It becomes apparent there were at least three versions of the dough

May 16, 2024 12:42 PM

Let’s go back to December 1942, to the corner of Wabash and Ohio, to a small abandoned basement tavern that was also once a pizzeria named the Pelican Tap. The new tenants living directly above the abandoned tavern are a recently married couple with their newborn daughter. The 39-year-old father is the painter and restaurateur Richard Riccardo, owner of the famous Riccardo’s Studio Restaurant on Rush Street. from The Secret History of the Original Deep-Dish Crust [Chicago]
posted by chavenet (41 comments total)

Just to head some things off: if you don't like deep dish pizza, it does not mean you don't like "Chicago pizza."

Chicagoans primarily eat thin, flat, "tavern-style" pizza, cut into squares.

People in this area do also eat deep dish, but for like... a change. Not regularly.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:55 PM on May 16 [16 favorites]

Fine, I guess I'll make some more pizza. :)
posted by drewbage1847 at 1:11 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]

Yep, got three doughs rising in the oven right now. PIZZA!!
posted by wenestvedt at 1:14 PM on May 16 [2 favorites]

I have eaten my share of Deep-dish around the city and for me the best are

LaBriola Grand just off Michigan Ave. Mag Mile. Especially the Burrata Pizza.

Bartoli's at Addison and Damen.

For slices I go to Art of Pizza in the South Loop. But I think the sandwiches here are the better deal!

The chain places like Uno, Lou, Gino's, Giordano's (which is actually a stuffed crust), Pizano's etc.; just don't do it for me. Either too doughy or too sweet or too bland. Especially Gino's East.

The new king according to the people I trust is George's in Rogers Park, where you have to order in advance as he only makes a certain number everyday, and is open only for a few hours. Haven't had that yet. Looking forward to it, though!
posted by indianbadger1 at 1:15 PM on May 16 [9 favorites]

This was an interesting read, even for someone who would never eat such a concoction.
The story really gives a good feeling of all the characters.

I have a pizza dough in my fridge right now, as part of an endless quest to recreate a pizza rossa I had on a roadtrip with my parents when I was 8. I'm getting closer, but I'm not there yet, at 60.
posted by mumimor at 1:15 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]

Off the topic of the chicago deep dish pizza. My wife has a long standing nostalgia for old school Pizza Hut pan pizza like it used to be. (It's gone from being meh back in the day to "wth is this crap" today). This recipe is really damn fool proof and gets the idea right with it almost being an olive oil fried focaccia on the edges. (Fool Proof Pan Pizza - Serious Eats / J. Kenji Lopez-Alt)
posted by drewbage1847 at 1:21 PM on May 16 [12 favorites]

When I was a little kid, my father would sometimes bring home pizza from Uno, but by the time I was a teenager, we were getting our pizza elsewhere.

Years later, living a thousand miles away, I ordered from a Detroit-style pizza place that opened in my town. When I went to pick it up, the smell of it gave me a real Proust-with-his-madeleines moment. It smelled exactly like those Uno pizzas my dad used to bring home, something I hadn't had in almost 50 years. They say smell is the sense of memory and they're right.

I'm pretty sure my parents dragged my sisters and me to Riccardo's once when I was a kid, because it was an institution they wanted us to have some connection to. I had no idea it was related to Uno.
posted by adamrice at 1:28 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]

I swore off deep dish years ago after having had way too much terrible heavy Uno's, but I had guests from Portland in last year and deep dish was on their Chicago checklist, so we tried Pequod's. And you know what, I was pleasantly surprised. Not too heavy, nicely balanced. I'm still going to be a tavern- or New York-style guy most days but I can see the occasional Pequod's now.

(on not-preview: adamrice no offense to your happy Uno's memories)
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:39 PM on May 16 [2 favorites]

I'm guessing Godfather's Pizza was supposed to be something close to Chicago deep dish?

I remember being a ravenous teenager and able to eat an entire large godfathers deluxe combo by myself, and still skinny as a rail.

I wonder if the Godfather's in Moses Lake is still open. It was the last one I knew of that was open, only got there once about 15 years ago.
posted by hippybear at 1:48 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]

Chicagoans primarily eat thin, flat, "tavern-style" pizza, cut into squares.

We had a couple from Chicago who brought this to our Virginia town for years and it was hands down our favorite pizza place to go to. Then they just decided to go back to Chicago and there's been a pie shaped hole in my heart ever since.
posted by Atreides at 1:54 PM on May 16 [4 favorites]

Both deep dish and tavern-style are good pizzas. No need to pick one. And I also say if you want ketchup on your Chicago dog go for it. If it sounds good to you do it.
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:56 PM on May 16 [5 favorites]

Mmmmm, Godfathers…

Had a spice in the sauce that almost no one uses any more. And pretty close to deep-dish for a chain place
posted by Windopaene at 2:13 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]

The first time I went to Chicago I tried deep-dish pizza and really liked it. We don't have deep-dish here in Toronto, a restaurant will pop up for a while and then go under, so pretty much every time I've gone through Chicago, including O'Hare airport, I've gotten deep-dish and enjoyed it. I probably should just learn how to make it myself.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:15 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]

We don't have deep-dish here in Toronto

No, but you have Descendant Detroit Style Pizza and I will trade you two Pizzeria Uno locations for one of those. That stuff will make you eat until you want to die, then have a few more pieces besides. We get the Truff Ghi every time we visit the cousins there: Cheese, Caramelized Onions, Truffle Aioli, Roasted Garlic Cremini Mushrooms, Grana Padano Cheese, Double Smoked Bacon, Lemon Zest, Fresh Thyme.

That might actually be my very favorite pizza place.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:29 PM on May 16 [3 favorites]

I became acquainted with Chicago deep dish in the 1970s Uno incarnation. It was a smallish hole-in-the-wall place where the interior was completely covered in graffiti. Later, when Uno became a chain, their product became something else entirely, which I would not really want to eat.

In those days, there was plenty of pizza-eating in and around Chicago that wasn't Pizzeria Uno (or Pizzeria Due), and most of it was the thinner pie (not as thin as NY style, not nearly as thin as scuola antica d'Italia) cut into squares. East Coast pizza under NY influence uses a crust that consists only of flour, water, oil, salt, and yeast, while the crusts of northern Illinois pizzas to this day often have dairy products and sugar.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 2:30 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]

Chicagoans primarily eat thin, flat, "tavern-style" pizza, cut into squares.

There's a place here in town called Duane's House of Pizza that has been around forever which has this style of pizza, which is our absolute favorite. People either love or despise it.

Then, that restaurant stopped delivering and their locations all turned into pub-style sports bars that are loud and crowded and not conducive to just going out and getting a pizza 😢 Sometimes we still have to give in, though, to get our Duane's Pizza fix.
posted by AzraelBrown at 2:37 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]

After decades of putting my pizza stone in the middle or middle-top rack position, a recipe for tavern-style pizza told me to put my pizza stone on the rack that is basically against the heating element.

It changed my pizza baking entirely. Not just for tavern-style, which is VERY thin crust OMG, but for any pizza style. In fact, I just leave the stone in the oven all the time, and the oven seems to work better with it in there.
posted by hippybear at 2:39 PM on May 16 [5 favorites]

A TOAST TO PEACE BETWEEN NEW YORK AND CHICAGO
posted by lalochezia at 3:25 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]

No, but you have Descendant Detroit Style Pizza and I will trade you two Pizzeria Uno locations for one of those.

I'll try them out. I had Detroit Style Pizza once while visiting Detroit and it was good but not a replacement for Chicago deep dish.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:59 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]

I found out about deep-dish when I moved to DC in 1982, 2 blocks away from Armand's.
But going to Chicago in the 80's, I experienced Pizzeria Uno and Due. Heaven.
I'm not fond of the Uno chain, but memories of those two joints to me is pizza heaven.
Pepperoni and sausage. And a fuckton of cheese.
Ah, my arteries...
posted by MtDewd at 6:31 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]

Torontonians can come to Hamilton for their regional pizza needs:

• Chicago Style Pizza (of Hamilton)
• Mai Pai for a Detroit-style experience
• Cowabunga for the Best Cheese Slice

posted by clicking the 'Post Comment' button at 6:50 PM on May 16 [1 favorite]

Descendant Detroit Style Pizza

This is the only pizza I miss after I had my coeliac diagnosis. I dream about that pizza.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:31 PM on May 16 [2 favorites]

A few years back I had a roommate who went to visit some friends in Chicago. Apparently, when he landed back in New York, he asked the taxi to take him to our nearest pizza place instead of taking him directly home; there, he bought a whole pie. I was home when he finally returned - he opened the door, dropped his suitcases right there, and walked over to the kitchen table with the pizza box in hand. He dropped it on the table, flung the box open, and then turned to me and pointed at it and dramatically announced "Now this is pizza!" He then picked up two huge slices and started eating as I cracked up.

....I will say, though - New York has my heart for pizza, but you guys have my heart for hot dogs. I've visited Chicago once and went through a full 36-hour period eating nothing but. I once was visiting Paris and the flight was on Christmas Day, and I had to connect through O'Hare - I used it as an excuse to have a Chicago style hot dog as Christmas Dinner that year.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:13 AM on May 17 [4 favorites]

I know what I'm doing when I finish building my time machine.
posted by goatdog at 5:40 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]

Chicagoans primarily eat thin, flat, "tavern-style" pizza, cut into squares.

When I actually lived in Chicago, as a teen in the late 70s/early 80s, I never saw this style, let alone had it. I suspect that it's primarily eaten in taverns by people who are drinking because it's easier to handle when you're drunk. (That's where and why I primarily ate it, anyway.) In conclusion, Chicago pizza is a dish of contrasts.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:20 AM on May 17

I suspect that it's primarily eaten in taverns by people who are drinking because it's easier to handle when you're drunk.

I was told that Home Run Inn purposely made their crusts extra salty to sell more beer. Also, they gave cops free pizza which in turn meant their was always a cop presence on site. (Told by my grandparents who lived 3 miles from the Berwyn location. EVERY time we went over, we had their pizza.)

Of all the Chicago chain pizzas to go nationwide in the frozen section of the grocery store... why Home Run Inn?
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 8:06 AM on May 17

Chicagoans primarily eat thin, flat, "tavern-style" pizza, cut into squares.

It's cut into a grid, like our streets!
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:36 AM on May 17 [2 favorites]

Of all the Chicago chain pizzas to go nationwide in the frozen section of the grocery store... why Home Run Inn?

Making a pizza that freezes and reheats well is a different trick than making a good one fresh. Vito & Nick's have far superior fresh pizza, but their frozen pizza is... not so good. It's certainly not as good heated from the freezer as the ones from HRI. Uno also has a middling frozen pizza version. Lou Malnati's makes great frozen pizza, but it's not traditinal frozen pizza you can ship in bulk, it's made in each store, cooked part of the way, and then tinned up for you to take home and finish in your oven. So nationwide isn't really an option.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:46 AM on May 17

We grew up with Godfathers Pizza. The stretchy cheese and thicker crust and abundant sauce. Godfathers over time went from prepping virtually everything in house to having everything premade and delivered in a truck. The current Godfathers is basically a super sweet thick crust frozen pizza.

If you're craving the way Godfathers used to be, the first franchise Godfathers is still open in Columbus Nebraska, and it still makes pizzas (mostly) the way they used to be made. The difference between the first franchise and all of the other Godfathers is night and day. The crust is lighter, crispier, much less sweet. The sauce is tangier and thicker and, as mentioned above, has abundant oregano. The cheese actually stretches, and the toppings taste like they were made locally instead of coming out of a bag. They still had the old fashioned 1970s vintage oven which makes a huge difference in how the crust turns out.

Is it worth an hour or two drive to have the Godfathers combo pizza of your youth? Yes, yes it is.
posted by ensign_ricky at 10:47 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]

The Godfathers in Owensboro, KY when I was growing up had a window into the kitchen where you could watch them hand toss the dough. Six year old me thought that was the greatest thing in human history.

For a week or so, I went from telling everyone I wanted to be an astronaut to telling people I wanted to be the guy who threw the dough at Godfathers.

The current illegitimate version of Godfathers is literally sold in gas stations where I live now.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:01 PM on May 17

sugar? that sounds disgusting
posted by awfurby at 1:06 AM on May 18

also that style of pizza that is cut into squares isn't really a chicago thing - it just sounds like pizza al taglio from Rome, which is delicious.
posted by awfurby at 1:10 AM on May 18

No one is saying we invented that. We're saying it's what we choose to eat.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:12 AM on May 18

I tried to make a thin crust Minnesota style pizza, with a store bought ball of dough, and in honor of this thread’s inspiration put bonus sauce on top of the toppings. Crust was just too fluffy. Going to have to make my own low-yeast crust or something…
posted by Windopaene at 1:31 PM on May 18

Pizza al taglio is nothing like these pizzas. Those pizzas in Rome? So good. But also so much like the cafeteria pizza we got in high school, more topping offerings though. But two squares of that pizza for lunch has you ready to go to the next place.
posted by Windopaene at 1:37 PM on May 18

America's Test Kitchen on Tavern-style Pizza. [11m30s]
posted by hippybear at 1:40 PM on May 18 [2 favorites]

also that style of pizza that is cut into squares isn't really a chicago thing - it just sounds like pizza al taglio from Rome, which is delicious.

While pizza al taglio is no doubt delicious, tavern-style pizza is indeed a Chicago thing, one that predates deep dish by at least a decade. Both the style of crust and the square cut arose out of the convenience (or laziness if you prefer) of tavern owners and their patrons on Chicago's South Side around the end of Prohibition. (Some say before even, but of course nobody in Chicago was drinking during Prohibition, what a ridiculous idea.)

Deeper than Deep Dish: The Case for Chicago as America's Pizza Capital (historians.org)
Tavern Style Isn't Just Chicago's Signature Pizza, but Its Signature Food (chicagomag.com)
In Praise of the Chicago Tavern-Style Thin Crust Pizza (pastemagazine.com)

Beyond the signature square cut, Chicago tavern style is also distinguished by the sauce, the cheese, and the toppings (particularly the fennel-heavy sausage). I encourage you to come to Chicago and try some.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 11:03 AM on May 20 [3 favorites]

Now I have to ask, did the tavern pizza migrate down to St. Louis and become the thin crust pizza that's cut into squares (a la Imo's)? Or is this just a result of both places having large Italian immigrant populations? [throws questions into the ether]
posted by Atreides at 11:33 AM on May 20

Amedeo Fiore was a Chicago native before he moved to St. Louis and opened Melrose Pizzeria. He is "widely credited with bringing pizza west of the Mississippi River. His culinary creation kicked off what we now know as St. Louis-style pizza."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:02 PM on May 20 [3 favorites]

Ah, thank you DirtyOldTown!

And

"With scissors Amedeo Fiore ... cuts pizza into squares for serving," the 1947 article on Fiore said. "The squares, held with a paper napkin, are eaten from the hand."

WUT.

Just imagining going to the pizza shop and seeing someone cutting the pizza like wrapping paper or something.
posted by Atreides at 6:55 AM on May 21

The real question is what happened to him that he thought provel cheese was the way to go and what witchcraft got the city of St. Louis to go along with him.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:23 AM on May 21