¿democracia en acción?
August 23, 2006 1:15 AM Subscribe
Mexico City post-election protests, which began on July 30th at the instigation of López Obrador, former mayor and alleged "loser" of the July 2 federal election, now cover a
12-kilometer (7.5 - mile) stretch of Paseo de la Reforma,
one of the main arteries of one of the world's largest cities. Some see it as a party, others see it as
ridiculous.
In any case, a crisis of legitimacy is at hand, as all eyes await the announcement, due by Sept. 6 from "Trife",
the Electoral Tribunal of the Federal Judiciary, which will either decide the winner, or annul the result and call for new elections.
With partisans of Obrador already claiming that the results of the recent partial recount
suggest systematic fraud, it's unlikely that a smooth resolution is going to come any time soon.
After reading Confessions of an Economic Hitman, it would not surprise me at all if we assisted in the vote fraud. It's a very good book, well worth reading. Basically, when corporate interests are threatened, we will often intervene, and we play dirty.
posted by Malor at 2:50 AM on August 23, 2006
posted by Malor at 2:50 AM on August 23, 2006
Remember when Bush was installed by our Supreme Court and millions of the angry majority who'd been disenfranchised by the Court's decision took to the streets for months in protest?
posted by eustacescrubb at 4:02 AM on August 23, 2006
posted by eustacescrubb at 4:02 AM on August 23, 2006
To be honest with elections this close (such as the US 2004 race in Florida) whats the point of a recount? Might as well just flip a coin.
I mean what is the Practical benefit of letting someone who receives 50,000,001 votes rule while the loser with 49,999,999 votes can stuff it? How is A more the "Will of the people" then B?
A re-vote, would be the most reasonable thing, followed by some how forcing the two people to work together in some way.
posted by delmoi at 4:46 AM on August 23, 2006
I mean what is the Practical benefit of letting someone who receives 50,000,001 votes rule while the loser with 49,999,999 votes can stuff it? How is A more the "Will of the people" then B?
A re-vote, would be the most reasonable thing, followed by some how forcing the two people to work together in some way.
posted by delmoi at 4:46 AM on August 23, 2006
Remember when Bush was installed by our Supreme Court and millions of the angry majority who'd been disenfranchised by the Court's decision took to the streets for months in protest?
To be fair, there were some sizeable protests, they were just not broadly covered by the media. That said, I have often asked myself if therelative lack of outrage over having the vote usurped in this way was the natural result of American apathy, or the fact that the Albert Gore (the "lock box" Al Gore of 2000, not the impassioned man of the past couple years) inspired such tepid support. If it had been Bill Clinton, say, perhaps there actually would have been much more vociferous and widespread protests.
posted by Hypnic jerk at 5:07 AM on August 23, 2006
To be fair, there were some sizeable protests, they were just not broadly covered by the media. That said, I have often asked myself if therelative lack of outrage over having the vote usurped in this way was the natural result of American apathy, or the fact that the Albert Gore (the "lock box" Al Gore of 2000, not the impassioned man of the past couple years) inspired such tepid support. If it had been Bill Clinton, say, perhaps there actually would have been much more vociferous and widespread protests.
posted by Hypnic jerk at 5:07 AM on August 23, 2006
whats the point of a recount?
If it turns up (or confirms) evidence of fraud it is valuable.
If it refutes accusations of fraud it is valuable.
It is essential that disputed elections be looked at verrrrrry closely if the public is to trust the system.
posted by D.C. at 5:57 AM on August 23, 2006
If it turns up (or confirms) evidence of fraud it is valuable.
If it refutes accusations of fraud it is valuable.
It is essential that disputed elections be looked at verrrrrry closely if the public is to trust the system.
posted by D.C. at 5:57 AM on August 23, 2006
I have often asked myself if therelative lack of outrage over having the vote usurped in this way was the natural result of American apathy, or the fact that the Albert Gore (the "lock box" Al Gore of 2000, not the impassioned man of the past couple years) inspired such tepid support.
You forgot option #3.
No one wants to disturb their status quo...risk loosing what they have.
How many of the protesters in Mexico have nothing to loose, and feel like they have something to gain?
(It doesn't hurt that a filmmaker caught some interesting election bits on film and DVD's of what he caught on film have circulated)
Woe be to America when the entitlements get cut...
posted by rough ashlar at 6:03 AM on August 23, 2006
You forgot option #3.
No one wants to disturb their status quo...risk loosing what they have.
How many of the protesters in Mexico have nothing to loose, and feel like they have something to gain?
(It doesn't hurt that a filmmaker caught some interesting election bits on film and DVD's of what he caught on film have circulated)
Woe be to America when the entitlements get cut...
posted by rough ashlar at 6:03 AM on August 23, 2006
Alleged loser? How about we liberals own up to the fact that Obrador did not win the election. Chavez has said as much already.
posted by parmanparman at 6:09 AM on August 23, 2006
posted by parmanparman at 6:09 AM on August 23, 2006
Greg Palast:
The Bush Administration, under the guise of a secret War on Terror contract, hired ChoicePoint Inc. to filch the voter and citizen files of Mexico. These are the same characters (the Bushes and ChoicePoint) who helped purge Florida’s voter rolls of African-Americans before the 2000 race. Were the Mexican rolls “scrubbed” with Dubya’s help? And what exactly was the International Republican Institute, the imperial arm of the GOP, doing down there? Shouldn’t someone ask? Shouldn’t someone investigate?
Too many uncounted votes, too many blocked voters, too many statistics missing from the official tallies to jump to the automatic conclusion of US mainstream media, that this election was Mexico’s first “clean” vote. It may look clean and neat from the Intercontinental Hotel in Mexico City where reporters shuttle from bar to press conference. But sniffing into the garbage piles and ballot piles of Veracruz, it smells more like Ohio con salsa.
posted by wfc123 at 6:40 AM on August 23, 2006
The Bush Administration, under the guise of a secret War on Terror contract, hired ChoicePoint Inc. to filch the voter and citizen files of Mexico. These are the same characters (the Bushes and ChoicePoint) who helped purge Florida’s voter rolls of African-Americans before the 2000 race. Were the Mexican rolls “scrubbed” with Dubya’s help? And what exactly was the International Republican Institute, the imperial arm of the GOP, doing down there? Shouldn’t someone ask? Shouldn’t someone investigate?
Too many uncounted votes, too many blocked voters, too many statistics missing from the official tallies to jump to the automatic conclusion of US mainstream media, that this election was Mexico’s first “clean” vote. It may look clean and neat from the Intercontinental Hotel in Mexico City where reporters shuttle from bar to press conference. But sniffing into the garbage piles and ballot piles of Veracruz, it smells more like Ohio con salsa.
posted by wfc123 at 6:40 AM on August 23, 2006
The concerts and music around the protest sites are amazing and there is a wonderful sense of camraderie. For a European visiting in August it was the first time I have ever seen such a big public protest. However, some protests soon turn to violence and apparently a right wing bunch shot a protester in Oaxaca recently. I found the media I was reading there very partisan, one side had me convinced there was major vote-rigging, the other that everything was sweetness and light and that AMLO was responsibile for a reduction in Tourism which was as bad as Hurricane Wilma. It was difficult to see how this would be resolved, but I have no doubt that the Trife announcement will not be accpeted by AMLO supporters.
Also taking a quick straw poll of taxi drivers I spoke to they all pointed out that Calderon winning would make for a smoother legislature as the lower house was mainly conservative, and they were concerned that anything else would cause big difficulties in getting legislation ennacted. But that was in the Yucatan which is a conservative area anyway.
Thanks for keeping me up to date as so far the media here are largly ignoring this.
posted by Wilder at 6:41 AM on August 23, 2006
Also taking a quick straw poll of taxi drivers I spoke to they all pointed out that Calderon winning would make for a smoother legislature as the lower house was mainly conservative, and they were concerned that anything else would cause big difficulties in getting legislation ennacted. But that was in the Yucatan which is a conservative area anyway.
Thanks for keeping me up to date as so far the media here are largly ignoring this.
posted by Wilder at 6:41 AM on August 23, 2006
Recounting the votes is important for the new-Mexican democracy to remain alive. Remember that in Mexico this is the second time since 1910 that 'real' elections take place (the first one on 2000). Mexicans need to have confidence in the electoral system (after 70+ years of PRI-fraudalent elections, there's a big wound to heal) for democracy to flourish.
posted by dov3 at 6:42 AM on August 23, 2006
posted by dov3 at 6:42 AM on August 23, 2006
Also taking a quick straw poll of taxi drivers I spoke to they all pointed out that Calderon winning would make for a smoother legislature as the lower house was mainly conservative, and they were concerned that anything else would cause big difficulties in getting legislation ennacted.
Hehe. Exactly like if Gore had won the Presidency.
posted by smackfu at 7:17 AM on August 23, 2006
Hehe. Exactly like if Gore had won the Presidency.
posted by smackfu at 7:17 AM on August 23, 2006
Recounting the votes is important for the new-Mexican democracy to remain alive. Remember that in Mexico this is the second time since 1910 that 'real' elections take place (the first one on 2000). Mexicans need to have confidence in the electoral system (after 70+ years of PRI-fraudalent elections, there's a big wound to heal) for democracy to flourish.
It is vital, and it makes the decision not to do a total recount completely suspicious. Supposedly there's been enough evidence turned up from the partial recount alone that shows widespread mismatch of numbers and totals that don't at all compare to the previously stated results.
posted by amberglow at 8:06 AM on August 23, 2006
It is vital, and it makes the decision not to do a total recount completely suspicious. Supposedly there's been enough evidence turned up from the partial recount alone that shows widespread mismatch of numbers and totals that don't at all compare to the previously stated results.
posted by amberglow at 8:06 AM on August 23, 2006
Endgame Engulfs Mexico--... But while these hijinks grabbed the cameras, behind locked doors in 149 district offices of the much-abused IFE and indeed staffed by the same IFE technicians who had fouled the July 2 vote, the partial recount proceeded under the eyes of hurriedly appointed members of the judiciary, not all of them of proven probity by any means, and the representatives of the political parties. The press was locked out, permitted in only for photo ops and on-the-fly interviews with party reps. But despite the absence of hard info, the numbers began to flow sub rosa early on.
Inside the counting rooms, Mexico's 2006 presidential election, exalted by the U.S. State Department as a paragon of democracy, was not a pretty sight. Hundreds of ballot boxes warehoused under military guard had been broken into, their seals ripped open, and the contents contaminated. Sometimes the ballots were scattered on the floor of the warehouse, sometimes there were no ballots inside the boxes to verify what the tally sheets ("actas") affirmed. When AMLO's representatives grew apoplectic at the wholesale fraud, the judges ordered the military to expel them from the recount.
Jalisco, a PAN citadel, was the first state to report results on election night--there was a governor's race on the ballot as well as the presidential vote and the PAN seemed to have kicked ass, building up a 70 per cent landslide. But the results seemed so out of whack with national numbers (Calderon was awarded a highly dubious .58 per cent victory by the IFE) that the judges ordered more than 1700 casillas in the state reopened.
The new count did not sustain Calderon's Election Day claims. In 15 ballot boxes in District 3 (Tepatitlan), the PANista had been awarded 2700 votes according to the tally sheets that could not be found in the ballot boxes. Lopez Obrador, meanwhile, picked up 250 votes in the district, about 12 per casilla--Calderon's disputed 243,000 "victory" breaks down to about 1.8 per casilla. ...
posted by amberglow at 8:10 AM on August 23, 2006
Inside the counting rooms, Mexico's 2006 presidential election, exalted by the U.S. State Department as a paragon of democracy, was not a pretty sight. Hundreds of ballot boxes warehoused under military guard had been broken into, their seals ripped open, and the contents contaminated. Sometimes the ballots were scattered on the floor of the warehouse, sometimes there were no ballots inside the boxes to verify what the tally sheets ("actas") affirmed. When AMLO's representatives grew apoplectic at the wholesale fraud, the judges ordered the military to expel them from the recount.
Jalisco, a PAN citadel, was the first state to report results on election night--there was a governor's race on the ballot as well as the presidential vote and the PAN seemed to have kicked ass, building up a 70 per cent landslide. But the results seemed so out of whack with national numbers (Calderon was awarded a highly dubious .58 per cent victory by the IFE) that the judges ordered more than 1700 casillas in the state reopened.
The new count did not sustain Calderon's Election Day claims. In 15 ballot boxes in District 3 (Tepatitlan), the PANista had been awarded 2700 votes according to the tally sheets that could not be found in the ballot boxes. Lopez Obrador, meanwhile, picked up 250 votes in the district, about 12 per casilla--Calderon's disputed 243,000 "victory" breaks down to about 1.8 per casilla. ...
posted by amberglow at 8:10 AM on August 23, 2006
I find it absolutely awe inspiring that these people actually care enough about the outcome of their election to do something about the fact that it was likely stolen from them. Many people in our country think nothing of talking about Mexicans as if they were all here illegally, even those who have been here for hundreds of years. It's really refreshing to see them stand up to their government and make their democracy accountable to "the people".
posted by trigby at 8:22 AM on August 23, 2006
posted by trigby at 8:22 AM on August 23, 2006
I was in Cd Mexico last week and stayed near the Zócalo which has transformed into one giant tent city. Av Juarez was shut down and there were actually carnival rides on the street in front of the Palacio Belles Artes. The artist's signs were great. It is clear the AMLO supporters are passionate about their cause and even though many have resigned to the fact Calderon will be president, feel the recount is important to make sure that the votes were counted. I just wished we had that kind of support on this side of the border in 2000.
Although Reforma and several other streets were blocked, good taxi drivers knew shortcuts to get around. And the Metro was, as always packed.
posted by birdherder at 8:31 AM on August 23, 2006
Although Reforma and several other streets were blocked, good taxi drivers knew shortcuts to get around. And the Metro was, as always packed.
posted by birdherder at 8:31 AM on August 23, 2006
How about we liberals own up to the fact that Obrador did not win the election.
Well I suppose this is up to the Judicial Tribunal to decide, as they would seem to be the final authority on the matter. I don't pretend to have an opinion one way or another - and I'm assuming that if a matter is still under judicial review that any supposed result is still "alleged", regardless of the likelihood of this being the final outcome, until such time as the ruling is handed down.
A friend of mine, who works in the elections field, recently returned from a vacation in southern mexico, and his "straw poll" of taxi drivers and the like suggested overwhelming distrust in the process and the result.
The point is, if a large number of citizens have no confidence in the process, then the whole thing becomes a charade. The whole point of elections is to make the losing side concede and accept the result. The solution is more transparency, more public participation and scrutiny of the whole process. Elections are important, and it's every citizen's responsibility to try to understand the process and verify that things are conducted fairly at every step of the way. And if this can't be verified, to reform the system so that results can be proven and verified to everyone's satisfaction.
I think the key difference between this election and the eerily similar recent American elections is that the "losing" candidate is the one who called for a "permanent protest" to force a recount. Imagine if Al Gore had stood up after the 2000 elections and called for a similar public expression of "non confidence" by occupying the Mall in Washington....
posted by dinsdale at 9:05 AM on August 23, 2006
Well I suppose this is up to the Judicial Tribunal to decide, as they would seem to be the final authority on the matter. I don't pretend to have an opinion one way or another - and I'm assuming that if a matter is still under judicial review that any supposed result is still "alleged", regardless of the likelihood of this being the final outcome, until such time as the ruling is handed down.
A friend of mine, who works in the elections field, recently returned from a vacation in southern mexico, and his "straw poll" of taxi drivers and the like suggested overwhelming distrust in the process and the result.
The point is, if a large number of citizens have no confidence in the process, then the whole thing becomes a charade. The whole point of elections is to make the losing side concede and accept the result. The solution is more transparency, more public participation and scrutiny of the whole process. Elections are important, and it's every citizen's responsibility to try to understand the process and verify that things are conducted fairly at every step of the way. And if this can't be verified, to reform the system so that results can be proven and verified to everyone's satisfaction.
I think the key difference between this election and the eerily similar recent American elections is that the "losing" candidate is the one who called for a "permanent protest" to force a recount. Imagine if Al Gore had stood up after the 2000 elections and called for a similar public expression of "non confidence" by occupying the Mall in Washington....
posted by dinsdale at 9:05 AM on August 23, 2006
Maybe the protesters should just start blogging, and then they can whine about how their candidate was robbed long after everyone else has moved on...
posted by Durwood at 10:03 AM on August 23, 2006
posted by Durwood at 10:03 AM on August 23, 2006
durwood: quit your whining about so-called "whiners". you sound like a little girl.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:19 AM on August 23, 2006
posted by saulgoodman at 11:19 AM on August 23, 2006
You don't actually "move on" from wholesale election rigging. You can learn to bend over and take it like a man, I guess, but why would we anybody take election advice from a US citizen?
posted by signal at 12:07 PM on August 23, 2006
posted by signal at 12:07 PM on August 23, 2006
You don't actually "move on" from wholesale election riggin
Word. The issue here, Durwood, isn't that "my candidate" lost. It's that the Surpreme Court decided that American citizens don't have a guaranteed right to vote. When those five justices decided that thier political party was more important than the principle or the fact of democracy, they betrayed their country. So, yeah, I haven't "moved on" from the fact that I used to live in a democracy and now I live in an oligarchy dedicated to the profits of corporations. I probably never will.
posted by eustacescrubb at 12:13 PM on August 23, 2006
Word. The issue here, Durwood, isn't that "my candidate" lost. It's that the Surpreme Court decided that American citizens don't have a guaranteed right to vote. When those five justices decided that thier political party was more important than the principle or the fact of democracy, they betrayed their country. So, yeah, I haven't "moved on" from the fact that I used to live in a democracy and now I live in an oligarchy dedicated to the profits of corporations. I probably never will.
posted by eustacescrubb at 12:13 PM on August 23, 2006
I simply assume that US black ops have been busy both in Mexico and Canada. Now that South America has gone it's own way, the US oligarchy is saying "that sucks, but no way were gonna let it happen in our own back yard".
posted by telstar at 4:21 PM on August 23, 2006
posted by telstar at 4:21 PM on August 23, 2006
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posted by jeffburdges at 1:38 AM on August 23, 2006