Children losing sleep over global warming
February 25, 2007 10:12 AM Subscribe
Children losing sleep over global warming, with comments from The Scotsman readers.
They have primitive brains and they look like carnie folk. I don't trust 'em.
posted by jimmythefish at 10:37 AM on February 25, 2007
posted by jimmythefish at 10:37 AM on February 25, 2007
This is one of those artificial 'surveys' created by a company with the aim of getting a bit of publicity, and probably a free bit of market research as well. Notice that, in this article, Somerfield (a supermarket chain) is prominently mentioned, along with this telling line:
posted by matthewr at 10:42 AM on February 25, 2007
The study marked Somerfield's drive to reduce the eight billion plastic bags wasted by UK households every year.The idea that pre-teen children actually lose sleep over the major world issues of the day is absurd (as is the idea that children answer these surveys honestly, accurately and seriously). The Somerfield PR guy's quote is nonsense as well: While many adults may look the other way, this study should show that global warming is not only hurting the children of the future, it's affecting the welfare of kids now. I confidently predict that monsters in the cupboard are affecting the sleep and welfare of 7-11 year-olds rather more than global warming.
posted by matthewr at 10:42 AM on February 25, 2007
Why should they lose sleep over global warming. Bush is not.
posted by Postroad at 10:49 AM on February 25, 2007
posted by Postroad at 10:49 AM on February 25, 2007
"Why should they lose sleep over global warming. Bush is not."
Because preteen children are much, much more intelligent than Bush.
posted by HuronBob at 11:00 AM on February 25, 2007 [2 favorites]
The idea that pre-teen children actually lose sleep over the major world issues of the day is absurd
If you'd read When The Wind Blows as a pre-teen, you would definitely have been losing some sleep over the nuclear arms race between the US and USSR. I also remember being told about global warming as a kid and being somewhat worried, though I was old enough that it didn't freak me out the way The Bomb had when I was 8 or so. Children have incredibly vivid imaginations and volatile emotions, and I can easily see some kids genuinely losing sleep over it. In other words, The Bomb was for me one of the Monsters In The Cupboard, no matter how realistic my unrealistic or childlike my conception of the situation was, and I can easily see global warming fulfilling a similar role for kids today.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 11:30 AM on February 25, 2007
If you'd read When The Wind Blows as a pre-teen, you would definitely have been losing some sleep over the nuclear arms race between the US and USSR. I also remember being told about global warming as a kid and being somewhat worried, though I was old enough that it didn't freak me out the way The Bomb had when I was 8 or so. Children have incredibly vivid imaginations and volatile emotions, and I can easily see some kids genuinely losing sleep over it. In other words, The Bomb was for me one of the Monsters In The Cupboard, no matter how realistic my unrealistic or childlike my conception of the situation was, and I can easily see global warming fulfilling a similar role for kids today.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 11:30 AM on February 25, 2007
The idea that pre-teen children actually lose sleep over the major world issues of the day is absurd
Im going to assume you didnt grow up under the threat of nuclear war. Because nightmares about that were very common. Pretty much every friend I had had traumatic dreams at least a couple times a week about that very subject.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:36 AM on February 25, 2007
Im going to assume you didnt grow up under the threat of nuclear war. Because nightmares about that were very common. Pretty much every friend I had had traumatic dreams at least a couple times a week about that very subject.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:36 AM on February 25, 2007
The idea that pre-teen children actually lose sleep over the major world issues of the day is absurd
One of my high school History teachers once told us about a time that he stayed up crying to his parents, terrified that the communists were going to "get him". The irony was that he later became a communist.
The idea that children are not scared of the things adults seem to be scared of is ridiculous.
posted by delmoi at 11:37 AM on February 25, 2007
One of my high school History teachers once told us about a time that he stayed up crying to his parents, terrified that the communists were going to "get him". The irony was that he later became a communist.
The idea that children are not scared of the things adults seem to be scared of is ridiculous.
posted by delmoi at 11:37 AM on February 25, 2007
Ironic? Not at all. The communists DID get him.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 11:56 AM on February 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 11:56 AM on February 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
Like Jon Mitchell and Senor Cardgage, I had frequent nightmares (and daytime thoughts) about nuclear war when I was in upper elementary school and junior high (late 70s/early 80s)... The Cold War had a profound effect on most of us who grew up in that era... Children are more emotionally affected by world issues than most people realize.
posted by amyms at 11:58 AM on February 25, 2007
posted by amyms at 11:58 AM on February 25, 2007
My youngest brother is ten years old and he brings up global warming and the environment on a regular basis. I doubt he loses sleep over it, but I know he worries about it.
I don't know very much about The Scotsman, but I was pretty surprised by the bent of the comments. Specially when that global warming denier told the one guy sticking up for the possibility of global warming, that he "was a dangerous lunatic who better stay the hell away from his kids", or something to that effect. Beware the dangerous environmentalists! They hand out copies of An Inconvenient Truth, wrapped like candy bars, to tempt the children! There are scientists on the loose - do you know where your children are??!!
posted by crackingdes at 12:01 PM on February 25, 2007
I don't know very much about The Scotsman, but I was pretty surprised by the bent of the comments. Specially when that global warming denier told the one guy sticking up for the possibility of global warming, that he "was a dangerous lunatic who better stay the hell away from his kids", or something to that effect. Beware the dangerous environmentalists! They hand out copies of An Inconvenient Truth, wrapped like candy bars, to tempt the children! There are scientists on the loose - do you know where your children are??!!
posted by crackingdes at 12:01 PM on February 25, 2007
The idea that pre-teen children actually lose sleep over the major world issues of the day is absurd
It's not a good thing to have completely forgotten what it was like to be a child.
posted by psmealey at 12:22 PM on February 25, 2007
It's not a good thing to have completely forgotten what it was like to be a child.
posted by psmealey at 12:22 PM on February 25, 2007
The idea that pre-teen children actually lose sleep over the major world issues of the day is absurd
You didn't grow up under the Reagan regime.
posted by dirigibleman at 12:44 PM on February 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
You didn't grow up under the Reagan regime.
posted by dirigibleman at 12:44 PM on February 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
It's not a good thing to have completely forgotten what it was like to be a child.
I was a child not very long ago (still am in some ways, I'm sure...), and I've no doubt I'm younger than the average Mefite. If you asked me, aged 7, in a survey, 'do you lose sleep over any global issues?', I can't imagine that I or any of my peers would have truthfully been able to say yes.
That said, I grew up after the Cold War, and I realise that if I lived through it, the threat of nuclear war could have been very scary indeed for a seven year-old. But global warming? It's such an abstract, unquantifiable thing to be afraid of, like an 18th-century child being afraid of Malthusian catastrophe. I don't for a second deny the danger of global warming, particularly in the long term, and I'm as concerned as anyone else about it. But that concern is on an intellectual level, like being concerned about global financial collapse or asteroid impact or whatever. Are children, let alone adults, really afraid, on a visceral, emotional level, about global warming?
posted by matthewr at 12:46 PM on February 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
I was a child not very long ago (still am in some ways, I'm sure...), and I've no doubt I'm younger than the average Mefite. If you asked me, aged 7, in a survey, 'do you lose sleep over any global issues?', I can't imagine that I or any of my peers would have truthfully been able to say yes.
That said, I grew up after the Cold War, and I realise that if I lived through it, the threat of nuclear war could have been very scary indeed for a seven year-old. But global warming? It's such an abstract, unquantifiable thing to be afraid of, like an 18th-century child being afraid of Malthusian catastrophe. I don't for a second deny the danger of global warming, particularly in the long term, and I'm as concerned as anyone else about it. But that concern is on an intellectual level, like being concerned about global financial collapse or asteroid impact or whatever. Are children, let alone adults, really afraid, on a visceral, emotional level, about global warming?
posted by matthewr at 12:46 PM on February 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
I lost sleep over nuclear annihilation, and I grew up during the 80s. It's totally reasonable to think that some children are spooked by climate change.
posted by BackwardsCity at 1:00 PM on February 25, 2007
posted by BackwardsCity at 1:00 PM on February 25, 2007
As an 11 year old I was terrified about global warming. You remember the book, 50 Simple Things Kids Can Do To Save The Earth? Yeah, I was all over that book when it first came out. Global warming struck me as such a huge, unsolvable problem (still does) that I was thrilled to have something I could do about it. I'll be the first to admit I was an overly anxious child, but I know I did lose sleep about the environment -- not what I could do about it, but that we were all going to die. As Jon Mitchell (and others) said, it was the monster in the cupboard for me.
posted by katemonster at 1:05 PM on February 25, 2007
posted by katemonster at 1:05 PM on February 25, 2007
If you asked me, aged 7, in a survey, 'do you lose sleep over any global issues?', I can't imagine that I or any of my peers would have truthfully been able to say yes.
I can't really speak to your personal experience with your upbringing or childhood, other than to say that this is odd. I was 7 years old in 1974. That was Vietnam, Watergate, inflation, high unemployment, the threat of nuclear annihilation, creeping gas prices and eventual gas lines, chatter about the "oil running out", and there was even talk of climate change back then (ozone layer depletion) all of which I was aware. I won't say I was tormented by recurring nightmares (though I did have a few vivid ones), but these were all stressors that my peers and I were sensitive to.
Young though you may be, I can't think of any period during my lifetime that wasn't rife with some sort of stressors such as what I had mentioned above. It could have been that your parents did a far better job shielding you from these issues (or at least keeping them in better perspective) than mine did, but judging from other responses on the thread, you are definitely in the minority.
So, not it's not absurd that kids might be worried about the effects of global warming.
posted by psmealey at 1:12 PM on February 25, 2007
I can't really speak to your personal experience with your upbringing or childhood, other than to say that this is odd. I was 7 years old in 1974. That was Vietnam, Watergate, inflation, high unemployment, the threat of nuclear annihilation, creeping gas prices and eventual gas lines, chatter about the "oil running out", and there was even talk of climate change back then (ozone layer depletion) all of which I was aware. I won't say I was tormented by recurring nightmares (though I did have a few vivid ones), but these were all stressors that my peers and I were sensitive to.
Young though you may be, I can't think of any period during my lifetime that wasn't rife with some sort of stressors such as what I had mentioned above. It could have been that your parents did a far better job shielding you from these issues (or at least keeping them in better perspective) than mine did, but judging from other responses on the thread, you are definitely in the minority.
So, not it's not absurd that kids might be worried about the effects of global warming.
posted by psmealey at 1:12 PM on February 25, 2007
This reminds me of some of Rousseau's writing about the nature of human empathy. Basically, he argues that as people become capable of deploying more sophisticated intellectual arguments, they lose some of their genuine concern for others.
I don't think it's particularly unlikely or unreasonable for children to be concerned about global warming, whether it manifests itself in the loss of sleep or otherwise. In the end, by not taking action on the issue, we are putting future generations in peril: innocent generations who are vulnerable to harms that we can impose upon them, but who can do nothing to us.
posted by sindark at 1:21 PM on February 25, 2007
I don't think it's particularly unlikely or unreasonable for children to be concerned about global warming, whether it manifests itself in the loss of sleep or otherwise. In the end, by not taking action on the issue, we are putting future generations in peril: innocent generations who are vulnerable to harms that we can impose upon them, but who can do nothing to us.
posted by sindark at 1:21 PM on February 25, 2007
So, not it's not absurd that kids might be worried about the effects of global warming.
I didn't say children aren't concerned, I said I think children don't lose sleep over global warming. The "survey" claims that children "often lose sleep over [global warming]". As I said, I can imagine being kept awake by the threat of nuclear way. But did you, or anybody, lose sleep over high inflation and Watergate?
"Losing sleep" requires a strong emotional connection to something, not just 'concern', and I can't see children (or most adults) having that kind of emotional reaction to global warming.
posted by matthewr at 1:27 PM on February 25, 2007
I didn't say children aren't concerned, I said I think children don't lose sleep over global warming. The "survey" claims that children "often lose sleep over [global warming]". As I said, I can imagine being kept awake by the threat of nuclear way. But did you, or anybody, lose sleep over high inflation and Watergate?
"Losing sleep" requires a strong emotional connection to something, not just 'concern', and I can't see children (or most adults) having that kind of emotional reaction to global warming.
posted by matthewr at 1:27 PM on February 25, 2007
But did you, or anybody, lose sleep over high inflation and Watergate?
Yes, absolutely.
posted by psmealey at 1:29 PM on February 25, 2007
Yes, absolutely.
posted by psmealey at 1:29 PM on February 25, 2007
Seriously? You, as a child, were physically unable to sleep at night because of inflation and Watergate? I mean literally losing sleep, not just using the phrase as a metaphor for being concerned.
If you're serious, fair enough.
posted by matthewr at 1:36 PM on February 25, 2007
If you're serious, fair enough.
posted by matthewr at 1:36 PM on February 25, 2007
And, seeing as they were flagged up, the Scotsman's comments are frequently amongst the most mental things on the internet. Like the howling of a thousand frustrated nationalists jammed into a tiny room.
See, for example, #1, #5, #7, #15, #18 etc for examples. Jeez. At least most of these loons aren't from Scotland.
posted by imperium at 2:01 PM on February 25, 2007
See, for example, #1, #5, #7, #15, #18 etc for examples. Jeez. At least most of these loons aren't from Scotland.
posted by imperium at 2:01 PM on February 25, 2007
Oh come on. You never had weird dreams as a kid about events of the day? Global warming is a) something the adults seem very concerned about, b) is a somewhat difficult concept to grasp fully for a kid, and c) might involve you and your mom and dad getting hurt or dying because of stuff no one can control. That's a potent nightmare combination right there.
As a kid I had nightmares about Wolfenstein 3D, commercials I saw in Hong Kong about animal cruelty, and the freakin' Gummi Bears theme song. Losing sleep over global warming as a kid sounds perfectly reasonable.
posted by chrominance at 2:02 PM on February 25, 2007
As a kid I had nightmares about Wolfenstein 3D, commercials I saw in Hong Kong about animal cruelty, and the freakin' Gummi Bears theme song. Losing sleep over global warming as a kid sounds perfectly reasonable.
posted by chrominance at 2:02 PM on February 25, 2007
Seriously? You, as a child, were physically unable to sleep at night because of inflation and Watergate?
I'm incredulous at your incredulity. Many of these things directly impacted us in material ways, such as my parents' jobs, their overall moods and outlooks, neighbor kids coming back from Vietnam missing limbs, etc. Beyond that, the images shown on the evening news were graphic and troublesome, but the discussion of huge issues like global warming and an apocalyptic future were enough to put a 7 year old kid's imagination into overdrive, particularly when trying to fall to sleep.
I have to ask: was your own childhood so idyllic that you were troubled by none of those things, or do you simply not remember what it was like?
posted by psmealey at 2:12 PM on February 25, 2007
I'm incredulous at your incredulity. Many of these things directly impacted us in material ways, such as my parents' jobs, their overall moods and outlooks, neighbor kids coming back from Vietnam missing limbs, etc. Beyond that, the images shown on the evening news were graphic and troublesome, but the discussion of huge issues like global warming and an apocalyptic future were enough to put a 7 year old kid's imagination into overdrive, particularly when trying to fall to sleep.
I have to ask: was your own childhood so idyllic that you were troubled by none of those things, or do you simply not remember what it was like?
posted by psmealey at 2:12 PM on February 25, 2007
Despite this giving children nightmares, at least they are being made aware of global warming (whether human caused or not). When I was 7 I hated it when I was given things that were made for kids only, as they were patronizing.
To quote a Scotsman comment "certainly, at that age they should not be losing sleep over global warming" - why not? If it's going to affect the future, surely it's is something worth worrying about? Do these adults think that keeping children in a Disneyland reality is going help them?
It is possible to know about global warming and still party. You just have to party a little more efficiently!
posted by niccolo at 2:13 PM on February 25, 2007
To quote a Scotsman comment "certainly, at that age they should not be losing sleep over global warming" - why not? If it's going to affect the future, surely it's is something worth worrying about? Do these adults think that keeping children in a Disneyland reality is going help them?
It is possible to know about global warming and still party. You just have to party a little more efficiently!
posted by niccolo at 2:13 PM on February 25, 2007
AIDS. Lost sleep over that issue in the early 80's. Probably 7 or 8 when I first started reading those scary, scary articles.
posted by furiousthought at 2:17 PM on February 25, 2007
posted by furiousthought at 2:17 PM on February 25, 2007
You never had weird dreams as a kid about events of the day?
"Weird dreams" isn't "losing sleep". People have weird dreams about all sorts of things. "Losing sleep", to me at least, means being kept awake at night worrying about something.
For example, when I was a child, one of the most important issues on the news most days was Northern Irish terrorism. For all I know, I may have had any number of "weird dreams" about this. I certainly felt concern, on an 'intellectual' level. But I was never physically kept awake by worrying about it, because it never affected me deeply on an emotional level.
posted by matthewr at 2:22 PM on February 25, 2007
"Weird dreams" isn't "losing sleep". People have weird dreams about all sorts of things. "Losing sleep", to me at least, means being kept awake at night worrying about something.
For example, when I was a child, one of the most important issues on the news most days was Northern Irish terrorism. For all I know, I may have had any number of "weird dreams" about this. I certainly felt concern, on an 'intellectual' level. But I was never physically kept awake by worrying about it, because it never affected me deeply on an emotional level.
posted by matthewr at 2:22 PM on February 25, 2007
I remember being terrified of nuclear war in the 70s. I once had a fever dream when I was seven or so that consisted by nuclear bombs being detonated. Still gives me the chills. And my only memory of a trip to Disneyland in California is Three Mile Island and the "meltdown". What about when they tested air raid sirens? That was also pretty freaky.
So I wouldn't doubt children today lose sleep over global warming.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:25 PM on February 25, 2007
So I wouldn't doubt children today lose sleep over global warming.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:25 PM on February 25, 2007
I know an 11 year-old who often cannot sleep because of his fears about global warming.
And, when I was 7, it wasn't Watergate or inflation that made me unable to sleep, it was nightly new broadcasts from Vietnam - body counts with dinner - definite impact on sleep patterns.
When I was, say, 16 or so, I had a lot of friends who had recurrent nightmares about nuclear war.
posted by qldaddy at 2:27 PM on February 25, 2007
And, when I was 7, it wasn't Watergate or inflation that made me unable to sleep, it was nightly new broadcasts from Vietnam - body counts with dinner - definite impact on sleep patterns.
When I was, say, 16 or so, I had a lot of friends who had recurrent nightmares about nuclear war.
posted by qldaddy at 2:27 PM on February 25, 2007
psmealey, of course neighbours returning from Vietnam with terrible injuries, and the risk of your parents losing their jobs, are enough to keep anyone awake at night. And as I said, I can imagine losing sleep over the threat of nuclear war. But worrying about inflation isn't the same thing as worrying about your parents losing their jobs because of it, in the same way that worrying about the rising rate of automobile fatalities isn't the same thing as worrying about dying in a car crash.
If I were a seven year-old child living on the southern coast of the US, having seen the devastation Katrina inflicted, I might well be worried about the threat of hurricanes. But that just isn't the same thing as worrying about global warming itself, even if global warming was responsible for Katrina.
Children worry (in a truly emotional way, as opposed to merely being concerned about something) about things that could potentially affect them and their family and friends in clear, concrete ways in the near future — no child worries about excess population growth, for example. It's easy to imagine a car crash happening the next day, and being kept awake at night by that thought. But how can you, as a child or even an adult, have a vivid enough picture of global warming affecting you and your family in the short term to actually feel the emotion of worry, at such a magnitude to keep you awake at night?
As a young adult, I realise that I have a 1-in-5 chance of dying from heart disease. Of course, anything that has a 20% chance of killing you gives rise to a level of concern, on a purely rational level. But it's not something I worry about, and I doubt any of my peers do either, because it's incredibly unlikely to affect me for several decades yet. Similarly, I really don't think children can be genuinely worried, enough to lose sleep, about global warming, which is unlikely to have a large impact on their lives for several years yet.
posted by matthewr at 3:04 PM on February 25, 2007
If I were a seven year-old child living on the southern coast of the US, having seen the devastation Katrina inflicted, I might well be worried about the threat of hurricanes. But that just isn't the same thing as worrying about global warming itself, even if global warming was responsible for Katrina.
Children worry (in a truly emotional way, as opposed to merely being concerned about something) about things that could potentially affect them and their family and friends in clear, concrete ways in the near future — no child worries about excess population growth, for example. It's easy to imagine a car crash happening the next day, and being kept awake at night by that thought. But how can you, as a child or even an adult, have a vivid enough picture of global warming affecting you and your family in the short term to actually feel the emotion of worry, at such a magnitude to keep you awake at night?
As a young adult, I realise that I have a 1-in-5 chance of dying from heart disease. Of course, anything that has a 20% chance of killing you gives rise to a level of concern, on a purely rational level. But it's not something I worry about, and I doubt any of my peers do either, because it's incredibly unlikely to affect me for several decades yet. Similarly, I really don't think children can be genuinely worried, enough to lose sleep, about global warming, which is unlikely to have a large impact on their lives for several years yet.
posted by matthewr at 3:04 PM on February 25, 2007
Children worry (in a truly emotional way, as opposed to merely being concerned about something) about things that could potentially affect them and their family and friends in clear, concrete ways in the near future
As a teacher, parent and -- get this -- former child, let me say: bullshit. Children have tremendous worries over abstract issues all the time. They are as aware as you are that they live in a large world with many people and potential dangers. They may not read The Economist, but they chew over the ideas of hunger, of catastrophe, of people being forced to work, of animals being hunted to extinction, of, yes, environmental distasters. They get these things and they feel them, often deeply.
I worried and wondered as a boy. It wasn't always specific; sometimes it was just anxiety about all those people. Not: Would disaster happen to me, but how could it all keep working. I guaran-fuckin-tee you that if global warming had been an issue when I was a boy I would have been awake some nights (to preempt you: yes, truly literally) fretting over it.
I think I was normal in this regard. Boys, in particular, can become anxious. They can become anxious over the wasp's nest by the garage; they can fret over the expansion of the universe; they can worry over everything in between.
I knew a five-year-old boy who (literally, truly literally) could not sleep for thinking about the Titanic. He wasn't worried that he would drown; he was up nights thinking of all those people forced to sink in the cold, cold ocean. He worried about their families.
So you didn't worry and still don't; bully for you. I wonder, however, how many people are going to have to tell you that such worries do keep other children awake before you'll stop announcing to us that we're wrong.
posted by argybarg at 3:17 PM on February 25, 2007 [3 favorites]
As a teacher, parent and -- get this -- former child, let me say: bullshit. Children have tremendous worries over abstract issues all the time. They are as aware as you are that they live in a large world with many people and potential dangers. They may not read The Economist, but they chew over the ideas of hunger, of catastrophe, of people being forced to work, of animals being hunted to extinction, of, yes, environmental distasters. They get these things and they feel them, often deeply.
I worried and wondered as a boy. It wasn't always specific; sometimes it was just anxiety about all those people. Not: Would disaster happen to me, but how could it all keep working. I guaran-fuckin-tee you that if global warming had been an issue when I was a boy I would have been awake some nights (to preempt you: yes, truly literally) fretting over it.
I think I was normal in this regard. Boys, in particular, can become anxious. They can become anxious over the wasp's nest by the garage; they can fret over the expansion of the universe; they can worry over everything in between.
I knew a five-year-old boy who (literally, truly literally) could not sleep for thinking about the Titanic. He wasn't worried that he would drown; he was up nights thinking of all those people forced to sink in the cold, cold ocean. He worried about their families.
So you didn't worry and still don't; bully for you. I wonder, however, how many people are going to have to tell you that such worries do keep other children awake before you'll stop announcing to us that we're wrong.
posted by argybarg at 3:17 PM on February 25, 2007 [3 favorites]
I guess this comes down to be wired very differently, matthewr, because about this:
no child worries about excess population growth, for example.
I could not disagree more.
To explain, I probably saw Soylent Green when I was far too young for it (wasn't everyone?). The movie itself didn't trouble me, but its themes, the news about the population explosion at the time (this was a huge story in the 1970s, before they learned that the baby boom was not maintaining), the ZPG movement and all that definitely provided a framework for a young, overactive imagination to run rampant. It's funny that you used that issue as an example, because that one, very particularly did literally keep me up at night as a child.
It's only when I got older that I developed perspective on such an issue. As a child, not so much.
posted by psmealey at 3:19 PM on February 25, 2007
no child worries about excess population growth, for example.
I could not disagree more.
To explain, I probably saw Soylent Green when I was far too young for it (wasn't everyone?). The movie itself didn't trouble me, but its themes, the news about the population explosion at the time (this was a huge story in the 1970s, before they learned that the baby boom was not maintaining), the ZPG movement and all that definitely provided a framework for a young, overactive imagination to run rampant. It's funny that you used that issue as an example, because that one, very particularly did literally keep me up at night as a child.
It's only when I got older that I developed perspective on such an issue. As a child, not so much.
posted by psmealey at 3:19 PM on February 25, 2007
I used to have nightmares about global warming. I saw Waterworld and was completely freaked out by the sequence at the very beginning; the Universal Studios logo was shown, and the shot of the Earth stayed on the screen after the logo words were gone. The ice caps began to melt, and the oceans gradually covered all the land. I had nightmares for at least a year afterwards.
Oddly enough, I was unscarred by Kevin Costner.
posted by honeydew at 3:20 PM on February 25, 2007
Oddly enough, I was unscarred by Kevin Costner.
posted by honeydew at 3:20 PM on February 25, 2007
I was born in 1970. I remember lying awake at night in the 80s worrying about nuclear war. It was a huge and pressing global issue. Possibly it was more threatening to a chile than global warming seems now, because a nuclear war catastrophe is definite, dramatic, and pretty much undisputed. But I have no trouble believing that sensitive children are lying awake thinking about global warming.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 3:49 PM on February 25, 2007
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 3:49 PM on February 25, 2007
Fair enough; based on this thread, evidently some children are genuinely worried enough to literally lose sleep over issues with little concrete, immediate impact on them. I think this is separate from irrational, passing obsessions, like the Titanic thing argybarg mentions. I don't think 'worrying' about a disaster that happened in the past is really 'worry' in the same sense of worrying about global warming. I'm reminded of a quote, which I can't find on the web at the moment, about how one can be kept awake with worry about a relative's illness, yet sleep soundly knowing that an earthquake in China killed thousands. The fact that this is true is, I suppose, a depressing indictment of the human condition.
As a child, I remember being kept awake one night worrying about a close relative who had suddenly been taken to hospital. I remember sweatily tossing and turning, the grip of fear in my stomach, the sudden flu-like shifts between shivering, clammy coldness and burning heat. I can't imagine feeling this magnitude of fear and worry, sufficient to keep me awake for hours, about an issue as inconcrete and distant as global warming — but I can accept that apparently other children do.
posted by matthewr at 3:50 PM on February 25, 2007
As a child, I remember being kept awake one night worrying about a close relative who had suddenly been taken to hospital. I remember sweatily tossing and turning, the grip of fear in my stomach, the sudden flu-like shifts between shivering, clammy coldness and burning heat. I can't imagine feeling this magnitude of fear and worry, sufficient to keep me awake for hours, about an issue as inconcrete and distant as global warming — but I can accept that apparently other children do.
posted by matthewr at 3:50 PM on February 25, 2007
When I was 7 or 8, I used to lie awake at night, worried that I might die. I used to listen to my heartbeat, praying it wouldn't stop
I don't know if this has affected me permanently. *twitch*
Part of my fear, and reason for being worried about dying at age 7, was nuclear war. I had, indeed, read When the Wind Blows, and had seen a documentary on TV about the "nuclear winter" as well. I remember being on a cub scout camp at that age, and at night, noticing a glow on the horizon, and being worried it was a nuclear explosion. It was, of course, a nearby town. When I was a bit older, maybe 11, I used to refuse to sleep with my bedroom door open, because I could see the dull LED of the smoke detector in the hallway, aware, as I was, that they contained radioactive chemicals.
Therefore, I don't find this survey difficult to believe at all. Possibly inaccurate and biased, owing to the difficulty of getting straight answers out of kids this age? Sure. But the fundamental premise is quite reasonable.
posted by Jimbob at 3:52 PM on February 25, 2007
I don't know if this has affected me permanently. *twitch*
Part of my fear, and reason for being worried about dying at age 7, was nuclear war. I had, indeed, read When the Wind Blows, and had seen a documentary on TV about the "nuclear winter" as well. I remember being on a cub scout camp at that age, and at night, noticing a glow on the horizon, and being worried it was a nuclear explosion. It was, of course, a nearby town. When I was a bit older, maybe 11, I used to refuse to sleep with my bedroom door open, because I could see the dull LED of the smoke detector in the hallway, aware, as I was, that they contained radioactive chemicals.
Therefore, I don't find this survey difficult to believe at all. Possibly inaccurate and biased, owing to the difficulty of getting straight answers out of kids this age? Sure. But the fundamental premise is quite reasonable.
posted by Jimbob at 3:52 PM on February 25, 2007
i_am_joe's_spleen, there's a world of difference between lying awake "thinking about" global warming, and being kept awake by anxiety and worry about it.
posted by matthewr at 3:52 PM on February 25, 2007
posted by matthewr at 3:52 PM on February 25, 2007
Children worry (in a truly emotional way, as opposed to merely being concerned about something) about things that could potentially affect them and their family and friends in clear, concrete ways in the near future.
Yeah I third the BS. I used to worry about death. Lie in bed, all night, no sleep, thinking about death. Not immediate death, either. I just knew that one day I'd die and that would be it. This is perhaps the downside of being raised agnostic. No comforts of the promise of heaven.
I think, as a generalisation, that kids worry about the actions of others while adults worry more about their own actions. It makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint. As a kid you look after your own ass. As an adult you worry about the things you're responsible for.
posted by jimmythefish at 3:56 PM on February 25, 2007
Yeah I third the BS. I used to worry about death. Lie in bed, all night, no sleep, thinking about death. Not immediate death, either. I just knew that one day I'd die and that would be it. This is perhaps the downside of being raised agnostic. No comforts of the promise of heaven.
I think, as a generalisation, that kids worry about the actions of others while adults worry more about their own actions. It makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint. As a kid you look after your own ass. As an adult you worry about the things you're responsible for.
posted by jimmythefish at 3:56 PM on February 25, 2007
Add me to the list of kids who lost sleep at the prospect of annihilation. As for "The Greenhouse Effect," as we called global warming in the early 1980s, I could have cared less.
I can see how kids could lose hope over global warming, particularly since the news we hear about it makes it seem even more inevitable than nuclear war was (with "it" even being less of a knowable thing than, say, the likelihood of annihilation.
Derail: How many can name their closest fallout shelter? I used to know, when I was a child. But now I have moved, and I have no idea where the nearest fallout shelter is located.
posted by bugmuncher at 3:56 PM on February 25, 2007
I can see how kids could lose hope over global warming, particularly since the news we hear about it makes it seem even more inevitable than nuclear war was (with "it" even being less of a knowable thing than, say, the likelihood of annihilation.
Derail: How many can name their closest fallout shelter? I used to know, when I was a child. But now I have moved, and I have no idea where the nearest fallout shelter is located.
posted by bugmuncher at 3:56 PM on February 25, 2007
Yeah, I could name the fallout shelter closest to me. Red Dawn had a profound effect on me - I was in grade 4 or 5 I think when it came out and I remember the scene where the paratroopers land on the field and shoot the teacher. Seems hokey now but it felt much more real back then.
posted by jimmythefish at 4:01 PM on February 25, 2007
posted by jimmythefish at 4:01 PM on February 25, 2007
matthewr, I am happy to see you can accept that apparently other children lose sleep over issues as inconcrete and distant as global warming.
At age 6 or 7, I was literally unable to sleep over worries that no matter how well I was doing in school, how much I brushed my teeth, how much I loved and was loved by others, the sun would one day, millions of years in the future, either shrivel and die or engulf the earth in fiery death.
I tried to share this worries with adults, and they were as incredulous as you were at the beginning of the thread. How does it sound to the ears of the average teacher or parent when a kid says "I did bad on the math quiz because I am worried that the sun will destroy the earth"?
posted by Dataphage at 4:07 PM on February 25, 2007
At age 6 or 7, I was literally unable to sleep over worries that no matter how well I was doing in school, how much I brushed my teeth, how much I loved and was loved by others, the sun would one day, millions of years in the future, either shrivel and die or engulf the earth in fiery death.
I tried to share this worries with adults, and they were as incredulous as you were at the beginning of the thread. How does it sound to the ears of the average teacher or parent when a kid says "I did bad on the math quiz because I am worried that the sun will destroy the earth"?
posted by Dataphage at 4:07 PM on February 25, 2007
bugmuncher, presumably you worried about nuclear annihilation because it would affect you and your family. You say that you didn't worry about the Greenhouse Effect. What I'm saying is that, in general, it's easy for children and adults to be concerned on a rational level about global warming, and hard to feel the emotions of fear and worry about it. As a young Westerner with no intention of living in a flood plain, it's very hard to visualise how global warming will concretely affect my life, in 60 years' time. I don't doubt that it will affect my life, and will obviously have profound, concrete effects on people in poor countries at risk of flooding. But I'm saying it's hard to imagine, and conceptualise the effect it'll have, so despite being concerned, I don't have a strong emotional fear of global warming, and I imagine this is the case for many people.
posted by matthewr at 4:11 PM on February 25, 2007
posted by matthewr at 4:11 PM on February 25, 2007
I remember being about 13 during the "fall" of the Soviet Union. I specifically remember a three or so day period during the brief attempt at a coup, and CNN - the only 24 hour news channel of the time - where it was reported no one knew where the soviet nuclear controls were. I was deep into my catholic school days, so I was hard at prayer and light on sleep during that period.
So ,yeah, I think the young are hit even more than the old by stuff like this, possibly because they haven't become cyncial enough yet to dismiss the threat totally.
posted by absalom at 4:52 PM on February 25, 2007
So ,yeah, I think the young are hit even more than the old by stuff like this, possibly because they haven't become cyncial enough yet to dismiss the threat totally.
posted by absalom at 4:52 PM on February 25, 2007
`Nother cold war kid here and you can add me to the list. Yes, nuclear war was a particularly visceral worry – we had plenty of scary footage, and I think every school had at least one or two teachers dedicated to the idea that the best way to prepare the next generation was to scare the hell out of them.
But kids distinctively worry about abstract dangers on a very personal level. It’s one of the things that makes them kids. An adult can say to the TV “yes, I know kids are starving in Africa but I just don’t want to think about that right now” and change the channel. A kid? He or she may very well become consumed by the issue until calmed down by an adult, and then more quietly go on worrying about it. Hell, I wish more adults were like that. The things that go on while a fully knowing citizenry soundly sleeps...
What I'm saying is that, in general, it's easy for children and adults to be concerned on a rational level about global warming, and hard to feel the emotions of fear and worry about it.
That's a straight-up disagreement. Please stop trying to pretend there's some misunderstanding going on here. My take: "It's easy for many adults to be concerned on a rational level about global warming, and hard to feel the emotions of fear and worry about it. Not so for kids, who lack experience and the reassurances of safety that most adults take for granted, and who also take the suffering of others on a personal level not experienced by most adults."
That being said, some kids, just like some parents, are really just waiting for the next episode of Full House. I don’t get the impression that they go together – unconcerned parents having unconcerned children – but certainly both exist. No offence, matthewr, but maybe you were just one of those kids. I think that's a distinct minority, though. It’s funny. I did a fair bit of developmental study in undergrad, and the child development stuff all focused on ability, whereas with teens, adults, and seniors it tended to focus on issues, as if children didn’t have those. I would be very interested to see some work done on child empathy. (partly because I need to reconcile all this with the way they pet the cat)
posted by dreamsign at 7:52 PM on February 25, 2007
But kids distinctively worry about abstract dangers on a very personal level. It’s one of the things that makes them kids. An adult can say to the TV “yes, I know kids are starving in Africa but I just don’t want to think about that right now” and change the channel. A kid? He or she may very well become consumed by the issue until calmed down by an adult, and then more quietly go on worrying about it. Hell, I wish more adults were like that. The things that go on while a fully knowing citizenry soundly sleeps...
What I'm saying is that, in general, it's easy for children and adults to be concerned on a rational level about global warming, and hard to feel the emotions of fear and worry about it.
That's a straight-up disagreement. Please stop trying to pretend there's some misunderstanding going on here. My take: "It's easy for many adults to be concerned on a rational level about global warming, and hard to feel the emotions of fear and worry about it. Not so for kids, who lack experience and the reassurances of safety that most adults take for granted, and who also take the suffering of others on a personal level not experienced by most adults."
That being said, some kids, just like some parents, are really just waiting for the next episode of Full House. I don’t get the impression that they go together – unconcerned parents having unconcerned children – but certainly both exist. No offence, matthewr, but maybe you were just one of those kids. I think that's a distinct minority, though. It’s funny. I did a fair bit of developmental study in undergrad, and the child development stuff all focused on ability, whereas with teens, adults, and seniors it tended to focus on issues, as if children didn’t have those. I would be very interested to see some work done on child empathy. (partly because I need to reconcile all this with the way they pet the cat)
posted by dreamsign at 7:52 PM on February 25, 2007
I remember when I first heard about global warming. I was reading articles in a children's news magazine when I was seven years old (this would be about 1992) and there was a story about how it could cause all sorts of catastrophic things. I don't remember what they were, oddly enough.
I distinctly remember saying a little prayer that I would be dead before things got really bad. Don't think kids don't get freaked out over things like global warming.
I mean, I was losing sleep over all kinds of crazy things. Global warming was a valid thing to stay up worrying about compared to a lot of my fears, because unlike, say, giants (I was afraid of giants stepping on my house) I had read about it in a newspaper. I guess I wasn't a big sleeper.
posted by crinklebat at 9:55 PM on February 25, 2007
I distinctly remember saying a little prayer that I would be dead before things got really bad. Don't think kids don't get freaked out over things like global warming.
I mean, I was losing sleep over all kinds of crazy things. Global warming was a valid thing to stay up worrying about compared to a lot of my fears, because unlike, say, giants (I was afraid of giants stepping on my house) I had read about it in a newspaper. I guess I wasn't a big sleeper.
posted by crinklebat at 9:55 PM on February 25, 2007
I used to worry about death. Lie in bed, all night, no sleep, thinking about death. Not immediate death, either. I just knew that one day I'd die and that would be it. This is perhaps the downside of being raised agnostic. No comforts of the promise of heaven.
Though I got to agnostic on my own at a young age rather than being raised that way, I had the same sleepless nights over the terrifying endless blackness of death.
My experience with that was feeling rather relevant to this discussion too, even if it's a tad more personal than global warming.
posted by flaterik at 4:22 AM on February 26, 2007
Though I got to agnostic on my own at a young age rather than being raised that way, I had the same sleepless nights over the terrifying endless blackness of death.
My experience with that was feeling rather relevant to this discussion too, even if it's a tad more personal than global warming.
posted by flaterik at 4:22 AM on February 26, 2007
heh. i'm reminded of my childhood fears of nuclear annihilation. nothing like an ICBM or two to warm your globes.
posted by quonsar at 4:24 AM on February 26, 2007
posted by quonsar at 4:24 AM on February 26, 2007
Children lose sleep over the boogeyman, too. I guess kids are scared of a lot of non-existent things.
posted by tadellin at 6:13 AM on February 26, 2007
posted by tadellin at 6:13 AM on February 26, 2007
Children don't have the same sense of scale and proportion that an adult has. To a child, everything is immediate and direct, particularly things they see on TV. They take these things personally, and overcoming this is part and parcel of becoming an adult.
Having grown up in Southern California, I remember a particularly nasty season of wildfires. They would show a map of the fires on TV, and they were everywhere - it seemed as if the whole world was about to be consumed by fire. As an adult, I can look at the map, and realize that fires scattered 20 to 30 miles away are no direct threat to me. But children, with their vivid imaginations, aren't prepared to make this evaluation, particularly when the images are as close as the living room.
I was about 13 when Reagan took office, and the fear of nuclear war was palpable. It doesn't surprise me a bit that children today would be just as afraid of global warming, to the point of losing sleep.
posted by malocchio at 9:40 AM on February 26, 2007
Having grown up in Southern California, I remember a particularly nasty season of wildfires. They would show a map of the fires on TV, and they were everywhere - it seemed as if the whole world was about to be consumed by fire. As an adult, I can look at the map, and realize that fires scattered 20 to 30 miles away are no direct threat to me. But children, with their vivid imaginations, aren't prepared to make this evaluation, particularly when the images are as close as the living room.
I was about 13 when Reagan took office, and the fear of nuclear war was palpable. It doesn't surprise me a bit that children today would be just as afraid of global warming, to the point of losing sleep.
posted by malocchio at 9:40 AM on February 26, 2007
I also know an 11 year-old who is very anxious about global warming.
matthewr - Stop being such a literalist. The important discussion is whether or not reporting surrounding global warming is creating undue anxiety in young people. Whether or not they literally "lose sleep" is an asinine debate and might as well be trolling.
posted by Skwirl at 4:27 PM on February 26, 2007
matthewr - Stop being such a literalist. The important discussion is whether or not reporting surrounding global warming is creating undue anxiety in young people. Whether or not they literally "lose sleep" is an asinine debate and might as well be trolling.
posted by Skwirl at 4:27 PM on February 26, 2007
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