out there band would’ve written a song about a guy wanting to escape humanity by going out on a boat and encountering a host of angels that will whisk him away to heaven. But that wasn’t enough for Styx, no, in Come Sail Away the angels are actually aliens, and he’s going to sail the stars with them.
That said, my favorite song of theirs is the comparatively subtle The Best of Times.
posted by Kattullus at 12:36 PM on May 10 [2 favorites]
Fair, the lyrics are ridiculous but the music and the vocal delivery most definitely aren't. I'm pretty sure that we can all list off dozens of fantastic songs right off the top of our heads that have ridiculous lyrics, it's not exactly unusual in the world of music. :)
Best of Times is a fantastic track! Too Much Time on my Hands from the same album was also a banger.
pxe2000 At what, playing a string of 16th notes with his mouth open? He was never anything other than an above-average guitarist with a vocal stan army.
I've been struggling all day, trying not to respond to this because there's really no point when it's subjective and purely a matter of opinion. You win.
You are absolutely correct that there are better guitar players than him and he was eclipsed in later years by younger and better musicians. He's not as innovative as Jeff Beck (really, who is?) or Jimmy Page, not the picker like Richard Thompson, and sure, not Tom Verlaine although not far off, in my opinion but that doesn't change the fact that he was an integral part of a very important time of intense growth in rock music. Personally, I'm not into fanatic idolization of anybody - Clapton is most definitely not god but he did a few things that were hugely influential to current and future guitarists. Shit, the stuff that he did in Cream alone makes him worthy of being in the conversation but then there's what he did with the Bluesbreakers and the Yardbirds, later in Blind Faith and Derek and the Dominoes.
I don't know him as a human being other than what he's publicly said relatively recently and I strongly disagree with all of it. That Clapton sucks ass but the musical Clapton from the 60's and early 70's was worth listening to. Separating the art from the artist isn't always easy, unfortunately.
posted by ashbury at 9:00 PM on May 10 [1 favorite]
Best of Times is a fantastic track! Too Much Time on my Hands from the same album was also a banger.
pxe2000 At what, playing a string of 16th notes with his mouth open? He was never anything other than an above-average guitarist with a vocal stan army.
I've been struggling all day, trying not to respond to this because there's really no point when it's subjective and purely a matter of opinion. You win.
You are absolutely correct that there are better guitar players than him and he was eclipsed in later years by younger and better musicians. He's not as innovative as Jeff Beck (really, who is?) or Jimmy Page, not the picker like Richard Thompson, and sure, not Tom Verlaine although not far off, in my opinion but that doesn't change the fact that he was an integral part of a very important time of intense growth in rock music. Personally, I'm not into fanatic idolization of anybody - Clapton is most definitely not god but he did a few things that were hugely influential to current and future guitarists. Shit, the stuff that he did in Cream alone makes him worthy of being in the conversation but then there's what he did with the Bluesbreakers and the Yardbirds, later in Blind Faith and Derek and the Dominoes.
I don't know him as a human being other than what he's publicly said relatively recently and I strongly disagree with all of it. That Clapton sucks ass but the musical Clapton from the 60's and early 70's was worth listening to. Separating the art from the artist isn't always easy, unfortunately.
posted by ashbury at 9:00 PM on May 10 [1 favorite]
This song is the only thing Clapton did that I genuinely admire.
posted by signal at 1:53 PM on May 11 [1 favorite]
posted by signal at 1:53 PM on May 11 [1 favorite]
@The Manwich Horror:
I, too, like Jethro Tull. That makes two of us.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 12:05 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]
I, too, like Jethro Tull. That makes two of us.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 12:05 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]
And, kust to add:
It's still OK to hate Nickelback.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 12:07 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]
It's still OK to hate Nickelback.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 12:07 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]
"Come Sail Away" is absolutely a ludicrous song, and it is also great, and my fondest memory is of performing it as the opening salvo for my old band's album release party, sung by the drummer in a full-body cow costume. Sadly this was before the days of ubiquitous cellphone videos.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:53 AM on May 21 [2 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:53 AM on May 21 [2 favorites]
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